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The value of Courtney Lee
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SupremeCommander
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11/28/2017  9:27 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:Teams that would be interested in Lee will be teams trying to make the playoffs or team looking for an upgrade that can push them to the CF or F.

Teams like
Celtics, Hornets, Cavs, Nuggets, Pistons, Warriors, Rockets, Pacers, Clippers, Lakers, Grizzlies, Heat,
Bucks, Wolves, Pelicans, Thunder, Magic, 76ers, Blazers, Kings, Spurs, Raptors, Jazz, Wizards.

Out of these teams who needs upgrades or depth at SG
Celtics, Pistons, Clippers, Lakers, Pelicans, Spurs, Jazz

Out of these teams who has pieces that make sense for both sides and salaries match.

Next year imo Lee will be easier to trade as he will have 2 yrs left and the Knicks may be willing to take a lesser player who has an expiring while that team may be willing to take on the extra yr for the upgrade. Don't think a team would give up an expiring for 2 more years but would for 1 and probably a 2nd rounder. To much analytical data out there now. The game has changed front offices don't move like they did in the past. If not we may have to look at Lee as a backup SG to Hardaway and we can slide over Dotson to backup SF to get mins.

A move Perry may be able to pull off if he decided to go another direction would be a package of Lee & Kanter to Dallas for Matthews, Mcroberts, Harris and a future pick. If Cuban would rather try for a playoff push over tanking this coming season he may be interested in that deal. Knicks would clean up their cap and add a pick.


Not sure why you want to move Kanter, after he has shown what this squad is like without him. How many quality centers are we going to move? Sounds like Kanter really wants to stay in NY. Would rather see what it would take to keep him in NY before possibly trading him.

Get the feeling there are some backup PGs out there who would be an upgrade from Jack. Lee as part of a deal could get us there. Agree on that.

I doubt the deal actually happens. Only spitting out possible options. I have no problem keeping Kanter.

Got it. Kanter is 25 and playing at a high level, and loves NY. We need a good starting PG like you know what, but I dont want to see a repeat of the Rose trade, robbing Peter to pay Paul. Just surprised some posters (not you) want to break up another great tandem. I would have no problem with Kanter getting Ryan Anderson money. Perry would have to work around it. Been a long time since I thought anyone in the NY front office could.

I agree. We have our SG, PF, and if we don't screw this up we have our C. If Frank develops, we have our PG. If we can draft a good two-way SF we're starting to look pretty good.

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GustavBahler
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11/28/2017  9:35 PM
SupremeCommander wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:Teams that would be interested in Lee will be teams trying to make the playoffs or team looking for an upgrade that can push them to the CF or F.

Teams like
Celtics, Hornets, Cavs, Nuggets, Pistons, Warriors, Rockets, Pacers, Clippers, Lakers, Grizzlies, Heat,
Bucks, Wolves, Pelicans, Thunder, Magic, 76ers, Blazers, Kings, Spurs, Raptors, Jazz, Wizards.

Out of these teams who needs upgrades or depth at SG
Celtics, Pistons, Clippers, Lakers, Pelicans, Spurs, Jazz

Out of these teams who has pieces that make sense for both sides and salaries match.

Next year imo Lee will be easier to trade as he will have 2 yrs left and the Knicks may be willing to take a lesser player who has an expiring while that team may be willing to take on the extra yr for the upgrade. Don't think a team would give up an expiring for 2 more years but would for 1 and probably a 2nd rounder. To much analytical data out there now. The game has changed front offices don't move like they did in the past. If not we may have to look at Lee as a backup SG to Hardaway and we can slide over Dotson to backup SF to get mins.

A move Perry may be able to pull off if he decided to go another direction would be a package of Lee & Kanter to Dallas for Matthews, Mcroberts, Harris and a future pick. If Cuban would rather try for a playoff push over tanking this coming season he may be interested in that deal. Knicks would clean up their cap and add a pick.


Not sure why you want to move Kanter, after he has shown what this squad is like without him. How many quality centers are we going to move? Sounds like Kanter really wants to stay in NY. Would rather see what it would take to keep him in NY before possibly trading him.

Get the feeling there are some backup PGs out there who would be an upgrade from Jack. Lee as part of a deal could get us there. Agree on that.

I doubt the deal actually happens. Only spitting out possible options. I have no problem keeping Kanter.

Got it. Kanter is 25 and playing at a high level, and loves NY. We need a good starting PG like you know what, but I dont want to see a repeat of the Rose trade, robbing Peter to pay Paul. Just surprised some posters (not you) want to break up another great tandem. I would have no problem with Kanter getting Ryan Anderson money. Perry would have to work around it. Been a long time since I thought anyone in the NY front office could.

I agree. We have our SG, PF, and if we don't screw this up we have our C. If Frank develops, we have our PG. If we can draft a good two-way SF we're starting to look pretty good.

Maybe a SF and a PG, depending on who is available. Having another PG to push Frank would be great IMO.

newyorknewyork
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11/28/2017  11:12 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:Teams that would be interested in Lee will be teams trying to make the playoffs or team looking for an upgrade that can push them to the CF or F.

Teams like
Celtics, Hornets, Cavs, Nuggets, Pistons, Warriors, Rockets, Pacers, Clippers, Lakers, Grizzlies, Heat,
Bucks, Wolves, Pelicans, Thunder, Magic, 76ers, Blazers, Kings, Spurs, Raptors, Jazz, Wizards.

Out of these teams who needs upgrades or depth at SG
Celtics, Pistons, Clippers, Lakers, Pelicans, Spurs, Jazz

Out of these teams who has pieces that make sense for both sides and salaries match.

Next year imo Lee will be easier to trade as he will have 2 yrs left and the Knicks may be willing to take a lesser player who has an expiring while that team may be willing to take on the extra yr for the upgrade. Don't think a team would give up an expiring for 2 more years but would for 1 and probably a 2nd rounder. To much analytical data out there now. The game has changed front offices don't move like they did in the past. If not we may have to look at Lee as a backup SG to Hardaway and we can slide over Dotson to backup SF to get mins.

A move Perry may be able to pull off if he decided to go another direction would be a package of Lee & Kanter to Dallas for Matthews, Mcroberts, Harris and a future pick. If Cuban would rather try for a playoff push over tanking this coming season he may be interested in that deal. Knicks would clean up their cap and add a pick.


Not sure why you want to move Kanter, after he has shown what this squad is like without him. How many quality centers are we going to move? Sounds like Kanter really wants to stay in NY. Would rather see what it would take to keep him in NY before possibly trading him.

Get the feeling there are some backup PGs out there who would be an upgrade from Jack. Lee as part of a deal could get us there. Agree on that.

I doubt the deal actually happens. Only spitting out possible options. I have no problem keeping Kanter.

Got it. Kanter is 25 and playing at a high level, and loves NY. We need a good starting PG like you know what, but I dont want to see a repeat of the Rose trade, robbing Peter to pay Paul. Just surprised some posters (not you) want to break up another great tandem. I would have no problem with Kanter getting Ryan Anderson money. Perry would have to work around it. Been a long time since I thought anyone in the NY front office could.

I agree. We have our SG, PF, and if we don't screw this up we have our C. If Frank develops, we have our PG. If we can draft a good two-way SF we're starting to look pretty good.

Maybe a SF and a PG, depending on who is available. Having another PG to push Frank would be great IMO.

Wouldn't bother me if this was the route the Knicks chose to go. Though I would be lying if I didn't say I am very intrigued by the idea of bringing in Favors. I see a lot of potential in a move like that if he were cheaper then Kanter. Kanter has proven chemistry so he has the edge but I think Favors could be a stud 2-way compliment to KP who is in his prime and could be bought low.

But that's just me spitting options again.

Even if we keep Kanter it's still a process and will take time to build this up. Keeping Kanter and Dougie would eliminate cap space option the following yes. So we would have to rely in draft picks to fill in our needs unless a trade comes along. And the picks will take a few seasons to be where we want them. If Dougie is let go and we draft a SF of the future and move Lee to the bench. It still probably won't be for a few seasons until we are a complete team pushing for deep playoff runs.

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GustavBahler
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11/28/2017  11:30 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:Teams that would be interested in Lee will be teams trying to make the playoffs or team looking for an upgrade that can push them to the CF or F.

Teams like
Celtics, Hornets, Cavs, Nuggets, Pistons, Warriors, Rockets, Pacers, Clippers, Lakers, Grizzlies, Heat,
Bucks, Wolves, Pelicans, Thunder, Magic, 76ers, Blazers, Kings, Spurs, Raptors, Jazz, Wizards.

Out of these teams who needs upgrades or depth at SG
Celtics, Pistons, Clippers, Lakers, Pelicans, Spurs, Jazz

Out of these teams who has pieces that make sense for both sides and salaries match.

Next year imo Lee will be easier to trade as he will have 2 yrs left and the Knicks may be willing to take a lesser player who has an expiring while that team may be willing to take on the extra yr for the upgrade. Don't think a team would give up an expiring for 2 more years but would for 1 and probably a 2nd rounder. To much analytical data out there now. The game has changed front offices don't move like they did in the past. If not we may have to look at Lee as a backup SG to Hardaway and we can slide over Dotson to backup SF to get mins.

A move Perry may be able to pull off if he decided to go another direction would be a package of Lee & Kanter to Dallas for Matthews, Mcroberts, Harris and a future pick. If Cuban would rather try for a playoff push over tanking this coming season he may be interested in that deal. Knicks would clean up their cap and add a pick.


Not sure why you want to move Kanter, after he has shown what this squad is like without him. How many quality centers are we going to move? Sounds like Kanter really wants to stay in NY. Would rather see what it would take to keep him in NY before possibly trading him.

Get the feeling there are some backup PGs out there who would be an upgrade from Jack. Lee as part of a deal could get us there. Agree on that.

I doubt the deal actually happens. Only spitting out possible options. I have no problem keeping Kanter.

Got it. Kanter is 25 and playing at a high level, and loves NY. We need a good starting PG like you know what, but I dont want to see a repeat of the Rose trade, robbing Peter to pay Paul. Just surprised some posters (not you) want to break up another great tandem. I would have no problem with Kanter getting Ryan Anderson money. Perry would have to work around it. Been a long time since I thought anyone in the NY front office could.

I agree. We have our SG, PF, and if we don't screw this up we have our C. If Frank develops, we have our PG. If we can draft a good two-way SF we're starting to look pretty good.

Maybe a SF and a PG, depending on who is available. Having another PG to push Frank would be great IMO.

Wouldn't bother me if this was the route the Knicks chose to go. Though I would be lying if I didn't say I am very intrigued by the idea of bringing in Favors. I see a lot of potential in a move like that if he were cheaper then Kanter. Kanter has proven chemistry so he has the edge but I think Favors could be a stud 2-way compliment to KP who is in his prime and could be bought low.

But that's just me spitting options again.

Even if we keep Kanter it's still a process and will take time to build this up. Keeping Kanter and Dougie would eliminate cap space option the following yes. So we would have to rely in draft picks to fill in our needs unless a trade comes along. And the picks will take a few seasons to be where we want them. If Dougie is let go and we draft a SF of the future and move Lee to the bench. It still probably won't be for a few seasons until we are a complete team pushing for deep playoff runs.

Some good ideas there. Believe a good veteran PG can help fill in some gaps, like playing with recent draft picks. Would like to see McD as a starter for a stretch to see how he fits with the starting unit. Has played well enough to earn a shot. Like a tryout for a longer deal. Bring Lee of the bench this season. Especially the way Lee is playing, expending lots of energy. At 33, would rather see his minutes monitored Might help Frank to have Lee as an SG with the second unit.

BRIGGS
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11/30/2017  2:26 PM
This guys value has to be moving up the charts significantly.

I think the team is caught in a conundrum of not to great but not to bad. And certainly you love Lee playing like this. I just hope we dont end up 40-42 and just missing the playoffs.

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Knixkik
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11/30/2017  3:18 PM
BRIGGS wrote:This guys value has to be moving up the charts significantly.

I think the team is caught in a conundrum of not to great but not to bad. And certainly you love Lee playing like this. I just hope we dont end up 40-42 and just missing the playoffs.

Even if we just miss playoffs, so what? That's huge growth for this team. And we will still have the opportunity to draft a good player. Mikal Bridges with the 14th pick? Grab him and hope he becomes Lee's eventual replacement at the 3. There's other guys who will be flying under the radar too. The goal is to find that wing player who can shoot and defend, and provide a similar impact to Lee, or better, long-term.

newyorknewyork
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11/30/2017  3:51 PM
Knixkik wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:This guys value has to be moving up the charts significantly.

I think the team is caught in a conundrum of not to great but not to bad. And certainly you love Lee playing like this. I just hope we dont end up 40-42 and just missing the playoffs.

Even if we just miss playoffs, so what? That's huge growth for this team. And we will still have the opportunity to draft a good player. Mikal Bridges with the 14th pick? Grab him and hope he becomes Lee's eventual replacement at the 3. There's other guys who will be flying under the radar too. The goal is to find that wing player who can shoot and defend, and provide a similar impact to Lee, or better, long-term.

If we're 40-42. Then next yr Frank improves and KP takes another expected step. We are a playoff team. We will continue to improve as Frank does as well.

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Ira
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11/30/2017  3:56 PM
I'd move him for the right return. But until that comes, he's valuable here.
newyorknewyork
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11/30/2017  5:41 PM
An option would be to package Lee with pick/picks depending on the player for a stud at another position while he has a year or 2 left and still looks productive.
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Finestrg
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12/1/2017  10:30 AM    LAST EDITED: 12/1/2017  10:38 AM
Here's why nothing they did adds up to me --

Latest quotes from Courtney Lee regarding the team's style of play compared to last year's:

"I'm going to say it point blank and clear: we're not running the triangle," Lee said, according to Peter Botte of New York Daily News. "We're running a different offense that's more fast-paced and it's more suitable for my style of play." "I didn't say I wasn't a fan of the triangle. The triangle is just - my game suits the triangle also, but you slow it down a little bit," Lee said. "You make passes, you get it to the pinch-post, and then you play off that, but the offense now is to just get up and down. First open look, take it and just try to make the right play."

Takeaways (together with what I already suspected):

- None of the players liked the Triangle last year, not just Rose. Everyone hated it.

- Phil had to go BEFORE the draft. No way around it. SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN ALLOWED to run the last draft for the Knicks. I think that set this organization back some. I bet you if it were up to Jeff running the draft, Dennis Smith Jr./Antonio Blakeney wouldn't been Knicks instead of Frank/Dotson (and I don't hate either player mind you but you got Lee saying right here "point blank" they're playing a faster pace now (a pace Jeff obviously wanted to play all along). A Smith JR/Blakeney combo. would've fit much better with what coach wants to run, esp. Smith. Can't possibly argue it -- it's pure FACT. Two superior players over what we got imo, regardless of what style of play anyone wants to run..

- We definitely **** the bed not taking Dennis Smith Jr. WOW. Can't say it enough. You got Lee saying right here they're playing a faster pace. Why wouldn't we take a faced-paced PG in the draft?? Because you still had Uncle Phil running things and calling the shots, like making a decision to invite DSJ to dinner only, trying to jam fried calamari down his throat and talk ancient Greek philosophy over scheduling a workout with this kid. Say whatever you wanna say about LeBron James but he's 100000% right criticizing Phil about passing on Smith. And I don't put much stock in this 'Smith not releasing his medical records to the Knicks only' rumor at all. I think that's pure BS. No way Smith's agent does that to the Knicks at 8. What if he continued to slide if Cuban didn't take him at 9? No agent's gonna risk costing his client money like that. If anything, medical records weren't given to ALL teams, not just the Knicks. It's pure fantasy -- just the Knicks running damage control floating stuff out there to cover themselves for passing on DSJ and taking the wrong player.

- I still believe deep down, Mills wanted no part of Frank in the draft. Mills is a guy who tried to acquire Darren Collison for the Knicks at one point. DSJ has much more in common with Collison than he does with Frank N. No way Mills wanted Frank. And I don't think Perry would've taken Frank either if he were here -- they're both saying the right things about Frank now to protect the kid. Nothing more.

- We ABSOLUTELY need a faced-paced PG to add to the attack. I don't want to wait until next summer--look to add one right now!!! I've recommended 2 that would cost nothing to add, not a single asset (Cat Barber or Trey Burke) or one guy that's already in the NBA that shouldn't cost too much in terms of assets surrendered (Joe Young).

BigDaddyG
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12/1/2017  11:45 AM
Finestrg wrote:Here's why nothing they did adds up to me --

Latest quotes from Courtney Lee regarding the team's style of play compared to last year's:

"I'm going to say it point blank and clear: we're not running the triangle," Lee said, according to Peter Botte of New York Daily News. "We're running a different offense that's more fast-paced and it's more suitable for my style of play." "I didn't say I wasn't a fan of the triangle. The triangle is just - my game suits the triangle also, but you slow it down a little bit," Lee said. "You make passes, you get it to the pinch-post, and then you play off that, but the offense now is to just get up and down. First open look, take it and just try to make the right play."

Takeaways (together with what I already suspected):

- None of the players liked the Triangle last year, not just Rose. Everyone hated it.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/report-carmelo-anthony-lit-into-kristaps-porzingis-for-praising-the-triangle-offense/

Anthony, who is the only Knick who has been a part of the four straight teams that have missed the playoffs, was considered disruptive in the locker room. On March 1, when the Knicks were last in Orlando finishing out the string against the Magic, Porzingis voiced his support of Jackson's triangle offense.
"We're starting to learn it now the way we should and we should have been playing from the beginning of the season," Porzingis said then. "So we're a little behind. Hopefully, I don't know when, we can start using it properly and making some impact playing it. I like the triangle. My whole first season, we played nothing but the triangle so I know it pretty well.''
According to an NBA source, Anthony was furious to read Porzingis' positive sentiments on an offense he disdains.
"Melo really chewed him out, lit into him,'' the source said.

Finestrg wrote:- Phil had to go BEFORE the draft. No way around it. SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN ALLOWED to run the last draft for the Knicks. I think that set this organization back some. I bet you if it were up to Jeff running the draft, Dennis Smith Jr./Antonio Blakeney wouldn't been Knicks instead of Frank/Dotson (and I don't hate either player mind you but you got Lee saying right here "point blank" they're playing a faster pace now (a pace Jeff obviously wanted to play all along). A Smith JR/Blakeney combo. would've fit much better with what coach wants to run, esp. Smith. Can't possibly argue it -- it's pure FACT. Two superior players over what we got imo, regardless of what style of play anyone wants to run.

Why can't Frank play fast? If anything his ability to create turnovers and pass make him a good fit. What has Blakeney done outside of the G-League? What has DSJ done to show you he's even a PG. He's got a nearly 1 to 1 assist to turnover ratio.
Frank looks like he can run a break to me.

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
Finestrg
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12/1/2017  1:47 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/1/2017  1:53 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
Finestrg wrote:Here's why nothing they did adds up to me --

Latest quotes from Courtney Lee regarding the team's style of play compared to last year's:

"I'm going to say it point blank and clear: we're not running the triangle," Lee said, according to Peter Botte of New York Daily News. "We're running a different offense that's more fast-paced and it's more suitable for my style of play." "I didn't say I wasn't a fan of the triangle. The triangle is just - my game suits the triangle also, but you slow it down a little bit," Lee said. "You make passes, you get it to the pinch-post, and then you play off that, but the offense now is to just get up and down. First open look, take it and just try to make the right play."

Takeaways (together with what I already suspected):

- None of the players liked the Triangle last year, not just Rose. Everyone hated it.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/report-carmelo-anthony-lit-into-kristaps-porzingis-for-praising-the-triangle-offense/

Anthony, who is the only Knick who has been a part of the four straight teams that have missed the playoffs, was considered disruptive in the locker room. On March 1, when the Knicks were last in Orlando finishing out the string against the Magic, Porzingis voiced his support of Jackson's triangle offense.
"We're starting to learn it now the way we should and we should have been playing from the beginning of the season," Porzingis said then. "So we're a little behind. Hopefully, I don't know when, we can start using it properly and making some impact playing it. I like the triangle. My whole first season, we played nothing but the triangle so I know it pretty well.''
According to an NBA source, Anthony was furious to read Porzingis' positive sentiments on an offense he disdains.
"Melo really chewed him out, lit into him,'' the source said.

Finestrg wrote:- Phil had to go BEFORE the draft. No way around it. SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN ALLOWED to run the last draft for the Knicks. I think that set this organization back some. I bet you if it were up to Jeff running the draft, Dennis Smith Jr./Antonio Blakeney wouldn't been Knicks instead of Frank/Dotson (and I don't hate either player mind you but you got Lee saying right here "point blank" they're playing a faster pace now (a pace Jeff obviously wanted to play all along). A Smith JR/Blakeney combo. would've fit much better with what coach wants to run, esp. Smith. Can't possibly argue it -- it's pure FACT. Two superior players over what we got imo, regardless of what style of play anyone wants to run.

Why can't Frank play fast? If anything his ability to create turnovers and pass make him a good fit. What has Blakeney done outside of the G-League? What has DSJ done to show you he's even a PG. He's got a nearly 1 to 1 assist to turnover ratio.
Frank looks like he can run a break to me.

I don't remember that comment from KP but what's he really supposed to say there when asked specifically about the triangle? You think maybe he wasn't telling the full story?? Sounds like a guy at the end of his 2nd season supporting the team president who just drafted him into the NBA. If you recall after the season was over, it looked like he had a different opinion of Phil, though, right? Blowing off his exit interview and such.. Point is no one liked the triangle, from the coach right down to the players. I honestly believe that..

Frank's OK, does some positive things, but he's clearly got A WAYS to go -- and on both sides of the ball too (not like he's some kind of all-league defender right now which a lot of people are making him out to be. I don't see that yet, and his D if far better than his O). I see a guy out there struggling with his handle and he very rarely goes to the basket. True or no?? I'd love a guy that can get out in transition and take it coast to coast, a guy that can break down the defense and get all the way to the goal for either a score or an easy dump off to a big for 2. We don't have that. Not with Jack, not with Frank. Jeff obviously wants to play at a quicker pace but I don't think he has all the ingredients to make that happen yet. Courtney raises a good point -- look at how his game has flourished playing at a faster pace. This is the best Lee's looked as a Knick. A legit uptempo PG would open up so many things for this team, from the other guards to the bigs down low.

Ira
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12/1/2017  3:25 PM
What is there about Dennis Smith that makes people wish we took him. His shooting percentages are all low; as pointed out, his assist/turnover ratio is low; his defense is or really isn't. On top of that he's had significant knee problems in the past.
newyorknewyork
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12/1/2017  3:32 PM
We don't field the same team as last year. Different isn't automatically the cause of success or failure. We didn't have Kanter last year and is making all the difference in the world this yr. What would the team be if we had Kanter last yr or if we didn't have Kanter this yr. And that's just one change that has nothing to do with system.

I don't even know why these things still continue to be brought up at this point. Who cares anymore. What can we do going forward to build a contender.

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TripleThreat
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12/1/2017  7:20 PM
Ira wrote:What is there about Dennis Smith that makes people wish we took him. His shooting percentages are all low; as pointed out, his assist/turnover ratio is low; his defense is or really isn't. On top of that he's had significant knee problems in the past.

He passes the "eye test" for rare athleticism, even for an NBA player. The guy has serious hops and when he slashes, he runs highlight reel plays taking to the cup.

From a raw tool standpoint, if he had

A) Gone to a different school
B) Didn't garner such a reputation for basically being a huge POS
C) Played within the range of actually running the offense instead of trying to be an "Attack Guard" to basically get street cred/shoe deal/rap video, same BS that a lot of these young players do, they'd rather be a celebrity than be an actual elite BB player.

It's hard to estimate the impact of some kid seeing a commercial with Lil'Penny and then realizing a douche like Penny Hardaway was going to the Finals and banging a prime Tyra Banks. Even Larry Johnson got a commercial. As the story goes, Kendall Gill, a pretty decent shooting guard for the Sonics back in the day, went completely berserk when he found out he wasn't going to get the same kind of commercial appeal/marketing/shoe deal like other players. Then he sulked basically the rest of his career. I think it was Mookie Blaylock who was the worst parts of James Harden before there was a James Harden, basically sending every strippers family into wealth single handedly.

You can jump out of a gym, but you can't fix stupid. Dr J used to get cut off from broadcasts at times, because there were times he was just too open about it all, i.e. the league administration, coaches, GMs, scouts, agents, they are all really tired of the horse**** that comes with a bunch of childish greedy players in a "players league" When Jerry Sloan hung it up, that was a tipping point for a lot of people. When LBJ tried to drive out Erik Spolestra, that also made it pretty ugly within the leagues inner circle of owners.

I keep making the comparison of a NBA team and it's players like a "marriage" It's the same one sided financial **** show like a real American marriage. No accountability on one side, just financial destruction and trying to manage a childish "adult" on the other. You know what's the problem with a busted up Tinder thot who sucks a mean c0ck? She's sucking everyone else c0ck too.

This is why teams walked past Smith Jr. You don't ring up a whore. Yeah, he can jump out of a gym. Until he gets caught speeding 180 on a freeway with an Uzi in the front seat and ten kilos of coke in the trunk. DSJr should have been the first overall pick on talent alone. The problem is he's an idiot.

Maybe Dallas got a keeper. Maybe he will change and can change. If he can, good for him. But you don't marry a whore and expect a housewife. That's what drafting DSJr would have been. Maybe down the road, the culture for the Knicks can help fix a guy like DSJr, but definitely not now.

nyknickzingis
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Joined: 12/8/2015
Member: #6207

12/2/2017  7:37 AM    LAST EDITED: 12/2/2017  7:39 AM
Knicks are not playing at a higher pace after Phil Jackson.

Lee saying right here "point blank" they're playing a faster pace now

We are 24/30 (7th worst) in the league in pace.
We are averaging 104.5 points a game, which is 18/30 in the NBA (13th worst).

Last year we were at 104.3 points a game which was 19/30 in the NBA (12th worst).
In PACE last year, we were 17/30 which was much higher than this year.

The biggest difference in this year's team is the ball movement and KP's improvement. This year's team is Melo/Rose/cancer ball free. They move the ball and play the right way. They are the fifth best team in the league in assists, and are a very good ball movement team.

You can't say we play faster because the stats don't prove it all.

Dennis Smith was much more like Rose and Melo, and would have not allowed this to happen. Frank brings a culture to the team that fits what we're trying to be. Hard working on defense. Pass first. Team work. This is what Phil wanted for the team and we're seeing it right now. Knick fans need to thank Phil, he did what we needed at that time a critical part of the rebuilding process.

Ask, who hired Jeff Hornachek? Was not Mills. It was Phil. Who drafted Kristaps? And trust me, when Frank plays well, that is exactly the type of player you want on a team that will play around KP. We saw how poorly DRose blended in with KP. I'm one hundred percent with Phil on that one. Dennis Smith would have been great individually but bad for KP and the Knicks overall team play. Look at the Mavs record. Are you saying we have more talent than them? The Knicks have a core now that plays the right way and can keep getting better together. Credit to Mills for adding THJ to that young group. We're headed in the right direction and have to keep drafting well. I see nothing here to be upset about that we don't have Dennis Smith.

The value of Courtney Lee

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