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Second wind: Porzingis refreshed after off day
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TPercy
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1/5/2018  10:58 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
TPercy wrote:Welp This is what happens when you only have two NBA legit starters in the backcourt and one of them is injured and if we are being honest with ourselves Frank isn't even an NBA player right now....not by a long shot.

Wouldnt go that far, but the almost complete lack of offense from Frank and Baker is really hurting us.


Dude Frank plays good D but it is nowhere near enough for us to compensate for his dreadful offense.
He turns the ball over a lot
His handle is really sloppy
he can't make a layup to save his life
he can't shoot
He has poor shot selection
He can't create his own shot
His confidence in his game is inconsistent at best


None of this is to say that he can't be a pretty decent player in the future; in fact, I think he will, but we are kidding ourselves if we thinking Frank is an NBA player right now.

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HofstraBBall
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1/5/2018  10:58 PM
TPercy wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:This games on KP - I don't care what excuses you guys make for him. He needs to get over being pushed around and mind fukked by every team.

Jeff needs to make better plays for him as well. There is no reason why we should be ISOing on every possesion down the stretch.

Beasley had no problem with it. But ok sure, more passing. Does that excuse his bad play lately?

fishmike Posts: 48006 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 7/19/2002 Member: #298 USA 6/23/2016 12:35 PM fishmike worte" The dream? Would be Pg Rose SG GPII SF Durant PF Melo C Noah Bench: KP, Langston, KOQ, Clyde Frazier
TPercy
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1/5/2018  10:58 PM
meloshouldgo wrote:
TPercy wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:This games on KP - I don't care what excuses you guys make for him. He needs to get over being pushed around and mind fukked by every team.

Jeff needs to make better plays for him as well. There is no reason why we should be ISOing on every possesion down the stretch.

There's poor coaching and equally poor execution right now.


I agree. Just a major clusterfeck
The Future is Bright!
dwiley20
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1/5/2018  11:00 PM
meloshouldgo wrote:This games on KP - I don't care what excuses you guys make for him. He needs to get over being pushed around and mind fukked by every team.

totally agree

TPercy
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1/5/2018  11:01 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
TPercy wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:This games on KP - I don't care what excuses you guys make for him. He needs to get over being pushed around and mind fukked by every team.

Jeff needs to make better plays for him as well. There is no reason why we should be ISOing on every possesion down the stretch.

Beasley had no problem with it. But ok sure, more passing. Does that excuse his bad play lately?

Whether or not he was making his shots on ISO possessions is irrelevent. It is an inefficient style of play that dosen't win games if if that is focal point of the offense which is exactly what the Knicks did today. Utterly awful coaching and horrible game play especially from KP who I expect more from.

The Future is Bright!
CrushAlot
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1/5/2018  11:01 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
TPercy wrote:Welp This is what happens when you only have two NBA legit starters in the backcourt and one of them is injured and if we are being honest with ourselves Frank isn't even an NBA player right now....not by a long shot.

Wouldnt go that far, but the almost complete lack of offense from Frank and Baker is really hurting us.


Yeah. I think the deficit on offense is too great to have Jack and Frank on the court together especially late in the fourth quarter.
You playTrey Burke... Wally Szcerbiak
HofstraBBall
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1/5/2018  11:02 PM
nyknickzingis wrote:Frustrating watching this team not able to get the ball to a mismatch when Porzingis has it. The vets - Jack, Lee are showing me a consistent pattern in their play. They can't create a shot for a teammate unless he is wide open. Neither is getting KP the ball when he has a good position. Frank makes mistakes but makes the right pass and i like his decision making.

The problem with this team the time line is all screwed

CLee Beasley Thomas OQuinn Kanter are all ready to play and win now.
KP and Frank need two years
Frank in particular - we need a point guard so bad is crazy

Stop transferring. KP sucked today. As leader this loss is in him. But do agree, KP has to get better at creating for himself and more importantly setting up others. He has tunnel vision right now.

fishmike Posts: 48006 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 7/19/2002 Member: #298 USA 6/23/2016 12:35 PM fishmike worte" The dream? Would be Pg Rose SG GPII SF Durant PF Melo C Noah Bench: KP, Langston, KOQ, Clyde Frazier
nixluva
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1/5/2018  11:02 PM
TPercy wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
TPercy wrote:Welp This is what happens when you only have two NBA legit starters in the backcourt and one of them is injured and if we are being honest with ourselves Frank isn't even an NBA player right now....not by a long shot.

Wouldnt go that far, but the almost complete lack of offense from Frank and Baker is really hurting us.


Dude Frank plays good D but it is nowhere near enough for us to compensate for his dreadful offense.
He turns the ball over a lot
His handle is really sloppy
he can't make a layup to save his life
he can't shoot
He has poor shot selection
He can't create his own shot
His confidence in his game is inconsistent at best


None of this is to say that he can't be a pretty decent player in the future; in fact, I think he will, but we are kidding ourselves if we thinking Frank is an NBA player right now.

Come on man. Stop with the BS!!! Frank is an NBA talent but he's 19 and it's not his fault that we don't have a better player in front of him. Watching him many of the turnovers are due to teams knowing he likes to bounce pass off Screens. He's successful WAY more than he's turning it over even if they don't always score off his passes. Frank is the LEAST of our issues. They will most likely do something about this soon. The Guard issue is highlighted more without THJ.

meloshouldgo
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1/5/2018  11:04 PM
nixluva wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
TPercy wrote:Welp This is what happens when you only have two NBA legit starters in the backcourt and one of them is injured and if we are being honest with ourselves Frank isn't even an NBA player right now....not by a long shot.

Wouldnt go that far, but the almost complete lack of offense from Frank and Baker is really hurting us.

Really? What about the lack of offense from the franchise player? It's the fourth and seventh options on offense that's hurting us?

I just think this idea that now all of a sudden KP has to be Melo in this offense is the biggest problem. THey're going ISO literally every time down. KP was never that guy and this season they've been forcing that over and over.

Just get him moving a little so he can get a Pin Down screen then Catch and Shoot look or have him cutting baseline more often so he can get the ball right under the basket rather than out at the Elbow and further. I can think of a LOT of ways to use KP besides how they've been using him.

We don't seem to have any plan on offense. We are too slow to play a free flowing fast paced game. We are also not skilled enough to play half court grind out offense. Even on fast breaks everyone but Lee looks like deer in the headlights. We don't shoot or make any threes. Our franchise player starts games shooting 3 of 9. If it wasn't was the "role players" that some of these guys dump on every day - Beasly, Kanter and Lee we would get blown out every game. All our offense is iso from those guys.

The only things that trickle down are wages and horse shit
TPercy
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1/5/2018  11:10 PM
nixluva wrote:
TPercy wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
TPercy wrote:Welp This is what happens when you only have two NBA legit starters in the backcourt and one of them is injured and if we are being honest with ourselves Frank isn't even an NBA player right now....not by a long shot.

Wouldnt go that far, but the almost complete lack of offense from Frank and Baker is really hurting us.


Dude Frank plays good D but it is nowhere near enough for us to compensate for his dreadful offense.
He turns the ball over a lot
His handle is really sloppy
he can't make a layup to save his life
he can't shoot
He has poor shot selection
He can't create his own shot
His confidence in his game is inconsistent at best


None of this is to say that he can't be a pretty decent player in the future; in fact, I think he will, but we are kidding ourselves if we thinking Frank is an NBA player right now.

Come on man. Stop with the BS!!! Frank is an NBA talent but he's 19 and it's not his fault that we don't have a better player in front of him. Watching him many of the turnovers are due to teams knowing he likes to bounce pass off Screens. He's successful WAY more than he's turning it over even if they don't always score off his passes. Frank is the LEAST of our issues. They will most likely do something about this soon. The Guard issue is highlighted more without THJ.


Having NBA Talent doesn't make you an NBA player. NBA level performances make you an NBA player and Frank hasn't been producing that. That doesn't mean that he won't show it in the future but nix you are having a laugh if you think Frank's performances are to the standards of an NBA point guard. We need a point guard so badly it isn't even funny and deep down nix you know it.
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HofstraBBall
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1/5/2018  11:11 PM
TPercy wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
TPercy wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:This games on KP - I don't care what excuses you guys make for him. He needs to get over being pushed around and mind fukked by every team.

Jeff needs to make better plays for him as well. There is no reason why we should be ISOing on every possesion down the stretch.

Beasley had no problem with it. But ok sure, more passing. Does that excuse his bad play lately?

Whether or not he was making his shots on ISO possessions is irrelevent. It is an inefficient style of play that dosen't win games if if that is focal point of the offense which is exactly what the Knicks did today. Utterly awful coaching and horrible game play especially from KP who I expect more from.

Disagree, making shots is 90% of perception. No one had a problem with his shot selection or JH's play calling when he had his 30 plus streak going. No one complains about Steph fall away 30 footers when he is makimg those. KP is just not making shots. Thing I don't get is why he doesn't set others up or hit the boards when he is not on. He has to learn that a leader has to contribute in whatever way possible. If Beas did not get hirt, we would have won the game if we ran the same plays for him.

fishmike Posts: 48006 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 7/19/2002 Member: #298 USA 6/23/2016 12:35 PM fishmike worte" The dream? Would be Pg Rose SG GPII SF Durant PF Melo C Noah Bench: KP, Langston, KOQ, Clyde Frazier
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1/5/2018  11:15 PM    LAST EDITED: 1/5/2018  11:18 PM
Kanter and Jack are our tank superstars. If you watch nearly every point the opposition starters scores is on them. Love Kanter but it’s true he’s fools gold. He gets our whole team out of place defensively trying to cover his team defense deficiency. Jack does just enough to keep playing him I guess, sort of runs the offense but again, always out of place on defense. It’s all part of the rebuild I have to believe. Frank is coming along fabulously, way ahead of the curve. KP is likely wearing down a bit but when the rest of the team is failing offensively it’s very easy to focus the defense on him and break him down. THJ is looking healthier each game he’s dancing on the sideline.

I would LOVE to see Noah start and Kanter come in to bruised the backups. Also 2nd units won’t be able to abuse his weak team D.

TPercy
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1/5/2018  11:16 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
TPercy wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
TPercy wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:This games on KP - I don't care what excuses you guys make for him. He needs to get over being pushed around and mind fukked by every team.

Jeff needs to make better plays for him as well. There is no reason why we should be ISOing on every possesion down the stretch.

Beasley had no problem with it. But ok sure, more passing. Does that excuse his bad play lately?

Whether or not he was making his shots on ISO possessions is irrelevent. It is an inefficient style of play that dosen't win games if if that is focal point of the offense which is exactly what the Knicks did today. Utterly awful coaching and horrible game play especially from KP who I expect more from.

Disagree, making shots is 90% of perception. No one had a problem with his shot selection or JH's play calling when he had his 30 plus streak going. No one complains about Steph fall away 30 footers when he is makimg those. KP is just not making shots. Thing I don't get is why he doesn't set others up or hit the boards when he is not on. He has to learn that a leader has to contribute in whatever way possible. If Beas did not get hirt, we would have won the game if we ran the same plays for him.


KP's shots at that time weren't coming on just on isolation, but also on other plays like PnR, cuts to the basket, and just being open for a 3. Look at all the most effective scorers and ask yourself whether or not all their shots come from just ISO possesions on the bloody midpost. I'm not saying KP played well by any means. He was terrible both mentally and physically and didn't fight enough but lets not pretend like the our awful gameplay had nothing to do with it.
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HofstraBBall
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1/5/2018  11:18 PM
TPercy wrote:
nixluva wrote:
TPercy wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
TPercy wrote:Welp This is what happens when you only have two NBA legit starters in the backcourt and one of them is injured and if we are being honest with ourselves Frank isn't even an NBA player right now....not by a long shot.

Wouldnt go that far, but the almost complete lack of offense from Frank and Baker is really hurting us.


Dude Frank plays good D but it is nowhere near enough for us to compensate for his dreadful offense.
He turns the ball over a lot
His handle is really sloppy
he can't make a layup to save his life
he can't shoot
He has poor shot selection
He can't create his own shot
His confidence in his game is inconsistent at best


None of this is to say that he can't be a pretty decent player in the future; in fact, I think he will, but we are kidding ourselves if we thinking Frank is an NBA player right now.

Come on man. Stop with the BS!!! Frank is an NBA talent but he's 19 and it's not his fault that we don't have a better player in front of him. Watching him many of the turnovers are due to teams knowing he likes to bounce pass off Screens. He's successful WAY more than he's turning it over even if they don't always score off his passes. Frank is the LEAST of our issues. They will most likely do something about this soon. The Guard issue is highlighted more without THJ.


Having NBA Talent doesn't make you an NBA player. NBA level performances make you an NBA player and Frank hasn't been producing that. That doesn't mean that he won't show it in the future but nix you are having a laugh if you think Frank's performances are to the standards of an NBA point guard. We need a point guard so badly it isn't even funny and deep down nix you know it.

Agree. So many on here keep saying he is only 19 as an excuse yet get mad when someone suggests he should be on the bench until he improves his offense. Isn't that what coaches did with rookies back in the day? Specially 19 year olds? Frank at best should be coming in for short stints. Now if the Knicks plan is to lose and get him more experience, that's a different story.

fishmike Posts: 48006 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 7/19/2002 Member: #298 USA 6/23/2016 12:35 PM fishmike worte" The dream? Would be Pg Rose SG GPII SF Durant PF Melo C Noah Bench: KP, Langston, KOQ, Clyde Frazier
HofstraBBall
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1/5/2018  11:26 PM
TPercy wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
TPercy wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
TPercy wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:This games on KP - I don't care what excuses you guys make for him. He needs to get over being pushed around and mind fukked by every team.

Jeff needs to make better plays for him as well. There is no reason why we should be ISOing on every possesion down the stretch.

Beasley had no problem with it. But ok sure, more passing. Does that excuse his bad play lately?

Whether or not he was making his shots on ISO possessions is irrelevent. It is an inefficient style of play that dosen't win games if if that is focal point of the offense which is exactly what the Knicks did today. Utterly awful coaching and horrible game play especially from KP who I expect more from.

Disagree, making shots is 90% of perception. No one had a problem with his shot selection or JH's play calling when he had his 30 plus streak going. No one complains about Steph fall away 30 footers when he is makimg those. KP is just not making shots. Thing I don't get is why he doesn't set others up or hit the boards when he is not on. He has to learn that a leader has to contribute in whatever way possible. If Beas did not get hirt, we would have won the game if we ran the same plays for him.


KP's shots at that time weren't coming on just on isolation, but also on other plays like PnR, cuts to the basket, and just being open for a 3. Look at all the most effective scorers and ask yourself whether or not all their shots come from just ISO possesions on the bloody midpost. I'm not saying KP played well by any means. He was terrible both mentally and physically and didn't fight enough but lets not pretend like the our awful gameplay had nothing to do with it.

Understand what your saying. I Don't think we saw much of KP pounding the rock, backing down his man while the rest of the team got out of his way. Did he post up...sure. At 7"3 he should. But ok, maybe they ran some more curls for him early on. But again, if he hits his shots tonight then no one is saying a word about the offense.

fishmike Posts: 48006 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 7/19/2002 Member: #298 USA 6/23/2016 12:35 PM fishmike worte" The dream? Would be Pg Rose SG GPII SF Durant PF Melo C Noah Bench: KP, Langston, KOQ, Clyde Frazier
TPercy
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1/5/2018  11:29 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
TPercy wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
TPercy wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
TPercy wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:This games on KP - I don't care what excuses you guys make for him. He needs to get over being pushed around and mind fukked by every team.

Jeff needs to make better plays for him as well. There is no reason why we should be ISOing on every possesion down the stretch.

Beasley had no problem with it. But ok sure, more passing. Does that excuse his bad play lately?

Whether or not he was making his shots on ISO possessions is irrelevent. It is an inefficient style of play that dosen't win games if if that is focal point of the offense which is exactly what the Knicks did today. Utterly awful coaching and horrible game play especially from KP who I expect more from.

Disagree, making shots is 90% of perception. No one had a problem with his shot selection or JH's play calling when he had his 30 plus streak going. No one complains about Steph fall away 30 footers when he is makimg those. KP is just not making shots. Thing I don't get is why he doesn't set others up or hit the boards when he is not on. He has to learn that a leader has to contribute in whatever way possible. If Beas did not get hirt, we would have won the game if we ran the same plays for him.


KP's shots at that time weren't coming on just on isolation, but also on other plays like PnR, cuts to the basket, and just being open for a 3. Look at all the most effective scorers and ask yourself whether or not all their shots come from just ISO possesions on the bloody midpost. I'm not saying KP played well by any means. He was terrible both mentally and physically and didn't fight enough but lets not pretend like the our awful gameplay had nothing to do with it.

Understand what your saying. I Don't think we saw much of KP pounding the rock, backing down his man while the rest of the team got out of his way. Did he post up...sure. At 7"3 he should. But ok, maybe they ran some more curls for him early on. But again, if he hits his shots tonight then no one is saying a word about the offense.

You are right but as I said pure ISO ball as a method of scoring isn't efficient or sustainable in todays game. KP's performance in some respects is proof of that.

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HofstraBBall
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1/5/2018  11:31 PM
TPercy wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
TPercy wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
TPercy wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
TPercy wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:This games on KP - I don't care what excuses you guys make for him. He needs to get over being pushed around and mind fukked by every team.

Jeff needs to make better plays for him as well. There is no reason why we should be ISOing on every possesion down the stretch.

Beasley had no problem with it. But ok sure, more passing. Does that excuse his bad play lately?

Whether or not he was making his shots on ISO possessions is irrelevent. It is an inefficient style of play that dosen't win games if if that is focal point of the offense which is exactly what the Knicks did today. Utterly awful coaching and horrible game play especially from KP who I expect more from.

Disagree, making shots is 90% of perception. No one had a problem with his shot selection or JH's play calling when he had his 30 plus streak going. No one complains about Steph fall away 30 footers when he is makimg those. KP is just not making shots. Thing I don't get is why he doesn't set others up or hit the boards when he is not on. He has to learn that a leader has to contribute in whatever way possible. If Beas did not get hirt, we would have won the game if we ran the same plays for him.


KP's shots at that time weren't coming on just on isolation, but also on other plays like PnR, cuts to the basket, and just being open for a 3. Look at all the most effective scorers and ask yourself whether or not all their shots come from just ISO possesions on the bloody midpost. I'm not saying KP played well by any means. He was terrible both mentally and physically and didn't fight enough but lets not pretend like the our awful gameplay had nothing to do with it.

Understand what your saying. I Don't think we saw much of KP pounding the rock, backing down his man while the rest of the team got out of his way. Did he post up...sure. At 7"3 he should. But ok, maybe they ran some more curls for him early on. But again, if he hits his shots tonight then no one is saying a word about the offense.

You are right but as I said pure ISO ball as a method of scoring isn't efficient or sustainable in todays game. KP's performance in some respects is proof of that.

Would agree. Lets hope he and they turn it around.

fishmike Posts: 48006 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 7/19/2002 Member: #298 USA 6/23/2016 12:35 PM fishmike worte" The dream? Would be Pg Rose SG GPII SF Durant PF Melo C Noah Bench: KP, Langston, KOQ, Clyde Frazier
TPercy
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1/5/2018  11:32 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
TPercy wrote:
nixluva wrote:
TPercy wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
TPercy wrote:Welp This is what happens when you only have two NBA legit starters in the backcourt and one of them is injured and if we are being honest with ourselves Frank isn't even an NBA player right now....not by a long shot.

Wouldnt go that far, but the almost complete lack of offense from Frank and Baker is really hurting us.


Dude Frank plays good D but it is nowhere near enough for us to compensate for his dreadful offense.
He turns the ball over a lot
His handle is really sloppy
he can't make a layup to save his life
he can't shoot
He has poor shot selection
He can't create his own shot
His confidence in his game is inconsistent at best


None of this is to say that he can't be a pretty decent player in the future; in fact, I think he will, but we are kidding ourselves if we thinking Frank is an NBA player right now.

Come on man. Stop with the BS!!! Frank is an NBA talent but he's 19 and it's not his fault that we don't have a better player in front of him. Watching him many of the turnovers are due to teams knowing he likes to bounce pass off Screens. He's successful WAY more than he's turning it over even if they don't always score off his passes. Frank is the LEAST of our issues. They will most likely do something about this soon. The Guard issue is highlighted more without THJ.


Having NBA Talent doesn't make you an NBA player. NBA level performances make you an NBA player and Frank hasn't been producing that. That doesn't mean that he won't show it in the future but nix you are having a laugh if you think Frank's performances are to the standards of an NBA point guard. We need a point guard so badly it isn't even funny and deep down nix you know it.

Agree. So many on here keep saying he is only 19 as an excuse yet get mad when someone suggests he should be on the bench until he improves his offense. Isn't that what coaches did with rookies back in the day? Specially 19 year olds? Frank at best should be coming in for short stints. Now if the Knicks plan is to lose and get him more experience, that's a different story.

I hear ya. He needs time to grow but without a legit PG starter Frank dosen't have much time.

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1/5/2018  11:41 PM
Knicks lost because with 4 centers on this team and a 7-foot-3 forward they allowed Miami multiple offense rebounds.

that and Miami was great from the FT throw line.

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1/6/2018  12:26 AM
TPercy wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
TPercy wrote:
nixluva wrote:
TPercy wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
TPercy wrote:Welp This is what happens when you only have two NBA legit starters in the backcourt and one of them is injured and if we are being honest with ourselves Frank isn't even an NBA player right now....not by a long shot.

Wouldnt go that far, but the almost complete lack of offense from Frank and Baker is really hurting us.


Dude Frank plays good D but it is nowhere near enough for us to compensate for his dreadful offense.
He turns the ball over a lot
His handle is really sloppy
he can't make a layup to save his life
he can't shoot
He has poor shot selection
He can't create his own shot
His confidence in his game is inconsistent at best


None of this is to say that he can't be a pretty decent player in the future; in fact, I think he will, but we are kidding ourselves if we thinking Frank is an NBA player right now.

Come on man. Stop with the BS!!! Frank is an NBA talent but he's 19 and it's not his fault that we don't have a better player in front of him. Watching him many of the turnovers are due to teams knowing he likes to bounce pass off Screens. He's successful WAY more than he's turning it over even if they don't always score off his passes. Frank is the LEAST of our issues. They will most likely do something about this soon. The Guard issue is highlighted more without THJ.


Having NBA Talent doesn't make you an NBA player. NBA level performances make you an NBA player and Frank hasn't been producing that. That doesn't mean that he won't show it in the future but nix you are having a laugh if you think Frank's performances are to the standards of an NBA point guard. We need a point guard so badly it isn't even funny and deep down nix you know it.

Agree. So many on here keep saying he is only 19 as an excuse yet get mad when someone suggests he should be on the bench until he improves his offense. Isn't that what coaches did with rookies back in the day? Specially 19 year olds? Frank at best should be coming in for short stints. Now if the Knicks plan is to lose and get him more experience, that's a different story.

I hear ya. He needs time to grow but without a legit PG starter Frank dosen't have much time.


Frank is going to have his struggles with scoring, but he still managed to be a +3 with 4 assists in 25 minutes. The kid has a positive impact almost all the time. He's literally a baby and still manages to have a positive impact. I don't wanna hear about him being a problem cuz he's not.

KP going 5-14, Jack going 4-12 and LT going 0-2 in place of THJ is a problem.

Second wind: Porzingis refreshed after off day

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