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2018 offseason
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nyknickzingis
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12/2/2017  7:50 AM    LAST EDITED: 12/2/2017  7:53 AM
Kanter's play this season has made him a core player.
I worry if he can keep this up into a longterm contract.
However the passion Kanter and Hardaway bring to the club is a joy to watch.
When your highest paid players play with that intensity, everyone else follows.

I think we should try to keep this group together and move O'Quinn for longterm asset.
The rest of the team is a group that will get better as KP, Frank, Dotson, Doug, Willy all get better with time and experience.

By next season if Frank is ready to take over for Jack, we draft an athletic 3, we're in a pretty good spot moving forward.

Kanter/Willy/Noah
Porzingis/Thomas
3/McDermott/Dotson
Hardaway/Lee
Frank/Jack/Baker

If we draft somewhere between 11 and 15, and then trade O'Quinn for a late first. Perhaps we could package the pick from a O'Quinn trade, our own pick and perhaps even Willy, for a top 6 lottery pick. This allows us to maybe make a play for a high quality young 3 such as Doncic, Porter or Knox. I think a team would be willing to move down from 6 if we offer them our own pick (11-15 range most likely), an additional pick (O'Quinn trade) and perhaps even Willy. That's alot to offer, but if we really believe in a SF like Knox, Porter or Doncic and they are there in the top 6, we should be looking to make a move like that.

I'd refrain from spending cap money on veteran free agents. I like what Mills did last offseason in going 25 and younger. Keep that same mindset.

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CrushAlot
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12/2/2017  1:10 PM
I think it will be interesting to see what the Knicks do at the trade deadline. If Noah shows he can be functional as the backup center do the Knicks look to move both Willy and Kyle? Is Kanter's back an issue that might make trading Kyle a mistake. Do the Knicks look to upgrade the point guard position and make a run at the playoffs? Do they do nothing and embrace roster continuity? Is there a young player that fills a need for the Knicks that could be acquired if they move Willy?
I think we know what we're doing..... Phil Jackson
Finestrg
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12/2/2017  7:35 PM
CrushAlot wrote:I think it will be interesting to see what the Knicks do at the trade deadline. If Noah shows he can be functional as the backup center do the Knicks look to move both Willy and Kyle? Is Kanter's back an issue that might make trading Kyle a mistake. Do the Knicks look to upgrade the point guard position and make a run at the playoffs? Do they do nothing and embrace roster continuity? Is there a young player that fills a need for the Knicks that could be acquired if they move Willy?

And don't forgot about Luke Kornet too. He's actually looked decent -- he can shoot it from deep, looks to be somewhat of a factor blocking shots and is a real good passer. If we had to dip down and promote this guy, I think he gives us more than Noah.

martin
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12/2/2017  11:46 PM
Finestrg wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:I think it will be interesting to see what the Knicks do at the trade deadline. If Noah shows he can be functional as the backup center do the Knicks look to move both Willy and Kyle? Is Kanter's back an issue that might make trading Kyle a mistake. Do the Knicks look to upgrade the point guard position and make a run at the playoffs? Do they do nothing and embrace roster continuity? Is there a young player that fills a need for the Knicks that could be acquired if they move Willy?

And don't forgot about Luke Kornet too. He's actually looked decent -- he can shoot it from deep, looks to be somewhat of a factor blocking shots and is a real good passer. If we had to dip down and promote this guy, I think he gives us more than Noah.

with a team that will have KP getting between 30-35 minutes a game, how would Kornet give the Knicks more than what a healthy Noah give the team?

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TripleThreat
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12/3/2017  12:55 AM
nyknickzingis wrote:Kanter's play this season has made him a core player.
I worry if he can keep this up into a longterm contract.......

If we draft somewhere between 11 and 15, and then trade O'Quinn for a late first. Perhaps we could package the pick from a O'Quinn trade, our own pick and perhaps even Willy, for a top 6 lottery pick. This allows us to maybe make a play for a high quality young 3 such as Doncic, Porter or Knox. I think a team would be willing to move down from 6 if we offer them our own pick (11-15 range most likely), an additional pick (O'Quinn trade) and perhaps even Willy. That's alot to offer, but if we really believe in a SF like Knox, Porter or Doncic and they are there in the top 6, we should be looking to make a move like that.

I'd refrain from spending cap money on veteran free agents. I like what Mills did last offseason in going 25 and younger. Keep that same mindset.


Kanter has a players option in the offseason. Odds are he will opt in, so I don't see the huge rush here to give him a massive extension. Let him play his two seasons as a Knick then evaluate the situation then, given the time and place.

Let's say the pick rides the middle of that projection, 13th overall. And let's say the team could get the 25th for KOQ ( they won't, but let's just say it was possible for the sake of discussion)

If the situations were reversed, would you give up a top 5-6 pick for 13th, 25th and Hernangomez?

Then why would they?

This is not the NFL, it's not MLB, you can't just run people over on volume of higher risk assets.

Something that should pop up immediately is there is no historical precedent to what you are suggesting in the modern era. The Kings and IRRC, the Trailblazers made a volume trade in the last draft, but again, it was an anomaly to actual league trends. Also it wasn't dealing a 6th overall pick, which is likely a Tier 2 first round pick.

Jerry West was interviewed years ago, and was asked what is the GM's first thought every morning. He said candidly, how to keep your job.

If GM's start making trades outside of historical precedent and out of line to actual market forces, they will get fired. Every actual trade that happens in the NBA happens with basic self preservation in mind.

Since you came on this board you have been way off in regards to trade value. - Briggs 7/28/2015
nyknickzingis
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12/3/2017  6:49 AM
Cant see Kanter pass on free agency this year.
He'll be able to get a 4 year deal with guaranteed money.
He is not a star in the sense that even if he delays a year the money is guaranteed to be there a year later. He is playing fantastic basketball right now. He's seen as a leader. Good teammate. This will all play in. I think he opts out and commands something north of 60 million.
TripleThreat
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12/3/2017  9:25 AM
nyknickzingis wrote:Cant see Kanter pass on free agency this year.
He'll be able to get a 4 year deal with guaranteed money.
He is not a star in the sense that even if he delays a year the money is guaranteed to be there a year later. He is playing fantastic basketball right now. He's seen as a leader. Good teammate. This will all play in. I think he opts out and commands something north of 60 million.

There have been some decent to pretty good big men who came into the league in the past few drafts. The value of rim protection is important, but not as scarce as it used to be ( And Kanter can't protect the rim) There are also a lot of bad contract big men teams want to dump and who will chew up the 3rd/4th big on the roster positions around the league.

Many teams are cap locked. Many will enter the tax zone. No one is going into the luxury tax for Kanter. No one is going to accelerate their repeater tax for Kanter. He's not going to see his current AAV ever again.

99 percent chance he will opt in, try to keep boosting his value, and then see how the market shakes out the offseason after next.

Most players will opt in if they have a player option and a high AAV. Noel and Caldwell Pope turned down long term money and are in a bit of limbo now. Teams see that. Players see that.

If Kanter was so palatable and useful at his current AAV, the Thunder would have had no problem trading him earlier. And they tried to trade him for a LONG TIME. It means he's overpaid to market. Which means he has every incentive to opt in, take one more big payday for next year and see what happens. He's still "young" enough where waiting one year isn't going to extensively damage his ability to try to get a four year later.

Kanter has close to no trade value. He simply does not. He was available for a reason. Guys here who think he has actual positive trade value are either misreading the market or have, sorry to say, a poor understanding of it in general.

Kanter is likely going to opt in. Could he opt out? Yes, in theory. But it would be a poor market based decision for him. Then again, he was stupid enough to attack the Utah fanbase in public, so anything is possible.

There really isn't that much money out there this coming offseason. He can't defend the rim, he's a net negative on defense, he's a blackhole on offense ( he can score, but he's not efficient) and he can't space the floor. Opting out means he might get a 2 year deal with a much lower AAV.

He's getting burn on the Knicks now because he's essentially the 2nd scoring option getting a lot of touches and using volume to his advantage. Again, he's not an all around efficient player. He does get rebounds. He can work the low post. But both elements are true in part because he doesn't do anything useful on defense. Lots of players could hoover a ton of rebounds if they had no rim protection responsibilities. Rebounding and altering shots in the vein of actual rim protection is valuable. Just raw rebounding as a counting stat at the cost of everything else is not. A pivot who has 8 rebounds and no blocks could have actually had a bigger game impact than a guy with 15 rebounds and 3 blocks.

He's played well so far, in a HANDFUL OF GAMES.

Do you know what "hogging" is all about.

It's about a single dude in a slump for banging chicks. So he gets easy low resistant chicks because he's "thirsty", basically he's banging fat chicks. I.E. "hogging"

A lot of Knicks fans are "thirsty" It's been a long dry spell to see a player who seems to actually give a ****. It's also nice to see some effort, team ball and a few wins after some ugly years. It's nice to see a player show some grit rather than the stupid hat Melo shotjacker routine.

Giving Kanter a huge extension after just a handful of games with effort is basically going "hogging" and then deciding to give the chick an engagement ring. No one else wanted Kanter in a trade for a reason. No one is going out of their way to marry a land whale for a reason.

He's going to likely opt in, let him, then see how it goes. He then has every incentive to keep playing hard. How many guys stop playing hard in the NBA once they get paid?

Since you came on this board you have been way off in regards to trade value. - Briggs 7/28/2015
Nalod
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12/3/2017  10:08 AM
martin wrote:
Finestrg wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:I think it will be interesting to see what the Knicks do at the trade deadline. If Noah shows he can be functional as the backup center do the Knicks look to move both Willy and Kyle? Is Kanter's back an issue that might make trading Kyle a mistake. Do the Knicks look to upgrade the point guard position and make a run at the playoffs? Do they do nothing and embrace roster continuity? Is there a young player that fills a need for the Knicks that could be acquired if they move Willy?

And don't forgot about Luke Kornet too. He's actually looked decent -- he can shoot it from deep, looks to be somewhat of a factor blocking shots and is a real good passer. If we had to dip down and promote this guy, I think he gives us more than Noah.

with a team that will have KP getting between 30-35 minutes a game, how would Kornet give the Knicks more than what a healthy Noah give the team?

Kornet could be back up to KP. He is not a center. good shot blocker but kid is skinny and not going bang down low.

Anger sells, don't buy!
CrushAlot
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12/3/2017  1:05 PM
nyknickzingis wrote:Cant see Kanter pass on free agency this year.
He'll be able to get a 4 year deal with guaranteed money.
He is not a star in the sense that even if he delays a year the money is guaranteed to be there a year later. He is playing fantastic basketball right now. He's seen as a leader. Good teammate. This will all play in. I think he opts out and commands something north of 60 million.
I don't think it is an easy decision. The market is not supposed to be good for players becoming free agents this off season and big men were already not doing well in free agency. If his back issue is chronic it could impact his value this off season as well.
I hope the Knicks keep him. He has been great for the team and KP. I think KP really missed Rolo last year. Playing alongside Kanter has been good for him.
I think we know what we're doing..... Phil Jackson
Knixkik
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12/4/2017  12:14 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:Cant see Kanter pass on free agency this year.
He'll be able to get a 4 year deal with guaranteed money.
He is not a star in the sense that even if he delays a year the money is guaranteed to be there a year later. He is playing fantastic basketball right now. He's seen as a leader. Good teammate. This will all play in. I think he opts out and commands something north of 60 million.
I don't think it is an easy decision. The market is not supposed to be good for players becoming free agents this off season and big men were already not doing well in free agency. If his back issue is chronic it could impact his value this off season as well.
I hope the Knicks keep him. He has been great for the team and KP. I think KP really missed Rolo last year. Playing alongside Kanter has been good for him.

I just don't see him having a huge market this year. A lot of teams will see him as looking this good because he's next to Porzingis, whether right or wrong. Also, the center position is still pretty strong in the league, and if you go through it, there really aren't a ton of teams he would be a clear-cut starter. Add to the fact not many teams will have cap space. I think he is a prime candidate for locking in on a team-friendly long-term contract.
arkrud
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12/4/2017  3:15 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/4/2017  3:16 PM
TripleThreat wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:Cant see Kanter pass on free agency this year.
He'll be able to get a 4 year deal with guaranteed money.
He is not a star in the sense that even if he delays a year the money is guaranteed to be there a year later. He is playing fantastic basketball right now. He's seen as a leader. Good teammate. This will all play in. I think he opts out and commands something north of 60 million.

There have been some decent to pretty good big men who came into the league in the past few drafts. The value of rim protection is important, but not as scarce as it used to be ( And Kanter can't protect the rim) There are also a lot of bad contract big men teams want to dump and who will chew up the 3rd/4th big on the roster positions around the league.

Many teams are cap locked. Many will enter the tax zone. No one is going into the luxury tax for Kanter. No one is going to accelerate their repeater tax for Kanter. He's not going to see his current AAV ever again.

99 percent chance he will opt in, try to keep boosting his value, and then see how the market shakes out the offseason after next.

Most players will opt in if they have a player option and a high AAV. Noel and Caldwell Pope turned down long term money and are in a bit of limbo now. Teams see that. Players see that.

If Kanter was so palatable and useful at his current AAV, the Thunder would have had no problem trading him earlier. And they tried to trade him for a LONG TIME. It means he's overpaid to market. Which means he has every incentive to opt in, take one more big payday for next year and see what happens. He's still "young" enough where waiting one year isn't going to extensively damage his ability to try to get a four year later.

Kanter has close to no trade value. He simply does not. He was available for a reason. Guys here who think he has actual positive trade value are either misreading the market or have, sorry to say, a poor understanding of it in general.

Kanter is likely going to opt in. Could he opt out? Yes, in theory. But it would be a poor market based decision for him. Then again, he was stupid enough to attack the Utah fanbase in public, so anything is possible.

There really isn't that much money out there this coming offseason. He can't defend the rim, he's a net negative on defense, he's a blackhole on offense ( he can score, but he's not efficient) and he can't space the floor. Opting out means he might get a 2 year deal with a much lower AAV.

He's getting burn on the Knicks now because he's essentially the 2nd scoring option getting a lot of touches and using volume to his advantage. Again, he's not an all around efficient player. He does get rebounds. He can work the low post. But both elements are true in part because he doesn't do anything useful on defense. Lots of players could hoover a ton of rebounds if they had no rim protection responsibilities. Rebounding and altering shots in the vein of actual rim protection is valuable. Just raw rebounding as a counting stat at the cost of everything else is not. A pivot who has 8 rebounds and no blocks could have actually had a bigger game impact than a guy with 15 rebounds and 3 blocks.

He's played well so far, in a HANDFUL OF GAMES.

Do you know what "hogging" is all about.

It's about a single dude in a slump for banging chicks. So he gets easy low resistant chicks because he's "thirsty", basically he's banging fat chicks. I.E. "hogging"

A lot of Knicks fans are "thirsty" It's been a long dry spell to see a player who seems to actually give a ****. It's also nice to see some effort, team ball and a few wins after some ugly years. It's nice to see a player show some grit rather than the stupid hat Melo shotjacker routine.

Giving Kanter a huge extension after just a handful of games with effort is basically going "hogging" and then deciding to give the chick an engagement ring. No one else wanted Kanter in a trade for a reason. No one is going out of their way to marry a land whale for a reason.

He's going to likely opt in, let him, then see how it goes. He then has every incentive to keep playing hard. How many guys stop playing hard in the NBA once they get paid?

They like a fat chicks in Africa for a reason... a lot of stuff for hogging...
Otherwise agree with you 100%

He can teach them to meditate... but no one can control even his own mind...
2018 offseason

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