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The 2018 Tank/Draft Thread
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martin
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4/16/2018  11:53 AM
martin wrote:Feel like Carter declaring for draft will have big impact on what type of player Knicks will get if they end up at the likely pick of #9

Don't follow college too much but at #9 I like Mikal and Carter as 2 solid-ish building block types; perhaps not the high potential that we all want in a draft pick but perhaps key cogs that could be starters for a long time. Don't know too much about Carter's defense and what the downside is there

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Nalod
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4/16/2018  12:11 PM
Carter declared to enter draft. Gives us more choice.
Knicks1248: 1. Dolan should be more involved! 2. Why would any knick fan want pick 8, when that spot has a history of producing marginal NBA taken. (He prefers pick 9th instead)
martin
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4/16/2018  12:12 PM
Nalod wrote:Carter declared to enter draft. Gives us more choice.

Awesome!

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awe1028
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4/16/2018  12:14 PM
Jmpasq wrote:
martin wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
Nalod wrote:Cavs let Cedi Ossman run wild for 39 minutes to ensure its loss.
Knicks never had a chance.

Oh we had a chance - we needed to let some g-league scrub/s run just as wild. But no our ****head coach was too smart for that.

other than Frank, the six guys that played over 21 minutes last night for the Knicks all spent significant time in the g league this year. Getting the win sucked but the guys that played for the Knicks just played hard. Who was left on the bench that wasn't injured would you have played?

G-league wasn't the point and I think you know it. He could have found ways to lose and he didn't. Burke should have before replaced by Mudiay. Play Lance Thomas, Baker whoever can't score. Don't keep people out there having career games. I am not up to date on injuries though.

Mudiay had a concussion. Baker has been out for the season since the end of January. Thomas did play some but subbing out Thomas for Hicks has to help the tank most nights.

we played our worst players who wanted to win while other teams knew this would help the organization to slose. Team of selfish individuals vs the team. Nothing new here with the Knicks. This season was a complete waste of time. We are easily the worst team in the NBA without Porzingis and we still will end up picking in the late lottery.If we are lucky we are at least 2 years away from being competitive. If everything goes right in the next 2 years we can be the Bucks

I guess I understand a certain level of disappointment and frustration with the Knicks but you are moving into the pathetic complaining with no apparent point area



Aren't you tired of losing every single year with no end in sight
. I'm tired of watching our front office make pointless signings like Hardaway assuring late lottery finishes. I'm sure we will do it again this year making a pointless move for to many years and 5 million to much a season that will add 3-5 wins and doom us another season in the late lottery. Can we just tank a couple seasons already so maybe just maybe we get another franchise talent. I'd rather do that than hope Emmanuel Mudiay and Michael Beasley become All Stars

Yes it is frustrating to lose. But exactly what you are saying what is more frustrating is losing and having very little to show for it.

Until recently the Knicks did not embrace rebuilding through the draft

Instead just like you said they tried quick fixes by bringing in overpriced washed up free agents and ill advised trades that maintained the losing and screwed up the cap

Even now that they seemed to have embraced a through rebuild they are not doing in right

Look at Philadelphia they did the ebuild right and now they are the best young team in the game

Boston built its team mostly through the draft. It only started bringing in veterans (Kyrie) once it had built the foundation through the draft

Then there is Chicago. The Bulls didn't play with the rebuild. Even after Adam Silver threatened them, they still kept to the plan.

Think about this: with 4 games to play the knicks and Bulls were tied in the standings. Now Chicago has the 6th pick the Knicks have the 9th. Like I said Chicago did not play with the rebuild

One final point about building through the draft: the Knicks have two players that have the chance to be impact players: KP and Frank How were they acquired? The draft

smackeddog
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4/16/2018  1:20 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/16/2018  1:55 PM
reub wrote:
martin wrote:Feel like Carter declaring for draft will have big impact on what type of player Knicks will get if they end up at the likely pick of #9


Yes I agree. There seem to be 9 top players, including Carter. We need him to declare for the draft.

Looking at most mock drafts, it looks like we'll be able to get one of: Sexton, Carter or Mikal Bridges. Nice enough

Nalod
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4/16/2018  1:38 PM
Teams can build trade fodder thru the draft. Boston did a very good job.
Also trading for guys that improve also makes for great fodder. Isiah thomas, Jae Crowder paired with a draft pick got them Kyrie.
Traded down to get Tatum.
Boston has Horford and Haywood via free agency, Kyrie draft, Brown and Tatum draft. Very balanced.
Knicks1248: 1. Dolan should be more involved! 2. Why would any knick fan want pick 8, when that spot has a history of producing marginal NBA taken. (He prefers pick 9th instead)
BigDaddyG
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4/16/2018  2:08 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/16/2018  2:09 PM
martin wrote:
martin wrote:Feel like Carter declaring for draft will have big impact on what type of player Knicks will get if they end up at the likely pick of #9

Don't follow college too much but at #9 I like Mikal and Carter as 2 solid-ish building block types; perhaps not the high potential that we all want in a draft pick but perhaps key cogs that could be starters for a long time. Don't know too much about Carter's defense and what the downside is there

Carter is solid defensively and has one of the better block rates in the nation. His defense shouldn't be much of an issue out the gate if he's a center. He'll need to improve his perimeter D to play the four long term.. His stroke from outside looks good, but he'll need time to consistently get his range out to the NBA 3. Wouldn't be surprised if ended up as one o the top three player in this draft five years down the line. He's not that explosive athletically and could use some conditioning work. I heard on a few podcasts that he is a theater geek and legitimate student.

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
rpknicks
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4/16/2018  2:54 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/16/2018  3:05 PM
smackeddog wrote:
reub wrote:
martin wrote:Feel like Carter declaring for draft will have big impact on what type of player Knicks will get if they end up at the likely pick of #9


Yes I agree. There seem to be 9 top players, including Carter. We need him to declare for the draft.

Looking at most drafts, it looks like we'll be able to get one of: Sexton, Carter or Mikal Bridges. Nice enough

The difference between getting pick 6 and 9 is that it should be an easier decision for the knicks. At 6,they would have been torn between Trae, Mikal bridges, sexton and carter and maybe they would have made the right call, or maybe they would have choked it away. Now it is most likely they just will take whoever remains from that group -and all of those candidates can fit in with our rebuild one way or the other.

But is it the smart thing to do?

With Philly and boston well ahead in terms of both talent and future assets, we have to win these next 2 drafts, handily...which means that we have to crush them AND they have to do no better than average. I think we have showed some forward thinking with the KP and Frank picks, even as we will have to wait through injuries and growing pains to really know for sure. We can expect a high pick next year, again, but for 2018, we have to keep an open mind and not get lured into group think. Take your shot, even if the first thing you'll hear are boos. We have to be the ones to find the next Kawhi or Paul george or even d mitchell.

And after that first pick, the real work begins. Target your guys and then find a way to get them in the boat. Trade, buy, maneuver--rarely will the man you want just fall to you at 37 or wherever we ended up.

Do reasonably well here, add another solid pick next year, get healthy, continue to develop your young core with the right coach, and add the right free agent in 2019...yes that's ALOT of things to get right for a team that usually struggles to get 1 correct , but it is a plan. What else are we going to do? We're knicks fans, we suffer, we endure. We seem to like it. We're called suckers and it's hard not to dispute it.

I happened to be at the garden for the Orlando waxing last month. The concessions were packed with people buying knicks gear before AND after the pathetic loss, where you could literally see the players quit. I paid 30 $ for a burger , fries and a drink. As I walked to the subway for the long cold trip back, knowing i had helped buy dolan another yacht, I still can't deny I enjoyed the experience and I still love the knicks.

Getting back to this draft...I liked Mikal bridges for months and picking him won't be a mistake. But I think a guy like Sexton might be the wild card we need this year. I like his game more in the pros but i really like his fire. He's a hotdog but he's a guy who wants to win and he doesn't back down. We need that **** right now. Too many guys figuring out their personality or how to be more aggressive and that's never going to be his problem.

A few weeks from now, it might be someeone else but that's my guy today.

reub
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4/16/2018  4:19 PM
Even if Carter isn't our choice he gives us more options and might help someone else like Mikal drop to us.
codeunknown
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4/16/2018  5:51 PM
Just don’t take Sexton and we’ll have a decent pick. It should be relatively difficult to make a mess of this draft.

My order is unchanged, likely through the draft, assuming the top 6 are fixed:

1. Trae Young
2. Lonnie Walker
3. Mikal Bridges
4. Wendell Carter

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martin
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4/16/2018  6:07 PM
codeunknown wrote:Just don’t take Sexton and we’ll have a decent pick. It should be relatively difficult to make a mess of this draft.

My order is unchanged, likely through the draft, assuming the top 6 are fixed:

1. Trae Young
2. Lonnie Walker
3. Mikal Bridges
4. Wendell Carter

Wow, Lonnie Walker ahead of both Mikal and Carter. Why?

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Marv
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4/16/2018  7:09 PM
interesting that some of you would take a pg. you don't think that frank and trey can hold that down going forward? i'm thinking the best front court player available. Give everyone a chance to develop together this year awaiting kp's return and then see what we need from there.
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CrushAlot
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4/16/2018  8:01 PM
You playTrey Burke... Wally Szcerbiak
rpknicks
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4/16/2018  8:50 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/16/2018  8:50 PM
Marv wrote:interesting that some of you would take a pg. you don't think that frank and trey can hold that down going forward? i'm thinking the best front court player available. Give everyone a chance to develop together this year awaiting kp's return and then see what we need from there.

I like frank and trey ( less optimistic about mudiay) but guards dominate the league now. Stockpile the top talent when you can. Also some of us got a little buyer's remorse when frank was struggling and guys like mitchell and smith were looking better. A guy like sexton , i think, is in a similar mode to those two and adding him will give us a nice 3 guard, fire and ice rotation between them.

codeunknown
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4/16/2018  11:07 PM
martin wrote:
codeunknown wrote:Just don’t take Sexton and we’ll have a decent pick. It should be relatively difficult to make a mess of this draft.

My order is unchanged, likely through the draft, assuming the top 6 are fixed:

1. Trae Young
2. Lonnie Walker
3. Mikal Bridges
4. Wendell Carter

Wow, Lonnie Walker ahead of both Mikal and Carter. Why?


Big picture: Opportunity for a high potential 2-way player at a value price. The opportunity cost is salary-controlled "role" or "role+" players, which are of course valuable. They do tend to flock around "superstars" at discounts, however, and may be more readily available at mid to late lottery positions in every draft.

Lonnie specific:

1. 98th percentile in isolation scoring. Concordant with this, does not turn the ball over (1.2 per game).
2. High level combination of athleticism, strength, ball handing and wingspan (6-10) at 2 guard.
3. Defensive 3 position versatility.
4. Hint of improved passing; 2.7 ast/game as a secondary ball handler in 2nd half of season.

Negatives:
1. Keeps away from contact at the rim too much.
2. Average shooter at the moment.
3. Average defensive anticipation.

Best case: Dwayne Wade-Brandon Roy love child
Worst Case: Iman Shumpert

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newyorknewyork
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4/17/2018  10:38 AM
CrushAlot wrote:

Kenrich Williams is a name to keep an eye on.

newyorknewyork
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4/17/2018  10:42 AM    LAST EDITED: 4/17/2018  10:44 AM
rpknicks wrote:
Marv wrote:interesting that some of you would take a pg. you don't think that frank and trey can hold that down going forward? i'm thinking the best front court player available. Give everyone a chance to develop together this year awaiting kp's return and then see what we need from there.

I like frank and trey ( less optimistic about mudiay) but guards dominate the league now. Stockpile the top talent when you can. Also some of us got a little buyer's remorse when frank was struggling and guys like mitchell and smith were looking better. A guy like sexton , i think, is in a similar mode to those two and adding him will give us a nice 3 guard, fire and ice rotation between them.

I personally would like another 2-way PG that could ideally start over Burke or split his mins at PG. Would like Frank to play the 2 with the flexibility of playing 1-3.

Burke,Dotson,Williams,?????,Kornet could be molded into a very very good bench on a playoff team in 2 yrs.

But don't know if I would use the #9 on the pgs available at that spot. Wendal Carter ideally makes a lot of sense. Or a trade down to nab Hutchinson & Brunson.

smackeddog
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4/17/2018  12:40 PM
Marv wrote:interesting that some of you would take a pg. you don't think that frank and trey can hold that down going forward? i'm thinking the best front court player available. Give everyone a chance to develop together this year awaiting kp's return and then see what we need from there.

We need talent at every position- I'd say our only legit starter is KP, and I'm not sure if he's a PF or C, or if he even wants to stick around. Therefore, you go for best talent available. I like Frank and Trey, heck I'm even willing to give Mudiay another chance if he works hard in the offseason, but I can't honestly say any of those will definitely be starter calibre further down the line. If the best player available is a pg, then thats who I'm picking

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4/17/2018  8:22 PM
smackeddog wrote:
Marv wrote:interesting that some of you would take a pg. you don't think that frank and trey can hold that down going forward? i'm thinking the best front court player available. Give everyone a chance to develop together this year awaiting kp's return and then see what we need from there.

We need talent at every position- I'd say our only legit starter is KP, and I'm not sure if he's a PF or C, or if he even wants to stick around. Therefore, you go for best talent available. I like Frank and Trey, heck I'm even willing to give Mudiay another chance if he works hard in the offseason, but I can't honestly say any of those will definitely be starter calibre further down the line. If the best player available is a pg, then thats who I'm picking

+1,0000...We are at the stage of our rebuild where we need talent and assets...KP is arguably the only legit starter we have on the roster. A starter that we can envision on a contending team down the road....So why would focus on SF's only, when we need starters for all positions?

Marv
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4/17/2018  9:52 PM
Uptown wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
Marv wrote:interesting that some of you would take a pg. you don't think that frank and trey can hold that down going forward? i'm thinking the best front court player available. Give everyone a chance to develop together this year awaiting kp's return and then see what we need from there.

We need talent at every position- I'd say our only legit starter is KP, and I'm not sure if he's a PF or C, or if he even wants to stick around. Therefore, you go for best talent available. I like Frank and Trey, heck I'm even willing to give Mudiay another chance if he works hard in the offseason, but I can't honestly say any of those will definitely be starter calibre further down the line. If the best player available is a pg, then thats who I'm picking

+1,0000...We are at the stage of our rebuild where we need talent and assets...KP is arguably the only legit starter we have on the roster. A starter that we can envision on a contending team down the road....So why would focus on SF's only, when we need starters for all positions?

Where does thj fit in this? He seemed like an extremely viable starter when playing the 2nd offensive option to kp duting a strong early showing? And why bother picking up a reclamation project like burke and supporting his rebirth in the gl and resurgence in the league if you're going to then dismiss it and seek yet another pg in addition to him and frank? Do we believe we're going to rebuild for another 5 years? Is that what we want? Right now burke, dotson, thj and frank look like a young core u'd continue to devote pt to in the backcourt. That leaves a very unsettled frontcourt. Beasley to me is a throwaway bench scorer who will always be appropriately on the cheap. Kanter is a luxury but not at that price. Kornet and hicks are feel-good g-league story lines.

Are sexton and young worth neglecting our dire frount court needs? I say no, not with the emergence of burke to balance the abilities of frank. And with the decimated state of our frontcourt.

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The 2018 Tank/Draft Thread

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