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Game Thread 12/27: Calling Chicago's BULLS***
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AboveDaRim1115
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12/27/2017  10:33 PM
We Need Mark Jackson so Bad!!!!!
⏳It will be better once Dolan is gone!!!🚨
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nyknickzingis
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12/27/2017  10:34 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/27/2017  10:38 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:Now do you guys see why we need to start frank and Dotson until THJr comes back?
What is the point of not starting them? Might as well let them gain experience
Frank frustrated me as a ball handler tonight. Seems like the kKnicks are putting KP in the Melo role lately. Frank needs to up the aggression on offense.

The offense is bogging down to isolations
Teams have figured out that they won't hit the cutters or off the ball guys on the wings and even if they do teams aren't afraid of CLee or McD going off
Offense has come down to us feeding Porzingis Beasley or Kanter and all 3 don't even look to pass once the ball is with them.

This is why I want Willy to get PT. Frank, Willy and KP need to be playing together through these losses to learn.

Hornachek hasn't made any adjustments he has seen the last four games like this and he isn't adjusting his offense. Teams have figured out we won't hit the cutter on the wings that we trust KP or Beasley or Kanter more. We really miss THJ in this regard. But as a coach Horny should have adjusted by now. Maybe more pick and rolls. Maybe more encouragement to the wings to cut harder and to tell the guards to trust the wings to make those shots.

The worst thing that has happened to this team is Beasley and Kanter going off. Now we are a 3 man ISO team. Nothing like seasons start.

Beasley has no business being in a NBA rotation of a playoff team.
Kanter should be more of a screen and roll and post sprinter.
KP needs to be told to cut down on the three point shots.

By the time the road games catch up with the home games maybe we will be so out of the playoffs that Horny will see the light and play Willy, Baker, Dotson, Frank. I have zero interest in being where I fear the Knicks are headed. 35 wins. Just out of the playoffs while favoring veteran players over draft picks. We are relying way too much on players who likely won't be here a year or two from now.

CrushAlot
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12/27/2017  10:34 PM
MS wrote:Beasley is the last person that should be taking the ball out in these situations.

Without Hardaway we are not good. Sloppy execution down the stretch again.

As much as it would be great to make the playoffs they need additional cheap talent in the worst way. Noah, Baker and Thomas kill any chance we can improve in free agency.

Really needed this one.

Agree about Hardaway. Jack and Frank do not put pressure on the defense. The Knicks desperately need an aggressive guard on offense.
You playTrey Burke... Wally Szcerbiak
90sKnicks
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12/27/2017  10:37 PM
There really isn't much to feel good about as a Knicks fan. They are horrendous but won't be horrendous enough to get a top 5 pick. Porzingis' quick start this season was a mirage. All he is is a 7-foot-3 shooter. He has not improved and is very limited. We have no point guard play but that was to be expected so that doesn't bother me. Our coaching is pretty bad. They have no style of play. What I am most baffled about is Hornacek always talking about how he wants them to play faster yet they never do. How hard is it to get your team to play your style after 1.5 years of coaching.

How do the Knicks get killed on the boards with two 7 footers? Porzingis rebounded better last year. Today his rebounding was pathetic.

90sKnicks
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12/27/2017  10:41 PM
On a positive note at least Lance Thomas played elite defense tonight. For everyone who criticizes him, at least he brings it on the defensive end every game
CrushAlot
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12/27/2017  10:46 PM
nyknickzingis wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:Now do you guys see why we need to start frank and Dotson until THJr comes back?
What is the point of not starting them? Might as well let them gain experience
Frank frustrated me as a ball handler tonight. Seems like the kKnicks are putting KP in the Melo role lately. Frank needs to up the aggression on offense.

The offense is bogging down to isolations
Teams have figured out that they won't hit the cutters or off the ball guys on the wings and even if they do teams aren't afraid of CLee or McD going off
Offense has come down to us feeding Porzingis Beasley or Kanter and all 3 don't even look to pass once the ball is with them.

This is why I want Willy to get PT. Frank, Willy and KP need to be playing together through these losses to learn.

Hornachek hasn't made any adjustments he has seen the last four games like this and he isn't adjusting his offense. Teams have figured out we won't hit the cutter on the wings that we trust KP or Beasley or Kanter more. We really miss THJ in this regard. But as a coach Horny should have adjusted by now. Maybe more pick and rolls. Maybe more encouragement to the wings to cut harder and to tell the guards to trust the wings to make those shots.

The worst thing that has happened to this team is Beasley and Kanter going off. Now we are a 3 man ISO team. Nothing like seasons start.

Beasley has no business being in a NBA rotation of a playoff team.
Kanter should be more of a screen and roll and post sprinter.
KP needs to be told to cut down on the three point shots.

By the time the road games catch up with the home games maybe we will be so out of the playoffs that Horny will see the light and play Willy, Baker, Dotson, Frank.


I wish I had dvr'd the game because I was distracted doing other things during the first half and early into the third quarter. What I think I saw way too much of was Frank stopping just after the half court line and dribbling while he waited for Lee or someone to get open. Then it was generally one pass and one on one play. It seemed like the Knicks were reverting back to the Melo centric offense with KP and it wasn't working. KP needs a guard to get him some easy shots. He isn't going to hold up in the Melo role. In regards to your desire for Willy to play it was discussed just yesterday quite a bit. Willy isn't earning minutes. Frank is a mixed bag and his deficits are more evident with Hardaway out. KP looks tired. Not sure he can handle a ton of minutes when he needs to carry the offense. Not sure where the Kanter hate is coming from. Sorry but he is better than Willy.
You playTrey Burke... Wally Szcerbiak
CrushAlot
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12/27/2017  10:46 PM
nyknickzingis wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:Now do you guys see why we need to start frank and Dotson until THJr comes back?
What is the point of not starting them? Might as well let them gain experience
Frank frustrated me as a ball handler tonight. Seems like the kKnicks are putting KP in the Melo role lately. Frank needs to up the aggression on offense.

The offense is bogging down to isolations
Teams have figured out that they won't hit the cutters or off the ball guys on the wings and even if they do teams aren't afraid of CLee or McD going off
Offense has come down to us feeding Porzingis Beasley or Kanter and all 3 don't even look to pass once the ball is with them.

This is why I want Willy to get PT. Frank, Willy and KP need to be playing together through these losses to learn.

Hornachek hasn't made any adjustments he has seen the last four games like this and he isn't adjusting his offense. Teams have figured out we won't hit the cutter on the wings that we trust KP or Beasley or Kanter more. We really miss THJ in this regard. But as a coach Horny should have adjusted by now. Maybe more pick and rolls. Maybe more encouragement to the wings to cut harder and to tell the guards to trust the wings to make those shots.

The worst thing that has happened to this team is Beasley and Kanter going off. Now we are a 3 man ISO team. Nothing like seasons start.

Beasley has no business being in a NBA rotation of a playoff team.
Kanter should be more of a screen and roll and post sprinter.
KP needs to be told to cut down on the three point shots.

By the time the road games catch up with the home games maybe we will be so out of the playoffs that Horny will see the light and play Willy, Baker, Dotson, Frank.


I wish I had dvr'd the game because I was distracted doing other things during the first half and early into the third quarter. What I think I saw way too much of was Frank stopping just after the half court line and dribbling while he waited for Lee or someone to get open. Then it was generally one pass and one on one play. It seemed like the Knicks were reverting back to the Melo centric offense with KP and it wasn't working. KP needs a guard to get him some easy shots. He isn't going to hold up in the Melo role. In regards to your desire for Willy to play it was discussed just yesterday quite a bit. Willy isn't earning minutes. Frank is a mixed bag and his deficits are more evident with Hardaway out. KP looks tired. Not sure he can handle a ton of minutes when he needs to carry the offense. Not sure where the Kanter hate is coming from. Sorry but he is better than Willy.
You playTrey Burke... Wally Szcerbiak
nyknickzingis
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12/27/2017  10:47 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/27/2017  10:49 PM
I think the way Porzingis plays you have to get multiple double threats around him
Players equally competent at passing and shooting

The team we have around him right now is full of guys good at one but not the other skill.

Can shoot - Lee, McD
Can pass not shoot - Baker, Frank, Jack
Can score but not really anything else on O - Kanter, Beasley

Good teams have a couple of players capable to be double or triple threats from the perimeter

To his credit Hardaway was playing like a quality double threat before he got hurt.

When Frank starts to make some shots I think he can be a double threat player ... guy that can be a passer a pnr guy or a spot up shooter ... same for THJ. Rest of the team ... nope. CLee needs to come off the bench.

nyknickzingis
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12/27/2017  10:52 PM
No hate for Kanter
I just think his value is overrated on this board
He does not make the team better on either end
Advanced stats show the team plays better without him

I love his toughness and attitude but there was a reason OKC brought him off the bench.
Playoff contenders will not start guys like Kanter IMO
He's a great instant energy offense big

CrushAlot
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12/27/2017  10:54 PM
nyknickzingis wrote:I think the way Porzingis plays you have to get multiple double threats around him
Players equally competent at passing and shooting

The team we have around him right now is full of guys good at one but not the other skill.

Can shoot - Lee, McD
Can pass not shoot - Baker, Frank, Jack
Can score but not really anything else on O - Kanter, Beasley

Good teams have a couple of players capable to be double or triple threats from the perimeter

To his credit Hardaway was playing like a quality double threat before he got hurt.

When Frank starts to make some shots I think he can be a double threat player ... guy that can be a passer a pnr guy or a spot up shooter ... same for THJ. Rest of the team ... nope. CLee needs to come off the bench.


Not really anything else on o for one of the league leading offensive rebounders?
You playTrey Burke... Wally Szcerbiak
knicks1248
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12/27/2017  10:55 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
MS wrote:Beasley is the last person that should be taking the ball out in these situations.

Without Hardaway we are not good. Sloppy execution down the stretch again.

As much as it would be great to make the playoffs they need additional cheap talent in the worst way. Noah, Baker and Thomas kill any chance we can improve in free agency.

Really needed this one.

Agree about Hardaway. Jack and Frank do not put pressure on the defense. The Knicks desperately need an aggressive guard on offense.

Frank should not be getting clutch PT.

Look at dunn from last yr to this yr, he barely played a min with the twolves, and he started the season behind grant, now he has earned a prominent role. We just throw frank out there and let him learn from his mistakes.

Frank is not ready, there's a full scouting report on him now, he's in the game plan now, he can't make those adjustments on the fly, and that may cause more harm then good when you start developing bad habits.

This kid skipped basic training and went straight to the war, he'll learn n the fly

ES
BigRedDog
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12/27/2017  10:57 PM
Cartman718 wrote:Now do you guys see why we need to start frank and Dotson until THJr comes back?
What is the point of not starting them? Might as well let them gain experience

No way. Frank is like a deer in the headlights. Plays scared out there. Dotson maybe for a backup but starting??? No way

Briggs-- Frank is 2 yrs away from being 2 years away
nyknickzingis
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12/27/2017  11:00 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/27/2017  11:02 PM
BigRedDog wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:Now do you guys see why we need to start frank and Dotson until THJr comes back?
What is the point of not starting them? Might as well let them gain experience

No way. Frank is like a deer in the headlights. Plays scared out there. Dotson maybe for a backup but starting??? No way


To me it's ok if they don't start
But playing guys who won't be here in a year or year and half for young draft picks is insane

My case for Frank to start is so he sees the highest level of talent and also gets to play with Kristaps to develop chemistry there ... but it's ok if he doesn't start

What irks me is Willy getting DNP CD most of the season.
Dotson getting no run.

Come on ... these guys are your draft picks. You need to prioritize their development. Even 8-10 minutes consistently a game is something. Horny is running this team like they have to win a ring this year. And they likely end up with 35 wins and no playoffs. Much rather lose more games and develop the draft picks. You never know they maybe get better as the season moves on.

CrushAlot
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12/27/2017  11:12 PM
nyknickzingis wrote:
BigRedDog wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:Now do you guys see why we need to start frank and Dotson until THJr comes back?
What is the point of not starting them? Might as well let them gain experience

No way. Frank is like a deer in the headlights. Plays scared out there. Dotson maybe for a backup but starting??? No way


To me it's ok if they don't start
But playing guys who won't be here in a year or year and half for young draft picks is insane

My case for Frank to start is so he sees the highest level of talent and also gets to play with Kristaps to develop chemistry there ... but it's ok if he doesn't start

What irks me is Willy getting DNP CD most of the season.
Dotson getting no run.

Come on ... these guys are your draft picks. You need to prioritize their development. Even 8-10 minutes consistently a game is something.

Frank is having a hard enough time going against second unit guys in my opinion. Hornacek has received a lot of compliments on his development and managing if Frank's minutes. I am not sure how you play guys ahead of others if they don't earn their minutes. That would destroy a team/locker room in my opinion. I think the Knicks are doing the right thing with Dotson, he gets spot minutes but also gets run with the g league team. That is what successful teams often do when they develop second round picks.
You playTrey Burke... Wally Szcerbiak
knicks1248
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12/27/2017  11:18 PM
nyknickzingis wrote:
BigRedDog wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:Now do you guys see why we need to start frank and Dotson until THJr comes back?
What is the point of not starting them? Might as well let them gain experience

No way. Frank is like a deer in the headlights. Plays scared out there. Dotson maybe for a backup but starting??? No way


To me it's ok if they don't start
But playing guys who won't be here in a year or year and half for young draft picks is insane

My case for Frank to start is so he sees the highest level of talent and also gets to play with Kristaps to develop chemistry there ... but it's ok if he doesn't start

What irks me is Willy getting DNP CD most of the season.
Dotson getting no run.

Come on ... these guys are your draft picks. You need to prioritize their development. Even 8-10 minutes consistently a game is something. Horny is running this team like they have to win a ring this year. And they likely end up with 35 wins and no playoffs. Much rather lose more games and develop the draft picks. You never know they maybe get better as the season moves on.

The object is to build a winning culture, not play 15 guys a night to see if they can play. No team in the league plays more than 9 or 10 guys a game, and they are usually the same 9 or 10 every night unless injury, thats how you build chemistry.

You earned minutes in this league, and the way baker has played, he earned a spot on the bench, right next to willy

ES
Knixkik
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12/27/2017  11:26 PM
nyknickzingis wrote:No hate for Kanter
I just think his value is overrated on this board
He does not make the team better on either end
Advanced stats show the team plays better without him

I love his toughness and attitude but there was a reason OKC brought him off the bench.
Playoff contenders will not start guys like Kanter IMO
He's a great instant energy offense big

He gets the team a ton of extra possessions and that's worth its weight in gold. The best teams each year are always good rebounding teams and he's one of the best.

CrushAlot
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12/27/2017  11:36 PM
Knixkik wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:No hate for Kanter
I just think his value is overrated on this board
He does not make the team better on either end
Advanced stats show the team plays better without him

I love his toughness and attitude but there was a reason OKC brought him off the bench.
Playoff contenders will not start guys like Kanter IMO
He's a great instant energy offense big

He gets the team a ton of extra possessions and that's worth its weight in gold. The best teams each year are always good rebounding teams and he's one of the best.

Agree. He is fourth in offensive rebounding. The three guys ahead of him all make at least 22 mil.
You playTrey Burke... Wally Szcerbiak
Cartman718
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12/28/2017  12:20 AM
BigRedDog wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:Now do you guys see why we need to start frank and Dotson until THJr comes back?
What is the point of not starting them? Might as well let them gain experience

No way. Frank is like a deer in the headlights. Plays scared out there. Dotson maybe for a backup but starting??? No way

Would you rather give McDermott and LT starting mins until THJr comes back? or is Dotson going to be part of the future behind Timmy?

Nixluva is posting triangle screen grabs, even when nobody asks - Fishmike. LOL So are we going to reference that thread like the bible now? "The thread of Wroten Page 14 post 9" - EnySpree
Zebo13
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12/28/2017  12:34 AM
We are playing the right way to win on the road. Last two road games we barely lost, a far cry from our road woes a few weeks ago. Hustle, defense, KP stepping up. Just haven’t been getting WIDE OPEN 3’s to drop. Opponents making contested 3’s while we miss open ones and still right in it. McDermot needs to get his shot together or we might as well cut him. LT kept us in this thing by blanketing Mirotic. Even though we lost we still scrapped our way to almost winning with extremely bad luck overall. These last two road games against hot teams give me confidence going into this road stretch.
Jmpasq
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12/28/2017  7:15 AM
nyknickzingis wrote:I think the way Porzingis plays you have to get multiple double threats around him
Players equally competent at passing and shooting

The team we have around him right now is full of guys good at one but not the other skill.

Can shoot - Lee, McD
Can pass not shoot - Baker, Frank, Jack
Can score but not really anything else on O - Kanter, Beasley

Good teams have a couple of players capable to be double or triple threats from the perimeter

To his credit Hardaway was playing like a quality double threat before he got hurt.

When Frank starts to make some shots I think he can be a double threat player ... guy that can be a passer a pnr guy or a spot up shooter ... same for THJ. Rest of the team ... nope. CLee needs to come off the bench.

We are going nowhere till we get a swiss army knife SF

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Game Thread 12/27: Calling Chicago's BULLS***

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