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Frank should be playing in the g league
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knicks1248
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12/5/2017  7:04 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
martin wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
Nalod wrote:when fans think they know better than the pro's.

DOes anyone think that rookies are inconsistent, have to deal with injuries, have bad games, but can in time assimilate then produce?
Or is that not a valid concept UNTIL IT HAPPENS?
THis is what rebuilding looks like. Its messy!!!!
I feel bad for Briggs kids! Parenting with such a short view must be hard.


Yeah a long term view would have him in the D league practicing against a level he can handle. We missed on Smith and Mitchell-- lets sck it up and get him to the D league where he can learn.

So your general assumption here is that because a player is not playing up to some standard level he is NOT learning? You can't learn in practice, with vets, playing real NBA minutes? But in G-League you will pick up the necessary stuff?

He needs to play at a lower level like most 19 year olds. He's not ready for nba basketball-- he needs to learn the pg position-- he's regressed. He needs several games in the dleague where he can play 40 minutes. 99.999999999999999999 of kids at 19 are in college. He's just not nba ready


But sessions, Baker, and Jack aren't ready for NBA basketball either. Timmy Hardaway plays PG for 48 mpg?

Do you feel the same way about frank as you did about KP after his 1st month in the league?

franks numbers are almost identical to what he avg last season overseas.


You asking me or Briggs? I'm not the one who said to send Frank down. I'm not sure what first month stuff you're referring to with KP though. He averaged 14 points, 10 rebounds, 2 blocks a game in November of his rookie year.

what I'm saying is, you knew right off the bat that Kp was going to be a special player sooner than later. The fact that he left the knicks alone this summer and came back much better, and frank work with the knicks all summer, and looks no different than he did last season, stat wise, and skills. He started the season playing on instinct and talent, now he is thinking too much, looks timid, and has a different release on every one of his jumpers, which is why he's bricking them .

ES
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Bonn1997
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12/5/2017  7:13 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
martin wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
Nalod wrote:when fans think they know better than the pro's.

DOes anyone think that rookies are inconsistent, have to deal with injuries, have bad games, but can in time assimilate then produce?
Or is that not a valid concept UNTIL IT HAPPENS?
THis is what rebuilding looks like. Its messy!!!!
I feel bad for Briggs kids! Parenting with such a short view must be hard.


Yeah a long term view would have him in the D league practicing against a level he can handle. We missed on Smith and Mitchell-- lets sck it up and get him to the D league where he can learn.

So your general assumption here is that because a player is not playing up to some standard level he is NOT learning? You can't learn in practice, with vets, playing real NBA minutes? But in G-League you will pick up the necessary stuff?

He needs to play at a lower level like most 19 year olds. He's not ready for nba basketball-- he needs to learn the pg position-- he's regressed. He needs several games in the dleague where he can play 40 minutes. 99.999999999999999999 of kids at 19 are in college. He's just not nba ready


But sessions, Baker, and Jack aren't ready for NBA basketball either. Timmy Hardaway plays PG for 48 mpg?

Do you feel the same way about frank as you did about KP after his 1st month in the league?

franks numbers are almost identical to what he avg last season overseas.


You asking me or Briggs? I'm not the one who said to send Frank down. I'm not sure what first month stuff you're referring to with KP though. He averaged 14 points, 10 rebounds, 2 blocks a game in November of his rookie year.

what I'm saying is, you knew right off the bat that Kp was going to be a special player sooner than later. The fact that he left the knicks alone this summer and came back much better, and frank work with the knicks all summer, and looks no different than he did last season, stat wise, and skills. He started the season playing on instinct and talent, now he is thinking too much, looks timid, and has a different release on every one of his jumpers, which is why he's bricking them .

Oh I completely misunderstood what you were saying. No one expects Frank to get to KP's level.

BigDaddyG
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12/5/2017  7:42 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
martin wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
Nalod wrote:when fans think they know better than the pro's.

DOes anyone think that rookies are inconsistent, have to deal with injuries, have bad games, but can in time assimilate then produce?
Or is that not a valid concept UNTIL IT HAPPENS?
THis is what rebuilding looks like. Its messy!!!!
I feel bad for Briggs kids! Parenting with such a short view must be hard.


Yeah a long term view would have him in the D league practicing against a level he can handle. We missed on Smith and Mitchell-- lets sck it up and get him to the D league where he can learn.

So your general assumption here is that because a player is not playing up to some standard level he is NOT learning? You can't learn in practice, with vets, playing real NBA minutes? But in G-League you will pick up the necessary stuff?

He needs to play at a lower level like most 19 year olds. He's not ready for nba basketball-- he needs to learn the pg position-- he's regressed. He needs several games in the dleague where he can play 40 minutes. 99.999999999999999999 of kids at 19 are in college. He's just not nba ready? I can put 100 college guards who will never make the nba who can easily do what frank is doing-- is that a reason to be getting the pt? He needs it but the d league would be more constructive

Do we know that this would be better for his long term development than playing 20mins a game vs NBA comp? While being monitored by an NBA head coach? Is there a study or something that shows that G-league is the better route? Players who get sent down are usually sent down since they get no PT. But Frank is getting 20mins a night. And has played majority of his mins in the 4th quarter. Is that better for his long term development even if the results don't meet the expectations of patientless Knick fans?


Yes, it is better. We're developing our young people. Yes, it made sense to send Dotson down because he was way down on the depth chart. The speed and physical nature of the NBA are way different than it is in the G-League. Frank is getting minutes, so leave him. This is what player development is.
What's the rush? You guys clamoring for that 8th seed so badly. We are not just an average point guard away. We're playing shooting guards at SF, our best defensive forward is like phone with a faulty digitizer-sometimes he flickers on, most times he craps out, we don't have a reliable secondary scorer, our cap space is compromised for the near future, etc. It's gonna take time no matter what we do. We mind as well develop Frank.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
HofstraBBall
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12/5/2017  8:37 PM
EnySpree wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:He’s progressively getting worse. He’s lost any of the pg aspects we saw early— he can’t shoot- he’s just not an nba player right now

No secret...I was not a fan of the pick (And not because I hate the Kid but because he was a Trinagle/Phil pick), but I dont think he is anywhere near the point of needing to go to the G league. Besides, that is saved for players that are not able to get any considerable playing time in the Pros. He has good form on shots and can drive, just think he lacks the confidence. Think JH needs to force him to be more agressive. Thats if thats what they really think he should be doing right now. No siren call from me yet.

Going to the g league helped Dotson.... I forgot his quote but he said he benefited from going down there. Frank needs to learn how to score. Seeing guys that are hungry as want his spot should wake him up. Trey Burke needs a shot at the big team.

Hard to say if it would help. Think Dotson is a different example as he was never really thought of as a top rotation player nor our Lottery pick. Sending Frank down there may hurt his confidence even more. And again, as long as he is getting minutes, he is learning. He may not be what some on here hoped or hyped him up to be but he has not hurt the team. IMO

Melo Haters = Lin lovers who are mad Houston paid so much for his 15 Minutes,
newyorknewyork
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12/5/2017  9:54 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
martin wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
Nalod wrote:when fans think they know better than the pro's.

DOes anyone think that rookies are inconsistent, have to deal with injuries, have bad games, but can in time assimilate then produce?
Or is that not a valid concept UNTIL IT HAPPENS?
THis is what rebuilding looks like. Its messy!!!!
I feel bad for Briggs kids! Parenting with such a short view must be hard.


Yeah a long term view would have him in the D league practicing against a level he can handle. We missed on Smith and Mitchell-- lets sck it up and get him to the D league where he can learn.

So your general assumption here is that because a player is not playing up to some standard level he is NOT learning? You can't learn in practice, with vets, playing real NBA minutes? But in G-League you will pick up the necessary stuff?

He needs to play at a lower level like most 19 year olds. He's not ready for nba basketball-- he needs to learn the pg position-- he's regressed. He needs several games in the dleague where he can play 40 minutes. 99.999999999999999999 of kids at 19 are in college. He's just not nba ready


But sessions, Baker, and Jack aren't ready for NBA basketball either. Timmy Hardaway plays PG for 48 mpg?

Do you feel the same way about frank as you did about KP after his 1st month in the league?

franks numbers are almost identical to what he avg last season overseas.


You asking me or Briggs? I'm not the one who said to send Frank down. I'm not sure what first month stuff you're referring to with KP though. He averaged 14 points, 10 rebounds, 2 blocks a game in November of his rookie year.

what I'm saying is, you knew right off the bat that Kp was going to be a special player sooner than later. The fact that he left the knicks alone this summer and came back much better, and frank work with the knicks all summer, and looks no different than he did last season, stat wise, and skills. He started the season playing on instinct and talent, now he is thinking too much, looks timid, and has a different release on every one of his jumpers, which is why he's bricking them .

I mean Frank worked with Chris Brickley. He is pretty credible. KP is going into his 3rd yr in the league. Not comparing him to Frank saying his progression probably had more to do with that then him going overseas.

Frank is a rookie who will have an up and down season. As I've read another poster post. Frank was drafted for what he could become not for what he is currently.

knicks1248
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12/5/2017  10:00 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/5/2017  10:02 PM
To that end, Budenholzer told Hardaway the Hawks wanted to send him down to the D-League to have a chance to work on his defensive effort.

"At the end of the day if you want to be on the court with a good team and play at a high level," Budenholzer said, "commitment to defense is just mandatory."

After spending two seasons in the NBA, being told he needed to go to the D-League made Hardaway, the son of the five-time All-Star point guard, re-examine the arc of his career.

"It was tough," Hardaway said. "It made me feel like a rookie again. It made me realize the position I’m in, and made me realize, 'Hey you gotta work. Nothing is given to you, everything is earned.' It hurt a lot when he told me I wasn’t playing for the first 20-something games. But it fueled me to become a better person, to become more mature and a better player."

Budenholzer said the Hawks were heartened by Hardaway's response.

To sit up here and think that a rookie average anemic numbers and shooting bricks won't benefit. That gives you a good indication why this franchise is dead last in the development department.

Look at Baker and Willy, do they look any better than last season, in fact, they look worse

ES
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12/5/2017  10:02 PM
Plus... he's been battling some injuries. No doubt, it's a little irksome watching the subpar PG play. To be honest, I thought the Knicks would be playing more dual PG sets to take the pressure off Frank.

With THJr out, the Knicks are really exposed at the moment.

Just another thought regarding Frank: there have been very few successful 6'5" PGs in the NBA. Let's accept the possibility that his position in his prime will not be PG. (Jamal Crawford ultimately saw the most success as a one-dimensional scoring 6th man with the Clippers, giving up PG altogether)

We figured he was still growing and could be a 6'7" before all is said and done. If he doesn't make any adjustments, his handle and passing should be above average for a wing.

Let's say he doesn't develop as an NBA PG... what is he, is he the next Andre Roberson - a wing that can't shoot? Or the finesse version version of Marcus Smart?


But forgetting that for a moment... Frank is a rookie... he's had a chain of injuries since days before he was drafted, let's offer him some patience.

I completely agree that at the moment we don't really have a top-30 PG on our roster (aka a starter) at the moment, but this is what the Knicks signed up for, because the team believed that in a year or two Ntilikina could develop into just that.

I reckon the point of this thread is an answer on how to get Ntilikina from point A to point B. I suppose we're saying that within a year, we want Frank to play minimally like Ramon Sessions in his prime, a mediocre NBA PG. The challenge is that playing against NBA beastin' PGs is not doing good things for his confidence, and that getting reps in the G league might allow his game to develop better against less talented competition.

Kevin Dolorico | "That was two, two from the heart." - John Starks
knicks1248
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12/5/2017  10:30 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
martin wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
Nalod wrote:when fans think they know better than the pro's.

DOes anyone think that rookies are inconsistent, have to deal with injuries, have bad games, but can in time assimilate then produce?
Or is that not a valid concept UNTIL IT HAPPENS?
THis is what rebuilding looks like. Its messy!!!!
I feel bad for Briggs kids! Parenting with such a short view must be hard.


Yeah a long term view would have him in the D league practicing against a level he can handle. We missed on Smith and Mitchell-- lets sck it up and get him to the D league where he can learn.

So your general assumption here is that because a player is not playing up to some standard level he is NOT learning? You can't learn in practice, with vets, playing real NBA minutes? But in G-League you will pick up the necessary stuff?

He needs to play at a lower level like most 19 year olds. He's not ready for nba basketball-- he needs to learn the pg position-- he's regressed. He needs several games in the dleague where he can play 40 minutes. 99.999999999999999999 of kids at 19 are in college. He's just not nba ready


But sessions, Baker, and Jack aren't ready for NBA basketball either. Timmy Hardaway plays PG for 48 mpg?

Do you feel the same way about frank as you did about KP after his 1st month in the league?

franks numbers are almost identical to what he avg last season overseas.


You asking me or Briggs? I'm not the one who said to send Frank down. I'm not sure what first month stuff you're referring to with KP though. He averaged 14 points, 10 rebounds, 2 blocks a game in November of his rookie year.

what I'm saying is, you knew right off the bat that Kp was going to be a special player sooner than later. The fact that he left the knicks alone this summer and came back much better, and frank work with the knicks all summer, and looks no different than he did last season, stat wise, and skills. He started the season playing on instinct and talent, now he is thinking too much, looks timid, and has a different release on every one of his jumpers, which is why he's bricking them .

I mean Frank worked with Chris Brickley. He is pretty credible. KP is going into his 3rd yr in the league. Not comparing him to Frank saying his progression probably had more to do with that then him going overseas.

Frank is a rookie who will have an up and down season. As I've read another poster post. Frank was drafted for what he could become not for what he is currently.


Then why not send him down for a few games, he is a lottery pick, you expect production out of a lottery pick.

The knicks seem to use their G league team to send players down to keep from getting rusty, not for actual development.

Aside from Langston Galloway, what other player has actually made it on to their nba roster (outside of a cameo apparence)since it's existence

ES
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12/5/2017  10:33 PM
Aside from the fact that he’s playing against some of the best players in the league, like Hardin, Westbrook etc., I can name three other reasons: Courtney Lee, Jarrett Jack and Jeffrey Hornachek. All three conduct themselves professionally and mentor Frank. If he couldn’t play D I’d say send him. Yet this summer he has a lot of work to do offensively and on his shot particularly. His release is slow.
BigDaddyG
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12/5/2017  11:36 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
martin wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
Nalod wrote:when fans think they know better than the pro's.

DOes anyone think that rookies are inconsistent, have to deal with injuries, have bad games, but can in time assimilate then produce?
Or is that not a valid concept UNTIL IT HAPPENS?
THis is what rebuilding looks like. Its messy!!!!
I feel bad for Briggs kids! Parenting with such a short view must be hard.


Yeah a long term view would have him in the D league practicing against a level he can handle. We missed on Smith and Mitchell-- lets sck it up and get him to the D league where he can learn.

So your general assumption here is that because a player is not playing up to some standard level he is NOT learning? You can't learn in practice, with vets, playing real NBA minutes? But in G-League you will pick up the necessary stuff?

He needs to play at a lower level like most 19 year olds. He's not ready for nba basketball-- he needs to learn the pg position-- he's regressed. He needs several games in the dleague where he can play 40 minutes. 99.999999999999999999 of kids at 19 are in college. He's just not nba ready


But sessions, Baker, and Jack aren't ready for NBA basketball either. Timmy Hardaway plays PG for 48 mpg?

Do you feel the same way about frank as you did about KP after his 1st month in the league?

franks numbers are almost identical to what he avg last season overseas.


You asking me or Briggs? I'm not the one who said to send Frank down. I'm not sure what first month stuff you're referring to with KP though. He averaged 14 points, 10 rebounds, 2 blocks a game in November of his rookie year.

what I'm saying is, you knew right off the bat that Kp was going to be a special player sooner than later. The fact that he left the knicks alone this summer and came back much better, and frank work with the knicks all summer, and looks no different than he did last season, stat wise, and skills. He started the season playing on instinct and talent, now he is thinking too much, looks timid, and has a different release on every one of his jumpers, which is why he's bricking them .

I mean Frank worked with Chris Brickley. He is pretty credible. KP is going into his 3rd yr in the league. Not comparing him to Frank saying his progression probably had more to do with that then him going overseas.

Frank is a rookie who will have an up and down season. As I've read another poster post. Frank was drafted for what he could become not for what he is currently.


Then why not send him down for a few games, he is a lottery pick, you expect production out of a lottery pick.

The knicks seem to use their G league team to send players down to keep from getting rusty, not for actual development.

Aside from Langston Galloway, what other player has actually made it on to their nba roster (outside of a cameo apparence)since it's existence


Wrong take to have. The position a guy's taken in the lottery, especially in the mid to late lottery, has more to do with potential than their ability to help form the get-go. I think what kills a player's development is when front offices expect immediate return from player's and lose patience. He's currently getting quality minutes as a role player. He's getting a first-hand look at the things he needs to develop. The G-League is nice, but it's not a prerequisite for anything. If Trey Burke and Jimmer can dominate, that tells me the level a play is nothing compared to an NBA practice.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
Nalod
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12/6/2017  8:35 AM
How many games did Dotson get DNP’s with Knicks?
How many games has he played in the Gleague? 4. AVG 18 pts.
What he said “Made him better!”. Good. Team player.
Now he is playing in the NBA. Good.
Frank has played in games he is not injured. In the NBA.
HIs stats are the same as last year? That’s freaking great BTW. Goes from Pro French league as 18 year old and year later is playing the same in the NBA. That’s not a bad thing. He is a prospect. He is potential. This is rebuilding. Future uncertain until evident.
Anger sells, don't buy!
Frank should be playing in the g league

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