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do you really think frank has the ability to be a top 8 pg in this league
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martin
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12/29/2017  11:47 AM
Man, some of you are ridiculous in your predictions.

You know how many years it took Mike Conley, Steve Nash, Kyle Lowry, Dragic before ANY of them hit 14 ppg and 6 apg? 4 years, 5 years, 7 years, 7 years. Started in league at 20, 22, 20, 22 years old respectfully. Yes, Steve Nash was finally 15.6 and 7.3 assits at age 26.

I'd say Frank will hit 15 and 7 by his 3rd year EASILY. While being a much better defender then any of them.

Frank is hitting almost 42% of his 3pt shots for Dec.

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fishmike
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12/29/2017  11:49 AM
Uptown wrote:
Vmart wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Vmart wrote:Frank is going to be great. He is a rookie who plays under control. It’s these type of players that win championships and lead. They put importance in team work as opposed to individual recognition. They are selfless always willing to help other get theirs and keep everyone moving and expecting the next pass.

You think he won’t be a double digit scorer in the NBA. I think he will I see Frank Averaging anywhere from 14-18 points and 8-10 assists while giving the Knicks stellar defense.

That would be amazing. Right now I see him becoming a 10 and 5 guy that shares the position with an Ish Smith type point. I hope you are right.

The last time the Knicks went to the finals they had a platoon system going where it was Ward And Childs. As long as the team is winning who cares how they are getting it done.

It was a different league then...the game was still played inside out during those times. Now, its a perimeter oriented game...

yup... putting even more value on a player who can lock down 3 positions. 30 games into his career at 19 he's one of the leagues better defensive players. He's gonna make tons of mistakes but geeze, just look at the kid play. He's already answered the questions about quickness and athleticism. Now he's attacking more.

I suspect we see him named the starter soon.

fishmike
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12/29/2017  11:54 AM
CrushAlot wrote:
Vmart wrote:Frank is going to be great. He is a rookie who plays under control. It’s these type of players that win championships and lead. They put importance in team work as opposed to individual recognition. They are selfless always willing to help other get theirs and keep everyone moving and expecting the next pass.

You think he won’t be a double digit scorer in the NBA. I think he will I see Frank Averaging anywhere from 14-18 points and 8-10 assists while giving the Knicks stellar defense.

That would be amazing. Right now I see him becoming a 10 and 5 guy that shares the position with an Ish Smith type point. I hope you are right.
10.1 points, 5.9 assists, 3.7 rebounds, 2.3 steals, and 1.1 three-point field goals made per 36 minute

Thats Frank NOW dude. So at 19 and 30 games into his NBA career and you see him becoming pretty much the same a what he is now with a few more minutes?

fishmike
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12/29/2017  11:55 AM
knicks1248 wrote:Teams are now playing way off him, giving him lanes, space, and he refuses to shoot. His in ability to score is having an effect on the entire team. Even as a rookie he should be showing signs that he can score when needed, and that has happen maybe twice this entire season, and only for a few min.

This kid has career avg's of 4ppg for a reason, and that's cool if that's not his game, but is that the kind of pg we want running JH system, a coach who is preaching run, run, run, and shoot more 3's, and that's really not franks game at all..

How many times have you seen him brick a mid range jumper with a wide open lane, he is going to be like that for his career, his mind set is defense, defense, defense. And before you say he's just young and he's learning , think about Shump, and how he use to run down the court top speed, only to stop by the 3 point line and wait for the defense.

players get stronger and wiser in this leagues, very really do they change their entire game as they get older, frank will never be a double digit scorer. In the right role frank has good value, but in a system like MDA or JH, not a good look

This is almost as good as your "how long before Hornecek is fired" thread
StarksEwing1
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12/29/2017  12:03 PM
martin wrote:Man, some of you are ridiculous in your predictions.

You know how many years it took Mike Conley, Steve Nash, Kyle Lowry, Dragic before ANY of them hit 14 ppg and 6 apg? 4 years, 5 years, 7 years, 7 years. Started in league at 20, 22, 20, 22 years old respectfully. Yes, Steve Nash was finally 15.6 and 7.3 assits at age 26.

I'd say Frank will hit 15 and 7 by his 3rd year EASILY. While being a much better defender then any of them.

Frank is hitting almost 42% of his 3pt shots for Dec.

this
CrushAlot
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12/29/2017  12:17 PM
fishmike wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Vmart wrote:Frank is going to be great. He is a rookie who plays under control. It’s these type of players that win championships and lead. They put importance in team work as opposed to individual recognition. They are selfless always willing to help other get theirs and keep everyone moving and expecting the next pass.

You think he won’t be a double digit scorer in the NBA. I think he will I see Frank Averaging anywhere from 14-18 points and 8-10 assists while giving the Knicks stellar defense.

That would be amazing. Right now I see him becoming a 10 and 5 guy that shares the position with an Ish Smith type point. I hope you are right.
10.1 points, 5.9 assists, 3.7 rebounds, 2.3 steals, and 1.1 three-point field goals made per 36 minute

Thats Frank NOW dude. So at 19 and 30 games into his NBA career and you see him becoming pretty much the same a what he is now with a few more minutes?

The Knicks have a guy on their roster who's per 36 is 10 pts 15 rebs, 5 assists and 3+ blocks. Not expecting to ever see that though. The numbers you posted are right around where I think Frank lands. I hope I am mistaken and that he finds an aggressiveness on offense that makes him more effective as a point guard. He is very young and by all accounts a high character kid that wants to learn.
You playTrey Burke... Wally Szcerbiak
StarksEwing1
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12/29/2017  12:27 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
fishmike wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Vmart wrote:Frank is going to be great. He is a rookie who plays under control. It’s these type of players that win championships and lead. They put importance in team work as opposed to individual recognition. They are selfless always willing to help other get theirs and keep everyone moving and expecting the next pass.

You think he won’t be a double digit scorer in the NBA. I think he will I see Frank Averaging anywhere from 14-18 points and 8-10 assists while giving the Knicks stellar defense.

That would be amazing. Right now I see him becoming a 10 and 5 guy that shares the position with an Ish Smith type point. I hope you are right.
10.1 points, 5.9 assists, 3.7 rebounds, 2.3 steals, and 1.1 three-point field goals made per 36 minute

Thats Frank NOW dude. So at 19 and 30 games into his NBA career and you see him becoming pretty much the same a what he is now with a few more minutes?

The Knicks have a guy on their roster who's per 36 is 10 pts 15 rebs, 5 assists and 3+ blocks. Not expecting to ever see that though. The numbers you posted are right around where I think Frank lands. I hope I am mistaken and that he finds an aggressiveness on offense that makes him more effective as a point guard. He is very young and by all accounts a high character kid that wants to learn.
to be fair he is 19 and only played 30 ,games. So i do expect his numbers to raise higher once he gains more experience and starter minutes. We know he can shoot and we have started to see him drive more. Im not saying he will be a 20 ppg player but 13-16 ppg along with his great defense and dishing would make me happy and seems likely
Zebo13
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12/29/2017  12:42 PM
StarksEwing1 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:Teams are now playing way off him, giving him lanes, space, and he refuses to shoot. His in ability to score is having an effect on the entire team. Even as a rookie he should be showing signs that he can score when needed, and that has happen maybe twice this entire season, and only for a few min.

This kid has career avg's of 4ppg for a reason, and that's cool if that's not his game, but is that the kind of pg we want running JH system, a coach who is preaching run, run, run, and shoot more 3's, and that's really not franks game at all..

How many times have you seen him brick a mid range jumper with a wide open lane, he is going to be like that for his career, his mind set is defense, defense, defense. And before you say he's just young and he's learning , think about Shump, and how he use to run down the court top speed, only to stop by the 3 point line and wait for the defense.

players get stronger and wiser in this leagues, very really do they change their entire game as they get older, frank will never be a double digit scorer. In the right role frank has good value, but in a system like MDA or JH, not a good look

i know you want frank gone but we need a point guard like him. He will be a very good two way point guard. He is only 19 so its a bit unfair to expect him to have everything put together right away.

Tony Parker called it. “His defense is very good which is hard to teach, his offense will come with time.” Spot on. He’s gonna be great. Nearly all the great PG class this year are playing like doodoo or not playing at all. Frank is growing and improving on a weekly basis. He’s gonna be good, maybe even great.

Zebo13
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12/29/2017  12:48 PM
martin wrote:Man, some of you are ridiculous in your predictions.

You know how many years it took Mike Conley, Steve Nash, Kyle Lowry, Dragic before ANY of them hit 14 ppg and 6 apg? 4 years, 5 years, 7 years, 7 years. Started in league at 20, 22, 20, 22 years old respectfully. Yes, Steve Nash was finally 15.6 and 7.3 assits at age 26.

I'd say Frank will hit 15 and 7 by his 3rd year EASILY. While being a much better defender then any of them.

Frank is hitting almost 42% of his 3pt shots for Dec.

Great info! Thank you. He’s younger yet more experienced. This kid is special.

BigDaddyG
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12/29/2017  1:47 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/29/2017  1:51 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:would you rather have Kriss dunn (who is top 5 in steals), or frank?

But Kris Dunn sucked his rookie yr


Kris Dunn kinda sucks now, but he is improving. If you look at the progress Frank has made in just the past few weeks, it's impossible to project where he'll end up. To answer the original question, I'd rather have Frank, who is like 4 years younger
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
newyorknewyork
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12/29/2017  2:07 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
fishmike wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Vmart wrote:Frank is going to be great. He is a rookie who plays under control. It’s these type of players that win championships and lead. They put importance in team work as opposed to individual recognition. They are selfless always willing to help other get theirs and keep everyone moving and expecting the next pass.

You think he won’t be a double digit scorer in the NBA. I think he will I see Frank Averaging anywhere from 14-18 points and 8-10 assists while giving the Knicks stellar defense.

That would be amazing. Right now I see him becoming a 10 and 5 guy that shares the position with an Ish Smith type point. I hope you are right.
10.1 points, 5.9 assists, 3.7 rebounds, 2.3 steals, and 1.1 three-point field goals made per 36 minute

Thats Frank NOW dude. So at 19 and 30 games into his NBA career and you see him becoming pretty much the same a what he is now with a few more minutes?

The Knicks have a guy on their roster who's per 36 is 10 pts 15 rebs, 5 assists and 3+ blocks. Not expecting to ever see that though. The numbers you posted are right around where I think Frank lands. I hope I am mistaken and that he finds an aggressiveness on offense that makes him more effective as a point guard. He is very young and by all accounts a high character kid that wants to learn.

I don't think he needs more aggressiveness to become more efficient. Rasing the efficiency in what he does currently can lead to more aggressiveness though.

He hardly takes bad shots. All his shot come in the flow of the offense. He also rarely gets the ball back on kick outs from his teammates once he passes though. He is isn't at the level where he feels it's his team and he has to make it happen for them which will come with time and experience. But back to the original thought. Based off the shots that he takes he could easily be a 50% shooter since they are mostly good looks. If he shoots only 10 times a game at 50%. With 2 of them being 3s. That would be an easy 12 pts a game without including FTs.

So there is the route that he can take where he becomes very efficient with the good shots he does take. Which would bring him and the team to another level by itself. Great defense and efficient shooting within the flow of a game reducing is what Kwahi's game is all about and less him to be an MVP calibre player. Remember when he played great defense on LeBron while averaging like 25-30pts in the finals because his buckets all came with easy off of efficient team play?

smackeddog
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12/29/2017  2:11 PM
I’m going to give him more than a couple of months
Chandler
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12/29/2017  2:22 PM
knicks1248 wrote:He is a defensive player that will defer to other players on the court when it comes to offensive, that's his calling, and there is nothing wrong with that. Defensive players hardly turn into offensive players, just like scorers rarely turn into defenders.

I just think that you have to have a pg who can score at a good clip in this era of the NBA, and have a guy like frank on your bench for defensive purposes.

Kawhi leonard and Jimmy Butler beg to differ

Gary "the glove" payton might too.

DJMUSIC: Fisher talked a good game in Post game but aside from that Derek Fisher was ALL CHIT CHAT SH_t and produced nothing!
HofstraBBall
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12/29/2017  2:23 PM
Vmart wrote:Frank is going to be great. He is a rookie who plays under control. It’s these type of players that win championships and lead. They put importance in team work as opposed to individual recognition. They are selfless always willing to help other get theirs and keep everyone moving and expecting the next pass.

You think he won’t be a double digit scorer in the NBA. I think he will I see Frank Averaging anywhere from 14-18 points and 8-10 assists while giving the Knicks stellar defense.

Curious, in a time when players like Steph, Irving, Wall, Lowry, Harden are pushing the pace and raining threes, who exactly are you referring to that plays like Frank and winning chips?

Think the argument is not so much about how Frank is doing as a rookie but was that type of player worth an 8 pick.

fishmike Posts: 48006 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 7/19/2002 Member: #298 USA 6/23/2016 12:35 PM fishmike worte" The dream? Would be Pg Rose SG GPII SF Durant PF Melo C Noah Bench: KP, Langston, KOQ, Clyde Frazier
CrushAlot
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12/29/2017  2:36 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
fishmike wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Vmart wrote:Frank is going to be great. He is a rookie who plays under control. It’s these type of players that win championships and lead. They put importance in team work as opposed to individual recognition. They are selfless always willing to help other get theirs and keep everyone moving and expecting the next pass.

You think he won’t be a double digit scorer in the NBA. I think he will I see Frank Averaging anywhere from 14-18 points and 8-10 assists while giving the Knicks stellar defense.

That would be amazing. Right now I see him becoming a 10 and 5 guy that shares the position with an Ish Smith type point. I hope you are right.
10.1 points, 5.9 assists, 3.7 rebounds, 2.3 steals, and 1.1 three-point field goals made per 36 minute

Thats Frank NOW dude. So at 19 and 30 games into his NBA career and you see him becoming pretty much the same a what he is now with a few more minutes?

The Knicks have a guy on their roster who's per 36 is 10 pts 15 rebs, 5 assists and 3+ blocks. Not expecting to ever see that though. The numbers you posted are right around where I think Frank lands. I hope I am mistaken and that he finds an aggressiveness on offense that makes him more effective as a point guard. He is very young and by all accounts a high character kid that wants to learn.

I don't think he needs more aggressiveness to become more efficient. Rasing the efficiency in what he does currently can lead to more aggressiveness though.

He hardly takes bad shots. All his shot come in the flow of the offense. He also rarely gets the ball back on kick outs from his teammates once he passes though. He is isn't at the level where he feels it's his team and he has to make it happen for them which will come with time and experience. But back to the original thought. Based off the shots that he takes he could easily be a 50% shooter since they are mostly good looks. If he shoots only 10 times a game at 50%. With 2 of them being 3s. That would be an easy 12 pts a game without including FTs.

So there is the route that he can take where he becomes very efficient with the good shots he does take. Which would bring him and the team to another level by itself. Great defense and efficient shooting within the flow of a game reducing is what Kwahi's game is all about and less him to be an MVP calibre player. Remember when he played great defense on LeBron while averaging like 25-30pts in the finals because his buckets all came with easy off of efficient team play?

Your description of him on offense reminds of Jose Calderon.
You playTrey Burke... Wally Szcerbiak
CrushAlot
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12/29/2017  2:36 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
fishmike wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Vmart wrote:Frank is going to be great. He is a rookie who plays under control. It’s these type of players that win championships and lead. They put importance in team work as opposed to individual recognition. They are selfless always willing to help other get theirs and keep everyone moving and expecting the next pass.

You think he won’t be a double digit scorer in the NBA. I think he will I see Frank Averaging anywhere from 14-18 points and 8-10 assists while giving the Knicks stellar defense.

That would be amazing. Right now I see him becoming a 10 and 5 guy that shares the position with an Ish Smith type point. I hope you are right.
10.1 points, 5.9 assists, 3.7 rebounds, 2.3 steals, and 1.1 three-point field goals made per 36 minute

Thats Frank NOW dude. So at 19 and 30 games into his NBA career and you see him becoming pretty much the same a what he is now with a few more minutes?

The Knicks have a guy on their roster who's per 36 is 10 pts 15 rebs, 5 assists and 3+ blocks. Not expecting to ever see that though. The numbers you posted are right around where I think Frank lands. I hope I am mistaken and that he finds an aggressiveness on offense that makes him more effective as a point guard. He is very young and by all accounts a high character kid that wants to learn.

I don't think he needs more aggressiveness to become more efficient. Rasing the efficiency in what he does currently can lead to more aggressiveness though.

He hardly takes bad shots. All his shot come in the flow of the offense. He also rarely gets the ball back on kick outs from his teammates once he passes though. He is isn't at the level where he feels it's his team and he has to make it happen for them which will come with time and experience. But back to the original thought. Based off the shots that he takes he could easily be a 50% shooter since they are mostly good looks. If he shoots only 10 times a game at 50%. With 2 of them being 3s. That would be an easy 12 pts a game without including FTs.

So there is the route that he can take where he becomes very efficient with the good shots he does take. Which would bring him and the team to another level by itself. Great defense and efficient shooting within the flow of a game reducing is what Kwahi's game is all about and less him to be an MVP calibre player. Remember when he played great defense on LeBron while averaging like 25-30pts in the finals because his buckets all came with easy off of efficient team play?

Your description of him on offense reminds of Jose Calderon.
You playTrey Burke... Wally Szcerbiak
MaTT4281
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12/29/2017  2:39 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
fishmike wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Vmart wrote:Frank is going to be great. He is a rookie who plays under control. It’s these type of players that win championships and lead. They put importance in team work as opposed to individual recognition. They are selfless always willing to help other get theirs and keep everyone moving and expecting the next pass.

You think he won’t be a double digit scorer in the NBA. I think he will I see Frank Averaging anywhere from 14-18 points and 8-10 assists while giving the Knicks stellar defense.

That would be amazing. Right now I see him becoming a 10 and 5 guy that shares the position with an Ish Smith type point. I hope you are right.
10.1 points, 5.9 assists, 3.7 rebounds, 2.3 steals, and 1.1 three-point field goals made per 36 minute

Thats Frank NOW dude. So at 19 and 30 games into his NBA career and you see him becoming pretty much the same a what he is now with a few more minutes?

The Knicks have a guy on their roster who's per 36 is 10 pts 15 rebs, 5 assists and 3+ blocks. Not expecting to ever see that though. The numbers you posted are right around where I think Frank lands. I hope I am mistaken and that he finds an aggressiveness on offense that makes him more effective as a point guard. He is very young and by all accounts a high character kid that wants to learn.

I don't think he needs more aggressiveness to become more efficient. Rasing the efficiency in what he does currently can lead to more aggressiveness though.

He hardly takes bad shots. All his shot come in the flow of the offense. He also rarely gets the ball back on kick outs from his teammates once he passes though. He is isn't at the level where he feels it's his team and he has to make it happen for them which will come with time and experience. But back to the original thought. Based off the shots that he takes he could easily be a 50% shooter since they are mostly good looks. If he shoots only 10 times a game at 50%. With 2 of them being 3s. That would be an easy 12 pts a game without including FTs.

So there is the route that he can take where he becomes very efficient with the good shots he does take. Which would bring him and the team to another level by itself. Great defense and efficient shooting within the flow of a game reducing is what Kwahi's game is all about and less him to be an MVP calibre player. Remember when he played great defense on LeBron while averaging like 25-30pts in the finals because his buckets all came with easy off of efficient team play?

Your description of him on offense reminds of Jose Calderon.

Calderon with Frank's defense would be a hell of a player!

"I must break you." - Kristaps Porzingis to Rocky Balboa
newyorknewyork
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12/29/2017  2:52 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
Vmart wrote:Frank is going to be great. He is a rookie who plays under control. It’s these type of players that win championships and lead. They put importance in team work as opposed to individual recognition. They are selfless always willing to help other get theirs and keep everyone moving and expecting the next pass.

You think he won’t be a double digit scorer in the NBA. I think he will I see Frank Averaging anywhere from 14-18 points and 8-10 assists while giving the Knicks stellar defense.

Curious, in a time when players like Steph, Irving, Wall, Lowry, Harden are pushing the pace and raining threes, who exactly are you referring to that plays like Frank and winning chips?

Think the argument is not so much about how Frank is doing as a rookie but was that type of player worth an 8 pick.

Would be amazing if we could and a LeBron or Draymond to the rotation to grow with Frank & KP. They would ball out with a 2-way playmaker like that.

newyorknewyork
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12/29/2017  2:58 PM
MaTT4281 wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
fishmike wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Vmart wrote:Frank is going to be great. He is a rookie who plays under control. It’s these type of players that win championships and lead. They put importance in team work as opposed to individual recognition. They are selfless always willing to help other get theirs and keep everyone moving and expecting the next pass.

You think he won’t be a double digit scorer in the NBA. I think he will I see Frank Averaging anywhere from 14-18 points and 8-10 assists while giving the Knicks stellar defense.

That would be amazing. Right now I see him becoming a 10 and 5 guy that shares the position with an Ish Smith type point. I hope you are right.
10.1 points, 5.9 assists, 3.7 rebounds, 2.3 steals, and 1.1 three-point field goals made per 36 minute

Thats Frank NOW dude. So at 19 and 30 games into his NBA career and you see him becoming pretty much the same a what he is now with a few more minutes?

The Knicks have a guy on their roster who's per 36 is 10 pts 15 rebs, 5 assists and 3+ blocks. Not expecting to ever see that though. The numbers you posted are right around where I think Frank lands. I hope I am mistaken and that he finds an aggressiveness on offense that makes him more effective as a point guard. He is very young and by all accounts a high character kid that wants to learn.

I don't think he needs more aggressiveness to become more efficient. Rasing the efficiency in what he does currently can lead to more aggressiveness though.

He hardly takes bad shots. All his shot come in the flow of the offense. He also rarely gets the ball back on kick outs from his teammates once he passes though. He is isn't at the level where he feels it's his team and he has to make it happen for them which will come with time and experience. But back to the original thought. Based off the shots that he takes he could easily be a 50% shooter since they are mostly good looks. If he shoots only 10 times a game at 50%. With 2 of them being 3s. That would be an easy 12 pts a game without including FTs.

So there is the route that he can take where he becomes very efficient with the good shots he does take. Which would bring him and the team to another level by itself. Great defense and efficient shooting within the flow of a game reducing is what Kwahi's game is all about and less him to be an MVP calibre player. Remember when he played great defense on LeBron while averaging like 25-30pts in the finals because his buckets all came with easy off of efficient team play?

Your description of him on offense reminds of Jose Calderon.

Calderon with Frank's defense would be a hell of a player!

If Jose had all NBA defense potential with his efficient shooting and decent playmaking. Sheeeeeesh
Not to mention I see Frank contributing more on the boards as he get more comfortable due to his length.

newyorknewyork
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12/29/2017  3:12 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/29/2017  3:13 PM
I would like him to develop into what Kidd was for us his one season. Until playoffs at least. His penetration ability was shot. So of course Frank being younger I hope he is able to provide more penetration ability then he did. If not finding a better verions of Felton to offset that would work as well. Kidd's defense, rebounding, 3 pts shooting, intangibles, leadership, was all huge. Molding Frank into that for a 10+ yr career. While his youth enhances some of the things Kidd lacked would be amazing.

He abviously would never he a Westbrook type so that Kidd with the Knicks is the type of game that suits him. But again a youthful upgraded version.

do you really think frank has the ability to be a top 8 pg in this league

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