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Approaching game 25... should we make a move to improve?
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meloshouldgo
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12/9/2017  9:37 PM
EnySpree wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:I am OK with moving KOQ and a couple others for a decent SF - but not sure what that would achieve?

We'd be getting better.

to what end? I am not sure a first round exit or a better draft pick is better. 4-7 games of playoff experience isn't a life changer but a good player in this draft may well be.

If we make the playoffs we could attract free agents. We could still get a nice player with a pick around #18. Playoff experience vital... continuity.

If we can get a lateral trade and maybe call up Trey Burke and or Hicks... we might have enough to give a nice showing in the playoffs. What if Paul George likes what he sees and signs here? Way if we get a nice player at say #18 pick?.... can't say it won't happen. Its a possibility. Cant just piss every season away trying to get high draft picks. There's more than One way to build a roster


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knickstorrents
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12/9/2017  9:38 PM
EnySpree wrote:
Gudris wrote:No rush, we have 3-4 years before there will be a options to win a chip

That's cool but why 3-4 years? What's going to happen during that period?

I see we have pieces now... I'm not talking about trading away the future. Perry isn't going to do that. We could use another piece... another guy worth keeping around.

The better teams will get older (mainly Lebron, but also Golden State). I don't see any other teams competing for a title for at least another 2-3 years. But who knows maybe the Celtics can surprise us.

Rose is not the answer.
nyknickzingis
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12/10/2017  7:56 AM
We need another wing. Someone like Otto Porter would be great.
I don't see that we have the trade assets to land the type of player we need.

KP, Kanter, THJ is real good. Add a wing like Porter or someone at that 15 points a night (and plays defense at the 3) level, we're in a good spot. I don't want to go for a PG because I believe Jack is a good chemistry guy and Frank needs to be that guy. Frank had a solid game last night. He's going to be a major asset in a little while with his defense and ability to do multiple things on offense.

I'd be open to trading KOQ, Lee, Willy even if it's a top quality starting 3 who can shoot give you 15 points and play defense (while actually having SF size). I just don't know of a player like that available right now.

Nalod
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12/10/2017  8:54 AM
If we can’t win on the road then “Sell”. We have a lot of road games ahead as the schedule rebalances.
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Ira
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12/10/2017  8:58 AM
I think we need to continue to build a young nucleus. I think we should consider trading McBuckets and O'Quinn as they both have options at the end of the season. Both could help serious contenders.

It looks to me that we're lottery bound and this is a good thing. Even if we could make the playoffs, we don't yet have the players to go far.

Jmpasq
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12/10/2017  10:21 AM
smackeddog wrote:I think we really need to decide if what we have is enough (with added player development over the next few years) first. I'm in two minds- I like the competing, I like the winning, I sometimes think, maybe if KP and Frank continue to improve we could be onto something- but my worry is we just relive what happened with the Suns that year Hornacek nearly took them to the playoffs in what was meant to be a rebuilding year- it was great for the fans at the time, but it set their rebuilding back years.

With just player development no chance in hell they still need a superstar SF that can pick up the slack when KP misses his 15-20 games a year. They also need an upgrade at PG. Frank should be the first guard off the bench

Check out My NFL Draft Prospect Videos at Youtube User Pages Jmpasq,JPdraftjedi,Jmpasqdraftjedi. www.Draftbreakdown.com
EnySpree
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12/10/2017  10:25 AM
Ira wrote:I think we need to continue to build a young nucleus. I think we should consider trading McBuckets and O'Quinn as they both have options at the end of the season. Both could help serious contenders.

It looks to me that we're lottery bound and this is a good thing. Even if we could make the playoffs, we don't yet have the players to go far.

It might all be true but we have to show our guys that we aren't going to leave them out to dry. Like I said it could be as simple as calling up Trey Burke and Hicks

You know why I'm here....
Jmpasq
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12/10/2017  10:28 AM
awe1028 wrote:Should we make a move to improve? Nope at least not the way the question is intimating. The Knicks are 12 and 12 after playing 2/3 of their games at home not good. Beginning on December 27 the Knicks play 16 of 20 games on the road. Chances are after that stretch the Knicks will have collapsed. The Knicks should ride that collapse to a higher pick in the draft and get that stud SF they desperately need.

Yes +1000000000 you get it.

Check out My NFL Draft Prospect Videos at Youtube User Pages Jmpasq,JPdraftjedi,Jmpasqdraftjedi. www.Draftbreakdown.com
Jmpasq
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12/10/2017  10:35 AM
EnySpree wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:I am OK with moving KOQ and a couple others for a decent SF - but not sure what that would achieve?

We'd be getting better.

to what end? I am not sure a first round exit or a better draft pick is better. 4-7 games of playoff experience isn't a life changer but a good player in this draft may well be.

If we make the playoffs we could attract free agents. We could still get a nice player with a pick around #18. Playoff experience vital... continuity.

If we can get a lateral trade and maybe call up Trey Burke and or Hicks... we might have enough to give a nice showing in the playoffs. What if Paul George likes what he sees and signs here? Way if we get a nice player at say #18 pick?.... can't say it won't happen. Its a possibility. Cant just piss every season away trying to get high draft picks. There's more than One way to build a roster

we are capped out with Noah and Hardaway

Check out My NFL Draft Prospect Videos at Youtube User Pages Jmpasq,JPdraftjedi,Jmpasqdraftjedi. www.Draftbreakdown.com
EnySpree
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12/10/2017  10:38 AM    LAST EDITED: 12/10/2017  10:44 AM
Jmpasq wrote:
awe1028 wrote:Should we make a move to improve? Nope at least not the way the question is intimating. The Knicks are 12 and 12 after playing 2/3 of their games at home not good. Beginning on December 27 the Knicks play 16 of 20 games on the road. Chances are after that stretch the Knicks will have collapsed. The Knicks should ride that collapse to a higher pick in the draft and get that stud SF they desperately need.

Yes +1000000000 you get it.

What is that "you get it" bull****? What is there to get? We lose we get a high draft pick. Does that solve the divinci codes? Nah... that's basic math.

Regardless of that scenario, the point im making is we owe it to this team to improve some kind of way.... be it a LATERAL TRADE that doesn't effect the future picks or salary, or simply calling guys up from the g league.

Point that can't be taken lightly is the December 27th road extravaganza... we don't want to destroy chemistry. Even if we do miss the playoffs we have to keep the players together on a positive shift. All this is important.

You know why I'm here....
Bonn1997
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12/10/2017  11:22 AM
Jmpasq wrote:
awe1028 wrote:Should we make a move to improve? Nope at least not the way the question is intimating. The Knicks are 12 and 12 after playing 2/3 of their games at home not good. Beginning on December 27 the Knicks play 16 of 20 games on the road. Chances are after that stretch the Knicks will have collapsed. The Knicks should ride that collapse to a higher pick in the draft and get that stud SF they desperately need.

Yes +1000000000 you get it.


This is not something I've looked at that closely but there was one analysis posted here about a year ago that found that the draft after pick 10 was mostly a crap-shoot (with the expected value of a pick around 11 or 12 being barely higher than one in the 20s).
awe1028
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12/10/2017  4:29 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/10/2017  6:35 PM
EnySpree wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:
awe1028 wrote:Should we make a move to improve? Nope at least not the way the question is intimating. The Knicks are 12 and 12 after playing 2/3 of their games at home not good. Beginning on December 27 the Knicks play 16 of 20 games on the road. Chances are after that stretch the Knicks will have collapsed. The Knicks should ride that collapse to a higher pick in the draft and get that stud SF they desperately need.

Yes +1000000000 you get it.

What is that "you get it" bull****? What is there to get? We lose we get a high draft pick. Does that solve the divinci codes? Nah... that's basic math.

Regardless of that scenario, the point im making is we owe it to this team to improve some kind of way.... be it a LATERAL TRADE that doesn't effect the future picks or salary, or simply calling guys up from the g league.

Point that can't be taken lightly is the December 27th road extravaganza... we don't want to destroy chemistry. Even if we do miss the playoffs we have to keep the players together on a positive shift. All this is important.


IMHO Despite the ups and downs to this point in the season the Knicks are already improving and displaying chemistry. Why? The eye test. We as fans can see the Knicks are vastly improved and showing chemistry. Also they are playing meaningful games scrapping and scraping for a playoff spot. That alone builds chemistry and improves the team.

Rather than bringing some outside player at this time, The Knicks need to stay the course Let these young players continue to play meaningful minutes with each other. That builds further chemistry and improvement you are so concerned about.

Besides You never know how adding a new player in the mix will affect chemistry. And who exactly do you propose the knicks bring in? Trading CLee or KOQ would be lateral moves at best so why bother?

Instead focus on the draft to bring in the talented player the team needs to further the improvement. If the Knicks are able to get a Kevin Knox or a Mikal Bridges in the 2018 draft, no one here is going to remember or care that the Knicks lost some games back in December 2017.

nyknickzingis
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12/11/2017  7:36 AM    LAST EDITED: 12/11/2017  7:37 AM
Way Doug McDermott played last night really helped.
If we can get a starting wing who can do what McDermott did last night, on a consistent basis, would really help this team.

We should also consider starting Doug while THJ is out. We need that scoring threat. CLee and Doug starting would help lessen the load and defensive coverage on Porzingis.

In relevance to this thread, we should be looking at a trade for O'Quinn going out for a wing. Maybe more trade assets on our side, but that player needs to be able to start and give the team 15 points a night.

SupremeCommander
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12/11/2017  9:37 AM
we lost to the effing Bulls... no effing way should we make a move to improve... 1-8 on the road... this team has no shot of making it out of the first round. If anything, we should be selling off our overachieving pieces
fishmike said: Yes. Sometimes I confuse the alerts with when your mom calls. BTW she said defensive guards are really important.
SupremeCommander
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12/11/2017  9:37 AM
Jmpasq wrote:
awe1028 wrote:Should we make a move to improve? Nope at least not the way the question is intimating. The Knicks are 12 and 12 after playing 2/3 of their games at home not good. Beginning on December 27 the Knicks play 16 of 20 games on the road. Chances are after that stretch the Knicks will have collapsed. The Knicks should ride that collapse to a higher pick in the draft and get that stud SF they desperately need.

Yes +1000000000 you get it.

^242732475693

fishmike said: Yes. Sometimes I confuse the alerts with when your mom calls. BTW she said defensive guards are really important.
fishmike
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12/11/2017  10:24 AM
meloshouldgo wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:I am OK with moving KOQ and a couple others for a decent SF - but not sure what that would achieve?

We'd be getting better.

to what end? I am not sure a first round exit or a better draft pick is better. 4-7 games of playoff experience isn't a life changer but a good player in this draft may well be.

If we make the playoffs we could attract free agents. We could still get a nice player with a pick around #18. Playoff experience vital... continuity.

If we can get a lateral trade and maybe call up Trey Burke and or Hicks... we might have enough to give a nice showing in the playoffs. What if Paul George likes what he sees and signs here? Way if we get a nice player at say #18 pick?.... can't say it won't happen. Its a possibility. Cant just piss every season away trying to get high draft picks. There's more than One way to build a roster


We have tried the other ways of building a team - the results speak for themselves
No true... Eny is talking about continuity and building around a young group of players. Sorry when did we do that? We had those 2 months before the Melo trade... I dont remember another time. Honestly.

I think we can build a great defensive team anchored by KP/Frank. Literally everyone else on the roster is a wait and see for me.

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fishmike
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12/11/2017  10:25 AM
Jmpasq wrote:
smackeddog wrote:I think we really need to decide if what we have is enough (with added player development over the next few years) first. I'm in two minds- I like the competing, I like the winning, I sometimes think, maybe if KP and Frank continue to improve we could be onto something- but my worry is we just relive what happened with the Suns that year Hornacek nearly took them to the playoffs in what was meant to be a rebuilding year- it was great for the fans at the time, but it set their rebuilding back years.

With just player development no chance in hell they still need a superstar SF that can pick up the slack when KP misses his 15-20 games a year. They also need an upgrade at PG. Frank should be the first guard off the bench

maybe we should just trade him for a draft pick
fishmike - Making UltimateKnicks great again
arkrud
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12/11/2017  11:27 AM
I think it is no point to make any moves before all-star-break or so.
At this time after 20-16 road stretch the season result will be clear.
If team will still be around 50% the active playing roster should be kept.
Also we will get a good fell about the durability of every player.
If team will fall of the cliff we need to look to unload the pieces which are out of time line or free to jump the ship.
Of course if it will be any possibility to improve or get good assets back.
So far the rebuild is progressing better that anticipated but it is just few month in so who knows...
The variance is huge.
He can teach them to meditate... but no one can control even his own mind...
Knixkik
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12/11/2017  11:40 AM
nyknickzingis wrote:We need another wing. Someone like Otto Porter would be great.
I don't see that we have the trade assets to land the type of player we need.

KP, Kanter, THJ is real good. Add a wing like Porter or someone at that 15 points a night (and plays defense at the 3) level, we're in a good spot. I don't want to go for a PG because I believe Jack is a good chemistry guy and Frank needs to be that guy. Frank had a solid game last night. He's going to be a major asset in a little while with his defense and ability to do multiple things on offense.

I'd be open to trading KOQ, Lee, Willy even if it's a top quality starting 3 who can shoot give you 15 points and play defense (while actually having SF size). I just don't know of a player like that available right now.


I agree. An Otto Porter SF would be ideal. Mikal Bridges has that potential, although his stock is skyrocketing. The other hole is a true playmaking PG. Jack is doing some good things but it will eventually come to an end. Having him as a 3rd string PG, with Frank eventually starting, leaves a hole at backup PG. A change-of-pace PG is needed. Trae Young or Trevon Duval are certainly possibilities. Those are our 2 biggest gaps to fill long-term.
WaltLongmire
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12/11/2017  1:48 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
smackeddog wrote:I think we really need to decide if what we have is enough (with added player development over the next few years) first. I'm in two minds- I like the competing, I like the winning, I sometimes think, maybe if KP and Frank continue to improve we could be onto something- but my worry is we just relive what happened with the Suns that year Hornacek nearly took them to the playoffs in what was meant to be a rebuilding year- it was great for the fans at the time, but it set their rebuilding back years.

Could probably get some pics for Lee and KOQ right now

Doubt if they want to give up Lee at this point. He's become a team leader.

I have a gut feeling that we aren't going to trade him, even though it was something I figured we would do before the season.

KOQ might go because of his contract, but he is another locker room leader, who also give you good minutes on the floor. I would see him having some value in a trade because he's become a good shot blocker and is a good passer. He could easily fit in with many teams and contribute without missing a beat.

Tough calls to make...at this point we all would love to see a trade for Noah, but his value is so low that we would almost have to give up something of value to get him.

Just don't see us doing anything right now.

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
Approaching game 25... should we make a move to improve?

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