fishmike wrote:

Finestrg wrote:Can someone tell me why this guy sat for an eternity down the stretch? Why? WHY???? Only had 3 fouls.. Ok, the Cavs went small with no Love--why the F didn't we go BIG? And on D, you mean to tell me Kanter couldn't have checked Frye?? Come on...

Crazy.. Jeff has no idea how to use this guy. He was our best player tonight--20 & 9, dude could've had 35/15 if utilized properly. How in the world do we not establish this guy as a focal point of the offense early and often? At the start, during the middle and at the end--Kanter has to be established. I can't believe Jeff doesn't see it that way. Played very well tonight AND he stuck up for Frank there too -- you mean to tell me that alone didn't earn him mins. down the stretch?? WOW.. I mean, I can't believe what I just saw.

And I hate to say it--Frank played well with the 6 steals or whatever and I loved how he stuck up for himself (WTF LeBron you *******--dude just stood there instead of heading back up court. He's a dick)--but if we had Dennis Smith Jr. tonight down the stretch, we win this game. At one point Frank was wide open for a jumper when KP got knocked to the ground...Remember that play? SHOOT THE BALL MAN!!! Could've had an 'and 1' there maybe. Let it go!!! I feel terrible getting on him, he's trying and has had some nice moments, but this kid's not ready man. Smith Jr's already on the verge of startdom--you can see it. Tell me how I'm wrong comparing the two players side by side based on ability and what they can do on the court.

OK.... your wrong. Frank is behind offensively but light years ahead defensively. Frank impacst the team positively and it shows in the numbers. Frank plays winning ball. DS is a great scorer. Shooting 40% on the worst team in the league. Frank is about not making mistakes and winning. DSjr is about making highlight plays. He's an AAU baby. Compare them all you want. Enjoy.

Do you have an alert on your phone that goes off every time someone on this site critiques or criticizes F. Ntilikina?

Finestrg wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Finestrg wrote:Can someone tell me why this guy sat for an eternity down the stretch? Why? WHY???? Only had 3 fouls.. Ok, the Cavs went small with no Love--why the F didn't we go BIG? And on D, you mean to tell me Kanter couldn't have checked Frye?? Come on...

Crazy.. Jeff has no idea how to use this guy. He was our best player tonight--20 & 9, dude could've had 35/15 if utilized properly. How in the world do we not establish this guy as a focal point of the offense early and often? At the start, during the middle and at the end--Kanter has to be established. I can't believe Jeff doesn't see it that way. Played very well tonight AND he stuck up for Frank there too -- you mean to tell me that alone didn't earn him mins. down the stretch?? WOW.. I mean, I can't believe what I just saw.

And I hate to say it--Frank played well with the 6 steals or whatever and I loved how he stuck up for himself (WTF LeBron you *******--dude just stood there instead of heading back up court. He's a dick)--but if we had Dennis Smith Jr. tonight down the stretch, we win this game. At one point Frank was wide open for a jumper when KP got knocked to the ground...Remember that play? SHOOT THE BALL MAN!!! Could've had an 'and 1' there maybe. Let it go!!! I feel terrible getting on him, he's trying and has had some nice moments, but this kid's not ready man. Smith Jr's already on the verge of startdom--you can see it. Tell me how I'm wrong comparing the two players side by side based on ability and what they can do on the court.

OK.... your wrong. Frank is behind offensively but light years ahead defensively. Frank impacst the team positively and it shows in the numbers. Frank plays winning ball. DS is a great scorer. Shooting 40% on the worst team in the league. Frank is about not making mistakes and winning. DSjr is about making highlight plays. He's an AAU baby. Compare them all you want. Enjoy.

I will continue to compare them, thanks. So will announcers, newspaper writers, various podcasts, LeBron James...We even have a 10-page thread on UK about it. It's worth discussing man. I'm not trying to get on Frank, just trying to be objective about this. To me, there's no comparison at all as far as who the better talent is. On one hand, I see a guy that will hopefully grow and be a very good 2-way role player for us eventually; the other guy's a budding star already, a more athletic Damian Lillard. No comparison at all, sorry.

I would rather see the Knicks develop a star defensive player who makes everyone around him better. DS shows as much Eddie House than Lillard.

How do you evaluate a budding star who is an offensive player shooting 40% on the worst team in the NBA?

Finestrg wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Kanter's scoring and rebounding look great but he has the worst +/- out of any of our regular players (-10.6 per 100 possessions). It is a bit puzzling and hopefully it reverses after more games. But pay close attention to the score when he leaves and comes back in. In these 13 games, it's been about 90% of the time the score gets better when he leaves and worse when he returns.

Coming from you, I trust that that's true. You're a guru with that stuff. I'm really only a basic/primary stats guy when it comes to my two loves, basketball and baseball. The rest is really all feel for me and the feeling I got during the 4th qt. collapse last night: what's missing here? Yeah they were bombing away on us from all angles but the two things that stood out on our end -- we gave those fools way too many 2nd chance opportunities AND we had no sustainable offense down the stretch (along with some shaky play at the point too -- and Frank was better than Jack. I thought Jack was terrible. Right from jump, Shumpert's intense D took him right out of the game). To me, Kanter would've rectified both of those issues. Even with them going small, he could've checked Frye with no problem. Probably would've been a good idea to put more height on Frye trying to cover his 3-ball anyway. Then Enes could've drifted back down to the basket and helped out on the glass. I like Jeff and hate to get on him, think he's done a good job and I'm glad he has autonomy now w/o Phil breathing down his neck, but no Kanter at the end was a complete gaff last night fellas.

martin wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:

martin wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:The biggest advantage the Knicks had tonight was having both KP and Kanter out on the floor together. Cavs have NO center and were getting destroyed by having them both on the floor together. I also questioned why Jack wasn't closing out the game.

It was the 3 point shooting by the Cavs. Jack was on Korver for a bit and left him open too much. And CLE was going with LeBron and either 4 guards or 3 and Frye. Knicks couldn’t keep up. So Jack and Kanter out.

Knicks didn’t run offense and move ball enough.

Yes it was the 3 point shooting that put the Cavs ahead in the 4th but the Cavs were playing small ball in the third qtr as well and the Knicks were having their way with them with Kanter in there.

Ebb and flow of the game though, right? Kanter was on the bench for the whole 2nd quarter, exactly when the Knicks went on their biggest run of the game.

He was also on the bench when the Cavs scored 43 in the 4th.

All I'm saying is that it seemed like the Cavs had trouble covering both KP and Kanter. Cavaliers do not have a true center and I would have liked to have seen Hornacek exploit that some more.

Yesterday on another thread, someone was talking about the rumor (and that's all it really is -- unsubstantiated gossip fragment on some podcast) that DSJ refused to hand over medical records to the Knicks AND work out for them. Interesting. Let's x-ray that for a second:

- Why would he do that? First off, if that's true, it cost him about $1.35m in salary over the next 4 years. Does that make any sense for an NBA rookie? If any of you were his agent, you'd advise your client, a rookie with a prior knee issue, to turn down that amount of money to spite the Knicks only if he somehow managed to slip to 8?? I mean what if Cubes didn't pick him at 9 and he continued to slip? Had the potential to cost him a hell of a lot more than that potentially. Very risky.. Not buying it.

- Following point 1, did he hate NY that badly? NYC? The Mecca? Really?? A team with KP firmly in place (would you rather play with KP on the rise/not even in his prime yet, or Dirk at the end of the line?)??

- There was also an immediate fit here. Like a glove as a matter of fact. He would've been inserted immediately into the starting lineup at PG here from day 1.

- If he didn't want any part of NY, why even have dinner with Phil? Wasn't even like he liked the fried calamari they were serving. If there was a decision to shun the Knicks, he wouldn't have went to the dinner.

What I think happened was this: First off, Phil blew the dinner. I know he did. No question in my mind.. Smith wasn't his type of player anyway, the close-minded fool...If there was a decision to withhold medical history, it was probably done FOR ALL TEAMS asking, not just the Knicks. Why would it be JUST THE KNICKS?? Makes no sense...I honestly think Phil completely turned the kid off at the dinner, probably getting all Zen, talking philosophy, Aristotle, mysticism, triangles, lord only knows whatever else ...I'm sure the kid came away saying **** this...Again, if you're the Knicks and you already knew Phil wasn't going to be retained, why on Earth let him run the draft? Makes no sense. And again on Mills--Mills wanted Darren Collison at one point. We know this. You think he thumbed his nose up at DSJ??

Swishfm3 wrote:

martin wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:

martin wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:The biggest advantage the Knicks had tonight was having both KP and Kanter out on the floor together. Cavs have NO center and were getting destroyed by having them both on the floor together. I also questioned why Jack wasn't closing out the game.

It was the 3 point shooting by the Cavs. Jack was on Korver for a bit and left him open too much. And CLE was going with LeBron and either 4 guards or 3 and Frye. Knicks couldn’t keep up. So Jack and Kanter out.

Knicks didn’t run offense and move ball enough.

Yes it was the 3 point shooting that put the Cavs ahead in the 4th but the Cavs were playing small ball in the third qtr as well and the Knicks were having their way with them with Kanter in there.

Ebb and flow of the game though, right? Kanter was on the bench for the whole 2nd quarter, exactly when the Knicks went on their biggest run of the game.

He was also on the bench when the Cavs scored 43 in the 4th.

All I'm saying is that it seemed like the Cavs had trouble covering both KP and Kanter. Cavaliers do not have a true center and I would have liked to have seen Hornacek exploit that some more.

dude? What game were you watching. He played like half of the 4th or more.

This is a good site to see some of those things: http://popcornmachine.net/gf?date=20171113&game=CLENYK

Swishfm3 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Finestrg wrote:Can someone tell me why this guy sat for an eternity down the stretch? Why? WHY???? Only had 3 fouls.. Ok, the Cavs went small with no Love--why the F didn't we go BIG? And on D, you mean to tell me Kanter couldn't have checked Frye?? Come on...

Crazy.. Jeff has no idea how to use this guy. He was our best player tonight--20 & 9, dude could've had 35/15 if utilized properly. How in the world do we not establish this guy as a focal point of the offense early and often? At the start, during the middle and at the end--Kanter has to be established. I can't believe Jeff doesn't see it that way. Played very well tonight AND he stuck up for Frank there too -- you mean to tell me that alone didn't earn him mins. down the stretch?? WOW.. I mean, I can't believe what I just saw.

And I hate to say it--Frank played well with the 6 steals or whatever and I loved how he stuck up for himself (WTF LeBron you *******--dude just stood there instead of heading back up court. He's a dick)--but if we had Dennis Smith Jr. tonight down the stretch, we win this game. At one point Frank was wide open for a jumper when KP got knocked to the ground...Remember that play? SHOOT THE BALL MAN!!! Could've had an 'and 1' there maybe. Let it go!!! I feel terrible getting on him, he's trying and has had some nice moments, but this kid's not ready man. Smith Jr's already on the verge of startdom--you can see it. Tell me how I'm wrong comparing the two players side by side based on ability and what they can do on the court.

OK.... your wrong. Frank is behind offensively but light years ahead defensively. Frank impacst the team positively and it shows in the numbers. Frank plays winning ball. DS is a great scorer. Shooting 40% on the worst team in the league. Frank is about not making mistakes and winning. DSjr is about making highlight plays. He's an AAU baby. Compare them all you want. Enjoy.

Do you have an alert on your phone that goes off every time someone on this site critiques or criticizes F. Ntilikina?

Yes. Sometimes I confuse the alerts with when your mom calls. BTW she said defensive guards are really important.

Is she also calling you to let you know that you act like 11y/o groupie chick when it comes to Frank and KP? I believe she would. She is also a Knick fan......and hates grown men that whine (assuming that you are a man..if not, carry on with your whining)

BTW..YOUR mom says she likes guards that can take it to the hole.

Nalod wrote:A big lead is not a won game!
Korver might have some HOF cred with his sniper stats, Wade is still dangerous and Lebron is on Mount Rushmore!
Lebron on KP defense was impressive.
Developing yoot means you not have to learn to get a lead, and they freakin were awesome, but how to keep it.
Frank was given looks and he will learn to accept it and push thru. When so, it opens opportunities.
The kid on defense was awesome!!! KP is being tested now. I thought he handled some things well, and some not.
Missed free throws, not so.

I’m amazed at times that we can think subbing out a player who is tired would continue to do well.

I think LeDouche is the only one that can check KP. He can mug him and get away with it due to his NBA standing. Horny need to figure out how to get him open. I think some pin down screen involving Kanter would do the trick.

Finestrg wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Finestrg wrote:Can someone tell me why this guy sat for an eternity down the stretch? Why? WHY???? Only had 3 fouls.. Ok, the Cavs went small with no Love--why the F didn't we go BIG? And on D, you mean to tell me Kanter couldn't have checked Frye?? Come on...

Crazy.. Jeff has no idea how to use this guy. He was our best player tonight--20 & 9, dude could've had 35/15 if utilized properly. How in the world do we not establish this guy as a focal point of the offense early and often? At the start, during the middle and at the end--Kanter has to be established. I can't believe Jeff doesn't see it that way. Played very well tonight AND he stuck up for Frank there too -- you mean to tell me that alone didn't earn him mins. down the stretch?? WOW.. I mean, I can't believe what I just saw.

And I hate to say it--Frank played well with the 6 steals or whatever and I loved how he stuck up for himself (WTF LeBron you *******--dude just stood there instead of heading back up court. He's a dick)--but if we had Dennis Smith Jr. tonight down the stretch, we win this game. At one point Frank was wide open for a jumper when KP got knocked to the ground...Remember that play? SHOOT THE BALL MAN!!! Could've had an 'and 1' there maybe. Let it go!!! I feel terrible getting on him, he's trying and has had some nice moments, but this kid's not ready man. Smith Jr's already on the verge of startdom--you can see it. Tell me how I'm wrong comparing the two players side by side based on ability and what they can do on the court.

OK.... your wrong. Frank is behind offensively but light years ahead defensively. Frank impacst the team positively and it shows in the numbers. Frank plays winning ball. DS is a great scorer. Shooting 40% on the worst team in the league. Frank is about not making mistakes and winning. DSjr is about making highlight plays. He's an AAU baby. Compare them all you want. Enjoy.

I will continue to compare them, thanks. So will announcers, newspaper writers, various podcasts, LeBron James...We even have a 10-page thread on UK about it. It's worth discussing man. I'm not trying to get on Frank, just trying to be objective about this. To me, there's no comparison at all as far as who the better talent is. On one hand, I see a guy that will hopefully grow and be a very good 2-way role player for us eventually; the other guy's a budding star already, a more athletic Damian Lillard. No comparison at all, sorry.

Go at at. Your welcome. And still wrong. Lillard? You sure DS is not the next Westbrook? DS is a turnstile. Defense is important.

I would rather see the Knicks develop a star defensive player who makes everyone around him better. DS shows as much Eddie House than Lillard.

How do you evaluate a budding star who is an offensive player shooting 40% on the worst team in the NBA?

How do YOU evaluate Frank as a star???? Really? Frank? A star? And did you really just put DSJ and Eddie House in the same sentence? Did I just read that right?? Holy **** dude...LMAO!!

And lay off the mothers too, pal. Hard to take you serious when you start talking like that.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/espnstatsinfo/status/930222499509411840

Seriously what is the job of a PG? You can talk positionless basketball all day. Sorry but the #s show that Frank Ntilikina is a much better basketball player than Dennis Smith JR.

Unless your playing fantasy. Then Frank is terrible. Need to win some games? Need to make your other scorers better? Need to keep opposing guards out of the paint? Not turn the ball over trying to create your own shot? If you value those things than Frank Ntilikina may just be the PG choice for you!

I have had enough of the AAU me first baby basketball. Frank is a breath of fresh air.

martin wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:

martin wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:

martin wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:The biggest advantage the Knicks had tonight was having both KP and Kanter out on the floor together. Cavs have NO center and were getting destroyed by having them both on the floor together. I also questioned why Jack wasn't closing out the game.

It was the 3 point shooting by the Cavs. Jack was on Korver for a bit and left him open too much. And CLE was going with LeBron and either 4 guards or 3 and Frye. Knicks couldn’t keep up. So Jack and Kanter out.

Knicks didn’t run offense and move ball enough.

Yes it was the 3 point shooting that put the Cavs ahead in the 4th but the Cavs were playing small ball in the third qtr as well and the Knicks were having their way with them with Kanter in there.

Ebb and flow of the game though, right? Kanter was on the bench for the whole 2nd quarter, exactly when the Knicks went on their biggest run of the game.

He was also on the bench when the Cavs scored 43 in the 4th.

All I'm saying is that it seemed like the Cavs had trouble covering both KP and Kanter. Cavaliers do not have a true center and I would have liked to have seen Hornacek exploit that some more.

dude? What game were you watching. He played like half of the 4th or more.

This is a good site to see some of those things: http://popcornmachine.net/gf?date=20171113&game=CLENYK

UGH!

ok..got me. I did watch the game..didn't realize he was in for so long. I remember KOQ coming in for him and committing all those fouls.

Now that I've been "owned" twice on this thread, I think its time for me to quietly exit.