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Unless there is a taker for Noah by deadline
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Knixkik
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12/10/2017  6:26 PM
BRIGGS wrote:We should see what we can get for Kanter.

We simply have too much $ allocated at 5. Open up the cap space--see if we can get a pick and ending contract

Lee Kanter Noah and Oquinn should all be firmly on the block as of game 25--were not winning crp--were 1-8 on the road and -7 H away for games played.

GS puts cheap C in place and gets great results--so does SA. We cant have 45mm at the C.

You have started a thread for this topic many times. You simply don't trade kanter because the previous president invested big money in noah.

AUTOADVERT
Cartman718
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12/10/2017  6:32 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/10/2017  6:33 PM
franco12 wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:We should see what we can get for Kanter.

We simply have too much $ allocated at 5. Open up the cap space--see if we can get a pick and ending contract

Lee Kanter Noah and Oquinn should all be firmly on the block as of game 25--were not winning crp--were 1-8 on the road and -7 H away for games played.

GS puts cheap C in place and gets great results--so does SA. We cant have 45mm at the C.

At the beginning of the season, I agreed 100%.

However, how do you trade Kanter if we are in the 8th seed, even in spite of our horrible play on the road- which will surely improve assuming we stay healthy?

A GM would be shot for suggesting that kind of move. Maybe if you are a small market team looking to cut costs- but not in the NBA and not in NYC.

Perry and Mills have clearly stated that they want to get away from the GSW mentality of small ball, so I dont think we'll be putting someone like McGee at starting center long term. Not until KP becomes a double digit rebounder anyway.

Nixluva is posting triangle screen grabs, even when nobody asks - Fishmike. LOL So are we going to reference that thread like the bible now? "The thread of Wroten Page 14 post 9" - EnySpree
Bonn1997
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12/10/2017  7:40 PM
meloshouldgo wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
knickscity wrote:KP doesn't have that hot start if Kanter wasn't there. Kanter actually is a future piece, Noah and Oquinn are not.

I'm not sure what to make of KP's hot start. I haven't looked at the #s carefully but I seem to remember him having great starts each year and then falling off. I'm not sure if it's a durability issue or just a coincidence.

The all around game that KP showed early in the season, isnt there. You're just the man to ask. How much less is he posting up, numbers wise? Because Im seeing a lot less of it. Looks like KP is reverting back to his old game, maybe out of habit.


That is a great question. I would love to know the numbers on that. I also think his elbow injury might have him avoiding contact a bit. He said earlier in the season that he needs surgery on his elbow. It's too bad because he bulked up this offseason. I would think surgery on his elbow would impede his offseason conditioning.

I don't have the numbers on that. A quick look at the #s makes it clear his game went way downhill right after he came back from the elbow injury, though. He was putting up 30 to 40 point games on like 15 to 20 shots before the injury. In the 7 games before the injury, he shot 85 for 156 (.545%). Since, he has shot 79 for 195 (.405%).

I really wonder if the organization is being impatient with his healing and is doing him long-term harm. Look at what an intelligent organization like the Rockets does: Chris Paul gets injured in game 1. They let him take a month off and he looks back to normal right away when he returns. They gave him time to fully heal. It didn't faze them that he missed 14 of the first 15 games. His long-term health is what really mattered. KP has multiple injuries and they gave him 1 game off. Then he comes back and looks like half the player he was.

interesting point about giving him time to just heal. I believe I read somewhere that Hardaway might have done further damage to his stress fracture playing through injuries.

Our management has always sucked when it comes to injuries - but I doubt KP would like to sit around as long as CP3 has. The age difference would account for why CP3 would welcome caution and KP would welcome indiscretion.


I guess that thinking didn't work out too well for us.
NardDogNation
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12/10/2017  8:39 PM
ekstarks94 wrote:Not trading Kanter unless he wants $$$$...which Perry will know beforehand...It says something that you have a player that takes pride in being a Knick...this is the whole reason for the culture change that Mills and Perry are embarking on...short of getting a top 5 or 101 pick I am not trading him...if you trade him it will be a salary match and you have to take some longterm dollars on.....for what a pick 15-30...no thanks...

So the fact that he can never play against the best teams in the league in the playoffs doesn't phase you? And you're willing to make a multi-year commitment to that?

BRIGGS
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12/10/2017  8:39 PM
NardDogNation wrote:I agree and think we should take the best available trades for Kanter and O'Quinn. As BRIGGS suggested, we should not be breaking the bank at the center position considering how irrelevant it has become. I understand that Kanter and O'Quinn might be two of the better players on the team but given the market realities, moving Joakim Noah would require an asset to move and Willy is too good a contract to ditch; not to mention that KP should be getting minutes at the position as well. If I had my way, I'd have Willy start, shift KP there when Willy sits and only play Noah if either of the aforementioned get into foul trouble.

I'll spend the money on Joel embiid otherwise I look at teams who have won the championship going back years now how have piece mealed the center position.

NardDogNation
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12/10/2017  8:42 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:I agree and think we should take the best available trades for Kanter and O'Quinn. As BRIGGS suggested, we should not be breaking the bank at the center position considering how irrelevant it has become. I understand that Kanter and O'Quinn might be two of the better players on the team but given the market realities, moving Joakim Noah would require an asset to move and Willy is too good a contract to ditch; not to mention that KP should be getting minutes at the position as well. If I had my way, I'd have Willy start, shift KP there when Willy sits and only play Noah if either of the aforementioned get into foul trouble.

I'll spend the money on Joel embiid otherwise I look at teams who have won the championship going back years now how have piece mealed the center position.

No other exceptions? Nikola Jokic intrigues me and I believe he'll be an UNRESTRICTED free agent. He and KP would be a dynamo combo on offense, IMO. Defense would scare me a little though.

BRIGGS
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12/10/2017  8:45 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/10/2017  8:49 PM
NardDogNation wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:I agree and think we should take the best available trades for Kanter and O'Quinn. As BRIGGS suggested, we should not be breaking the bank at the center position considering how irrelevant it has become. I understand that Kanter and O'Quinn might be two of the better players on the team but given the market realities, moving Joakim Noah would require an asset to move and Willy is too good a contract to ditch; not to mention that KP should be getting minutes at the position as well. If I had my way, I'd have Willy start, shift KP there when Willy sits and only play Noah if either of the aforementioned get into foul trouble.

I'll spend the money on Joel embiid otherwise I look at teams who have won the championship going back years now how have piece mealed the center position.

No other exceptions? Nikola Jokic intrigues me and I believe he'll be an UNRESTRICTED free agent. He and KP would be a dynamo combo on offense, IMO. Defense would scare me a little

In the last 7 years who was the best center in the finals?

NardDogNation
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12/10/2017  9:57 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:I agree and think we should take the best available trades for Kanter and O'Quinn. As BRIGGS suggested, we should not be breaking the bank at the center position considering how irrelevant it has become. I understand that Kanter and O'Quinn might be two of the better players on the team but given the market realities, moving Joakim Noah would require an asset to move and Willy is too good a contract to ditch; not to mention that KP should be getting minutes at the position as well. If I had my way, I'd have Willy start, shift KP there when Willy sits and only play Noah if either of the aforementioned get into foul trouble.

I'll spend the money on Joel embiid otherwise I look at teams who have won the championship going back years now how have piece mealed the center position.

No other exceptions? Nikola Jokic intrigues me and I believe he'll be an UNRESTRICTED free agent. He and KP would be a dynamo combo on offense, IMO. Defense would scare me a little

In the last 7 years who was the best center in the finals?

To be fair, LeBron James is all you really need to get to the Finals irrespective of talent. But I'd probably say Tim Duncan or Pau Gasol.

ekstarks94
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12/10/2017  10:43 PM
NardDogNation wrote:
ekstarks94 wrote:Not trading Kanter unless he wants $$$$...which Perry will know beforehand...It says something that you have a player that takes pride in being a Knick...this is the whole reason for the culture change that Mills and Perry are embarking on...short of getting a top 5 or 101 pick I am not trading him...if you trade him it will be a salary match and you have to take some longterm dollars on.....for what a pick 15-30...no thanks...

So the fact that he can never play against the best teams in the league in the playoffs doesn't phase you? And you're willing to make a multi-year commitment to that?

What teams can he not play against...GS...who else...I would like to see Draymknd and KD try to box him out on the offensive glass

NardDogNation
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12/10/2017  11:43 PM
ekstarks94 wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
ekstarks94 wrote:Not trading Kanter unless he wants $$$$...which Perry will know beforehand...It says something that you have a player that takes pride in being a Knick...this is the whole reason for the culture change that Mills and Perry are embarking on...short of getting a top 5 or 101 pick I am not trading him...if you trade him it will be a salary match and you have to take some longterm dollars on.....for what a pick 15-30...no thanks...

So the fact that he can never play against the best teams in the league in the playoffs doesn't phase you? And you're willing to make a multi-year commitment to that?

What teams can he not play against...GS...who else...I would like to see Draymknd and KD try to box him out on the offensive glass

Basically any team that forces the tempo, can force switches and score from the perimeter at the big man spots....which is quickly becoming every team in the league. Against the Rockets, he averaged all of 9mpg in the playoffs as a result of his defensive shortcomings in those situations. And this is the guy that is suppose to be the future 5 man of this team? A guy that you can't play when it matters most?

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12/11/2017  12:27 AM
Knixkik wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:We should see what we can get for Kanter.

We simply have too much $ allocated at 5. Open up the cap space--see if we can get a pick and ending contract

Lee Kanter Noah and Oquinn should all be firmly on the block as of game 25--were not winning crp--were 1-8 on the road and -7 H away for games played.

GS puts cheap C in place and gets great results--so does SA. We cant have 45mm at the C.

You have started a thread for this topic many times. You simply don't trade kanter because the previous president invested big money in noah.

And he's been told many times, the marketplace options for Kanter are pretty much nil.

1) Teams actively rebuilding have no interest in a player like Kanter
2) The same reason the Knicks would like to trade him is the same reason other teams would not want him ( Mirror Test)
3) Teams within the "contention window" will have a difficult time for a salary match that's not a bad contract. The Mirror Test applies again, the same reason X team wants to dump the bad contract is the same reason the Knicks don't want that player themselves
4) Kanter is a defensive liability who can't space the floor. This doesn't help a playoff team
5) Kanter has a player option, killing off the possibility of X team in free agency this offseason
6) Kanter is playing hard to get a new contract given teams are cap locked and many are heading into the tax zone, is he gonna play hard after he gets paid again? Precedent says he will do what he did before, which was stop giving a f**k after he got paid.
7) If a player is available, he's usually AVAILABLE FOR A REASON ( which is why most teams will walk past him)

So a team, Team X, could give up a positive asset for a net negative player who can opt in and kill their offseason, who needs to be benched in critical late game situations

OR

They could see if they can get a low cost expiring type player or a ring chaser who was bought out to give them a little bench help at low cost with no long term commitment

That he even sniffs the edge of an idea that any team would take Noah in a deal is clear proof that he has no actual bearing on the actual NBA marketplace.

OKC tried to trade this guy forever, if the market existed for him to be worth a pick and an expiring, OKC would have moved him LONG AGO, long before he was only useful as a salary match for Melo.

No one else wanted him. Not at his AAV, not as his limitations, not right now. They still won't want him.

Since you came on this board you have been way off in regards to trade value. - Briggs 7/28/2015
NardDogNation
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12/11/2017  2:06 AM    LAST EDITED: 12/11/2017  2:08 AM
TripleThreat wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:We should see what we can get for Kanter.

We simply have too much $ allocated at 5. Open up the cap space--see if we can get a pick and ending contract

Lee Kanter Noah and Oquinn should all be firmly on the block as of game 25--were not winning crp--were 1-8 on the road and -7 H away for games played.

GS puts cheap C in place and gets great results--so does SA. We cant have 45mm at the C.

You have started a thread for this topic many times. You simply don't trade kanter because the previous president invested big money in noah.

And he's been told many times, the marketplace options for Kanter are pretty much nil.

1) Teams actively rebuilding have no interest in a player like Kanter
2) The same reason the Knicks would like to trade him is the same reason other teams would not want him ( Mirror Test)
3) Teams within the "contention window" will have a difficult time for a salary match that's not a bad contract. The Mirror Test applies again, the same reason X team wants to dump the bad contract is the same reason the Knicks don't want that player themselves
4) Kanter is a defensive liability who can't space the floor. This doesn't help a playoff team
5) Kanter has a player option, killing off the possibility of X team in free agency this offseason
6) Kanter is playing hard to get a new contract given teams are cap locked and many are heading into the tax zone, is he gonna play hard after he gets paid again? Precedent says he will do what he did before, which was stop giving a f**k after he got paid.
7) If a player is available, he's usually AVAILABLE FOR A REASON ( which is why most teams will walk past him)

So a team, Team X, could give up a positive asset for a net negative player who can opt in and kill their offseason, who needs to be benched in critical late game situations

OR

They could see if they can get a low cost expiring type player or a ring chaser who was bought out to give them a little bench help at low cost with no long term commitment

That he even sniffs the edge of an idea that any team would take Noah in a deal is clear proof that he has no actual bearing on the actual NBA marketplace.

OKC tried to trade this guy forever, if the market existed for him to be worth a pick and an expiring, OKC would have moved him LONG AGO, long before he was only useful as a salary match for Melo.

No one else wanted him. Not at his AAV, not as his limitations, not right now. They still won't want him.

I trend toward your opinion but I do believe that you are underestimating how stupid certain front offices can be: enter Brian Colangelo. He's had a penchant for botching draft picks and grossly mismanaging assets (see giving up two lottery picks to move up two spots in this past draft, breaking bank to sign Landry Fields, etc). If his father- Jerry Colangelo- did not have the rapport and pull he does around the league, I don't even think Brian would have gotten another GM gig considering the job he did in Toronto. So if the Sixers' cap space remains unused this offseason, I could see him taking Kanter's expiring contract to be Embiid's backup.

I could also see either the Nets or Hawks accepting Kanter as a contract dump, since they have every incentive to tank but remain competitive/entertaining while doing so.

Bonn1997
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12/11/2017  8:53 AM
Jeez. Kanter showed up to the last game on crutches because of his back and hip but still played. I admire the commitment but you're really not helping the team when you don't let your injuries heal IMO.
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12/11/2017  8:55 AM    LAST EDITED: 12/11/2017  8:58 AM
Knixkik wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:We should see what we can get for Kanter.

We simply have too much $ allocated at 5. Open up the cap space--see if we can get a pick and ending contract

Lee Kanter Noah and Oquinn should all be firmly on the block as of game 25--were not winning crp--were 1-8 on the road and -7 H away for games played.

GS puts cheap C in place and gets great results--so does SA. We cant have 45mm at the C.

You have started a thread for this topic many times. You simply don't trade kanter because the previous president invested big money in noah.


I have reservations about giving Kanter a huge contract though my mind is still open. But you're right. Noah is a sunk cost and, as long as he's not going to play, is irrelevant to the team's planning. The position you play doesn't matter if you get 0 mpg. He's being paid to wear a suit not to be a center.
Cartman718
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12/11/2017  9:46 AM
Given that he was suspended to start the season and we cannot expect him to play a full season at his age anyway.
Phil+Dolan in their infinite wisdom have him collecting 250,000 per game for the next 3 years. Think about that. Sit your ass on the bench and collect 250K for standing up once every 5 mins and playing cheerleader.
Nixluva is posting triangle screen grabs, even when nobody asks - Fishmike. LOL So are we going to reference that thread like the bible now? "The thread of Wroten Page 14 post 9" - EnySpree
ekstarks94
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12/11/2017  5:29 PM
NardDogNation wrote:
ekstarks94 wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
ekstarks94 wrote:Not trading Kanter unless he wants $$$$...which Perry will know beforehand...It says something that you have a player that takes pride in being a Knick...this is the whole reason for the culture change that Mills and Perry are embarking on...short of getting a top 5 or 101 pick I am not trading him...if you trade him it will be a salary match and you have to take some longterm dollars on.....for what a pick 15-30...no thanks...

So the fact that he can never play against the best teams in the league in the playoffs doesn't phase you? And you're willing to make a multi-year commitment to that?

What teams can he not play against...GS...who else...I would like to see Draymknd and KD try to box him out on the offensive glass

Basically any team that forces the tempo, can force switches and score from the perimeter at the big man spots....which is quickly becoming every team in the league. Against the Rockets, he averaged all of 9mpg in the playoffs as a result of his defensive shortcomings in those situations. And this is the guy that is suppose to be the future 5 man of this team? A guy that you can't play when it matters most?

The guy is not a plodder...is he first team defense no....but his offensive rebounding is elite and he muscle any small man 5.......Last year is a different chapter...if he was doing what he did in the playoffs last year we would be talking right now how good Willy looks next to KP and lamenting $35 mill in salaries at center sitting on the bench....and we would probably be 5-7 games under .500


What center..."attainable" ...would fit your 5 man?

NardDogNation
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12/11/2017  11:52 PM
ekstarks94 wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
ekstarks94 wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
ekstarks94 wrote:Not trading Kanter unless he wants $$$$...which Perry will know beforehand...It says something that you have a player that takes pride in being a Knick...this is the whole reason for the culture change that Mills and Perry are embarking on...short of getting a top 5 or 101 pick I am not trading him...if you trade him it will be a salary match and you have to take some longterm dollars on.....for what a pick 15-30...no thanks...

So the fact that he can never play against the best teams in the league in the playoffs doesn't phase you? And you're willing to make a multi-year commitment to that?

What teams can he not play against...GS...who else...I would like to see Draymknd and KD try to box him out on the offensive glass

Basically any team that forces the tempo, can force switches and score from the perimeter at the big man spots....which is quickly becoming every team in the league. Against the Rockets, he averaged all of 9mpg in the playoffs as a result of his defensive shortcomings in those situations. And this is the guy that is suppose to be the future 5 man of this team? A guy that you can't play when it matters most?

The guy is not a plodder...is he first team defense no....but his offensive rebounding is elite and he muscle any small man 5.......Last year is a different chapter...if he was doing what he did in the playoffs last year we would be talking right now how good Willy looks next to KP and lamenting $35 mill in salaries at center sitting on the bench....and we would probably be 5-7 games under .500


What center..."attainable" ...would fit your 5 man?

You mean, any-and-everything that establishes a body of work for Kanter (and substantiates my point) is irrelevant? Why? Because none of what I said needed to involve "possibility" and conjecture to validate.

As much as I love Kanter's story and heart, I can't ignore what he's been and will be. The guy is a nice piece to have to get regular season wins but can't generate much value when it matters most. There is some utility in that kind of profile but let's not pretend it is something aspirational for a 5-man.

ekstarks94
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12/12/2017  4:30 AM
NardDogNation wrote:
ekstarks94 wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
ekstarks94 wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
ekstarks94 wrote:Not trading Kanter unless he wants $$$$...which Perry will know beforehand...It says something that you have a player that takes pride in being a Knick...this is the whole reason for the culture change that Mills and Perry are embarking on...short of getting a top 5 or 101 pick I am not trading him...if you trade him it will be a salary match and you have to take some longterm dollars on.....for what a pick 15-30...no thanks...

So the fact that he can never play against the best teams in the league in the playoffs doesn't phase you? And you're willing to make a multi-year commitment to that?

What teams can he not play against...GS...who else...I would like to see Draymknd and KD try to box him out on the offensive glass

Basically any team that forces the tempo, can force switches and score from the perimeter at the big man spots....which is quickly becoming every team in the league. Against the Rockets, he averaged all of 9mpg in the playoffs as a result of his defensive shortcomings in those situations. And this is the guy that is suppose to be the future 5 man of this team? A guy that you can't play when it matters most?

The guy is not a plodder...is he first team defense no....but his offensive rebounding is elite and he muscle any small man 5.......Last year is a different chapter...if he was doing what he did in the playoffs last year we would be talking right now how good Willy looks next to KP and lamenting $35 mill in salaries at center sitting on the bench....and we would probably be 5-7 games under .500


What center..."attainable" ...would fit your 5 man?

You mean, any-and-everything that establishes a body of work for Kanter (and substantiates my point) is irrelevant? Why? Because none of what I said needed to involve "possibility" and conjecture to validate.

As much as I love Kanter's story and heart, I can't ignore what he's been and will be. The guy is a nice piece to have to get regular season wins but can't generate much value when it matters most. There is some utility in that kind of profile but let's not pretend it is something aspirational for a 5-man.

Look ......I'm not asking to play word with friends...I'm asking a simple question what is the better alternative next to KP that would be better.

This is the problem i see....what in your mind distinguishes a player as a foundational piece vs. someone on a one year rental? Talent is still talent...I read that he is only playing like this in a contract year....but there is also the remote possibility that this a good situation and he wants to be part of the future...

Again...What u are saying is that we do not need to invest in a player like this for myriad of reasons....I am asking without the word play .....what would be better???? if you have no one in mind just say it...if you have someone than throw it out there for debate....

We as a team do not have to match these "uptempo" teams player for player....we need pieces that fit our system and that actually work...we see evidence of that now....what more or else do you want.

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12/12/2017  5:41 AM
NardDogNation wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:We should see what we can get for Kanter.

We simply have too much $ allocated at 5. Open up the cap space--see if we can get a pick and ending contract

Lee Kanter Noah and Oquinn should all be firmly on the block as of game 25--were not winning crp--were 1-8 on the road and -7 H away for games played.

GS puts cheap C in place and gets great results--so does SA. We cant have 45mm at the C.


KP needs a center that can score in the post and rebound like a fiend. Kanter checks a number of the boxes to maximize KP. Unless we can get Draymond Green somehow Kanter si the best we can do for now

...with Willy Hernangomez sitting on the bench, only being owed $2 million for this and next season? I disagree. I like Kanter but he is a misutilization of resources.

Hopefully that is an option he still has 55 or so games to prove it

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Bonn1997
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12/12/2017  7:41 AM
Jmpasq wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:We should see what we can get for Kanter.

We simply have too much $ allocated at 5. Open up the cap space--see if we can get a pick and ending contract

Lee Kanter Noah and Oquinn should all be firmly on the block as of game 25--were not winning crp--were 1-8 on the road and -7 H away for games played.

GS puts cheap C in place and gets great results--so does SA. We cant have 45mm at the C.


KP needs a center that can score in the post and rebound like a fiend. Kanter checks a number of the boxes to maximize KP. Unless we can get Draymond Green somehow Kanter si the best we can do for now

...with Willy Hernangomez sitting on the bench, only being owed $2 million for this and next season? I disagree. I like Kanter but he is a misutilization of resources.

Hopefully that is an option he still has 55 or so games to prove it


How much would you pay Kanter? I think he'll get 80 to 100 mil.
Unless there is a taker for Noah by deadline

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