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Just for fun: Rookie re-draft so far...
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WaltLongmire
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12/22/2017  12:30 PM
Knixkik wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:Collins has been good. But Boston would take Markkenan over him.

Isaac just like Fox is still the strong long term potential prospect.

Wonder if the Suns would make Jackson available at the draft?

Is Markkenan a better prospect than Collins ? Collins seems like that athletic, rebounding, defending big that Boston needs.

Offensively, I would say yes...not sure about the other stuff, though.

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
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fishmike
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12/22/2017  12:50 PM
Am I biased? Of course. But lets reflect. What is the most important thing? Is it winning games?

Lets talk about skill. Lets talk about impact play. Lets talk about measuring a 19 year old against the best player on the best team in the conference when the game is on the line. Lets just watch this all together now:

For Frank to be playing this way at 19 years old 25ish games in his NBA career is nuts. Its just nuts. These arent highlight dunks, this is winning NBA games.

This is every bit as impressive as dropping 30. Frank's play this year late in games vs. elite players speaks for itself. People who think he doesnt have an offensive skill set are wrong, and that will play out over time also. He will be just fine scoring the ball in time. That is not his role now and great job by this staff in developing him this way.

Look at the video again. This kid is EVERY BIT the weapon that the scorers who are worshiped by the AAU chucking crowd. Frank is a greatest commodity. He makes others better and impacts the game without the ball in his hands. He's also getting better and better at running the offense and his passing regularly leads to hockey assists and great ball movement.

Mitchell looks great but he's playing a different position, and Frank has more size.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
WaltLongmire
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12/22/2017  12:51 PM
As is always the case...We might want to wait a few years before doing a redraft.

This is especially true in an era where players enter the league as young as they do. We took an 18 yr old kid in the draft, and many others were 19.

Impossible to factor in all the changes players might make in their respective games the next few years.

I thought the KP draft was going to be a special one, yet in season 3 it does not look so special, and guys we thought would do well have fallen off the chart, even after showing promise that first year.

It is always an evolutionary process, and it's just too early to reach an informed final conclusion, but I think we picked up a really good kid who, though the least physically mature kid in the draft, was still able to guard Irving the way he did yesterday at times in an important and nationally televised game.

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
Knixkik
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12/22/2017  12:56 PM
WaltLongmire wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:Collins has been good. But Boston would take Markkenan over him.

Isaac just like Fox is still the strong long term potential prospect.

Wonder if the Suns would make Jackson available at the draft?

Is Markkenan a better prospect than Collins ? Collins seems like that athletic, rebounding, defending big that Boston needs.

Offensively, I would say yes...not sure about the other stuff, though.

Offensively no doubt, Markenan all day. He is probably going to be a better version of Ryan Anderson. But Collins reminds me of a Clint Capela type rim runner that can be plugged in at center and be a huge impact player for a long time.
Knixkik
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12/22/2017  1:00 PM
WaltLongmire wrote:As is always the case...We might want to wait a few years before doing a redraft.

This is especially true in an era where players enter the league as young as they do. We took an 18 yr old kid in the draft, and many others were 19.

Impossible to factor in all the changes players might make in their respective games the next few years.

I thought the KP draft was going to be a special one, yet in season 3 it does not look so special, and guys we thought would do well have fallen off the chart, even after showing promise that first year.

It is always an evolutionary process, and it's just too early to reach an informed final conclusion, but I think we picked up a really good kid who, though the least physically mature kid in the draft, was still able to guard Irving the way he did yesterday at times in an important and nationally televised game.


True you do have to wait awhile for a real redraft, this is just for fun. That being said, even though we have to give these guys time, we can tell a lot about them right away. We knew right away Porzingis had the chance to be special, and was a better prospect then Okafor or Russell. And we saw Booker and Turner impact their teams right away. Towns, Porzingis, Booker, and Turner being the top 4 players in that draft was clear almost right away. Things change of course, but we can tell a lot about these guys right away.
martin
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12/22/2017  1:02 PM

at the 21 second mark Kyrie starts his counter-move again Frank and just about at the 23 second mark Frank does this leg/knee lift thing to slow him down so he can't turn corner and get around Frank, never seen that before and I doubt it's legal but holy hell that was awesome

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fishmike
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12/22/2017  1:16 PM
martin wrote:

at the 21 second mark Kyrie starts his counter-move again Frank and just about at the 23 second mark Frank does this leg/knee lift thing to slow him down so he can't turn corner and get around Frank, never seen that before and I doubt it's legal but holy hell that was awesome


Martin... I know Im a Knick fan but I am baffled that more on this board dont see he how good he is and still think we passed on guys. Frank is so cerebral, so tough, never backs down and and he's got arms like a praying mantis.

For those guys who had comments on this athleticism... maybe keeping Kyrie on his hip is enough athleticism? Lord have mercy look at Frank's lateral quickness and his ability to stay lateral with Kyrie. At 19 this kid is special. I am just thrilled we got lucky yet again. This is going to be a top player. No doubts what so ever.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
newyorknewyork
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12/22/2017  1:17 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/22/2017  1:19 PM
Knixkik wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:Collins has been good. But Boston would take Markkenan over him.

Isaac just like Fox is still the strong long term potential prospect.

Wonder if the Suns would make Jackson available at the draft?

Is Markkenan a better prospect than Collins ? Collins seems like that athletic, rebounding, defending big that Boston needs.

Offensively, I would say yes...not sure about the other stuff, though.

Offensively no doubt, Markenan all day. He is probably going to be a better version of Ryan Anderson. But Collins reminds me of a Clint Capela type rim runner that can be plugged in at center and be a huge impact player for a long time.

Collins type of players are dime a dozen honestly. This past draft had a bunch of them. And there are even more coming out this coming draft.

Lauri's skill set this advanced is harder to find from that position. He also is a better reboumder then I thought he would be. I really thought he would be super soft non rebounding euro with no defense but had a nice jumper. Mostly based off the world tourny. He has shown to be a lot tougher then I was estimating. We played bot Chi and ATL. I saw Lauri take it to KP a good amount in a variety of ways. While I saw Collins only score by standing under the rim waiting for passes.

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WaltLongmire
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12/22/2017  1:39 PM
Knixkik wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:Collins has been good. But Boston would take Markkenan over him.

Isaac just like Fox is still the strong long term potential prospect.

Wonder if the Suns would make Jackson available at the draft?

Is Markkenan a better prospect than Collins ? Collins seems like that athletic, rebounding, defending big that Boston needs.

Offensively, I would say yes...not sure about the other stuff, though.

Offensively no doubt, Markenan all day. He is probably going to be a better version of Ryan Anderson. But Collins reminds me of a Clint Capela type rim runner that can be plugged in at center and be a huge impact player for a long time.


Sometimes it depends on how they fit in with a particular team, too.

With Kyrie you might like Markenan's 3pt ability on the kick-outs, but Collins is better on the pick and roll.

I think ultimately it will come down to whether Markenan can defend, something Collins is better at right now. If you look at value though, and the fact that one was picked 7th, and the other 19th, you might say Atlanta got the better value in some ways, but as always, time will tell.

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
WaltLongmire
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12/22/2017  1:44 PM
fishmike wrote:
martin wrote:

at the 21 second mark Kyrie starts his counter-move again Frank and just about at the 23 second mark Frank does this leg/knee lift thing to slow him down so he can't turn corner and get around Frank, never seen that before and I doubt it's legal but holy hell that was awesome


Martin... I know Im a Knick fan but I am baffled that more on this board dont see he how good he is and still think we passed on guys. Frank is so cerebral, so tough, never backs down and and he's got arms like a praying mantis.

For those guys who had comments on this athleticism... maybe keeping Kyrie on his hip is enough athleticism? Lord have mercy look at Frank's lateral quickness and his ability to stay lateral with Kyrie. At 19 this kid is special. I am just thrilled we got lucky yet again. This is going to be a top player. No doubts what so ever.


Might just be me...but are the refs allowing a little more contact this year? I've noticed it a lot this year, but don't watch enough non-Knicks games to really know if this is an NBA-wide thing. Not always the case, but still frequent enough to catch my eye.
EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
fishmike
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12/22/2017  2:19 PM
WaltLongmire wrote:
fishmike wrote:
martin wrote:

at the 21 second mark Kyrie starts his counter-move again Frank and just about at the 23 second mark Frank does this leg/knee lift thing to slow him down so he can't turn corner and get around Frank, never seen that before and I doubt it's legal but holy hell that was awesome


Martin... I know Im a Knick fan but I am baffled that more on this board dont see he how good he is and still think we passed on guys. Frank is so cerebral, so tough, never backs down and and he's got arms like a praying mantis.

For those guys who had comments on this athleticism... maybe keeping Kyrie on his hip is enough athleticism? Lord have mercy look at Frank's lateral quickness and his ability to stay lateral with Kyrie. At 19 this kid is special. I am just thrilled we got lucky yet again. This is going to be a top player. No doubts what so ever.


Might just be me...but are the refs allowing a little more contact this year? I've noticed it a lot this year, but don't watch enough non-Knicks games to really know if this is an NBA-wide thing. Not always the case, but still frequent enough to catch my eye.
there will be setbacks, adjustments, rolled ankles... I mean he's 19. He seems to be getting better every game, but its gonna be a long ride. The question is what is going to hold Frank back? What is his ceiling? I mean the coach already uses him like a closer, except instead of crunch time he plays the final 12. Frank takes and hits big shots. His passing is excellent and sets up easy buckets. He's got a lot to prove offensively like can he attack the basket and finish at this level (we saw it vs. peers)

Its his mentality and desire that make me comfortable in his future above all else. Kid wants to be great. He loves the game. He's team first, win first. Its tough to quantify for some because we just havent seen it. Maybe I am overreacting. Time will tell. I am comfortable with my reasoning. I see a package. The physical tools backed up by what you want between the ears. Knicks might finally have the culture to develop him also. Look at how Jeff has him in a position to succeed and help the team.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
BigDaddyG
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12/22/2017  3:13 PM
fishmike wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
fishmike wrote:
martin wrote:

at the 21 second mark Kyrie starts his counter-move again Frank and just about at the 23 second mark Frank does this leg/knee lift thing to slow him down so he can't turn corner and get around Frank, never seen that before and I doubt it's legal but holy hell that was awesome


Martin... I know Im a Knick fan but I am baffled that more on this board dont see he how good he is and still think we passed on guys. Frank is so cerebral, so tough, never backs down and and he's got arms like a praying mantis.

For those guys who had comments on this athleticism... maybe keeping Kyrie on his hip is enough athleticism? Lord have mercy look at Frank's lateral quickness and his ability to stay lateral with Kyrie. At 19 this kid is special. I am just thrilled we got lucky yet again. This is going to be a top player. No doubts what so ever.


Might just be me...but are the refs allowing a little more contact this year? I've noticed it a lot this year, but don't watch enough non-Knicks games to really know if this is an NBA-wide thing. Not always the case, but still frequent enough to catch my eye.
there will be setbacks, adjustments, rolled ankles... I mean he's 19. He seems to be getting better every game, but its gonna be a long ride. The question is what is going to hold Frank back? What is his ceiling? I mean the coach already uses him like a closer, except instead of crunch time he plays the final 12. Frank takes and hits big shots. His passing is excellent and sets up easy buckets. He's got a lot to prove offensively like can he attack the basket and finish at this level (we saw it vs. peers)

Its his mentality and desire that make me comfortable in his future above all else. Kid wants to be great. He loves the game. He's team first, win first. Its tough to quantify for some because we just havent seen it. Maybe I am overreacting. Time will tell. I am comfortable with my reasoning. I see a package. The physical tools backed up by what you want between the ears. Knicks might finally have the culture to develop him also. Look at how Jeff has him in a position to succeed and help the team.

I don't think you're overreacting. You saw it in Europe last year. He gradually got better as the season went on and he helped his team to an unexpected playoff run. He was their defensive stopper at 18 and his floor game got better. The kid is tough. We got a good one and he gives our backcourt good versatility. He's coachable and I'm sure we'll start seeing the offensive tools he displayed overseas as he gets more comfortable.

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
fishmike
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12/22/2017  3:27 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
fishmike wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
fishmike wrote:
martin wrote:

at the 21 second mark Kyrie starts his counter-move again Frank and just about at the 23 second mark Frank does this leg/knee lift thing to slow him down so he can't turn corner and get around Frank, never seen that before and I doubt it's legal but holy hell that was awesome


Martin... I know Im a Knick fan but I am baffled that more on this board dont see he how good he is and still think we passed on guys. Frank is so cerebral, so tough, never backs down and and he's got arms like a praying mantis.

For those guys who had comments on this athleticism... maybe keeping Kyrie on his hip is enough athleticism? Lord have mercy look at Frank's lateral quickness and his ability to stay lateral with Kyrie. At 19 this kid is special. I am just thrilled we got lucky yet again. This is going to be a top player. No doubts what so ever.


Might just be me...but are the refs allowing a little more contact this year? I've noticed it a lot this year, but don't watch enough non-Knicks games to really know if this is an NBA-wide thing. Not always the case, but still frequent enough to catch my eye.
there will be setbacks, adjustments, rolled ankles... I mean he's 19. He seems to be getting better every game, but its gonna be a long ride. The question is what is going to hold Frank back? What is his ceiling? I mean the coach already uses him like a closer, except instead of crunch time he plays the final 12. Frank takes and hits big shots. His passing is excellent and sets up easy buckets. He's got a lot to prove offensively like can he attack the basket and finish at this level (we saw it vs. peers)

Its his mentality and desire that make me comfortable in his future above all else. Kid wants to be great. He loves the game. He's team first, win first. Its tough to quantify for some because we just havent seen it. Maybe I am overreacting. Time will tell. I am comfortable with my reasoning. I see a package. The physical tools backed up by what you want between the ears. Knicks might finally have the culture to develop him also. Look at how Jeff has him in a position to succeed and help the team.

I don't think you're overreacting. You saw it in Europe last year. He gradually got better as the season went on and he helped his team to an unexpected playoff run. He was their defensive stopper at 18 and his floor game got better. The kid is tough. We got a good one and he gives our backcourt good versatility. He's coachable and I'm sure we'll start seeing the offensive tools he displayed overseas as he gets more comfortable.

I really think so man... I dont understand why Dennis Smith gets ooohs and ahhhs for highlight dunks in meaningless blowouts but there are no oohs and aahs for our 19 year old out playing Kyrie Irving in the 4th qtr.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
BigDaddyG
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12/22/2017  3:50 PM
fishmike wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
fishmike wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
fishmike wrote:
martin wrote:

at the 21 second mark Kyrie starts his counter-move again Frank and just about at the 23 second mark Frank does this leg/knee lift thing to slow him down so he can't turn corner and get around Frank, never seen that before and I doubt it's legal but holy hell that was awesome


Martin... I know Im a Knick fan but I am baffled that more on this board dont see he how good he is and still think we passed on guys. Frank is so cerebral, so tough, never backs down and and he's got arms like a praying mantis.

For those guys who had comments on this athleticism... maybe keeping Kyrie on his hip is enough athleticism? Lord have mercy look at Frank's lateral quickness and his ability to stay lateral with Kyrie. At 19 this kid is special. I am just thrilled we got lucky yet again. This is going to be a top player. No doubts what so ever.


Might just be me...but are the refs allowing a little more contact this year? I've noticed it a lot this year, but don't watch enough non-Knicks games to really know if this is an NBA-wide thing. Not always the case, but still frequent enough to catch my eye.
there will be setbacks, adjustments, rolled ankles... I mean he's 19. He seems to be getting better every game, but its gonna be a long ride. The question is what is going to hold Frank back? What is his ceiling? I mean the coach already uses him like a closer, except instead of crunch time he plays the final 12. Frank takes and hits big shots. His passing is excellent and sets up easy buckets. He's got a lot to prove offensively like can he attack the basket and finish at this level (we saw it vs. peers)

Its his mentality and desire that make me comfortable in his future above all else. Kid wants to be great. He loves the game. He's team first, win first. Its tough to quantify for some because we just havent seen it. Maybe I am overreacting. Time will tell. I am comfortable with my reasoning. I see a package. The physical tools backed up by what you want between the ears. Knicks might finally have the culture to develop him also. Look at how Jeff has him in a position to succeed and help the team.

I don't think you're overreacting. You saw it in Europe last year. He gradually got better as the season went on and he helped his team to an unexpected playoff run. He was their defensive stopper at 18 and his floor game got better. The kid is tough. We got a good one and he gives our backcourt good versatility. He's coachable and I'm sure we'll start seeing the offensive tools he displayed overseas as he gets more comfortable.

I really think so man... I dont understand why Dennis Smith gets ooohs and ahhhs for highlight dunks in meaningless blowouts but there are no oohs and aahs for our 19 year old out playing Kyrie Irving in the 4th qtr.

It's like the media had trouble acknowledging us unless there's dysfunction lol Frank thoroughly outplayed Lonzo, but the storyline somehow became "Ball Has Decent Game Against Knicks." Even now, we're bombarded with stories about s#@t that took place three years ago. But the fact that our rookie, who was killed coming into the season, gets little mention is the killer. I get it, smaller markets resent us, and media trolls have to get their little digs in. But this is getting old.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
Ira
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12/22/2017  7:02 PM
Frank does more to help us win games than his numbers indicate.
Uptown
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12/22/2017  8:01 PM
Swishfm3 wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
Uptown wrote:
Swishfm3 wrote:If based on BPA, and the lakers don't trade D.Russell, then I agree with your top 2.

3. Boston - Kuzma
4. Phoenix - Ball
5. Kings - Fox
6. Orlando - Markannen
7. Chicago - D. Smith Jr.
8. NY - F. Ntilikina
9. Dallas - J. Isaac
10.Portland - J. Collins

If you are basing this on BPA, D. Mitchell would be a top 3 pick...

He didn't write it but you can assume he agrees with Mitchell and Tatum going 1-2

This.

I agree with Knixkik top 2 which is why I left it off

My bad...
BRIGGS
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12/23/2017  8:53 AM
Kuzma has to be moved to #1
Since they moved him to starter 4 games a go he's been an nba all atar


Also Jordan bell is very high. Forget numbers he's an impact player who is starting to break out on the best team

RIP Crushalot😞
Nalod
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12/23/2017  4:40 PM
BRIGGS wrote:Kuzma has to be moved to #1
Since they moved him to starter 4 games a go he's been an nba all atar


Also Jordan bell is very high. Forget numbers he's an impact player who is starting to break out on the best team

Oh no, not again!!!

Briggs watched the warriors and he was high.....
See's one guy with 4 allstars and thinks he the Guy.....
Now he freaking Basketball nostrodomus and we know why.....
Cuz he got high, cuz he got high, cuz he got Hiiiiigh...........
CrushAlot
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12/23/2017  6:34 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
fishmike wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
fishmike wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
fishmike wrote:
martin wrote:

at the 21 second mark Kyrie starts his counter-move again Frank and just about at the 23 second mark Frank does this leg/knee lift thing to slow him down so he can't turn corner and get around Frank, never seen that before and I doubt it's legal but holy hell that was awesome


Martin... I know Im a Knick fan but I am baffled that more on this board dont see he how good he is and still think we passed on guys. Frank is so cerebral, so tough, never backs down and and he's got arms like a praying mantis.

For those guys who had comments on this athleticism... maybe keeping Kyrie on his hip is enough athleticism? Lord have mercy look at Frank's lateral quickness and his ability to stay lateral with Kyrie. At 19 this kid is special. I am just thrilled we got lucky yet again. This is going to be a top player. No doubts what so ever.


Might just be me...but are the refs allowing a little more contact this year? I've noticed it a lot this year, but don't watch enough non-Knicks games to really know if this is an NBA-wide thing. Not always the case, but still frequent enough to catch my eye.
there will be setbacks, adjustments, rolled ankles... I mean he's 19. He seems to be getting better every game, but its gonna be a long ride. The question is what is going to hold Frank back? What is his ceiling? I mean the coach already uses him like a closer, except instead of crunch time he plays the final 12. Frank takes and hits big shots. His passing is excellent and sets up easy buckets. He's got a lot to prove offensively like can he attack the basket and finish at this level (we saw it vs. peers)

Its his mentality and desire that make me comfortable in his future above all else. Kid wants to be great. He loves the game. He's team first, win first. Its tough to quantify for some because we just havent seen it. Maybe I am overreacting. Time will tell. I am comfortable with my reasoning. I see a package. The physical tools backed up by what you want between the ears. Knicks might finally have the culture to develop him also. Look at how Jeff has him in a position to succeed and help the team.

I don't think you're overreacting. You saw it in Europe last year. He gradually got better as the season went on and he helped his team to an unexpected playoff run. He was their defensive stopper at 18 and his floor game got better. The kid is tough. We got a good one and he gives our backcourt good versatility. He's coachable and I'm sure we'll start seeing the offensive tools he displayed overseas as he gets more comfortable.

I really think so man... I dont understand why Dennis Smith gets ooohs and ahhhs for highlight dunks in meaningless blowouts but there are no oohs and aahs for our 19 year old out playing Kyrie Irving in the 4th qtr.

It's like the media had trouble acknowledging us unless there's dysfunction lol Frank thoroughly outplayed Lonzo, but the storyline somehow became "Ball Has Decent Game Against Knicks." Even now, we're bombarded with stories about s#@t that took place three years ago. But the fact that our rookie, who was killed coming into the season, gets little mention is the killer. I get it, smaller markets resent us, and media trolls have to get their little digs in. But this is getting old.
Somewhere, nba radio? they were saying Frank was the best rookie point guard in the Laker game. Ball gets incredible press. He isn't the best rookie on his team, Ingram has looked amazing at times as well and yet it seems to be all about Lonzo.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
CrushAlot
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12/23/2017  6:38 PM
Hoopshabit had Frank at #9 on the rookie ladder last week.
https://hoopshabit.com/2017/12/15/2017-18-nba-rookie-of-the-year-ladder-week-9-power-rankings/3/
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
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