newyorknewyork wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:The deal that jumps out at me is Noah for Batuum. But Batuum's deal goes a year longer and the last year is 27 mil I believe. I think if the Knicks wanted that deal they could have it and they probably could get more back.

Is this a rumored deal?

At 15-23 it's possible they would be willing to part with Kemba of we ate Batum.

Lee and Noah for Kemba and Batum could be possible.

CrushAlot wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:The deal that jumps out at me is Noah for Batuum. But Batuum's deal goes a year longer and the last year is 27 mil I believe. I think if the Knicks wanted that deal they could have it and they probably could get more back.

Is this a rumored deal?

At 15-23 it's possible they would be willing to part with Kemba of we ate Batum.

Lee and Noah for Kemba and Batum could be possible.

No. Bobby Marks suggested it during a podcast and explained the logic of it for both teams.

For Charlotte, that would be like being stuck having sex with a really ugly super fat woman who sags and smells bad to being offered to trade her to have sex with a really ugly super fat man who sags and smells bad. You can at least do some marketing around Kemba Walker to sell tickets.

Rich Cho is credited around the league with developing one of the most comprehensive scouting systems in any of the major pro sports. His staff does deep work and is respected around the league. Then Jordan decides to take a Zeller or a Kaminsky and throws Cho's analysis in the trash. Guy must have titanium skin. Working first for Paul Allen ( egomaniac douchebag) then Jordan ( same level of egomaniac douchebag but taller)

Michael Jordan is really stupid. But is he that stupid to trade for Noah?

NardDogNation wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:The deal that jumps out at me is Noah for Batuum. But Batuum's deal goes a year longer and the last year is 27 mil I believe. I think if the Knicks wanted that deal they could have it and they probably could get more back.

Is this a rumored deal?

At 15-23 it's possible they would be willing to part with Kemba of we ate Batum.

Lee and Noah for Kemba and Batum could be possible.

My initial reaction was to dismiss the possibility but MJ has been known to be cheap. I remember when they started dismantling their first playoff-team by selling off Stephen Jackson, Tyson Chandler and Gerald Wallace for cents on the dollar. Those deals should be a model for the asking price of a Kemba Walker deal but even if we took back Batum, a pick would probably have to be involved. And in my opinion, Kemba isn't making us a contender, so why foresake the rebuild?

I wouldn't add a pick. Would be a take it or leave it deal. Don't know the reason why Batum has been so horrible though. Don't know if he has injuries that have derailed his game or if its the system or if he doesn't fit with his teammates. Ideally Batum and Kemba are 2 exact pieces this team has been craving for. Kemba also only makes 12 mil. But if Batum is dead weight then that's a hefty contract to have. Could very possibly be the worst contract in the NBA right now.

knicks1248 wrote:

90sKnicks wrote:I'd be okay with trading Courtney Lee and O'quinn before the deadline. Good veteran presence is important to develop teams so you can't think getting all young kids is a good idea. The only thing that worries me about trading O'Quinn is that his passing gets us about 6-8 points every game. Since we have no semblance of any offensive plays or offensive identity otherwise, I can't imagine how poor our offensive sets would look without him.

Everyone this roster can be replace, IF THE RESULTS MAKES US A BETTER TEAM..

That might be the most profound thing you have ever said. Might even have a tattoo made of that.
Now, how does one do this? You have used the word "Convinced" often. Your looking for substantial evidence to justify moves as "change is only that if no improvement is made".
Thus, and I am rambling having lost my way here...........
Ok, back on task: "Results are in hindsight"!
That's your answer. We can sling all kinds of hypotheticals around, even that trading KP for multiple picks because we believe we won't mess up a pick.
Fact is, most teams do mess up picks. Its a % game. Ainge will look great because he is exposing himself to greater opportunities. Home Run hitters have high strike out %'s. Reggies Jax at one time was the all time strike out leader. The candy bar was not named for his failures, but his success.

Picks have greater value now and are not thrown around as afterthoughts. But, its a treacherous path if not done well and the best way to "get lucky" is to have "More at bats", or increase the chance of success.

Many ways to rebuild. Philly is in perpetual rebuild but might have the light at the end of the tunnel soon. Mav's kept postponing to keep Dirk relevant and its a nice jesture but they have not done well. Rondo was a nice try 4 years ago. Failed to sign Jordan and again looks to have over stepped with Noel. They have a Chip so Cube gets a pass but given he is "such a good owner" he seems to have not directed his franchise back given his love for Dirk. I do give him props for trying.

Ainge is doing what Hinkie tried to do but doing it better. He was able to turn KG and Pierce into gold and did not lose his fan base over it. Took balls. KG and Pierce were men who did not take it personal. Also, its not like they went to a bad situation. The Nets were making a run for glory and while it fell short on paper they went all in. I know I sound like a Net Sympathizer but I Commend them for the commitment they made. In the end it was foolish but if they pulled it off they would have gained a new generation of fans in the country's biggest market!!!

We on the other hand have gone "all in" but failed as well. Isiah's reign of terror was awful. The starphuch don't work either.
What we have here is a tale of two seasons so far. Great start by the team was refreshing and hopefull about this year and the future.
With losing, the tone changes. WE as fans go into the season with mixed expectations and would be ok to win less than .500 but only if we are commited to yoot.
We are to a large extent but the actual losing part does not go down will with fans once the season starts. Our resident Briggs is a clear case.
He now (if healthy, something that can't be determined) is no record we should commit 100 mil to Isiah Thomas. Somehow no other team would do this? If the basis is "Healthy" then the risk is gone and all teams armed with this foresight should make a run for him. How easy is that? No accountability to that statement!
If we do it, and he gets hurt then he can bail and say "Yeah, I thought he'd be healthy". Not so say he is the rerun of Amare or Dice but some push back on this because of the demographic of his height and age does not historically work.

Reality is a playoff bound team is that because they are doing well. What they "Need" and what they are willing to pay are all subjective. Clev paid dearly for Mozgov and felt they had little choices at that moment in time. A few years passed, there are bigs out there that can be had for cheap and this is a problem for us regarding KOQ or Kanter. they are quality, but not unique.

NardDogNation wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:The deal that jumps out at me is Noah for Batuum. But Batuum's deal goes a year longer and the last year is 27 mil I believe. I think if the Knicks wanted that deal they could have it and they probably could get more back.

Is this a rumored deal?

At 15-23 it's possible they would be willing to part with Kemba of we ate Batum.

Lee and Noah for Kemba and Batum could be possible.

My initial reaction was to dismiss the possibility but MJ has been known to be cheap. I remember when they started dismantling their first playoff-team by selling off Stephen Jackson, Tyson Chandler and Gerald Wallace for cents on the dollar. Those deals should be a model for the asking price of a Kemba Walker deal but even if we took back Batum, a pick would probably have to be involved. And in my opinion, Kemba isn't making us a contender, so why foresake the rebuild?

I wouldn't add a pick. Would be a take it or leave it deal. Don't know the reason why Batum has been so horrible though. Don't know if he has injuries that have derailed his game or if its the system or if he doesn't fit with his teammates. Ideally Batum and Kemba are 2 exact pieces this team has been craving for. Kemba also only makes 12 mil. But if Batum is dead weight then that's a hefty contract to have. Could very possibly be the worst contract in the NBA right now.

Batum is older and is injuried but he has had an M.O. for being a money-grab type player. I remember similar complaints about his play after the Blazers matched that big offer sheet from the Wolves. Now that he has that security of another long-term deal, I could see him willingly fade into anonymity as just an overpriced cog in a machine.

And now that I think about it, wasn't the reason he fell so badly in the 2008 draft due to people questioning his drive? Many mocks had him in the top-10 for much of that season and then he just plummeted to 23rd on draft night.

Whatever the case, I think the Hornets would leave your offer. Kemba is the only chip they have to play that can get them something of actual value. Pretty much every other player on that roster (save maybe a Malik Monk) is a net negative asset. The only way I could see them moving picks is for contracts dumps of other players on the roster. But do we even have the cap flexibility or expiring contracts to facilitate something like that? And if we did, would you want to blow it (and playing time for our youth) on that type of package?

Thinking about it though. Kemba wouldn't be worth adding Batum for NY if Batum is to be the worst contract in the NBA over the next 4.5 yrs making up to 27mil. And Kemba as well as probably another piece would be the only assets they could move to get away from his contract. Noah they could stretch after next season. While they could probably re trade Lee for an expiring in the off season.

They are gonna suck regardless and would have lotto picks to fall back on over the yrs as they attempt to clean up the cap. Probably get protected late future first for Kaminski. Could get value for Lamb.

NardDogNation wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:The deal that jumps out at me is Noah for Batuum. But Batuum's deal goes a year longer and the last year is 27 mil I believe. I think if the Knicks wanted that deal they could have it and they probably could get more back.

Is this a rumored deal?

At 15-23 it's possible they would be willing to part with Kemba of we ate Batum.

Lee and Noah for Kemba and Batum could be possible.

My initial reaction was to dismiss the possibility but MJ has been known to be cheap. I remember when they started dismantling their first playoff-team by selling off Stephen Jackson, Tyson Chandler and Gerald Wallace for cents on the dollar. Those deals should be a model for the asking price of a Kemba Walker deal but even if we took back Batum, a pick would probably have to be involved. And in my opinion, Kemba isn't making us a contender, so why foresake the rebuild?

I wouldn't add a pick. Would be a take it or leave it deal. Don't know the reason why Batum has been so horrible though. Don't know if he has injuries that have derailed his game or if its the system or if he doesn't fit with his teammates. Ideally Batum and Kemba are 2 exact pieces this team has been craving for. Kemba also only makes 12 mil. But if Batum is dead weight then that's a hefty contract to have. Could very possibly be the worst contract in the NBA right now.

Batum is older and is injuried but he has had an M.O. for being a money-grab type player. I remember similar complaints about his play after the Blazers matched that big offer sheet from the Wolves. Now that he has that security of another long-term deal, I could see him willingly fade into anonymity as just an overpriced cog in a machine.

And now that I think about it, wasn't the reason he fell so badly in the 2008 draft due to people questioning his drive? Many mocks had him in the top-10 for much of that season and then he just plummeted to 23rd on draft night.

Whatever the case, I think the Hornets would leave your offer. Kemba is the only chip they have to play that can get them something of actual value. Pretty much every other player on that roster (save maybe a Malik Monk) is a net negative asset. The only way I could see them moving picks is for contracts dumps of other players on the roster. But do we even have the cap flexibility or expiring contracts to facilitate something like that? And if we did, would you want to blow it (and playing time for our youth) on that type of package?

Thinking about it though. Kemba wouldn't be worth adding Batum for NY if Batum is to be the worst contract in the NBA over the next 4.5 yrs making up to 27mil. And Kemba as well as probably another piece would be the only assets they could move to get away from his contract. Noah they could stretch after next season. While they could probably re trade Lee for an expiring in the off season.

They are gonna suck regardless and would have lotto picks to fall back on over the yrs as they attempt to clean up the cap. Probably get protected late future first for Kaminski. Could get value for Lamb.

Lamb has definitely had a revival this season, so they could probably get something for him. Kaminsky, I don't know about though. I don't think there is a lineup he is part of that actually has a positive +/- rating. And the eye test confirms, he doesn't seem to be that good.

But if that's all you have to work with, it isn't much to jumpstart a rebuild with the type of assets they'd command. MJ's money isn't that long and he also abhors tanking, so I can't see them trying to rebuild and suffer the financial fallout from doing so. That reality is why I see the Hornets as a team more likely to surrender picks to offload their bad contracts than kicking Kemba Walker to the curb. Keeping a 5"10' PG as your franchise player is a risky proposition but I don't think Jordan is as concerned about the future as much as the implications of the here-and-now. Unfortunately for us, we've managled our cap situation so badly that I think it would be ill-advised to consider taking any salary from the Hornets even if they included a first rounder....which could be a pretty good one.

I see what your saying. But I don't think they would just look to dump contracts in that case. They would look to package players with picks for better talent.