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This is sink or swim time (aka tank or no tank)
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nyknickzingis
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12/5/2017  5:39 PM
With Tim out for atleast 2 more weeks. KP nursing a bum ankle and maybe not 100 percent for a while, even if he plays, these next 6 to 8 games will decide our season, in my opinion. If we stay at around .500 I think we can probably make a fight for the playoffs and depending on where things are in April, maybe even make it. On the other side if we lose quite a few now, I don't see a recovery later on and I don't even want one.

I'm a little torn because I feel on one side this team has a core of young players that can win games and be good in Kanter/Porzingis/Tim/Frank. This is a nice group to have, with Willy as well. But they won't win a championship and need more talent. Imagine having Michael Porter, Doncic or Kevin Knox with that group?

What's best right now? Sink or swim in the standings?

AUTOADVERT
Nalod
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12/5/2017  5:46 PM
send them down to the Gleague and tank.
Actually let nature take its course. If we good enough, we'll win. If not. we'll get a lottery pick.
As long as we are playing the yoots its good. Vets are there to guide them.
Dotson getting minutes. Its telling we are letting the yoots play.
THis is what rebuilding looks like. Its uneven.
Anger sells, don't buy!
BRIGGS
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12/5/2017  5:47 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/5/2017  5:50 PM
nyknickzingis wrote:With Tim out for atleast 2 more weeks. KP nursing a bum ankle and maybe not 100 percent for a while, even if he plays, these next 6 to 8 games will decide our season, in my opinion. If we stay at around .500 I think we can probably make a fight for the playoffs and depending on where things are in April, maybe even make it. On the other side if we lose quite a few now, I don't see a recovery later on and I don't even want one.

I'm a little torn because I feel on one side this team has a core of young players that can win games and be good in Kanter/Porzingis/Tim/Frank. This is a nice group to have, with Willy as well. But they won't win a championship and need more talent. Imagine having Michael Porter, Doncic or Kevin Knox with that group?

What's best right now? Sink or swim in the standings?

I would not play KP with a bad ankle.

Also there is 0 evidence that Frank is our future star PG. Hes 2 years away from being 2 years away. Im not sure what the Knicks have. We need different players that take workload off KP. KP will keep getting hurt if he is forced to be THE guy. No more skinny foreign guys drafted.

Nalod
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12/5/2017  5:56 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:With Tim out for atleast 2 more weeks. KP nursing a bum ankle and maybe not 100 percent for a while, even if he plays, these next 6 to 8 games will decide our season, in my opinion. If we stay at around .500 I think we can probably make a fight for the playoffs and depending on where things are in April, maybe even make it. On the other side if we lose quite a few now, I don't see a recovery later on and I don't even want one.

I'm a little torn because I feel on one side this team has a core of young players that can win games and be good in Kanter/Porzingis/Tim/Frank. This is a nice group to have, with Willy as well. But they won't win a championship and need more talent. Imagine having Michael Porter, Doncic or Kevin Knox with that group?

What's best right now? Sink or swim in the standings?

I would not play KP with a bad ankle.

Also there is 0 evidence that Frank is our future star PG. Hes 2 years away from being 2 years away. Im not sure what the Knicks have. We need different players that take workload off KP. KP will keep getting hurt if he is forced to be THE guy. No more skinny foreign guys drafted.


Shut it down dude. Your freaking out.

Anger sells, don't buy!
nyknickzingis
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12/5/2017  6:00 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/5/2017  6:00 PM
Nalod wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:With Tim out for atleast 2 more weeks. KP nursing a bum ankle and maybe not 100 percent for a while, even if he plays, these next 6 to 8 games will decide our season, in my opinion. If we stay at around .500 I think we can probably make a fight for the playoffs and depending on where things are in April, maybe even make it. On the other side if we lose quite a few now, I don't see a recovery later on and I don't even want one.

I'm a little torn because I feel on one side this team has a core of young players that can win games and be good in Kanter/Porzingis/Tim/Frank. This is a nice group to have, with Willy as well. But they won't win a championship and need more talent. Imagine having Michael Porter, Doncic or Kevin Knox with that group?

What's best right now? Sink or swim in the standings?

I would not play KP with a bad ankle.

Also there is 0 evidence that Frank is our future star PG. Hes 2 years away from being 2 years away. Im not sure what the Knicks have. We need different players that take workload off KP. KP will keep getting hurt if he is forced to be THE guy. No more skinny foreign guys drafted.


Shut it down dude. Your freaking out.


At draft time Briggs was sure Frank was the right guy at 8.
Now when he starts to play well Briggs will say he loved him and always wanted him.
This is just how it works.

Frank has shown me enough to be able to determine he will be part of a core. He defends. He moves the ball. He can shoot from outside (will get better). He may not be a star, but I never had that expectation of him. I took Phil's evaluation at heart. He'll give us that defender, high IQ and leader we need.

newyorknewyork
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12/5/2017  6:09 PM
Keep KP and Hardaway out until they are 100%. The start of the season was fun with how competitive we were. But this is a rebuilding team who can't afford these type of losses as most teams wouldn't.

Lucky we have our draft pick. Dotson will see hefty mins and hopefully shows improvement.

BRIGGS
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12/5/2017  6:56 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:Keep KP and Hardaway out until they are 100%. The start of the season was fun with how competitive we were. But this is a rebuilding team who can't afford these type of losses as most teams wouldn't.

Lucky we have our draft pick. Dotson will see hefty mins and hopefully shows improvement.

Agree--do NOT play injured KP.

Give Dotson Baker and Willy much bigger roles. Look to trade vets Kanter Lee and Oquinn.

BRIGGS
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12/5/2017  6:59 PM
nyknickzingis wrote:
Nalod wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:With Tim out for atleast 2 more weeks. KP nursing a bum ankle and maybe not 100 percent for a while, even if he plays, these next 6 to 8 games will decide our season, in my opinion. If we stay at around .500 I think we can probably make a fight for the playoffs and depending on where things are in April, maybe even make it. On the other side if we lose quite a few now, I don't see a recovery later on and I don't even want one.

I'm a little torn because I feel on one side this team has a core of young players that can win games and be good in Kanter/Porzingis/Tim/Frank. This is a nice group to have, with Willy as well. But they won't win a championship and need more talent. Imagine having Michael Porter, Doncic or Kevin Knox with that group?

What's best right now? Sink or swim in the standings?

I would not play KP with a bad ankle.

Also there is 0 evidence that Frank is our future star PG. Hes 2 years away from being 2 years away. Im not sure what the Knicks have. We need different players that take workload off KP. KP will keep getting hurt if he is forced to be THE guy. No more skinny foreign guys drafted.


Shut it down dude. Your freaking out.


At draft time Briggs was sure Frank was the right guy at 8.
Now when he starts to play well Briggs will say he loved him and always wanted him.
This is just how it works.

Frank has shown me enough to be able to determine he will be part of a core. He defends. He moves the ball. He can shoot from outside (will get better). He may not be a star, but I never had that expectation of him. I took Phil's evaluation at heart. He'll give us that defender, high IQ and leader we need.

To be fair I wanted JOhn Collins but I knew we had zero chance of taking him. But out of Smith MItchell and Frank--I picked Frank. Im not down on Frank but its blunt obvious that he is going to need game and physical development. I dont see why some people dont want to see him given an extended role with the D league team. He looks like a little boy out there in mans league.

Knixkik
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12/5/2017  11:57 PM
Winning is never a bad thing. We have a good core of players. Regardless of where we pick, there will be a good player available. We need to draft well and develop what we have. Expect ups and downs.
meloshouldgo
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12/6/2017  7:24 AM    LAST EDITED: 12/6/2017  1:22 PM
Knixkik wrote:Winning is never a bad thing. We have a good core of players. Regardless of where we pick, there will be a good player available. We need to draft well and develop what we have. Expect ups and downs.

Agree. There are times when I think tanking does make sense, when the team had completely lost it's way and is no longer a functional unit. That was the situation last year and I wish they tanked, instead of trying to win meaningless games that did absolutely nothing for the TEAM.

The only things that trickle down are wages and horse shit
knicks1248
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12/6/2017  8:22 AM
Knixkik wrote:Winning is never a bad thing. We have a good core of players. Regardless of where we pick, there will be a good player available. We need to draft well and develop what we have. Expect ups and downs.

We don't have a good young core, we have a suspect young core. DOTSON, FRANK, WILLY, BAKER, do any of these guy look like they can start on a good team, or even a bad team. These guys look like they will develop into maybe a decent bench player, if that.

When we drafted Wilson, nate, lee, danilo, ariza, those guys look nothing like the kids we have now.

ES
Knixkik
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12/6/2017  9:22 AM
knicks1248 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:Winning is never a bad thing. We have a good core of players. Regardless of where we pick, there will be a good player available. We need to draft well and develop what we have. Expect ups and downs.

We don't have a good young core, we have a suspect young core. DOTSON, FRANK, WILLY, BAKER, do any of these guy look like they can start on a good team, or even a bad team. These guys look like they will develop into maybe a decent bench player, if that.

When we drafted Wilson, nate, lee, danilo, ariza, those guys look nothing like the kids we have now.

Those players you mentioned other than Frank aren't core players. KP, Frank, Hardaway, and maybe Kanter are the core. The rest are just young prospects who are unknowns. Every team in the league has unknowns. I'm talking about the core players, meaning the players we are building around. I am not sure why you think anyone is judging Baker, Willy, Dotson as starting players.

jrodmc
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12/6/2017  9:33 AM
Holy crap. Frankie's now 4 years away? Who knew? BRIGGS, you are great!
Phil's parting gift has got to be better than that.
Right, let's shut it down, put KP on ice for a year, let him make movies and commercials, let little Willy play all by his lonesome, etc, etc, etc.


Can't we just play each and every one of the games and try to win? Is that asking so much every year?

You guys spend a lot of time commenting on the internet?
Knixkik
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12/6/2017  9:56 AM
jrodmc wrote:Holy crap. Frankie's now 4 years away? Who knew? BRIGGS, you are great!
Phil's parting gift has got to be better than that.
Right, let's shut it down, put KP on ice for a year, let him make movies and commercials, let little Willy play all by his lonesome, etc, etc, etc.


Can't we just play each and every one of the games and try to win? Is that asking so much every year?

Everyone is obsessed with tanking. It is just the way things are now. More lottery balls will always be better than winning games in the long run to a large percentage of people.

NardDogNation
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12/6/2017  10:20 AM    LAST EDITED: 12/6/2017  10:24 AM
Knixkik wrote:
jrodmc wrote:Holy crap. Frankie's now 4 years away? Who knew? BRIGGS, you are great!
Phil's parting gift has got to be better than that.
Right, let's shut it down, put KP on ice for a year, let him make movies and commercials, let little Willy play all by his lonesome, etc, etc, etc.


Can't we just play each and every one of the games and try to win? Is that asking so much every year?

Everyone is obsessed with tanking. It is just the way things are now. More lottery balls will always be better than winning games in the long run to a large percentage of people.

Tanking for the sake of tanking is destructive. Losing games because you're focusing on developing youth, is constructive. The latter is what the Knicks should aspire towards since it refines our core and produces a high enough pick to continue to expand that core.

TheGame
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12/6/2017  10:48 AM
The team should definitely trade either Kanter or OQuinn, which ever one they do not plan to resign. Both could net us a draft pick.
Playoffs or bust
Knixkik
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12/6/2017  10:56 AM
TheGame wrote:The team should definitely trade either Kanter or OQuinn, which ever one they do not plan to resign. Both could net us a draft pick.

Can't trade Kanter at this point. He looks like part of the future. There is no better fit next to Porzingis right now. They are a match made in heaven. We need to continue to build up, not tear down what is working for the sake of more picks. O'Quinn should be moved though.

jrodmc
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12/6/2017  11:04 AM
NardDogNation wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
jrodmc wrote:Holy crap. Frankie's now 4 years away? Who knew? BRIGGS, you are great!
Phil's parting gift has got to be better than that.
Right, let's shut it down, put KP on ice for a year, let him make movies and commercials, let little Willy play all by his lonesome, etc, etc, etc.


Can't we just play each and every one of the games and try to win? Is that asking so much every year?

Everyone is obsessed with tanking. It is just the way things are now. More lottery balls will always be better than winning games in the long run to a large percentage of people.

Tanking for the sake of tanking is destructive. Losing games because you're focusing on developing youth, is constructive. The latter is what the Knicks should aspire towards since it refines our core and produces a high enough pick to continue to expand that core.

So you don't tank to tank (who does this?), you just aspire to lose games on purpose so your core gets refined and you get draft picks. Got it.
You are talking in semantic circles.

You guys spend a lot of time commenting on the internet?
GustavBahler
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12/6/2017  11:24 AM
Pulling healthy stars, giving younger players the bulk of the PT, should happen (if at all) in the spring. When the birds are singing, and the Knicks are clearly out of the playoffs. After the players, the coaches, have made every effort to be competitive this season.

Thats a way to change the culture without shooting yourself in the foot. Starting an early tank was understandable when we didnt have KP. Things have changed, and the culture has to change as well. This includes tanking at the first sign of trouble.

Coming to the conclusion (pretty sure Im not alone) that Willy is David Lee 2.0 This team cant afford the luxury of a one way big. Even off the bench. We saw that he can still fill a stat sheet in a heartbeat. Sure some teams see that.

Since Noah is unlikely to be moved, showcasing Willy at times might net us a pick, a better backup PG, someone who addresses another need.

knicks1248
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12/6/2017  11:25 AM
Knixkik wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:Winning is never a bad thing. We have a good core of players. Regardless of where we pick, there will be a good player available. We need to draft well and develop what we have. Expect ups and downs.

We don't have a good young core, we have a suspect young core. DOTSON, FRANK, WILLY, BAKER, do any of these guy look like they can start on a good team, or even a bad team. These guys look like they will develop into maybe a decent bench player, if that.

When we drafted Wilson, nate, lee, danilo, ariza, those guys look nothing like the kids we have now.

Those players you mentioned other than Frank aren't core players. KP, Frank, Hardaway, and maybe Kanter are the core. The rest are just young prospects who are unknowns. Every team in the league has unknowns. I'm talking about the core players, meaning the players we are building around. I am not sure why you think anyone is judging Baker, Willy, Dotson as starting players.

I would have traded fro Bledsoe, all though I wouldn't have included frank, but willy and a 1st pick absolutely..

ES
This is sink or swim time (aka tank or no tank)

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