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They have no idea how to use Kanter properly. And quickly on Frank...
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Bonn1997
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11/14/2017  12:01 PM
Swishfm3 wrote:
martin wrote:
Swishfm3 wrote:
martin wrote:
Swishfm3 wrote:
martin wrote:
Swishfm3 wrote:The biggest advantage the Knicks had tonight was having both KP and Kanter out on the floor together. Cavs have NO center and were getting destroyed by having them both on the floor together. I also questioned why Jack wasn't closing out the game.

It was the 3 point shooting by the Cavs. Jack was on Korver for a bit and left him open too much. And CLE was going with LeBron and either 4 guards or 3 and Frye. Knicks couldn’t keep up. So Jack and Kanter out.

Knicks didn’t run offense and move ball enough.

Yes it was the 3 point shooting that put the Cavs ahead in the 4th but the Cavs were playing small ball in the third qtr as well and the Knicks were having their way with them with Kanter in there.

Ebb and flow of the game though, right? Kanter was on the bench for the whole 2nd quarter, exactly when the Knicks went on their biggest run of the game.

He was also on the bench when the Cavs scored 43 in the 4th.

All I'm saying is that it seemed like the Cavs had trouble covering both KP and Kanter. Cavaliers do not have a true center and I would have liked to have seen Hornacek exploit that some more.

dude? What game were you watching. He played like half of the 4th or more.

This is a good site to see some of those things: http://popcornmachine.net/gf?date=20171113&game=CLENYK

UGH!

ok..got me. I did watch the game..didn't realize he was in for so long. I remember KOQ coming in for him and committing all those fouls.

Now that I've been "owned" twice on this thread, I think its time for me to quietly exit.


popcornmachine.net. I thought that was a joke but that's actually good info.
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Chandler
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11/14/2017  12:10 PM
I would like to think/hope that at some point in the near future we can use someone like Dotson to run after Korver

A lot of his shots were created by Lebron and Wade off of penetration.

the love affair some have with DSJ is shortsighted IMO. Forget who mentioned it first but the comparison with Marbury is apt. Lots of stats, scowls, and losses in his future

And as far as Kanter goes, I think our problem was we stopped moving and started playing more ISO ball. they were collapsing on Kanter and KP as a result and both were fairly ineffective as a result.

We could have used his (or Noah if healthy) rebounding in the fourth. We got torched by second opportunities created form LBJ and Wade grabbing offensive boards -- sort of inexcusable; they were playing small and beating us on the boards

DJMUSIC: Fisher talked a good game in Post game but aside from that Derek Fisher was ALL CHIT CHAT SH_t and produced nothing!
GoNyGoNyGo
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11/14/2017  12:24 PM
NY needed a rebounder in the game and then on the other end, Kanter creates a mismatch inside. He should have been in the game.
Yet another mistake by Dolan. When will it end?
knicks1248
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11/14/2017  12:57 PM
I think this loss fall more on the coaching staff, they fck'd up between the 3rfd and 4th qtr, the cavs had no true pg last night, and no true center, and we took advantage for 3 1/2 qtrs. we push them outside the paint for most of the night, then once they got the penetration going, and the screens, the focusness and energy died after every made 3.

I'm also trying to figure was KP flopping some?

ES
Chandler
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11/14/2017  1:00 PM
knicks1248 wrote:I think this loss fall more on the coaching staff, they fck'd up between the 3rfd and 4th qtr, the cavs had no true pg last night, and no true center, and we took advantage for 3 1/2 qtrs. we push them outside the paint for most of the night, then once they got the penetration going, and the screens, the focusness and energy died after every made 3.

I'm also trying to figure was KP flopping some?

by definition, it's only a flop if the other team does it.

DJMUSIC: Fisher talked a good game in Post game but aside from that Derek Fisher was ALL CHIT CHAT SH_t and produced nothing!
fishmike
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11/14/2017  1:17 PM
Swishfm3 wrote:
martin wrote:
Swishfm3 wrote:
martin wrote:
Swishfm3 wrote:
martin wrote:
Swishfm3 wrote:The biggest advantage the Knicks had tonight was having both KP and Kanter out on the floor together. Cavs have NO center and were getting destroyed by having them both on the floor together. I also questioned why Jack wasn't closing out the game.

It was the 3 point shooting by the Cavs. Jack was on Korver for a bit and left him open too much. And CLE was going with LeBron and either 4 guards or 3 and Frye. Knicks couldn’t keep up. So Jack and Kanter out.

Knicks didn’t run offense and move ball enough.

Yes it was the 3 point shooting that put the Cavs ahead in the 4th but the Cavs were playing small ball in the third qtr as well and the Knicks were having their way with them with Kanter in there.

Ebb and flow of the game though, right? Kanter was on the bench for the whole 2nd quarter, exactly when the Knicks went on their biggest run of the game.

He was also on the bench when the Cavs scored 43 in the 4th.

All I'm saying is that it seemed like the Cavs had trouble covering both KP and Kanter. Cavaliers do not have a true center and I would have liked to have seen Hornacek exploit that some more.

dude? What game were you watching. He played like half of the 4th or more.

This is a good site to see some of those things: http://popcornmachine.net/gf?date=20171113&game=CLENYK

UGH!

ok..got me. I did watch the game..didn't realize he was in for so long. I remember KOQ coming in for him and committing all those fouls.

Now that I've been "owned" twice on this thread, I think its time for me to quietly exit.

dont beat yourself up man... your mom comeback was solid.

I think we got a little used to winning and start to expect it. We are a very very young team. There are going to be setbacks and issues and adjustments. This is going to be a multi year process. We are all just gathering info now, starting with what we got and what works.

fishmike - Making UltimateKnicks great again
Nalod
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11/14/2017  1:24 PM
knicks1248 wrote:I think this loss fall more on the coaching staff, they fck'd up between the 3rfd and 4th qtr, the cavs had no true pg last night, and no true center, and we took advantage for 3 1/2 qtrs. we push them outside the paint for most of the night, then once they got the penetration going, and the screens, the focusness and energy died after every made 3.

I'm also trying to figure was KP flopping some?

Once get the penetration thing going, its hard to stop.
You have to put blame on right? Do you give the lead to the players, but the loss of it on the coaches?
Did you see Jeff and Rambis laughing together at one point??? Yeah, I did too!

Anger sells, don't buy!
knicks1248
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11/14/2017  1:46 PM
Nalod wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:I think this loss fall more on the coaching staff, they fck'd up between the 3rfd and 4th qtr, the cavs had no true pg last night, and no true center, and we took advantage for 3 1/2 qtrs. we push them outside the paint for most of the night, then once they got the penetration going, and the screens, the focusness and energy died after every made 3.

I'm also trying to figure was KP flopping some?

Once get the penetration thing going, its hard to stop.
You have to put blame on right? Do you give the lead to the players, but the loss of it on the coaches?
Did you see Jeff and Rambis laughing together at one point??? Yeah, I did too!

the game plan was great until the cavs made adjustments. I'm sure you watch the breakdown of the 4th qtr collapse and saw Jack, and THJ could not keep up with korver, Lee did a decent job. Its up to the coaching staff to put the right mix on the floor.

We stop scoring and moving the ball, and we made I think one 3 pointer the entire 4th quarter. We had our own korver in Mcdermont, who saw 2 minutes in the forth.

I did see rambis and JH laughing when we were up 17 and the game seem like ours

ES
fishmike
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11/14/2017  3:35 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
Nalod wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:I think this loss fall more on the coaching staff, they fck'd up between the 3rfd and 4th qtr, the cavs had no true pg last night, and no true center, and we took advantage for 3 1/2 qtrs. we push them outside the paint for most of the night, then once they got the penetration going, and the screens, the focusness and energy died after every made 3.

I'm also trying to figure was KP flopping some?

Once get the penetration thing going, its hard to stop.
You have to put blame on right? Do you give the lead to the players, but the loss of it on the coaches?
Did you see Jeff and Rambis laughing together at one point??? Yeah, I did too!

the game plan was great until the cavs made adjustments. I'm sure you watch the breakdown of the 4th qtr collapse and saw Jack, and THJ could not keep up with korver, Lee did a decent job. Its up to the coaching staff to put the right mix on the floor.

We stop scoring and moving the ball, and we made I think one 3 pointer the entire 4th quarter. We had our own korver in Mcdermont, who saw 2 minutes in the forth.

I did see rambis and JH laughing when we were up 17 and the game seem like ours

cant believe coaches would laugh during a game like that. Who do they think they are?
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Gudris
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11/14/2017  3:47 PM
knicks1248 wrote:

I'm also trying to figure was KP flopping some?

Yes he is getting good at this

Nalod
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11/14/2017  5:19 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
Nalod wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:I think this loss fall more on the coaching staff, they fck'd up between the 3rfd and 4th qtr, the cavs had no true pg last night, and no true center, and we took advantage for 3 1/2 qtrs. we push them outside the paint for most of the night, then once they got the penetration going, and the screens, the focusness and energy died after every made 3.

I'm also trying to figure was KP flopping some?

Once get the penetration thing going, its hard to stop.
You have to put blame on right? Do you give the lead to the players, but the loss of it on the coaches?
Did you see Jeff and Rambis laughing together at one point??? Yeah, I did too!

the game plan was great until the cavs made adjustments. I'm sure you watch the breakdown of the 4th qtr collapse and saw Jack, and THJ could not keep up with korver, Lee did a decent job. Its up to the coaching staff to put the right mix on the floor.

We stop scoring and moving the ball, and we made I think one 3 pointer the entire 4th quarter. We had our own korver in Mcdermont, who saw 2 minutes in the forth.

I did see rambis and JH laughing when we were up 17 and the game seem like ours

I saw Korver running around screens. I saw Lebron being a beast. I saw Wade show a flash of what he was.
You look at individuals, I see teams.
I saw knicks with players who are not alpha tested.
You see failed coaching schemes. I saw seasoned vets executing.
You see McDermott as Korver and should be in. I see a potential HOF shooter who is 4th alltime in 3pts made.
You saw failure, I saw a lesson.
very few if any team ever constructed ever came together without a lesson. Heatles first year together melted in the finals. They did not know how to act with a lead.
They learned, then won two. Dallas that year was a seasoned unit. Cav's are not clicking on all cylinders but they have the talent and experience. No way they should lose to the knicks. Lebron put the team on his back, did a great job on KP, and came up big when they needed him. Korver was masterful.

Anger sells, don't buy!
martin
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11/14/2017  5:37 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
Swishfm3 wrote:
martin wrote:
Swishfm3 wrote:
martin wrote:
Swishfm3 wrote:
martin wrote:
Swishfm3 wrote:The biggest advantage the Knicks had tonight was having both KP and Kanter out on the floor together. Cavs have NO center and were getting destroyed by having them both on the floor together. I also questioned why Jack wasn't closing out the game.

It was the 3 point shooting by the Cavs. Jack was on Korver for a bit and left him open too much. And CLE was going with LeBron and either 4 guards or 3 and Frye. Knicks couldn’t keep up. So Jack and Kanter out.

Knicks didn’t run offense and move ball enough.

Yes it was the 3 point shooting that put the Cavs ahead in the 4th but the Cavs were playing small ball in the third qtr as well and the Knicks were having their way with them with Kanter in there.

Ebb and flow of the game though, right? Kanter was on the bench for the whole 2nd quarter, exactly when the Knicks went on their biggest run of the game.

He was also on the bench when the Cavs scored 43 in the 4th.

All I'm saying is that it seemed like the Cavs had trouble covering both KP and Kanter. Cavaliers do not have a true center and I would have liked to have seen Hornacek exploit that some more.

dude? What game were you watching. He played like half of the 4th or more.

This is a good site to see some of those things: http://popcornmachine.net/gf?date=20171113&game=CLENYK

UGH!

ok..got me. I did watch the game..didn't realize he was in for so long. I remember KOQ coming in for him and committing all those fouls.

Now that I've been "owned" twice on this thread, I think its time for me to quietly exit.


popcornmachine.net. I thought that was a joke but that's actually good info.

fantastic site

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meloshouldgo
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11/14/2017  7:37 PM
Knixkik wrote:
martin wrote:
Swishfm3 wrote:The biggest advantage the Knicks had tonight was having both KP and Kanter out on the floor together. Cavs have NO center and were getting destroyed by having them both on the floor together. I also questioned why Jack wasn't closing out the game.

It was the 3 point shooting by the Cavs. Jack was on Korver for a bit and left him open too much. And CLE was going with LeBron and either 4 guards or 3 and Frye. Knicks couldn’t keep up. So Jack and Kanter out.

Knicks didn’t run offense and move ball enough.

I wish we didn't adjust to other teams and forced them to adjust to us. If they go small we should pound it inside and make them pay. Crush them on the boards.

I want to agree but I think the 3-pt shooting made it obvious the two bigs couldn't guard against it. Also KP failed to clean glass on a few sequences allowing second chance points that shouldn't have been there.

The only things that trickle down are wages and horse shit
meloshouldgo
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11/14/2017  7:46 PM
Chandler wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:I think this loss fall more on the coaching staff, they fck'd up between the 3rfd and 4th qtr, the cavs had no true pg last night, and no true center, and we took advantage for 3 1/2 qtrs. we push them outside the paint for most of the night, then once they got the penetration going, and the screens, the focusness and energy died after every made 3.

I'm also trying to figure was KP flopping some?

by definition, it's only a flop if the other team does it.

I am starting to like this guy ^^^

The only things that trickle down are wages and horse shit
Finestrg
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11/14/2017  9:09 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/15/2017  9:51 AM
meloshouldgo wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
martin wrote:
Swishfm3 wrote:The biggest advantage the Knicks had tonight was having both KP and Kanter out on the floor together. Cavs have NO center and were getting destroyed by having them both on the floor together. I also questioned why Jack wasn't closing out the game.

It was the 3 point shooting by the Cavs. Jack was on Korver for a bit and left him open too much. And CLE was going with LeBron and either 4 guards or 3 and Frye. Knicks couldn’t keep up. So Jack and Kanter out.

Knicks didn’t run offense and move ball enough.

I wish we didn't adjust to other teams and forced them to adjust to us. If they go small we should pound it inside and make them pay. Crush them on the boards.

I want to agree but I think the 3-pt shooting made it obvious the two bigs couldn't guard against it. Also KP failed to clean glass on a few sequences allowing second chance points that shouldn't have been there.

Don't agree. Kanter couldn't have guarded Channing Frye?? Of course he could've.. And yeah good point on KP -- as good as he is, and he's been GREAT, KP's a subpar rebounder, plain and simple. Hopefully he gets better here but so far he's shown he's far from a standout rebounder. Another point which firmly supports that Kanter needed to be on the court at the end. The man's an EXCELLENT complement next to KP. He has to be right next to him to close out games from now on. And for God's sake, utilize this man's skills to the fullest!

awe1028
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11/15/2017  3:11 PM
Finestrg, the title of the thread and the original post is spot on: The reason for this loss is Hornacek's decision to bench Kanter during that critical juncture of the game.

The Cavs went to a small ball 3 point shooting lineup to try and cut into the Knicks' lead. Jeff's response was to bench Kanter I can only assume to match the Cavs's small ball lineup.

Instead of changing to match the Cavs what he should have done instead was to continue with the Knicks's strength by keeping Kanter in the game

Kanter was beasting in that game with a "regular big" on him. Imagine what he would have done against that small ball lineup?

This would force the Cavs to adjust to the Knicks instead of the other way around.

If the Cavs continue straight man to man Kanter would have decimated them inside.

If they doubled then somenone would be left open (Clee THJR etc). At the very least they certainly would not have been able to key in on KP with the threat of Kanter on the floor.

So yes Jeff's decision to bench Kanter was what cost us the game.

Nalod
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11/15/2017  4:18 PM
Frye on the parameter takes him away from the rim. How is enes in that situation? was he tired?
How did Chandler do? Lebron defensively went to the 4.
What other matchups were problematic?
Its simple in hindsight to say "Shoulda" but the matchups have their own dynamics. Yes, coaches and players could have done better.
But are we really that talented to consider all the complexities?
Anger sells, don't buy!
Bonn1997
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11/15/2017  4:35 PM
82games updated again. Kanter is now at -12.4 per 48. Lee is not much better.
TripleThreat
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11/15/2017  9:35 PM
Finestrg wrote:Can someone tell me why this guy sat for an eternity down the stretch? Why? WHY????


He has no clue where to be on defense.

More troubling, he seems to not even understand WHY he should be there in the first place.

Some people here are clamoring for Trey Burke to get into the rotation and get minutes. Burke and Kanter have proven how they operate together defensively (it's like watching a horror movie in slow motion)

He's an inefficient, overpaid, low IQ player putting out a ton of energy to try to secure his next long term contract. He's also getting some stats because the roster is actually depleted of actual offensive options.

He's Carl Pavano. On paper, he looks useful. When it doesn't count, he might produce. Might. When it does count, he will fold. He's a long term roster liability.

He's a more established version of where Hernangomez is right now. The thing is Willy still has the potential to develop and get better and is on a bargain contract.

This team keeping Kanter over Hernangomez is like asking a 35 year old guy with his life together to marry the 40 year old single mother with bad credit and three kids, instead of the 25 year old single mother of 1 kid with a lousy job. The 25 year old might have a chance to turn some thing around. The one past their "growth window" is asking to eat a sunk cost when it's really sunk.

Kanter has only played a handful of games guys. Seriously. Some of you dudes want to max him out after a handful of games.

Since you came on this board you have been way off in regards to trade value. - Briggs 7/28/2015
Bonn1997
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11/16/2017  2:07 AM
TripleThreat wrote:
Finestrg wrote:Can someone tell me why this guy sat for an eternity down the stretch? Why? WHY????


He has no clue where to be on defense.

More troubling, he seems to not even understand WHY he should be there in the first place.

Some people here are clamoring for Trey Burke to get into the rotation and get minutes. Burke and Kanter have proven how they operate together defensively (it's like watching a horror movie in slow motion)

He's an inefficient, overpaid, low IQ player putting out a ton of energy to try to secure his next long term contract. He's also getting some stats because the roster is actually depleted of actual offensive options.

He's Carl Pavano. On paper, he looks useful. When it doesn't count, he might produce. Might. When it does count, he will fold. He's a long term roster liability.

He's a more established version of where Hernangomez is right now. The thing is Willy still has the potential to develop and get better and is on a bargain contract.

This team keeping Kanter over Hernangomez is like asking a 35 year old guy with his life together to marry the 40 year old single mother with bad credit and three kids, instead of the 25 year old single mother of 1 kid with a lousy job. The 25 year old might have a chance to turn some thing around. The one past their "growth window" is asking to eat a sunk cost when it's really sunk.

Kanter has only played a handful of games guys. Seriously. Some of you dudes want to max him out after a handful of games.


Exactly. We beat up opponents when KOQ or KP is at center and lose ground with Kanter. We likely lose that game if Kanter plays the 4th quarter.
They have no idea how to use Kanter properly. And quickly on Frank...

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