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Approaching game 25... should we make a move to improve?
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BRIGGS
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12/11/2017  1:57 PM
I would dump for picks and cap space.

Why-because the worst place in the NBA is between 12-15.


It may not matter even if we dump--I dont think it would set off anything material. We proved what we are and we proved what we arent.

What it would do is set in stone PT for Willy Dotson Baker(and anyone else) We have destroyed Willys market value which probably was 2nd on the team coming into the season.

By the time the Knicks are serious Lee Jack Sessions will be long gone one way or another.

Id like to do what I can to open up cap space next year and to climb as high as possible to get another pick which(atleast to me) is of huge important long term. I dont want a mediocre season to spoil a long term plan.

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WaltLongmire
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12/11/2017  2:07 PM
Have not watched any G-league games, but Burke, Kornet, and Hayes all seem to be doing well re traditional stats.

Hayes shooting 3s at 53%, Burke at 45% and Kornet at almost 43%. Burke averages 25PPG and the other two at 16PPG, and all of them are playing at least 32MPG.

Mayes is dishing- and stealing almost 7APG and 2.2SPG, but his shooting has been below par.

These 4 and Hicks are all averaging 30+MPG. Not sure this is usual in the D-League, but these are clearly players we are looking at.

Not sure if this will mean anything in terms of who we might trade, but I'd like to hear more from the guys who have watched the G-League games to see if any of these guys might see time up her at some point.

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Paris907
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12/12/2017  5:33 PM
So don’t trade Lee he’s a leader and don’t trade KOQ as he’s a Leader and well Noah’s a Leader and hey Kanter has leadership quakities too. Status Quo we can’t do. Its no fun rebuilding but a true rebuild involves securing picks and maneuvering to move up in the draft which I believe the Knicks will do themselves when they return from the Long trip Feb 3. Is Frank part of a nucleus? Too soon to tell. Likewise Dotson and Baker. We need a big and a 3. Preferably a two way stud or KP will bolt
reub
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12/13/2017  10:00 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/14/2017  10:41 AM
Trey Burke with 32 more points on 18 shots last night. 11-11 of free throws. 5 assists and 3 steals. 3 for 5 on threes, where he's been red hot. He lead the team to an easy road victory. Oh, 7 rebounds too. He would help the varsity team.
technomaster
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12/13/2017  11:07 PM
I can see Lee getting moved; historically he's been a great trade deadline pick up. The borderline playoff team that gets him make the post season and pushes for the 2nd round. You really can't ask for much more. Injuries happen to the opposing team and bam, you're in the conference finals.

The Knicks need to determine which players can become the cornerstones of a perennial winner. Salaries/free agency status aside, I see a 4-player core emerging built around KP, Kanter, THJr, and Ntilikina. If these 4 continue to improve both individually and via team chemistry over the next 2 seasons, do we see ourselves as a top-4 playoff team in the east?

If we decide these are the big 4, what about the SF slot? Hornacek has been mixing and matching between Lee, McDermott, Beasley, Thomas - he's made it work. Are we okay going with a stable of role players, or do we want to bring in a bonafide starting SF talent (worthy of 35+mpg).

There's also the matter of both Willy and Noah...

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Knixkik
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12/13/2017  11:27 PM
Paris907 wrote:So don’t trade Lee he’s a leader and don’t trade KOQ as he’s a Leader and well Noah’s a Leader and hey Kanter has leadership quakities too. Status Quo we can’t do. Its no fun rebuilding but a true rebuild involves securing picks and maneuvering to move up in the draft which I believe the Knicks will do themselves when they return from the Long trip Feb 3. Is Frank part of a nucleus? Too soon to tell. Likewise Dotson and Baker. We need a big and a 3. Preferably a two way stud or KP will bolt

Porzingis is more likely to bolt if the front office makes it obvious they are trying to lose for better draft position. It sets a bad precedent and creates a more unstable environment. Moving up a few slots is not worth sacrificing the positive culture being built.

martin
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12/14/2017  12:55 AM
reub wrote:Trey Burke with 32 more points on 18 shots last night. 11-11 of free throws. 5 assists and 3 steals. 3 for 5 on threes, where he's been red hot. He lead the tam to an easy road victory. Oh, 7 rebounds too. He would help the varsity team.

How is he doing running the team?

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EnySpree
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12/14/2017  5:50 AM
Knixkik wrote:
Paris907 wrote:So don’t trade Lee he’s a leader and don’t trade KOQ as he’s a Leader and well Noah’s a Leader and hey Kanter has leadership quakities too. Status Quo we can’t do. Its no fun rebuilding but a true rebuild involves securing picks and maneuvering to move up in the draft which I believe the Knicks will do themselves when they return from the Long trip Feb 3. Is Frank part of a nucleus? Too soon to tell. Likewise Dotson and Baker. We need a big and a 3. Preferably a two way stud or KP will bolt

Porzingis is more likely to bolt if the front office makes it obvious they are trying to lose for better draft position. It sets a bad precedent and creates a more unstable environment. Moving up a few slots is not worth sacrificing the positive culture being built.

This is my point entirely. Porzingas said he's teeing to make the playoffs. We can't sit on our hands and watch them burn. You make a lateral move to improve even if it's slightly to show everyone that we are committed to helping them win.

Easier said than done cuz guys are contributing. Beasley is a weirdo but he helped beat the Lakers the other night. He's stepped up alot. Thomas, Derm and KOQ have been holding it down too. Tough to see who we can move.

You know why I'm here....
EnySpree
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12/14/2017  7:15 AM    LAST EDITED: 12/14/2017  7:20 AM
martin wrote:
reub wrote:Trey Burke with 32 more points on 18 shots last night. 11-11 of free throws. 5 assists and 3 steals. 3 for 5 on threes, where he's been red hot. He lead the tam to an easy road victory. Oh, 7 rebounds too. He would help the varsity team.

How is he doing running the team?

Like you would imagine... he's too dominant of a scorer to really run the team. Thing with the g league is its basically a practice league for certain guys. Trey Burke had had high assist games too when he could have easily scored when he felt like it. When baker, Noah and dotson came down he settled into that role so those guys can shine.

I been watching when I can at work. G league games are more fun to watch. The talent and quality of games are just better. It's not a game of bums trying to force shots. Westchester Knicks are actually pretty good.

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nyknickzingis
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12/14/2017  9:22 AM
Quite obvious the more immediate move is still to trade one of the backup Centers for a wing that has true SF size and fits in. We have players that can score or defend, but imagine having a guy that can do what Lance Thomas does on defense and Doug McDermott does on offense. A two-way wing like that, and I'd be willing to move Willy, as much as I like him.
MS
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12/14/2017  9:29 AM
There isn’t really a need to make a move, unless someone is giving us a draft pick in the first round for either Oquinn or Lee, if not we have three good starters and a potential solid starter in frank going forward. It would be far more valuable to let the kid take over the team and grow with KP, Kanter and Hardaway. even if we don’t make the playoffs it gives potential free agents a look at a nice young core.

If we can get Willy minutes and he shows some of the same promise he did last season it gives us another asset to potentially move with our draft pick to secure the small forward we need.

reub
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12/14/2017  10:27 AM
martin wrote:
reub wrote:Trey Burke with 32 more points on 18 shots last night. 11-11 of free throws. 5 assists and 3 steals. 3 for 5 on threes, where he's been red hot. He lead the tam to an easy road victory. Oh, 7 rebounds too. He would help the varsity team.

How is he doing running the team?

He looks terrific running the team. He's always in control, looks for his teammates, and is working his ass off on defense. He can dribble through anyone. The best indication of how well he's running the team is that Westchester has the best record in all of the G League.

Bretrobert1
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12/14/2017  10:32 AM
reub wrote:Trey Burke with 32 more points on 18 shots last night. 11-11 of free throws. 5 assists and 3 steals. 3 for 5 on threes, where he's been red hot. He lead the tam to an easy road victory. Oh, 7 rebounds too. He would help the varsity team.

Big fan of Burke. I know Jack's been playing well, but would have liked to have seen Burke step up to varsity as well.

"I love you guys." -Norman Dale
Bretrobert1
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12/14/2017  10:44 AM
What exactly were the reasons for Utah basically giving up on Burke so quickly? I thought he was playing well for them the few games I saw. And like someone else mentioned in another thread, coming into the League as a PG is possibly the most demanding job to take. Just kinda odd that the Jazz traded up to 9 to get him, he puts up pretty good stats as a rookie, and then move him to the bench and eventually shed him after 3 seasons.
"I love you guys." -Norman Dale
knicks1248
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12/14/2017  10:55 AM
BRIGGS wrote:I would dump for picks and cap space.

Why-because the worst place in the NBA is between 12-15.


It may not matter even if we dump--I dont think it would set off anything material. We proved what we are and we proved what we arent.

What it would do is set in stone PT for Willy Dotson Baker(and anyone else) We have destroyed Willys market value which probably was 2nd on the team coming into the season.

By the time the Knicks are serious Lee Jack Sessions will be long gone one way or another.

Id like to do what I can to open up cap space next year and to climb as high as possible to get another pick which(atleast to me) is of huge important long term. I dont want a mediocre season to spoil a long term plan.


I totally understand your point, because a lot of 7th and 8th seeds fall right back to lottery teams the following yr.

You can't dump players for cap space and then wonder why you can only sign 2nd 3rd tier FA like Afflalo, KOQ, lopez, dwill, 45 to 48 wins gets FA stars attention.

ES
BigDaddyG
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12/14/2017  11:01 AM
Bretrobert1 wrote:What exactly were the reasons for Utah basically giving up on Burke so quickly? I thought he was playing well for them the few games I saw. And like someone else mentioned in another thread, coming into the League as a PG is possibly the most demanding job to take. Just kinda odd that the Jazz traded up to 9 to get him, he puts up pretty good stats as a rookie, and then move him to the bench and eventually shed him after 3 seasons.

He didn't play that well. He was force fed minutes as a rookie and that's why he made rookie of the year, but his shooting numbers were atrocious and he couldn't run the team that well. That's why they drafted Exum a year later.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
reub
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12/14/2017  11:05 AM    LAST EDITED: 12/14/2017  11:05 AM
BigDaddyG wrote:
Bretrobert1 wrote:What exactly were the reasons for Utah basically giving up on Burke so quickly? I thought he was playing well for them the few games I saw. And like someone else mentioned in another thread, coming into the League as a PG is possibly the most demanding job to take. Just kinda odd that the Jazz traded up to 9 to get him, he puts up pretty good stats as a rookie, and then move him to the bench and eventually shed him after 3 seasons.

He didn't play that well. He was force fed minutes as a rookie and that's why he made rookie of the year, but his shooting numbers were atrocious and he couldn't run the team that well. That's why they drafted Exum a year later.

He wasn't ready then but he's ready now. 25 is when a lot of PG's start to come into their own. His shooting has improved tremendously. He's been working diligently on his body. He can dribble through brick walls. Reminding me of Iverson with more tenacity on defense.

Bretrobert1
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12/14/2017  11:13 AM
BigDaddyG wrote:
Bretrobert1 wrote:What exactly were the reasons for Utah basically giving up on Burke so quickly? I thought he was playing well for them the few games I saw. And like someone else mentioned in another thread, coming into the League as a PG is possibly the most demanding job to take. Just kinda odd that the Jazz traded up to 9 to get him, he puts up pretty good stats as a rookie, and then move him to the bench and eventually shed him after 3 seasons.

He didn't play that well. He was force fed minutes as a rookie and that's why he made rookie of the year, but his shooting numbers were atrocious and he couldn't run the team that well. That's why they drafted Exum a year later.

Yeah, I knew he struggled shooting, but that can be expected as a rookie PG-or at least I thought it could.. He had right around a 3:1 TO/assist ratio and plays pretty good D. I guess a better question is, what were the Jazz expecting by drafting a rookie PG at #9 in the draft?

"I love you guys." -Norman Dale
reub
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12/14/2017  11:15 AM
BigDaddyG wrote:
Bretrobert1 wrote:What exactly were the reasons for Utah basically giving up on Burke so quickly? I thought he was playing well for them the few games I saw. And like someone else mentioned in another thread, coming into the League as a PG is possibly the most demanding job to take. Just kinda odd that the Jazz traded up to 9 to get him, he puts up pretty good stats as a rookie, and then move him to the bench and eventually shed him after 3 seasons.

He didn't play that well. He was force fed minutes as a rookie and that's why he made rookie of the year, but his shooting numbers were atrocious and he couldn't run the team that well. That's why they drafted Exum a year later.

A nice blog that Burke just wrote:


http://gleague.nba.com/news/nba-journey-trey-burke/

He idolized Iverson growing up. He was only 20 when the Jazz drafted Exum and it messed him up. He used to take basketball as a job but he loves it again. His whole attitude has changed since he got married. Likes being in New York. Says that he can score on anybody.


"I wanted to start from scratch and I’m not ashamed of that. I think the sky is the limit from here. I’m getting better every day and my habits are great. They weren’t great when I came into the league and I think my wife and my support system has a lot to do with that."

BigDaddyG
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12/14/2017  11:23 AM
reub wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
Bretrobert1 wrote:What exactly were the reasons for Utah basically giving up on Burke so quickly? I thought he was playing well for them the few games I saw. And like someone else mentioned in another thread, coming into the League as a PG is possibly the most demanding job to take. Just kinda odd that the Jazz traded up to 9 to get him, he puts up pretty good stats as a rookie, and then move him to the bench and eventually shed him after 3 seasons.

He didn't play that well. He was force fed minutes as a rookie and that's why he made rookie of the year, but his shooting numbers were atrocious and he couldn't run the team that well. That's why they drafted Exum a year later.

He wasn't ready then but he's ready now. 25 is when a lot of PG's start to come into their own. His shooting has improved tremendously. He's been working diligently on his body. He can dribble through brick walls. Reminding me of Iverson with more tenacity on defense.


I misspoke. He made all-rookie team, but not rookie of the year. Maybe he's developed. I don't see him making an impact, but I'm sure an injury will happen and he gets his chance. His problems come from defense and finishing on the NBA level. He always ends up taking Steph Curry type shots, but he's not Steph Curry. It's hard to tell if he's improved on that in the G-League level.
His projected NBA stats this year in the G-League look about the same as they did earlier in his career.http://stats.gleague.nba.com/player/#!/203504/projections/?p=trey-burke
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
Approaching game 25... should we make a move to improve?

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