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Kp could really benefit talking more w Dirk
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BRIGGS
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12/23/2017  8:46 AM
I know people either did not agree with me that I didn't think kp could be counted on as a franchise player for several reasons-- but I maintain it's true.

What I really believe kp needs to do is so simplify his game like Dirk-- cut down on the 3 point shots and also make sure he is acutely aware of passing the ball more.

I think moving a bit closer to the basket and passing more will cut down on injuries and inefficient ISO type play. He needs to set a minimum target of 3 assist per game snd 5-6 post ups. Some of that early season success has gone to his head. He doesn't need to be that player-- he needs to be a smarter more efficient one. He needs to lower the odds of him putting himself in jeopardy of injury by taking away awkward movement plays. Keep it simple get good position don't force anything and pass the ball

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nyknickzingis
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12/23/2017  9:02 AM    LAST EDITED: 12/23/2017  9:07 AM
Thing with KP I see, he is more talented than Dirk, and Dirk himself even has said so.
If Dirk could drive, handle the ball and do the things KP can at 7'3, I think he would play a little different too.

KP seems to model his game around Kobe quite a bit. Melo, as well. As much as we may not like it, when you see him talk, he often mentions both players. He's basically become more of a pure scorer and it's a little worrisome. I do think he is also very early in his career and still very immature as a basketball player. If you would go look at some great wings in their third year, they would be playing similar.

What we want from KP is still a few years away. I don't think he needs to be Dirk. As crazy as it sounds, his talent level is more, and he should be trying to be more. Dirk never had a few seasons where he averaged 30+ points a night. With KP's abilities if he stays healthy and keeps working hard in the summer, you see it all over him that he can be that kind of dominant scorer. He's relentless and has the mismatch to keep attacking and getting good shots of.

He is slowly figuring it out. Two years ago almost no post game. Last year little and inconsistent used. This year he has a post game. It's very good. He needs to rely on it more. Cut down on three pointers. Agree. It will take him some time to figure this out. I do agree with you completely that KP can easily take a few shots less and work for some better shots. He'll draw more fouls and free throws. He'll be more effective. But look at where he is today vs last year and 2 years ago. It's been great improvement. He needs to keep it up. The best thing we ever did was get rid of Melo around KP. KP may actually learn what team basketball and playing the right way is. It's real good that he has a PG like Frank. Frank is very high IQ and when Frank gets better and starts next to him, I bet you anything Frank won't let him just keep taking iso bad shots from way out. Frank won't get him the ball in those spots, he'll run a better play. Mark my words on that, that's Frank's real value on offense.

EnySpree
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12/23/2017  9:30 AM
Not Dirk.... Kevin Garnett. He gets abused by the defense because he's predictable. It kills me when KP is banging guys posting up 15 feet away From the basket. He's 7'3".... he should not be working so hard. I'm 5'10"... if a guy 5'3"-5'5" is guarding me I'm having my way like they aren't even there. That should be KP to these 6'10"-6'8" guys
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90sKnicks
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12/23/2017  10:32 AM
nyknickzingis wrote:Thing with KP I see, he is more talented than Dirk, and Dirk himself even has said so.
If Dirk could drive, handle the ball and do the things KP can at 7'3, I think he would play a little too

Huh? KP can handle the ball? Every time he dribbles the ball for more than 3 seconds it's a turnover. He's a similar shooter to Dirk and is 4 inches taller so that's a plus and is probably faster and more athletic than Dirk. But KP is one of the worst dribblers in the league and his footwork is awkward to say the least.

Vmart
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12/23/2017  12:10 PM
One thing that gets me is seeing a 7’3 Basketball player camped outside and pulling down a whopping 6 rebounds a game. Very disappointing to see him beg for the ball in a post up position 15-20 feet from the hoop. When was the last time KP got a alley oops I can only remember the one from Frank which was like forever ago.

They have to get KP moving without the ball and get him better looks at the basket.

Gudris
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12/23/2017  1:02 PM
Vmart wrote:One thing that gets me is seeing a 7’3 Basketball player camped outside and pulling down a whopping 6 rebounds a game. Very disappointing to see him beg for the ball in a post up position 15-20 feet from the hoop. When was the last time KP got a alley oops I can only remember the one from Frank which was like forever ago.

They have to get KP moving without the ball and get him better looks at the basket.


agree
Knickoftime
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12/23/2017  1:24 PM
BRIGGS wrote:I know people either did not agree with me that I didn't think kp could be counted on as a franchise player for several reasons-- but I maintain it's true.

You also still maintain Hernangomez is the better long-term player?

martin
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12/23/2017  1:36 PM
BRIGGS wrote:I know people either did not agree with me that I didn't think kp could be counted on as a franchise player for several reasons-- but I maintain it's true.

What I really believe kp needs to do is so simplify his game like Dirk-- cut down on the 3 point shots and also make sure he is acutely aware of passing the ball more.

I think moving a bit closer to the basket and passing more will cut down on injuries and inefficient ISO type play. He needs to set a minimum target of 3 assist per game snd 5-6 post ups. Some of that early season success has gone to his head. He doesn't need to be that player-- he needs to be a smarter more efficient one. He needs to lower the odds of him putting himself in jeopardy of injury by taking away awkward movement plays. Keep it simple get good position don't force anything and pass the ball

Most just remember this: http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=57160 "I might be in minority but I like Willy g more than KP" and then kinda laugh and ignore the rest.

To be sure, KP is already doing all of the things you think you are asking him to do. This is a good starting point to see them: https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/porzikr01.html

KP absolutely needs to work on his passing, but first you establish yourself as offense force and then you work on passing when you see the double teams? It's a process, right?

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Vmart
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12/23/2017  1:44 PM
I see a guy in KP that has been exposed to someone like Melo. A bigger version of Melo. Efficiency be damned.
EnySpree
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12/23/2017  1:56 PM
Gudris wrote:
Vmart wrote:One thing that gets me is seeing a 7’3 Basketball player camped outside and pulling down a whopping 6 rebounds a game. Very disappointing to see him beg for the ball in a post up position 15-20 feet from the hoop. When was the last time KP got a alley oops I can only remember the one from Frank which was like forever ago.

They have to get KP moving without the ball and get him better looks at the basket.


agree

KP needs to get better first.... KP has no moves unless he's open. He does well that way, but when asked to do something with the ball he can't do anything. The defense owns him. They know he wants to fade away. He has no other move.

Now when you say you want alley oops and get KP moving.... just say you want to see him in constant pick and rolls like Amare stoudamire. There's more to the game than getting big men alley oops and kicking out to 3pt shooters. There's a whole game of basketball missing. Kp himself needs to get better. The Knicks can't rely on simply trying to get KP to do anything. That's roster suicide. We need to get more help for the team not KP

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Nalod
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12/23/2017  2:24 PM
KP is truly blessed he has us to help him.

“KP needs to.....”

KP: Ring ring
Dirk: UniCorn! MY snitzel!
KP: Briggs said I we should talk. You see the video I sent you.
Dirk: yeah. I’m sitting with Hakeem too!
KP: What Should I do?
Dirk: Briggs said to call me?
KP: Yeah, he is truly a wise man! He can see the future.
Dirk: Oh, he the guy who said Willy is better than you long term!
KP: I love Willy.
Dirk: Wonder what he thought of Tractor Traylor (RIP!)
KP: I’m calling.
Dirk: You are so much better than I was at 22!
KP: aw shucks! That’s nice.
Dirk: I was also drunk half the time! Damn near married a felon women!!
KP: But not a tranny, right?
Dirk: I did get blasted and blew Nash one night, hey, we experimented!
KP: and they call me the Unicorn!!! LOL
Dirk: OK, Tell Briggs we talked, and Remember Phil said to take less threes.
KP: yeah, Coach wanted me to take it easy in Detroit.
Dirk: Does Briggs know, does he talk to your coaches or just reacts to what he sees and things that the future?
KP: You sound like Nalod!
Dirk: did he tell you to call?
KP: Naw, he said you tell me to piss off.
Dirk: I am.

Knicks1248: 1. Dolan should be more involved! 2. Why would any knick fan want pick 8, when that spot has a history of producing marginal NBA taken. (He prefers pick 9th instead)
knicks1248
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12/23/2017  3:33 PM
Jh has to mix up the rotation a little, KP is force to play the perimeter a lot because of 3 things.

1)not enough penetration from our pgs, defenses don't even respect our PnR because our pg's aren't beating anyone to the basket. So our Pnr's become KP posting up from 15 ft away trying to take advantage of a miss match.

2)kanter in the middle telling his teammates to shoot i'll grab the boards, same with KOQ, and neither can stretch the floor, so kp is force t shoot jumpers,or ISO's on clear outs

3)Our pg's and wings dont run (especially with THJ out) enough for this offense..

It's all boils down to KP having the right pg and big around him, just like he was with melo

ES
nyknickzingis
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12/24/2017  9:46 AM    LAST EDITED: 12/24/2017  9:51 AM
KP has no moves lol
Like you got to love NY fans.
One day he's unstoppable and a MVP.
Next he's got no moves.

KP has many 1 on 1 moves now. He's able to post up and create his shots with ease now.
He's been injured and since his in/out of the lineup stretch he has started to lose his shooting touch. This is quite normal. Without Tim, teams are also able to close in on him more because there is no high level shot creator next to him.

What KP is doing wrong is settling for some bad shots.
WHat he is doing right, is still taking the shots.

He has the right mindset. He just hasn't matured enough to know what and where he should be attacking from all the time. This comes from a few years of being the go to guy. This is KP"s first year as that guy. It will take him a year or two to settle in and adjust and pick his spots better.

Can't forget that at season's start if I told you KP would average 25 points a night as the man and the team would be .500 or better, you would all have loved if that were coming true. We've got a guy here playing Melo's role with far better impact and he's also one of the leading rim protectors in the league.

As for his handles, I disagree, he has very good handles for a 7'3 guy. It should not be his bread and butter, but he absolutely does things that Dirk at 22 years old could not do. He's more talented than Dirk, even if that doesn't mean he'll be better than Dirk. Talent wise there isn't a single thing KP shouldn't be able to if he focuses on it. It's all about time, maturity and the big H. Health.

Dirk also played his prime in an era where the 3 point shot and speed of the game was far different than now. It's a different league in 2017 than it is 2003. If you had a 22 year old Dirk right now in the league, I think he shoots more 3 pointers and also plays more from the perimeter than he did in 2003. It's just the way the league is. I agree KP could learn a ton from Dirk when it comes to smarts and how to attack from the middle of the key and in closer to the basket situations (as well just being a smart player) but it's also different times right now. The 3 point shot is vital and KP should be looking to make and take that shot. He just shouldn't be launching them up in isolations and heat checks as much as he can at times. Get those out of his game ASAP.

GustavBahler
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12/24/2017  9:51 AM
KP has an all around game, has to do a better job of knowing when to go to a certain part of it. Needs a PG who will get on his case when KP relies on one aspect of his game too much, like outside shooting. Frank might be that guy eventually.
nyknickzingis
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12/24/2017  9:53 AM
GustavBahler wrote:KP has an all around game, has to do a better job of knowing when to go to a certain part of it. Needs a PG who will get on his case when KP relies on one aspect of his game too much, like outside shooting. Frank might be that guy eventually.

The thing about Frank or a real PG, they'll read the defense and get KP the ball in his stronger spots. THe offense won't bog down to isolations or players getting the ball in the wrong spots. This is the huge value of a good real PG. We sometimes get this when Jack plays well or Frank steps up. We don't always get it. When we do, it will help everyone, especially KP.
Vmart
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12/24/2017  10:57 AM
EnySpree wrote:
Gudris wrote:
Vmart wrote:One thing that gets me is seeing a 7’3 Basketball player camped outside and pulling down a whopping 6 rebounds a game. Very disappointing to see him beg for the ball in a post up position 15-20 feet from the hoop. When was the last time KP got a alley oops I can only remember the one from Frank which was like forever ago.

They have to get KP moving without the ball and get him better looks at the basket.


agree

KP needs to get better first.... KP has no moves unless he's open. He does well that way, but when asked to do something with the ball he can't do anything. The defense owns him. They know he wants to fade away. He has no other move.

Now when you say you want alley oops and get KP moving.... just say you want to see him in constant pick and rolls like Amare stoudamire. There's more to the game than getting big men alley oops and kicking out to 3pt shooters. There's a whole game of basketball missing. Kp himself needs to get better. The Knicks can't rely on simply trying to get KP to do anything. That's roster suicide. We need to get more help for the team not KP

KP can benefit from an Amare type game. His efficiency would go sky high. It doesn’t mean he has to give up threes or post ups. KPs game needs an aggressiveness that going to the basket brings and it will draw more fouls. Yes I’m all for pick and roll at the top of the key and cutting to the basket for easy buckets.

The best thing for the Knicks would be to get KP away from the imitation of Melo. Hell even OKC has had enough of it.

reub
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12/24/2017  6:58 PM
KP needs to talk to Kareem, not Dirk.
Nalod
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12/25/2017  8:52 AM
Briggs just needs to say it:
KP should call Briggs.
Knicks1248: 1. Dolan should be more involved! 2. Why would any knick fan want pick 8, when that spot has a history of producing marginal NBA taken. (He prefers pick 9th instead)
Jmpasq
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12/25/2017  11:05 AM
reub wrote:KP needs to talk to Kareem, not Dirk.

Yep we need our Ben Simmons. Someone to regulate KP's touches. KP can't create for others so he shouldnt touch the ball the most. He needs someone to get him the ball where he is most effective. Get his shooting over 50%. Ideally 30 minutes a night where he can be aggressive. Let Beasley get the other 15-20 minutes.

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BRIGGS
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12/26/2017  1:58 AM
Jmpasq wrote:
reub wrote:KP needs to talk to Kareem, not Dirk.

Yep we need our Ben Simmons. Someone to regulate KP's touches. KP can't create for others so he shouldnt touch the ball the most. He needs someone to get him the ball where he is most effective. Get his shooting over 50%. Ideally 30 minutes a night where he can be aggressive. Let Beasley get the other 15-20 minutes.

I'm not a Simmons guy-- boy is he limited. As far as kp goes-- he's hoing to make enes kanter 115 mm$. All enes has to do is wait for kp to get the basketball and go to the hoop.

Kp has to think the game a bit more -- he believes he's Kevin Durant and he's not. He can be great but I'd love to start w consistently good . No way kp shouldn't be 50%. He needs more dunks lay ups put backs and 12 footers. Go get me 17 rebounds kp one game-- outback 3-4 of those -- he's predictable to take a bad shot right now .

Kp could really benefit talking more w Dirk

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