Gudris wrote:Defense

Same thing said about Kanter

nyknickzingis wrote:Think he is a valued player around the league based on last season.
However the Knicks are in win now mode and they can't mortgage wins for the sake of player development. It's for this reason Frank does not start and same reason we see vets starting and getting big minutes.

If we were re-building, Willy, Frank and KP would be starting.
However also maybe if we're later in the season and out of the playoffs, we'll begin to shift towards that, give Willy and Frank more chances.

I personally would have brought Kanter off the bench, start Willy, and started Frank too. I think the three of them need that reps and playing time together (third being KP obviously). If for nothing else, you would see what you really have. Willy certainly won't be getting better sitting on the bench. He needs those reps. He needs playing time. He needs live action to learn the game.

I rather have started Willy, Frank and KP together, won 30 games, than to do what we're doing which is making a run for the playoffs, using vets and likely finishing 9 or 10 and just missing out. Those 10 extra losses would mean player development for Frank and Willy and also give the Knicks a better position in the draft.

What's the plan with Jack, Kanter and O'Quinn anyway? Say we finish the season with 41 wins. All three of them are going to command a big pay increase, and we should not be interested in paying any of them more than what they currently make. So maybe all 3 walk, and you've wasted a season on being 10 wins better with vets that likely leave.

I mean get it, tanking is bad for culture. But we wouldn't be tanking in playing Willy and Frank more minutes. We'd be doing player development and our backups would be quality NBA players like Kanter. There was alot of talk about Kanter being good for Porzingis, but we've seen Porzingis regress even with Kanter playing great. This is all on Porzingis. Porzingis can play like a MVP if he's healthy and he can be much worse if he's unhealthy.

Definitely not happy about Frank;s minutes/role and Willy's. I envisioned the two of them and KP starting this year. Perhaps if we're out of the playoff 8 in March, we do the right thing then.

nyknickzingis wrote:Think he is a valued player around the league based on last season.
However the Knicks are in win now mode and they can't mortgage wins for the sake of player development. It's for this reason Frank does not start and same reason we see vets starting and getting big minutes.

If we were re-building, Willy, Frank and KP would be starting.
However also maybe if we're later in the season and out of the playoffs, we'll begin to shift towards that, give Willy and Frank more chances.

I personally would have brought Kanter off the bench, start Willy, and started Frank too. I think the three of them need that reps and playing time together (third being KP obviously). If for nothing else, you would see what you really have. Willy certainly won't be getting better sitting on the bench. He needs those reps. He needs playing time. He needs live action to learn the game.

I rather have started Willy, Frank and KP together, won 30 games, than to do what we're doing which is making a run for the playoffs, using vets and likely finishing 9 or 10 and just missing out. Those 10 extra losses would mean player development for Frank and Willy and also give the Knicks a better position in the draft.

What's the plan with Jack, Kanter and O'Quinn anyway? Say we finish the season with 41 wins. All three of them are going to command a big pay increase, and we should not be interested in paying any of them more than what they currently make. So maybe all 3 walk, and you've wasted a season on being 10 wins better with vets that likely leave.

I mean get it, tanking is bad for culture. But we wouldn't be tanking in playing Willy and Frank more minutes. We'd be doing player development and our backups would be quality NBA players like Kanter. There was alot of talk about Kanter being good for Porzingis, but we've seen Porzingis regress even with Kanter playing great. This is all on Porzingis. Porzingis can play like a MVP if he's healthy and he can be much worse if he's unhealthy.

Definitely not happy about Frank;s minutes/role and Willy's. I envisioned the two of them and KP starting this year. Perhaps if we're out of the playoff 8 in March, we do the right thing then.

An intelligent approach to team management. Problem is the playoff starved want immediate turnaround. Ain’t gonna happen as we ain’t going 10-10 on a 16 Of 20 on the road trip. We will be fortunate to go 6-14 and we would be 7 under at that point.

nyknickzingis wrote:Think he is a valued player around the league based on last season.
However the Knicks are in win now mode and they can't mortgage wins for the sake of player development. It's for this reason Frank does not start and same reason we see vets starting and getting big minutes.

If we were re-building, Willy, Frank and KP would be starting.
However also maybe if we're later in the season and out of the playoffs, we'll begin to shift towards that, give Willy and Frank more chances.

I personally would have brought Kanter off the bench, start Willy, and started Frank too. I think the three of them need that reps and playing time together (third being KP obviously). If for nothing else, you would see what you really have. Willy certainly won't be getting better sitting on the bench. He needs those reps. He needs playing time. He needs live action to learn the game.

I rather have started Willy, Frank and KP together, won 30 games, than to do what we're doing which is making a run for the playoffs, using vets and likely finishing 9 or 10 and just missing out. Those 10 extra losses would mean player development for Frank and Willy and also give the Knicks a better position in the draft.

What's the plan with Jack, Kanter and O'Quinn anyway? Say we finish the season with 41 wins. All three of them are going to command a big pay increase, and we should not be interested in paying any of them more than what they currently make. So maybe all 3 walk, and you've wasted a season on being 10 wins better with vets that likely leave.

I mean get it, tanking is bad for culture. But we wouldn't be tanking in playing Willy and Frank more minutes. We'd be doing player development and our backups would be quality NBA players like Kanter. There was alot of talk about Kanter being good for Porzingis, but we've seen Porzingis regress even with Kanter playing great. This is all on Porzingis. Porzingis can play like a MVP if he's healthy and he can be much worse if he's unhealthy.

Definitely not happy about Frank;s minutes/role and Willy's. I envisioned the two of them and KP starting this year. Perhaps if we're out of the playoff 8 in March, we do the right thing then.

Tanking in my opinion comes as a direct opportunity rather than making a conscious choice....Philly made a conscious choice and the sucked win and was a laughingstock....now as the gems start to pan out Hinkie is labeled as..."maybe he was on to something" type genius....fact is the whole franchise rests on a player that has been in the league 3 years and played less than a full season....if Embiid goes down the franchise is shot to hell....the thing is without Embiid and Simmons playing like they are the stain of so many years of tanking would be hard to erase....but even then their houses foundation is on shifting sand...

If we were 7-15...ok the opportunity for development=tanking is there, but the road that we are taking I believe will payoff off more than a draft pick....think of San Tone the year Robinson got hurt they tanked and got Tim....their franchise was already used to winning...had a culture of winning and needed that piece to put them over the top....draft or free agency....had Tim gone to Boston...I believe he would have still been a great player....but that Boston team was not winning 5 rings....

This team needs to learn how to win in all of winnings different facets and scenarios....home..road...comeback wins...key players out...etc...mind you winning in the reg season is different from winning in the post season....you cannot win in the playoffs if you do not learn how to win the reg season...

I would love a top 5 pick...,but KP is doing the right thing to hold the franchises feet to the fire to push for playoffs at least until it is clear that they cannot make it....this is how teams learn how to win..baby steps....look at GS....they lost for decades...then they had some good playoff runs with captain jack....had a lull then...mark Jackson came and move the talent they accumulated (curry etc) to the next level and Kerr took it up another notch....we need incremental learning not tear down.....teams tear down purposely to get players like KP...Embiid..Simmons....and even that is not entirely promised...

The Willy issue will be solved...it is tricky but will be solved....I would not move him this year

CrushAlot wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:Think he is a valued player around the league based on last season.
However the Knicks are in win now mode and they can't mortgage wins for the sake of player development. It's for this reason Frank does not start and same reason we see vets starting and getting big minutes.

If we were re-building, Willy, Frank and KP would be starting.
However also maybe if we're later in the season and out of the playoffs, we'll begin to shift towards that, give Willy and Frank more chances.

I personally would have brought Kanter off the bench, start Willy, and started Frank too. I think the three of them need that reps and playing time together (third being KP obviously). If for nothing else, you would see what you really have. Willy certainly won't be getting better sitting on the bench. He needs those reps. He needs playing time. He needs live action to learn the game.

I rather have started Willy, Frank and KP together, won 30 games, than to do what we're doing which is making a run for the playoffs, using vets and likely finishing 9 or 10 and just missing out. Those 10 extra losses would mean player development for Frank and Willy and also give the Knicks a better position in the draft.

What's the plan with Jack, Kanter and O'Quinn anyway? Say we finish the season with 41 wins. All three of them are going to command a big pay increase, and we should not be interested in paying any of them more than what they currently make. So maybe all 3 walk, and you've wasted a season on being 10 wins better with vets that likely leave.

I mean get it, tanking is bad for culture. But we wouldn't be tanking in playing Willy and Frank more minutes. We'd be doing player development and our backups would be quality NBA players like Kanter. There was alot of talk about Kanter being good for Porzingis, but we've seen Porzingis regress even with Kanter playing great. This is all on Porzingis. Porzingis can play like a MVP if he's healthy and he can be much worse if he's unhealthy.

Definitely not happy about Frank;s minutes/role and Willy's. I envisioned the two of them and KP starting this year. Perhaps if we're out of the playoff 8 in March, we do the right thing then.

I am not sure what is happening in practice but Willy is the 4th string center. He definitely isn't earning his minutes and hasn't looked that great when he has gotten them. Kanter has been awesome and KP is much more effective with a Kanter/Lopez type at center. It seems a bit funny the day after a guy gets 30 and 20 to say you would have him coming off of the bench. I think the Knicks see Kanter as a part of their young core and they will resign him. I do think there is a chance O'Quinn is moved at the deadline. The KNicks also could let him walk. He is a good player and brings a lot to the team but with Noah's deal on the books something has to give at the 5 spot. In regards to Frank, Hornacek has received a lot of compliments for how he is bringing him a long so far. I think he is doing the right thing with him. I wish the Knicks had a point guard that put pressure on the defense and made things easier on offense for the rest of the team but neither Jack or Frank are that type of player. Hopefully Hardaway is back soon because the weakness at the point is much more obvious when he is out.

What did the RoLo KP team do anyway?
What's so impressive about a 17-16 team that has a HUGE disparity in home and road games? If we had even number of home and road games right now we easily could be 13-19 and then what's everyone saying about keeping Kanter?

I really love the guy as a teammate and I think he makes a great backup on a contender. However I'm not giving him Amare money. If we are serious about a rebuild we must look to make Willy part of the rotation and give Frank more PT. We have to look to trade either OQuinn or Kanter by trade deadline.

nyknickzingis wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:Think he is a valued player around the league based on last season.
However the Knicks are in win now mode and they can't mortgage wins for the sake of player development. It's for this reason Frank does not start and same reason we see vets starting and getting big minutes.

If we were re-building, Willy, Frank and KP would be starting.
However also maybe if we're later in the season and out of the playoffs, we'll begin to shift towards that, give Willy and Frank more chances.

I personally would have brought Kanter off the bench, start Willy, and started Frank too. I think the three of them need that reps and playing time together (third being KP obviously). If for nothing else, you would see what you really have. Willy certainly won't be getting better sitting on the bench. He needs those reps. He needs playing time. He needs live action to learn the game.

I rather have started Willy, Frank and KP together, won 30 games, than to do what we're doing which is making a run for the playoffs, using vets and likely finishing 9 or 10 and just missing out. Those 10 extra losses would mean player development for Frank and Willy and also give the Knicks a better position in the draft.

What's the plan with Jack, Kanter and O'Quinn anyway? Say we finish the season with 41 wins. All three of them are going to command a big pay increase, and we should not be interested in paying any of them more than what they currently make. So maybe all 3 walk, and you've wasted a season on being 10 wins better with vets that likely leave.

I mean get it, tanking is bad for culture. But we wouldn't be tanking in playing Willy and Frank more minutes. We'd be doing player development and our backups would be quality NBA players like Kanter. There was alot of talk about Kanter being good for Porzingis, but we've seen Porzingis regress even with Kanter playing great. This is all on Porzingis. Porzingis can play like a MVP if he's healthy and he can be much worse if he's unhealthy.

Definitely not happy about Frank;s minutes/role and Willy's. I envisioned the two of them and KP starting this year. Perhaps if we're out of the playoff 8 in March, we do the right thing then.

I am not sure what is happening in practice but Willy is the 4th string center. He definitely isn't earning his minutes and hasn't looked that great when he has gotten them. Kanter has been awesome and KP is much more effective with a Kanter/Lopez type at center. It seems a bit funny the day after a guy gets 30 and 20 to say you would have him coming off of the bench. I think the Knicks see Kanter as a part of their young core and they will resign him. I do think there is a chance O'Quinn is moved at the deadline. The KNicks also could let him walk. He is a good player and brings a lot to the team but with Noah's deal on the books something has to give at the 5 spot. In regards to Frank, Hornacek has received a lot of compliments for how he is bringing him a long so far. I think he is doing the right thing with him. I wish the Knicks had a point guard that put pressure on the defense and made things easier on offense for the rest of the team but neither Jack or Frank are that type of player. Hopefully Hardaway is back soon because the weakness at the point is much more obvious when he is out.

Look i love Kanter
However advanced stats aren't as pretty as some may think
He is a -5.1 with regards to on/off
He does not make us better with Porzingis starting

What did the RoLo KP team do anyway?
What's so impressive about a 17-16 team that has a HUGE disparity in home and road games? If we had even number of home and road games right now we easily could be 13-19 and then what's everyone saying about keeping Kanter?

I really love the guy as a teammate and I think he makes a great backup on a contender. However I'm not giving him Amare money. If we are serious about a rebuild we must look to make Willy part of the rotation and give Frank more PT. We have to look to trade either OQuinn or Kanter by trade deadline.

Hornacek knows Steve Mills and GM Scott Perry contradicted themselves after labeling Hernangomez part of the team’s “young core.”

“That was all before the trade for Enes Kanter. And they’ve always said, ‘Play the guys who earned it,’” Hornacek said. “(The Kanter trade) added another center into the mix. It’s a tough spot, but that’s when guys step up. I think Willy will.”

wargames wrote:Why the heck are we in win mode again?

Not win now...learn how to win mode