newyorknewyork wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:Tonight's game was a reminder about what Frank can be and how stupid threads about 6'1 college players are. When he's making mistakes he gets a short lease and you see those 18 minute outings. Then you have games like tonight where he is simply an impact player on both ends.... 10pts, 10assists, 7rebs, 2 blocks, 1 steal, only 2 TOs and shoots 3-6 and Knicks are +17 with Frank in quite frankly a game they desperately needed to win.

Its all part of the process. If you aim high with a 19 year old prospect you have to accept some maturation process no? Kid's an NBA player. Sometimes he's a really good one. Other times he's pretty bad. Thats how this works.

Frank was a terror tonight. He was everywhere. Seeing these types of games at this stage is great. There will be more downs as well and people posting how "now that we know Frank isnt going to a penetrator" or similar fodder... its NY. Tonight was enjoyable. A glimpse into what this prospect is all about.

Frank needed something to stop him from being complacent. He knew his competition was an aging vet and a PG who shot the ball less than he did. As soon as Frank saw some real competition, what happened? First double-double of his career. His most aggressive play of the season. Same for Baker.

What I heard from some was that Frank didnt need any motivation. Clearly this was not the case.

Reading too much into it. Some of Frank's most effective games have been against the Nets. Maybe it was the competition, but it is more likely that Frank is gaining a comfort level with the league.

Baloney. Frank's first time on the floor yesterday looked like the others as of late, started coughing up the ball, so Hornacek pulled him for Burke. Burke comes in and does the things Frank hasn't been.

First time back on the floor, Frank takes it strong to the rim, like we havent seen yet. Is much more aggressive. Has the best game of his career. No way you can convince me that Burke just happened to be there. First player with a real chance to eat into his minutes.

So one practice against Burke made the difference? The majority of Frank's highlights this season will come from the Nets. Our second game against the Nets was one of his most aggressive games shooting. He's probably more comfortable playing against them then any other team. That will increase as he plays more in the league. Gotta wait and watch more games to see if the "Burke" affect is a thing.

Not about practicing against him. Its watching Burke come in and do the things Frank's teammates and coaches have been strongly encouraging him to do on offense all season. Burke showed the all around game on offense that Frank hasnt been showing.

Frank is a smart kid. He saw the writing on the wall. Wether or not Frank continues to stay motivated to attack, to be less deferrential, is a separate issue. As long as Frank is aggressive, isnt turning the ball over as much as he has lately, I dont predict any big changes in minutes for him. Dont believe he needs a high shooting pct.

On the other hand, if Frank goes back to being overly deferential, turning the ball over. Burke could end up getting more PT at Frank's expense. Hope not, would love for this to be a legit step up in his game.

While you make a good case. I agree with some but not all of it. Frank has had his mins pulled plenty of times during the season for poor play. Wasn't like he was getting big mins regardless of play. When he was playing well he was getting all of the 4th quarter mins. And when he isn't he get pulled early 4th sometimes late 3rd. Burke is also way more of a threat to Jack and Baker then Frank. Jack and Trey can only really line up as PGs. Frank will find mins at Pg, Sg, or Sf if Burke is coming on. As he is the Knicks lotto pick after all and they will put more effort to find mins for him then other players. As long as he is contributing in some capacity.

Frank did pass up on many 3s as defenses sagged off him. He finally took one late in the game off a quick decision pull up jumper. He needs to be confident to take those all game when they give him all that space. Those hard takes to the basket were welcome as well.

Thing I don't get though is if Jeff is pushing him to be more aggressive offensively and is willing to pull mins away from him for not doing so. This issue should have been cleaned up a long time ago. Something just doesn't add up. As if the message wasnt clear. Like why would he hesitate to take those shots if the coach is going to pull his mins for not taking them? What downside was he/is concerned with?

Here are some interesting splits:
In 24 games when Frank plays 20+ minutes he's +3.6
In 17 games when Frank played <19 minutes he's -9.6

In wins (19) Frank is +12
In losses (22) Frank is -11

These #s strongly back up the eye test that when Frank is playing well coach sticks with him. When he's not playing well he gets the hook.

Also when the Knicks win it because Frank really helped them. Then they lose he was dreadful (at least from a +/-). Now ALL players are going to have those types of +/- when it comes to winning and losing. But what jump out about Frank's are how much wider they are than the Knick's margin for victory. When the Knicks win Frank is clearly a factor. Equally when they lose.

Juliano wrote:

fishmike wrote:this is interesting and I think there is some context and correlation here:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/ntilila01/splits/2018

Here are some interesting splits:
In 24 games when Frank plays 20+ minutes he's +3.6
In 17 games when Frank played <19 minutes he's -9.6

In wins (19) Frank is +12
In losses (22) Frank is -11

These #s strongly back up the eye test that when Frank is playing well coach sticks with him. When he's not playing well he gets the hook.

Also when the Knicks win it because Frank really helped them. Then they lose he was dreadful (at least from a +/-). Now ALL players are going to have those types of +/- when it comes to winning and losing. But what jump out about Frank's are how much wider they are than the Knick's margin for victory. When the Knicks win Frank is clearly a factor. Equally when they lose.

I'd rather see it this way : Frank doesn't yet have the legitimity nor the temper to try and be a leader when things go south. At the moment he's just as good as the team, and that's probably going to last his rookie season. When he grows in stature and confidence he'll be able to try and have more of an influence on games, stamp his authority, but right now he's just swiming with the stream.

Pretty much, many times he would look strictly to feed Beasley on an iso. Or try to get the ball to KOQ either on a PNR or high post outlet. Or trying to find McDermott on the wing. It comes off as he is trying to make his veterans happy or lean on them to make plays, which is natural.

The ball never seems to find him again though unless its a pass then handoff back. But how many times have we seen a kick back out swing pass that landed back in Franks hands for a jumper? I don't like that unless he creates his own shot that he isn't gonna get any attempts based of ball movement in general.

GustavBahler wrote:Anyone left who believes that Frank going to the G-League is a bad idea? Frank's D is regressing. He is so anxious to give up the ball as soon as he crosses half court, that Frank passed to KP last night in a full sprint, with a defender right in front of him. He's losing not only PT to Burke, but Baker as well, who isn't turning the ball over as much.

Frank has enough of a body of work this season for him to be thoroughly scouted. The only way to make them throw away those reports, is for Frank to have some kind of a game on offense. G-League will give him the environment to work through the substantial amount of hesitation in his game.

And yet only 2 games ago his confidence was sky high against Brooklyn.

Why would someone change their mind game to game?