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New high caliber freshmen has to be on Knicks target list
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BRIGGS
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12/11/2017  8:21 PM
TripleThreat wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:From what I have seen so far

this is what Id go top 3

Lock #1 pick Aayton
pick 2 Trae Young


Typically a player projected in the 2nd round but excels, esp in the NCAA Tournament, can sometimes push into the late first round. Sometimes a projected late first rounder can push his way to the 12-15 range. Sometimes a player in the 12-15 range can move into the 8-10 range. Sometimes a player in the 8-10 range can move into the top 3 range.

What you don't see happening is a guy projected to be a late first rounder, WHEN HIS DRAFT CLASSES PROJECTED POSITIONAL VALUE IS WEAK, driving up all the way to a high lottery pick. It just doesn't happen.

This isn't a great year for PG prospects, thus Young will get a little extra burn. You don't seem to be taking that into account. Also all the shots he's getting now, he's not going to get against superior NBA level competition. You don't seem to be taking that into account either.

Wings and pivots will get a positional value bump up the general draft boards, thus driving a guy like Young down a little bit further.

Kid has had a couple of nice games. You don't propose to a girl after one great blowjob.

TT--there are plenty of players every year that skyrocket up the ranks. Steph Curry of the top of my head was not a high lottery pick in his sophomore year or the beginning of his junior year. There are so many names I could put in here year by year????

In this case i hope Young stays down a bit.

AUTOADVERT
Paris907
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12/12/2017  8:01 AM
TripleThreat wrote:
Paris907 wrote:Always looking to penetrate and take it to the hole.....

You've just described every 16 year old teenage boy in America.

(Drumroll....)

Actually Young is a good shooter with pretty advanced court vision for his level. He'll likely project out as a 4th guard as a matchup play because he's small and, when put relative to the NBA level of talent, slow.

Knicks really need to focus on guys with an actual bedrock of defensive prowess that can translate to the modern game and then see if other aspects of the players game can be developed.

He's also what the Sloan Sports Conference would call a "contrast player" i.e. his stock is relative to the existing draft class in place. Case in point, Mark Sanchez should NOT have been a first round pick. And he would not have been in many other drafts. But scarcity at the position specific to that year changed some of that dynamic.

There are other years Young would be a UDFA. But not in this class.

Knicks just need guys with length who can defend the wing more than anything else to start. You can develop long range shooting over time. It's not easy, but it's feasible. Guys who are too short and too slow, don't magically become taller and faster.

He’s an outstanding shooter but my point was merely that he doesn’t settle for the jumper.
With Jack/Baker/Dotson/Frank/Sessions/THJr he would be a welcome addition yet whose minutes is he taking once Jack and Sessions are gone? Our group of youth - other than Dotson- haven’t proven themselves to be marksman so as alluring a accurate gunner and pg is, we need a 3 more and I’ve said a 5 as I expect both KOQ and Kanter to be gone.

Paris907
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12/12/2017  8:08 AM
TripleThreat wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:From what I have seen so far

this is what Id go top 3

Lock #1 pick Aayton
pick 2 Trae Young


Typically a player projected in the 2nd round but excels, esp in the NCAA Tournament, can sometimes push into the late first round. Sometimes a projected late first rounder can push his way to the 12-15 range. Sometimes a player in the 12-15 range can move into the 8-10 range. Sometimes a player in the 8-10 range can move into the top 3 range.

What you don't see happening is a guy projected to be a late first rounder, WHEN HIS DRAFT CLASSES PROJECTED POSITIONAL VALUE IS WEAK, driving up all the way to a high lottery pick. It just doesn't happen.

This isn't a great year for PG prospects, thus Young will get a little extra burn. You don't seem to be taking that into account. Also all the shots he's getting now, he's not going to get against superior NBA level competition. You don't seem to be taking that into account either.

Wings and pivots will get a positional value bump up the general draft boards, thus driving a guy like Young down a little bit further.

Kid has had a couple of nice games. You don't propose to a girl after one great blowjob.

While I appreciate you assuming he won’t get his jumper off at th pro level, I beg to differ. His range will allow him to get his jumper off and he will have screens as well. He’s very fluid out there and often Feigns a jumper from the top of the key, has the defender leaning in and then takes it out an extra 5-6 feet. In the playoffs it would be tougher but can you imagine this kid as a 6th man? He’d fill it up in a heartbeat.

Bretrobert1
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12/13/2017  9:39 AM
BRIGGS wrote:The one type of player that can change fortunes of a franchise is one that can run the game from 35 feet— trae young can do that. He’s a must see

He's a solid player, no doubt. On a college board I follow, I recently said he reminds me of a less-disciplined, trigger-happy Tyus Jones. Oklahoma plays Wichita State Saturday. Will be interesting to see how Young plays against Landry Shamet. Shamet is an interesting prospect, as well.

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BRIGGS
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12/13/2017  10:57 AM    LAST EDITED: 12/13/2017  11:09 AM
Bretrobert1 wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:The one type of player that can change fortunes of a franchise is one that can run the game from 35 feet— trae young can do that. He’s a must see

He's a solid player, no doubt. On a college board I follow, I recently said he reminds me of a less-disciplined, trigger-happy Tyus Jones. Oklahoma plays Wichita State Saturday. Will be interesting to see how Young plays against Landry Shamet. Shamet is an interesting prospect, as well.

I dont see any comparison at all? I dont think Tyus Jones could do what Young is doing. Right now in terms of college hes a top 5 franchise player--not saying NBA but college. He is the engine to their prolific offense and is avg 30-10?

Player Efficiency Rating
1. Trae Young Oklahoma 36.6
2. Chris Cokley Alabama-Birmingham 34.8
3. Jessie Govan Georgetown 34.1
4. Ajdin Penava Marshall 33.9
5. Nick King Middle Tennessee 33.7
6. Jock Landale Saint Mary's (CA) 33.6
7. Bonzie Colson Notre Dame 33.4
8. DeAndre Ayton Arizona 32.8
9. Jakeenan Gant Louisiana-Lafayette 32.7
10. Doral Moore Wake Forest 32.1
11. Lennard Freeman North Carolina State 32.1
12. Akolda Manyang Utah Valley 32.0
13. Jordan Murphy Minnesota 31.6
14. Matt Scott Niagara 31.3
15. Marvin Bagley III Duke 31.3
16. Devontae Cacok North Carolina-Wilmington 31.2
17. Kerry Blackshear Jr. Virginia Tech 31.2
18. Fletcher Magee Wofford 31.1
19. Isaac Haas Purdue 30.7--he reminds me a lot of Brook Lopez--a bit bigger at 7-2 295
20. Nathan Knight William & Mary 30.4

Bretrobert1
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12/13/2017  11:36 AM
The highlight video you posted of Young is nice, but look at his game tapes where they show his turnovers as well as bad shots, too. He's definitely fun to watch, but he's not going in the top 10. A lot of what he gets away with in college won't come close to working in the League. I do like his quick release and his ability to create with his drible/drive hesitation.

Again, the matchup with Shamet will be one to watch. Personally, I think Shamet is a better player.

Also, I'm a Purdue fan. I'm very familiar with Haas. He, too, is a nice college player, but lacks a lot of attributes needed to even see the floor for spare minutes in the NBA. He's a back to the basket player that lacks explosiveness to finish against better competition. He'd also really struggle guarding 5's at a higher level. If he gets drafted, it will be very late in the second round.

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BRIGGS
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12/13/2017  11:59 AM    LAST EDITED: 12/13/2017  12:04 PM
Bretrobert1 wrote:The highlight video you posted of Young is nice, but look at his game tapes where they show his turnovers as well as bad shots, too. He's definitely fun to watch, but he's not going in the top 10. A lot of what he gets away with in college won't come close to working in the League. I do like his quick release and his ability to create with his drible/drive hesitation.

Again, the matchup with Shamet will be one to watch. Personally, I think Shamet is a better player.

Also, I'm a Purdue fan. I'm very familiar with Haas. He, too, is a nice college player, but lacks a lot of attributes needed to even see the floor for spare minutes in the NBA. He's a back to the basket player that lacks explosiveness to finish against better competition. He'd also really struggle guarding 5's at a higher level. If he gets drafted, it will be very late in the second round.

I was talking Jones/Young. Shamet is an NBA 1st round pick. Im not sure if hes in any mocks but there will be more than 1 NBA team who likes him in rd 1 almost how Derrick White shot up last year into rd 1 last year. Im not disagreeing with you about Shamet--I dont think Trae Young and Jones are the same player.

To go a little further about guys like Mikal Bridges and Shamet--these guys developed into NBA draft picks. I just think most of these 18-19 year olds are not ready for the nBA.

BRIGGS
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12/13/2017  7:14 PM
Bretrobert1 wrote:The highlight video you posted of Young is nice, but look at his game tapes where they show his turnovers as well as bad shots, too. He's definitely fun to watch, but he's not going in the top 10. A lot of what he gets away with in college won't come close to working in the League. I do like his quick release and his ability to create with his drible/drive hesitation.

Again, the matchup with Shamet will be one to watch. Personally, I think Shamet is a better player.

Also, I'm a Purdue fan. I'm very familiar with Haas. He, too, is a nice college player, but lacks a lot of attributes needed to even see the floor for spare minutes in the NBA. He's a back to the basket player that lacks explosiveness to finish against better competition. He'd also really struggle guarding 5's at a higher level. If he gets drafted, it will be very late in the second round.

I missed your comment on Haas. First off I appreciate talking about players that no one else has talked about. Its these type of players that some time can really help teams. Its easy to follow a draft site and the top 10 picks harder to actually watch games and find players.

I think in sports bigger faster stronger almost always counts. At any measurement Haas might become the strongest biggest player in the NBA at 7- 2 300. Its not a stiff 7-2 300 either. His per 40 minute stats have been good his whole career and consistent the last 3. Hes a guy who knows post moves has touch and once he gets that position--no one on the earth can move him out.

Now its funny talking about a monster like this after saying --hey maybe a smaller(6-9 245 C without diversity might be the best type of C next to KP) but lets agree here--a coordinated 7-2 300 pound basketball player with skills has a great chance of being on an NBA team and potentially making an impact.

BRIGGS
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12/13/2017  8:45 PM
Jalen Brunson hardly ever misses a shot or makes a bad play. Every time I watch him--hes like the Tim Duncan of guards--hes very efficient at the college level. Shot more 3's tonight and barely missed.
BRIGGS
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12/14/2017  12:11 AM    LAST EDITED: 12/14/2017  12:12 AM
Jalen Brunson--next Isiaah Thomas(taller version of the Clev guard)?
He now has an efg of 72% through 11 games.

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12/14/2017  1:26 AM
Briggs,

I've watched Isaac Haas play close to 100 games over the last 4 years. Purdue has became somewhat of a Big Man U with the likes of Carl Landry, Jajuan Johnson, AJ Hammons, Biggie Swanigan and now Haas. Compare him to Brook Lopez all you want, but he isn't nearly as polished and lacks NBA movement/athleticism. I agree, he has a freak body, has nice touch, and this year has developed a nice little left handed bank; but again, he lacks natural mobility and athleticim on both ends of the court. Against better college bigs, several times a game he'll get the ball inside for a flush and either get ripped of the ball or just not convert on what should be and-1 type opportunities. He just lacks quick-step explosiveness, which deters his defense as well. Actually, Purdue has a 7'3" freshman from the Netherlands, Matt Haarms, that is probably a bigger NBA prospect (down the road) than Haas. Just look at their blocks per game for reference.. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of Haas, and appreciate his contribution to the Boilermakers, but at the same time, I'm also a realist.

Now Jalen Brunson, OTOH. That's a player I like at the next level, in a value type of way. Big time recruit coming out of high school and has had a nice career at Nova. Kinda has the Josh Hart effect going on, in that he is a highly regarded college player who's game might not convert to the League as well for whatever reason. However, if I'm a GM I"d give a guy like that a chance. BTW, I'm a huge fan of Josh Hart, as well.

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BRIGGS
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12/14/2017  2:36 AM
Bretrobert1 wrote:Briggs,

I've watched Isaac Haas play close to 100 games over the last 4 years. Purdue has became somewhat of a Big Man U with the likes of Carl Landry, Jajuan Johnson, AJ Hammons, Biggie Swanigan and now Haas. Compare him to Brook Lopez all you want, but he isn't nearly as polished and lacks NBA movement/athleticism. I agree, he has a freak body, has nice touch, and this year has developed a nice little left handed bank; but again, he lacks natural mobility and athleticim on both ends of the court. Against better college bigs, several times a game he'll get the ball inside for a flush and either get ripped of the ball or just not convert on what should be and-1 type opportunities. He just lacks quick-step explosiveness, which deters his defense as well. Actually, Purdue has a 7'3" freshman from the Netherlands, Matt Haarms, that is probably a bigger NBA prospect (down the road) than Haas. Just look at their blocks per game for reference.. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of Haas, and appreciate his contribution to the Boilermakers, but at the same time, I'm also a realist.

Now Jalen Brunson, OTOH. That's a player I like at the next level, in a value type of way. Big time recruit coming out of high school and has had a nice career at Nova. Kinda has the Josh Hart effect going on, in that he is a highly regarded college player who's game might not convert to the League as well for whatever reason. However, if I'm a GM I"d give a guy like that a chance. BTW, I'm a huge fan of Josh Hart, as well.

Heres a few points youre selling short
First off he can shoot--hes 7-2 295 and hes got good hands and touch. In the NBA he can expand that to the mid range and maybe even beyond--but I think hes a guy who has some goods you cant teach. Hes not in the "big" era anymore--but hell be somewhere in the NBA for a long time. Even today you can teach that size--and than that size has some skill!

Look at the post move at 1:24--thats NBA.

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12/14/2017  10:04 AM
"Heres a few points youre selling short
First off he can shoot--hes 7-2 295 and hes got good hands and touch. In the NBA he can expand that to the mid range and maybe even beyond--but I think hes a guy who has some goods you cant teach. Hes not in the "big" era anymore--but hell be somewhere in the NBA for a long time. Even today you can teach that size--and than that size has some skill!
Look at the post move at 1:24--thats NBA."

Briggs,

I honestly don't think I'm selling Haas short at all. Don't get me wrong, I'm not at all trying to rip him in any way, as I think he's an incredible asset to Purdue; but when it comes to playing in the NBA, that's going to be a real severe slope to climb for him.

As to your points above, he's got decent hands--but like I mentioned before, he gets ripped a lot in the post. Yes, he has nice touch and is a good FT shooter, but he absolutely won't develop an NBA type mid-range game or beyond. He doesn't have that type of fluidity. If you looked at his shot chart, 95% of his shots are within 5 feet for a reason. He's not the type of player that can get off his own shot or score off of quick screens and pops. Where he excels in Purdue's motion offense, is when Purdue is moving well on the perimeter and he gets quick dumps into the post and utilizes a nice spin to the basket. This year, he's developed a nice little left handed bank off that spin. Purdue has one of the smartest, best passing guards in the country in Dakota Mathias, who brings the best out of Haas.

Again, that's another nice highlight video you attached-against one of the worst teams in college hoops last season. Biggie Swanigan basically had a 20/20 game in the first half alone that same game.

I, too, enjoy looking into quality, under-looked college players that can potentially make the leap to the NBA. And actually, I tried posting on here a few times the last couple years on threads like these, but I just found out the other day that you needed to email the moderator to open up the ability to post. One of the players I tried posting info about during his Sr season was actually Ron Baker.

Who else you got? I follow all college ball, but am most in tune w/ the Big 10.

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BRIGGS
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12/14/2017  11:23 AM
Bretrobert1 wrote:"Heres a few points youre selling short
First off he can shoot--hes 7-2 295 and hes got good hands and touch. In the NBA he can expand that to the mid range and maybe even beyond--but I think hes a guy who has some goods you cant teach. Hes not in the "big" era anymore--but hell be somewhere in the NBA for a long time. Even today you can teach that size--and than that size has some skill!
Look at the post move at 1:24--thats NBA."

Briggs,

I honestly don't think I'm selling Haas short at all. Don't get me wrong, I'm not at all trying to rip him in any way, as I think he's an incredible asset to Purdue; but when it comes to playing in the NBA, that's going to be a real severe slope to climb for him.

As to your points above, he's got decent hands--but like I mentioned before, he gets ripped a lot in the post. Yes, he has nice touch and is a good FT shooter, but he absolutely won't develop an NBA type mid-range game or beyond. He doesn't have that type of fluidity. If you looked at his shot chart, 95% of his shots are within 5 feet for a reason. He's not the type of player that can get off his own shot or score off of quick screens and pops. Where he excels in Purdue's motion offense, is when Purdue is moving well on the perimeter and he gets quick dumps into the post and utilizes a nice spin to the basket. This year, he's developed a nice little left handed bank off that spin. Purdue has one of the smartest, best passing guards in the country in Dakota Mathias, who brings the best out of Haas.

Again, that's another nice highlight video you attached-against one of the worst teams in college hoops last season. Biggie Swanigan basically had a 20/20 game in the first half alone that same game.

I, too, enjoy looking into quality, under-looked college players that can potentially make the leap to the NBA. And actually, I tried posting on here a few times the last couple years on threads like these, but I just found out the other day that you needed to email the moderator to open up the ability to post. One of the players I tried posting info about during his Sr season was actually Ron Baker.

Who else you got? I follow all college ball, but am most in tune w/ the Big 10.

late 2nd to udrafted Kenrich Williams F maybe even some 2guard 3-4-2 3 and D good size 6-8 215

#34

BRIGGS
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12/14/2017  12:28 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
Bretrobert1 wrote:"Heres a few points youre selling short
First off he can shoot--hes 7-2 295 and hes got good hands and touch. In the NBA he can expand that to the mid range and maybe even beyond--but I think hes a guy who has some goods you cant teach. Hes not in the "big" era anymore--but hell be somewhere in the NBA for a long time. Even today you can teach that size--and than that size has some skill!
Look at the post move at 1:24--thats NBA."

Briggs,

I honestly don't think I'm selling Haas short at all. Don't get me wrong, I'm not at all trying to rip him in any way, as I think he's an incredible asset to Purdue; but when it comes to playing in the NBA, that's going to be a real severe slope to climb for him.

As to your points above, he's got decent hands--but like I mentioned before, he gets ripped a lot in the post. Yes, he has nice touch and is a good FT shooter, but he absolutely won't develop an NBA type mid-range game or beyond. He doesn't have that type of fluidity. If you looked at his shot chart, 95% of his shots are within 5 feet for a reason. He's not the type of player that can get off his own shot or score off of quick screens and pops. Where he excels in Purdue's motion offense, is when Purdue is moving well on the perimeter and he gets quick dumps into the post and utilizes a nice spin to the basket. This year, he's developed a nice little left handed bank off that spin. Purdue has one of the smartest, best passing guards in the country in Dakota Mathias, who brings the best out of Haas.

Again, that's another nice highlight video you attached-against one of the worst teams in college hoops last season. Biggie Swanigan basically had a 20/20 game in the first half alone that same game.

I, too, enjoy looking into quality, under-looked college players that can potentially make the leap to the NBA. And actually, I tried posting on here a few times the last couple years on threads like these, but I just found out the other day that you needed to email the moderator to open up the ability to post. One of the players I tried posting info about during his Sr season was actually Ron Baker.

Who else you got? I follow all college ball, but am most in tune w/ the Big 10.

late 2nd to udrafted Kenrich Williams F maybe even some 2guard 3-4-2 3 and D good size 6-8 215

#34

Same team Desmond Bane SG 6-4 215

TCU is a good team very under rated.

newyorknewyork
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12/14/2017  12:50 PM
Good find. They really jump out on tape
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12/14/2017  1:38 PM
Haven't seen enough of TCU this year to comment meaningfully on Williams. But I saw he's already 23. Nice length and nice shot. Doesn't look crazy athletic or physical, though.

I am familiar with Desmond Bane. Went to a small Indiana high school and put up monster stats, but flew under the radar from a recruiting standpoint. Purdue was sniffing him a bit late into his recruitment, and some good basketball minds on the Purdue boards were hoping he'd be offered-but he wasn't. I don't think he'll be declaring anytime soon, if I had to guess.

Have you seen Xavier play much? Really like Bluiett and Macura's games. Macura, especially, if he gets in the right system, could be a nice pick-up for someone in the mid to late 2nd round.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLsq4dNBpxI

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12/16/2017  12:02 PM
A couple games to watch today: Purdue/Butler coming up here at 11 central. Purdue has some interesting potential second rounders in Haas, Edwards and a future potential draft pick in Carsen Edwards. Also, keep an eye out on their 7'3" big man Matt Haarms. Very interesting post player with a really nice motor.

Then Oklahoma at Wichita State at 3 pm. Shamet on Young.

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BRIGGS
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12/16/2017  4:48 PM
Bretrobert1 wrote:A couple games to watch today: Purdue/Butler coming up here at 11 central. Purdue has some interesting potential second rounders in Haas, Edwards and a future potential draft pick in Carsen Edwards. Also, keep an eye out on their 7'3" big man Matt Haarms. Very interesting post player with a really nice motor.

Then Oklahoma at Wichita State at 3 pm. Shamet on Young.

You still think shamet is anything close to young? Young is a top 3 pock

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12/16/2017  4:54 PM
TripleThreat wrote:
Paris907 wrote:Always looking to penetrate and take it to the hole.....

You've just described every 16 year old teenage boy in America.

(Drumroll....)

Actually Young is a good shooter with pretty advanced court vision for his level. He'll likely project out as a 4th guard as a matchup play because he's small and, when put relative to the NBA level of talent, slow.

Knicks really need to focus on guys with an actual bedrock of defensive prowess that can translate to the modern game and then see if other aspects of the players game can be developed.

He's also what the Sloan Sports Conference would call a "contrast player" i.e. his stock is relative to the existing draft class in place. Case in point, Mark Sanchez should NOT have been a first round pick. And he would not have been in many other drafts. But scarcity at the position specific to that year changed some of that dynamic.

There are other years Young would be a UDFA. But not in this class.

Knicks just need guys with length who can defend the wing more than anything else to start. You can develop long range shooting over time. It's not easy, but it's feasible. Guys who are too short and too slow, don't magically become taller and faster.

Yeah TT another good one-- young a udfa


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