fishmike wrote:

codeunknown wrote:

fishmike wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Marv wrote:interesting that some of you would take a pg. you don't think that frank and trey can hold that down going forward? i'm thinking the best front court player available. Give everyone a chance to develop together this year awaiting kp's return and then see what we need from there.

also its the PGs people are looking at. Tiny guys. I totally agree... Trey Burke was a lottery pick a couple years ago. He's 25 now. He dropped 42/12. He's played GREAT. He never turns the ball over. Adding Sexton or Trea Young to that just muddies the water for players who are very small for NBA prospects.

I get you focus on BPA and avoid drafting by need in the NBA, except when all things are equal you take the position of need. We need frontcourt guys.
I like coming back with THjr, Dotson, Burke, Baker, Lee, Mudiay and Frank. That is 7 guys competing for minutes at the 1/2... Lee is old. All the other guys are 25 and under. We are going to add Trea Young who weighs like 155 lbs and has JR Smith's shot selection when he was a high school jr? Not a fan of that but we have drafted well and I like the young guys we have added so lets see.

This process is still too early to lock in on anyone player or strategy. Guys will move up and down a team's draft board before everything is said and done. I agree that we need front court help first, but what happens if the guys who make sense for us like Carter or Mikal go before we pick? I might want to draft down. But if Trae or Sexton kill it in workouts then I can understand it if we pick them. It would make more sense than reaching for a Kevin Knox. If Trey blows up, it might make sense to trade him and go with a younger backcourt. I'd like a young big from this class, but I might not feel pressured to get one this year if Kanter opts in.

disagree on the bold. Perry/Mills have said they are going to focus on longer, more athletic defensive players. There is a type to look at and a type to avoid. Tiny PGs that are smaller and lighter than everyone in the NBA go against that. Also its a position we have a lot of bodies in. Steph Curry's shooting was unprecedented when he was drafted, and he still fell for size/athleticism concerns. Trea Young is nothing like the shooter Curry was in college. I am not sure what he could do in a workout that would have me taking him over others like Carter, Bridges, Knox, SGA, guys with 2-way NBA upside.

While I agree generally with the bold, I think the lines you draw are are too rigid. If Perry and his staff are planning on algorithmically just taking long, athletic players who play defense, I would want him fired on the spot. What they need to be able to do is be the first to identify better predictive variables and excel at contextual analysis.

You've claimed that Trae is nothing like the shooter Steph is/was. I've given you the numbers before and your take seems hyperbolic. Trae shot 86.1% from the line to Steph's 87.6% during year 3 when he finally managed similar volume to Trae. Steph shot 85.5% in year 1. Steph shot 38.7% from 3 in his 3rd year of college, when managing comparable volume to Trae; Trae shot 36%. You can argue Trae is not as good of a shooter but there is still a ton of contextual uncertainty, and "nothing like Steph" is just conjecture. Balance it with the fact that Trae is noticeably quicker than Steph with superior age-matched ball handling and I think your selling him short, so to speak.

I'm also not on board with all the players you're suggesting will end up "2-way." SGA may well be deficient offensively at the NBA level. I don't see enough offensive upside there. Bridges and Carter I like, in that order. Knox may bust on both ends of the floor, and I like him the least, except Sexton who I won't even meaningfully consider. Its hard to predict, but it seems crazy to say that Young is disqualified relative to the above group because he is small. If 2-way upside is the ultimate consideration, why not Lonnie Walker? He's got more upside that any of the guys you've listed.

I have nothing against Walker. Kyrie Thomas is another dark horse that could be the next Donovan Mitchell.

I am selling Trea Young short? I dont think I am. He's a fantastic college player. The red flags and developmental challenges ahead are not worth the gamble. They are monumental starting simply with precedent. What is the model of success for a player like this?

As for comparing Steph and Trea you are comparing the strength of a dozen or so amazing games from Young vs. the worst shooting year Curry had (but otherwise the most successful). Young's college team was not very good, and Young's games were wildly inconsistent. I dont see the match. I see the sell, but I am not buying. That is just me.

You are right about SGA... he may lack the offensive upside. That is for the Knick scouts to work on. But at least SGA doesnt have physical limitations right out of the gate. Trea Young will always be defensive liability. Look at his frame... how much weight do you think he can put on? He's 160-170 right now.

If I was picking very late lottery/mid first round I would be more open to Young. You figure if your 15th pick becomes a good scorer off the bench and backup P fine. Obviously Young has more upside than that.

For me its pretty simple...

but it seems crazy to say that Young is disqualified relative to the above group because he is small

Why? This is the NBA. There are incredibly few small players and fewer successful ones. Its like slow, or fat, or stupid. I mean being small is about as tough an obstacle to overcome.

I dont disagree with you on the guys you mentioned. Knox might bust on both sides. Hopefully Bridges or Carter are available (lukewarm on Carter also). We will see.

Also while I am generally a believer in taking the BPA how do you take a guy like Young when you have Burke in the mix. I mean for that to happen Young has to really establish himself as a clear tier above the other guys available at the same spot. Burke is 25. He gave us 12/5 shooting over 50%. He dropped 42/12 with only 2 TOs. Burke takes amazing care of the ball. Young is a TO machine.

There are a 100 reason why Young is a wasted lottery pick for the Knicks. Some like him. I see much more hype than substance.

The basic argument I'm making goes beyond Young; its that your model is more likely to fail if it uses single variable cutoffs because overall effectiveness relies on a mix of a large enough number of factors which operate non-linearly, and one or more factors can trump the remainder. In this case, I believe you are over-focused on size. As far as previous successful prospects with similar or lesser size, Steph Curry, Tony Parker, Chris Paul, Kemba Walker, and Mike Conley are current examples. Trae is listed at 6' 2" 180 lbs, let's see if that is accurate at the combine.

As far as him being a turnover machine, this is just false. You're not contextualizing the metric to team role, usage rate, or points and assists produced. He has a better assist to turnover ratio in year 1 than Curry had during his 3rd year in college. Also better ast/to than Ben Simmons, Dwayne Wade and Kemba Walker in year 1 in college. Tough to argue that disqualifies him.

There are several intangibles which I don't think you've adequately appraised and may mitigate the size issue as it relates to finishing at the rim. The release time on his jump shot is elite. His counter moves off the dribble are elite. His shooting range is elite. His passing off the dribble is above average. Overall, he can finish plays in a variety of ways and is a threat to do so at any point once he receives the ball.

We seem not to disagree on the majority of other prospects. I'm much higher on both Young and Walker than you, but we'd probably rank the remaining choices about the same.

codeunknown wrote:

fishmike wrote:

codeunknown wrote:

fishmike wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Marv wrote:interesting that some of you would take a pg. you don't think that frank and trey can hold that down going forward? i'm thinking the best front court player available. Give everyone a chance to develop together this year awaiting kp's return and then see what we need from there.

also its the PGs people are looking at. Tiny guys. I totally agree... Trey Burke was a lottery pick a couple years ago. He's 25 now. He dropped 42/12. He's played GREAT. He never turns the ball over. Adding Sexton or Trea Young to that just muddies the water for players who are very small for NBA prospects.

I get you focus on BPA and avoid drafting by need in the NBA, except when all things are equal you take the position of need. We need frontcourt guys.
I like coming back with THjr, Dotson, Burke, Baker, Lee, Mudiay and Frank. That is 7 guys competing for minutes at the 1/2... Lee is old. All the other guys are 25 and under. We are going to add Trea Young who weighs like 155 lbs and has JR Smith's shot selection when he was a high school jr? Not a fan of that but we have drafted well and I like the young guys we have added so lets see.

This process is still too early to lock in on anyone player or strategy. Guys will move up and down a team's draft board before everything is said and done. I agree that we need front court help first, but what happens if the guys who make sense for us like Carter or Mikal go before we pick? I might want to draft down. But if Trae or Sexton kill it in workouts then I can understand it if we pick them. It would make more sense than reaching for a Kevin Knox. If Trey blows up, it might make sense to trade him and go with a younger backcourt. I'd like a young big from this class, but I might not feel pressured to get one this year if Kanter opts in.

disagree on the bold. Perry/Mills have said they are going to focus on longer, more athletic defensive players. There is a type to look at and a type to avoid. Tiny PGs that are smaller and lighter than everyone in the NBA go against that. Also its a position we have a lot of bodies in. Steph Curry's shooting was unprecedented when he was drafted, and he still fell for size/athleticism concerns. Trea Young is nothing like the shooter Curry was in college. I am not sure what he could do in a workout that would have me taking him over others like Carter, Bridges, Knox, SGA, guys with 2-way NBA upside.

While I agree generally with the bold, I think the lines you draw are are too rigid. If Perry and his staff are planning on algorithmically just taking long, athletic players who play defense, I would want him fired on the spot. What they need to be able to do is be the first to identify better predictive variables and excel at contextual analysis.

You've claimed that Trae is nothing like the shooter Steph is/was. I've given you the numbers before and your take seems hyperbolic. Trae shot 86.1% from the line to Steph's 87.6% during year 3 when he finally managed similar volume to Trae. Steph shot 85.5% in year 1. Steph shot 38.7% from 3 in his 3rd year of college, when managing comparable volume to Trae; Trae shot 36%. You can argue Trae is not as good of a shooter but there is still a ton of contextual uncertainty, and "nothing like Steph" is just conjecture. Balance it with the fact that Trae is noticeably quicker than Steph with superior age-matched ball handling and I think your selling him short, so to speak.

I'm also not on board with all the players you're suggesting will end up "2-way." SGA may well be deficient offensively at the NBA level. I don't see enough offensive upside there. Bridges and Carter I like, in that order. Knox may bust on both ends of the floor, and I like him the least, except Sexton who I won't even meaningfully consider. Its hard to predict, but it seems crazy to say that Young is disqualified relative to the above group because he is small. If 2-way upside is the ultimate consideration, why not Lonnie Walker? He's got more upside that any of the guys you've listed.

I have nothing against Walker. Kyrie Thomas is another dark horse that could be the next Donovan Mitchell.

I am selling Trea Young short? I dont think I am. He's a fantastic college player. The red flags and developmental challenges ahead are not worth the gamble. They are monumental starting simply with precedent. What is the model of success for a player like this?

As for comparing Steph and Trea you are comparing the strength of a dozen or so amazing games from Young vs. the worst shooting year Curry had (but otherwise the most successful). Young's college team was not very good, and Young's games were wildly inconsistent. I dont see the match. I see the sell, but I am not buying. That is just me.

You are right about SGA... he may lack the offensive upside. That is for the Knick scouts to work on. But at least SGA doesnt have physical limitations right out of the gate. Trea Young will always be defensive liability. Look at his frame... how much weight do you think he can put on? He's 160-170 right now.

If I was picking very late lottery/mid first round I would be more open to Young. You figure if your 15th pick becomes a good scorer off the bench and backup P fine. Obviously Young has more upside than that.

For me its pretty simple...

but it seems crazy to say that Young is disqualified relative to the above group because he is small

Why? This is the NBA. There are incredibly few small players and fewer successful ones. Its like slow, or fat, or stupid. I mean being small is about as tough an obstacle to overcome.

I dont disagree with you on the guys you mentioned. Knox might bust on both sides. Hopefully Bridges or Carter are available (lukewarm on Carter also). We will see.

Also while I am generally a believer in taking the BPA how do you take a guy like Young when you have Burke in the mix. I mean for that to happen Young has to really establish himself as a clear tier above the other guys available at the same spot. Burke is 25. He gave us 12/5 shooting over 50%. He dropped 42/12 with only 2 TOs. Burke takes amazing care of the ball. Young is a TO machine.

There are a 100 reason why Young is a wasted lottery pick for the Knicks. Some like him. I see much more hype than substance.

The basic argument I'm making goes beyond Young; its that your model is more likely to fail if it uses single variable cutoffs because overall effectiveness relies on a mix of a large enough number of factors which operate non-linearly, and one or more factors can trump the remainder. In this case, I believe you are over-focused on size. As far as previous successful prospects with similar or lesser size, Steph Curry, Tony Parker, Chris Paul, Kemba Walker, and Mike Conley are current examples. Trae is listed at 6' 2" 180 lbs, let's see if that is accurate at the combine.

As far as him being a turnover machine, this is just false. You're not contextualizing the metric to team role, usage rate, or points and assists produced. He has a better assist to turnover ratio in year 1 than Curry had during his 3rd year in college. Also better ast/to than Ben Simmons, Dwayne Wade and Kemba Walker in year 1 in college. Tough to argue that disqualifies him.

There are several intangibles which I don't think you've adequately appraised and may mitigate the size issue as it relates to finishing at the rim. The release time on his jump shot is elite. His counter moves off the dribble are elite. His shooting range is elite. His passing off the dribble is above average. Overall, he can finish plays in a variety of ways and is a threat to do so at any point once he receives the ball.

We seem not to disagree on the majority of other prospects. I'm much higher on both Young and Walker than you, but we'd probably rank the remaining choices about the same.

He's got an elite release sure. Not so much on the shot selection.

The basic argument I'm making goes beyond Young; its that your model is more likely to fail if it uses single variable cutoffs because overall effectiveness relies on a mix of a large enough number of factors which operate non-linearly

That is my take as far as the model goes.

As for the prospect I have seen what you have. Lots of mention of the elite. How about leading the planet in TOs, the mind boggling bad shot selection and he was physically pushed around the 2nd half of the season and doubled and had no answers for either. Im just not a buyer and hope like hell we dont waste a lottery pick on redundant player.

BigDaddyG wrote:

fishmike wrote:Its not a single variable cut off. I want Trey Burke to be the starting PG for the Knicks next year. Did Trea Young have a better college career than Burke? Coming out of college who do you think was the better prospect? Obviously Young is 19 and Burke is 25, so sure... not a fair compare. But I dont see enough of a talent gap between them to draft Young while I have Burke here, and I dont see enough of a talent gap between Young and the other guys figured to go 7-12 that says I gotta take this guy cause he's clearly BPA.

That is my take as far as the model goes.

As for the prospect I have seen what you have. Lots of mention of the elite. How about leading the planet in TOs, the mind boggling bad shot selection and he was physically pushed around the 2nd half of the season and doubled and had no answers for either. Im just not a buyer and hope like hell we dont waste a lottery pick on redundant player.

I'm not high on Trae, but you have to admit that his scouting report reads a lot like Curry's leading up to the draft. You can't completely write Young off at this stage. You have to at least kick the tires. Heck, look at this Curry scouting report from DX that was written just before that year's draft. You have to admit that it does look eerily familiar.

Stephen Curry had little opportunity to be efficient, since he was doing enough shooting for three people at Davidson. Curry’s 31.9 possessions per game is highest usage of any player in the draft this season. Its 50% higher than any other point guard not named Lester Hudson. With that in mind, it is important to take his average .94 PPP with a grain of salt, since it is representative of the load he carried and not the role he will play in the NBA. Curry took 5.4 catch and shoot jumpers per game, and his 1.15 PPP with a hand in his face and 1.33 PPP when left open both land him well above average. In terms of his shooting off the dribble, Curry took 11.6 pulls up jumpers per game, more shots than some players took in total. Projecting him to the next level, Curry is an interesting case. He’s likely to do a lot of his damage in spot up situations in the NBA, but got only 8.9% of his possessions off of spot ups last seasons. He’s not likely to use a lot of one-on-one possessions, but he used 8.6 per game last season (1st). Averaging 8.3 isolations per game (68.3% Left), Curry probably won’t sniff half that number next season. In terms of guard play, his 41% shooting in transition ranks second to last, showing how hard he was pressing to score, but his 1.3 PPP on the pick and roll is excellent—which leaves a lot of room for optimism. He did use 2.6 possessions per game as a jump shooter running off of screens, so he does have a nice base of experience there, but it is notable how far apart Curry’s role in the NCAA was from the role he is likely to play in the NBA. - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Situational-Statistics-This-Years-Point-Guard-Crop-3209/ ©DraftExpress

But I dont see enough of a talent gap between them to draft Young while I have Burke here, and I dont see enough of a talent gap between Young and the other guys figured to go 7-12 that says I gotta take this guy cause he's clearly BPA.

There are plenty of negatives starting with our current roster
Frank 19
Burke 25
Baker 24

Factor in that Burke (former lottery talent and big shot hitter extraordinaire) seems poised for a breakout I dont see the point in kicking the tires when there are other players who fit better short and long term.

Such a small sample size with Young also.

smackeddog wrote:Bulls won the coin toss so will pick 6th, as we have their second rounder, that's good

If things stand pat the way they are now in terms of draft position. I see Bamba and Carter being available at 9.

Suns - Ayton
Memphis - Luca/Begley/Porter
Dallas - Luca/Begley/Porter
Hawks -Luca/Begley/Porter
Magic - Young
Kings - Miles Bridges/Jackson
Bulls - Mikal Bridges/Miles
Cavs - Sexton/Jackson
Knicks - Bamba

Bamba was born in Harlem as well.

NBA Comparison: Rudy Gobert

Strengths: A truly elite physical specimen in terms of length, Mohamed Bamba jumps off the page with his 7'9'' wingspan and 9'6'' standing reach ... This kind of size allowed him to immediately burst on to the NCAA scene as an elite rim protector with the measurables to translate this skill to the NBA ... Blocking 3.7 shots per game during his regular season stint at Texas doesn't even take into account the countless shots he altered or drive attempts he thwarted ... Timing is a part of this, as he only averaged 2.4 fouls per contest at the college level ... His lateral quickness is also very good for a player who measures in at 7 feet tall. This makes him a capable pick and roll defender and someone who roam the entire paint area with little effort ... From a rebounding standpoint, his 10.4 boards per game as a freshman is well above average, and despite his narrow frame he held his own pretty well in the paint against stronger opponents ... While Bamba will always be a lean player, he does have wide shoulders and looks to be able to add muscle ... His 3.2 offensive rebounds per contest is also a very good indicator of timing around the rim ... Mo Bamba's offensive game is probably a little further along than you might initially think ... He is a 67.8% free throw shooter, and has a nice high release and good backspin on his shot ... In an era when long, defensive bigs are often poor free throw shooters, Mo appears to have the foundation to be pretty good at the charity stripe ... His jump shot is also showing signs of life as Bamba shot 28% from the college 3 point line, and showed to be capable from the elbow, while showing decent shot selection ... While his jumper and 3 point shot are not exactly calling cards at this point in his development, I'd still call his foundation as a shooter an strength overall ... He's also a decent ball handler for a big man, and has shown some impressive glimpses of his length and athleticism when putting the ball on the deck and driving past and then dunking on defenders ... He plays with fire, and at the college level when he gets good position and is close to the rim he's extremely tough to stop ... Bamba definitely projects as a defender first at the next level, but he has the pieces in place , with continued development, to be a force on offense as well ... An extremely bright individual, if not for basketball, he had Ivy league grades and credentials entering college ...

Weaknesses: As obvious is as length is, it's also not hard to notice he'll need to continue to add strength to play the paint in the next level ... At the 2017 Hoop Summit, he only weighed in at 216 pounds ... Ideally, you'd like to see Bamba at least around 240 in a year or two, or possibly 250 ... I think those weights are achievable for him judging by his length, and how he's added muscle since high school ... His awareness with his back to the basket and in the paint on offense is a work in progress too ... He'll need to continue to work on his awareness of spacing and cutting players, as well as adjusting to double teams and pressure from guards ... When he's feeling it offensively, he could take over a game at the college level, but he could also be too passive when he'd get bothered ... Restraint is good from a team game perspective, but with his physical tools he should have been more aggressive at times while playing for the Longhorns ... A solid athlete, but much of his wow factor is due to length and not explosiveness or leaping ability ...

Overall: Bamba is truly an elite physical talent with a wingspan and standing reach that don't come along often ... He figures to be a capable rebounder and rim protector at the NBA level from day one. This alone gives him one of the highest floors in this draft, with an extremely high ceiling as well ... His defensive potential paired with growth as a player, added girth, and experience could render him one of the best defensive bigs in the game for years to come ... The fact he has a nice looking jumper and is already starting to get good results from the free throw line and in game situations at such a young age can make him an asset in terms of spacing as well ... If he's able to piece together all the areas of his offensive game, he actually has the potential to be a legit offensive NBA player while still being a defense first guy ...

Bamba/KP - Frank would be defensive pillars with 2 way games.

BigDaddyG wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Bulls won the coin toss so will pick 6th, as we have their second rounder, that's good

If things stand pat the way they are now in terms of draft position. I see Bamba and Carter being available at 9.

Suns - Ayton
Memphis - Luca/Begley/Porter
Dallas - Luca/Begley/Porter
Hawks -Luca/Begley/Porter
Magic - Young
Kings - Miles Bridges/Jackson
Bulls - Mikal Bridges/Miles
Cavs - Sexton/Jackson
Knicks - Bamba

Bamba was born in Harlem as well.

NBA Comparison: Rudy Gobert

Strengths: A truly elite physical specimen in terms of length, Mohamed Bamba jumps off the page with his 7'9'' wingspan and 9'6'' standing reach ... This kind of size allowed him to immediately burst on to the NCAA scene as an elite rim protector with the measurables to translate this skill to the NBA ... Blocking 3.7 shots per game during his regular season stint at Texas doesn't even take into account the countless shots he altered or drive attempts he thwarted ... Timing is a part of this, as he only averaged 2.4 fouls per contest at the college level ... His lateral quickness is also very good for a player who measures in at 7 feet tall. This makes him a capable pick and roll defender and someone who roam the entire paint area with little effort ... From a rebounding standpoint, his 10.4 boards per game as a freshman is well above average, and despite his narrow frame he held his own pretty well in the paint against stronger opponents ... While Bamba will always be a lean player, he does have wide shoulders and looks to be able to add muscle ... His 3.2 offensive rebounds per contest is also a very good indicator of timing around the rim ... Mo Bamba's offensive game is probably a little further along than you might initially think ... He is a 67.8% free throw shooter, and has a nice high release and good backspin on his shot ... In an era when long, defensive bigs are often poor free throw shooters, Mo appears to have the foundation to be pretty good at the charity stripe ... His jump shot is also showing signs of life as Bamba shot 28% from the college 3 point line, and showed to be capable from the elbow, while showing decent shot selection ... While his jumper and 3 point shot are not exactly calling cards at this point in his development, I'd still call his foundation as a shooter an strength overall ... He's also a decent ball handler for a big man, and has shown some impressive glimpses of his length and athleticism when putting the ball on the deck and driving past and then dunking on defenders ... He plays with fire, and at the college level when he gets good position and is close to the rim he's extremely tough to stop ... Bamba definitely projects as a defender first at the next level, but he has the pieces in place , with continued development, to be a force on offense as well ... An extremely bright individual, if not for basketball, he had Ivy league grades and credentials entering college ...

Weaknesses: As obvious is as length is, it's also not hard to notice he'll need to continue to add strength to play the paint in the next level ... At the 2017 Hoop Summit, he only weighed in at 216 pounds ... Ideally, you'd like to see Bamba at least around 240 in a year or two, or possibly 250 ... I think those weights are achievable for him judging by his length, and how he's added muscle since high school ... His awareness with his back to the basket and in the paint on offense is a work in progress too ... He'll need to continue to work on his awareness of spacing and cutting players, as well as adjusting to double teams and pressure from guards ... When he's feeling it offensively, he could take over a game at the college level, but he could also be too passive when he'd get bothered ... Restraint is good from a team game perspective, but with his physical tools he should have been more aggressive at times while playing for the Longhorns ... A solid athlete, but much of his wow factor is due to length and not explosiveness or leaping ability ...

Overall: Bamba is truly an elite physical talent with a wingspan and standing reach that don't come along often ... He figures to be a capable rebounder and rim protector at the NBA level from day one. This alone gives him one of the highest floors in this draft, with an extremely high ceiling as well ... His defensive potential paired with growth as a player, added girth, and experience could render him one of the best defensive bigs in the game for years to come ... The fact he has a nice looking jumper and is already starting to get good results from the free throw line and in game situations at such a young age can make him an asset in terms of spacing as well ... If he's able to piece together all the areas of his offensive game, he actually has the potential to be a legit offensive NBA player while still being a defense first guy ...

Bamba/KP - Frank would be defensive pillars with 2 way games.

Don't see Bamba falling that low or Porter jumping that high. I'd probably take Bamba if he fell to us, but I think Carter is more likely to be in our pick range.

BigDaddyG wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Bulls won the coin toss so will pick 6th, as we have their second rounder, that's good

If things stand pat the way they are now in terms of draft position. I see Bamba and Carter being available at 9.

Suns - Ayton
Memphis - Luca/Begley/Porter
Dallas - Luca/Begley/Porter
Hawks -Luca/Begley/Porter
Magic - Young
Kings - Miles Bridges/Jackson
Bulls - Mikal Bridges/Miles
Cavs - Sexton/Jackson
Knicks - Bamba

Bamba was born in Harlem as well.

NBA Comparison: Rudy Gobert

Strengths: A truly elite physical specimen in terms of length, Mohamed Bamba jumps off the page with his 7'9'' wingspan and 9'6'' standing reach ... This kind of size allowed him to immediately burst on to the NCAA scene as an elite rim protector with the measurables to translate this skill to the NBA ... Blocking 3.7 shots per game during his regular season stint at Texas doesn't even take into account the countless shots he altered or drive attempts he thwarted ... Timing is a part of this, as he only averaged 2.4 fouls per contest at the college level ... His lateral quickness is also very good for a player who measures in at 7 feet tall. This makes him a capable pick and roll defender and someone who roam the entire paint area with little effort ... From a rebounding standpoint, his 10.4 boards per game as a freshman is well above average, and despite his narrow frame he held his own pretty well in the paint against stronger opponents ... While Bamba will always be a lean player, he does have wide shoulders and looks to be able to add muscle ... His 3.2 offensive rebounds per contest is also a very good indicator of timing around the rim ... Mo Bamba's offensive game is probably a little further along than you might initially think ... He is a 67.8% free throw shooter, and has a nice high release and good backspin on his shot ... In an era when long, defensive bigs are often poor free throw shooters, Mo appears to have the foundation to be pretty good at the charity stripe ... His jump shot is also showing signs of life as Bamba shot 28% from the college 3 point line, and showed to be capable from the elbow, while showing decent shot selection ... While his jumper and 3 point shot are not exactly calling cards at this point in his development, I'd still call his foundation as a shooter an strength overall ... He's also a decent ball handler for a big man, and has shown some impressive glimpses of his length and athleticism when putting the ball on the deck and driving past and then dunking on defenders ... He plays with fire, and at the college level when he gets good position and is close to the rim he's extremely tough to stop ... Bamba definitely projects as a defender first at the next level, but he has the pieces in place , with continued development, to be a force on offense as well ... An extremely bright individual, if not for basketball, he had Ivy league grades and credentials entering college ...

Weaknesses: As obvious is as length is, it's also not hard to notice he'll need to continue to add strength to play the paint in the next level ... At the 2017 Hoop Summit, he only weighed in at 216 pounds ... Ideally, you'd like to see Bamba at least around 240 in a year or two, or possibly 250 ... I think those weights are achievable for him judging by his length, and how he's added muscle since high school ... His awareness with his back to the basket and in the paint on offense is a work in progress too ... He'll need to continue to work on his awareness of spacing and cutting players, as well as adjusting to double teams and pressure from guards ... When he's feeling it offensively, he could take over a game at the college level, but he could also be too passive when he'd get bothered ... Restraint is good from a team game perspective, but with his physical tools he should have been more aggressive at times while playing for the Longhorns ... A solid athlete, but much of his wow factor is due to length and not explosiveness or leaping ability ...

Overall: Bamba is truly an elite physical talent with a wingspan and standing reach that don't come along often ... He figures to be a capable rebounder and rim protector at the NBA level from day one. This alone gives him one of the highest floors in this draft, with an extremely high ceiling as well ... His defensive potential paired with growth as a player, added girth, and experience could render him one of the best defensive bigs in the game for years to come ... The fact he has a nice looking jumper and is already starting to get good results from the free throw line and in game situations at such a young age can make him an asset in terms of spacing as well ... If he's able to piece together all the areas of his offensive game, he actually has the potential to be a legit offensive NBA player while still being a defense first guy ...

Bamba/KP - Frank would be defensive pillars with 2 way games.

Don't see Bamba falling that low or Porter jumping that high. I'd probably take Bamba if he fell to us, but I think Carter is more likely to be in our pick range.

Porter wouldn't pass the Kings or Bulls and Jackson could go anywhere from 2-8.

The key is really Young and Sexton as they would push names out. I don't see Magic going in any other direction than Young unless they get the #1.

Ayton, Begley, Luca, Porter, Jackson, Young, Sexton, those are 7 names without naming Bamba, Carter, Mikal, Miles

The teams that need a guy like Bamba. Dallas & Suns won't spend a top 3 pick on him not with Begley available. Cavs will shoot for the offensive stud and personality like Sexton.

Kings with WCS who played well last yr and Ski and Giles will opt for an offensive gifted forward that can come in and produce day one like Porter or Miles Bridges.
Hawks have Shroeder, Prince, Collins as their cornerstone at the moment. They would love either Luca, Porter at PF, Jackson as a compliment to Collins, or Carter as a compliment to Collins.

Anyone like Z-Smith out of T-Tech?

So, according to ESPN's latest mock the possibilities would be:

11. Miles Bridges SF/PF
12. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander PG/SG
13. Robert Williams PF/C
14. Lonnie Walker SG
15. Kevin Knox SF/PF
16. Zhaire Smith SF
17. Aaron Holiday PG
18. Troy Brown SG
19. Mitchell Robinson C

Shai Gilgeous-Alexander had a strong finish towards the end of the season- anyone know much more about him?

How about Zhaire Smith?

smackeddog wrote:So are there any players projected to go 10-20 who we haven't really spoken much about, who could be a Donovan Mitchell esq underrated gem?

So, according to ESPN's latest mock the possibilities would be:

11. Miles Bridges SF/PF
12. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander PG/SG
13. Robert Williams PF/C
14. Lonnie Walker SG
15. Kevin Knox SF/PF
16. Zhaire Smith SF
17. Aaron Holiday PG
18. Troy Brown SG
19. Mitchell Robinson C

Shai Gilgeous-Alexander had a strong finish towards the end of the season- anyone know much more about him?

How about Zhaire Smith?

Anyway where is Kyrie Thomas in that list? He can really slash, attack, beat you off the dribble, has tons of little moves to get himself good looks... IF you are looking this year's Donovan Mitchel I like this kid: Long wingspan!

smackeddog wrote:So are there any players projected to go 10-20 who we haven't really spoken much about, who could be a Donovan Mitchell esq underrated gem?

So, according to ESPN's latest mock the possibilities would be:

11. Miles Bridges SF/PF
12. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander PG/SG
13. Robert Williams PF/C
14. Lonnie Walker SG
15. Kevin Knox SF/PF
16. Zhaire Smith SF
17. Aaron Holiday PG
18. Troy Brown SG
19. Mitchell Robinson C

Shai Gilgeous-Alexander had a strong finish towards the end of the season- anyone know much more about him?

How about Zhaire Smith?

If you want the most Mitchell-esque player, it's absolutely Miles Bridges. Forgotten sophomore in a world of elite freshman prospects who is stuck between 2 positions and lacks a definite NBA role, but has elite athletic ability and 2-way potential. That was Mitchell's profile too. Bridges did everything well at the college level, but isn't talked about on the level as some other guys because he lacks elite size and position and isn't a freshman. Sounds familiar right?