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Are we re-establishing ourselves as an attractive destination for the top FAs?
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martin
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11/13/2017  3:12 PM
KnixinSix wrote:Let's say this start is for real and KP proves himself to be a top 5 player in the NBA, Hornacek proves to be a legit coach with a good ball movement system,the Front office is harmonious (shares a unified vision), and subsequently The Mecca again is an attractive destination for a top FA.

Would this general team let's say (minus Kanter ,keeping OQuinn,waive/stretching Noah's contract) and adding LeBron legitimately vie for a championship?

Roughly speaking:

Oquinn/Henrnangomez
KP
Lebron/Hardaway
Lee/Hardaway/Dotson
Frank/Jack or FA

And a decent to deep bench?

With KP and LeBron both being two way top 5 players in the NBA and good role players around them+ a second year Frank running the point, I say yes.

-OR- let's say (minus Kanter ,keeping OQuinn,waive/stretching Noah's contract,trading or stretching Lee) and adding Cousins and George?

Roughly speaking:

Cousins/Oquinn/Henrnangomez
K.P.
Paul George/Hardaway
Hardaway/Dotson
Frank/Jack or FA

And a decent to deep bench?

Plug in some real salaries. Start here:


Player age 2017-18 2018-19
Enes Kanter 25 17,884,176 18,622,514
Joakim Noah 32 17,765,000 18,530,000
Tim Hardaway 25 16,500,000 17,325,000
Courtney Lee 31 11,747,890 12,253,780
Lance Thomas 28 6,655,325 7,119,650
KP 21 4,503,600 5,697,054
Kyle O'Quinn 26 4,100,000 4,250,000
Kuzminskas 27 3,028,410
Ron Baker 24 4,328,000 4,544,400
Frank Ntilikina 19 3,501,120 4,155,720
Doug McDermott 25 3,294,994
Jarrett Jack 33 2,328,652
Ramon Sessions 31 2,328,652
Michael Beasley 28 2,116,955
Willy 23 1,435,750 1,544,951
Damyean Dotson 23 1,100,000 1,378,242
~$102M ~$95M

Green is player option. McDermott with have like a $10M cap hold. 1st round pick will be about $3M salary, second rounder will be about $1M.

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fishmike
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11/13/2017  3:42 PM
martin wrote:
KnixinSix wrote:Let's say this start is for real and KP proves himself to be a top 5 player in the NBA, Hornacek proves to be a legit coach with a good ball movement system,the Front office is harmonious (shares a unified vision), and subsequently The Mecca again is an attractive destination for a top FA.

Would this general team let's say (minus Kanter ,keeping OQuinn,waive/stretching Noah's contract) and adding LeBron legitimately vie for a championship?

Roughly speaking:

Oquinn/Henrnangomez
KP
Lebron/Hardaway
Lee/Hardaway/Dotson
Frank/Jack or FA

And a decent to deep bench?

With KP and LeBron both being two way top 5 players in the NBA and good role players around them+ a second year Frank running the point, I say yes.

-OR- let's say (minus Kanter ,keeping OQuinn,waive/stretching Noah's contract,trading or stretching Lee) and adding Cousins and George?

Roughly speaking:

Cousins/Oquinn/Henrnangomez
K.P.
Paul George/Hardaway
Hardaway/Dotson
Frank/Jack or FA

And a decent to deep bench?

Plug in some real salaries. Start here:


Player age 2017-18 2018-19
Enes Kanter 25 17,884,176 18,622,514
Joakim Noah 32 17,765,000 18,530,000
Tim Hardaway 25 16,500,000 17,325,000
Courtney Lee 31 11,747,890 12,253,780
Lance Thomas 28 6,655,325 7,119,650
KP 21 4,503,600 5,697,054
Kyle O'Quinn 26 4,100,000 4,250,000
Kuzminskas 27 3,028,410
Ron Baker 24 4,328,000 4,544,400
Frank Ntilikina 19 3,501,120 4,155,720
Doug McDermott 25 3,294,994
Jarrett Jack 33 2,328,652
Ramon Sessions 31 2,328,652
Michael Beasley 28 2,116,955
Willy 23 1,435,750 1,544,951
Damyean Dotson 23 1,100,000 1,378,242
~$102M ~$95M

Green is player option. McDermott with have like a $10M cap hold. 1st round pick will be about $3M salary, second rounder will be about $1M.

screw Lebron. Knicks have all their picks and should be focused on drafting the next Kawhi Lenard. Thats the dream. Give me a long defensive beast at the 3. Even a young version of Ariza or Tayshaun Prince.
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Knixkik
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11/13/2017  3:59 PM
fishmike wrote:
martin wrote:
KnixinSix wrote:Let's say this start is for real and KP proves himself to be a top 5 player in the NBA, Hornacek proves to be a legit coach with a good ball movement system,the Front office is harmonious (shares a unified vision), and subsequently The Mecca again is an attractive destination for a top FA.

Would this general team let's say (minus Kanter ,keeping OQuinn,waive/stretching Noah's contract) and adding LeBron legitimately vie for a championship?

Roughly speaking:

Oquinn/Henrnangomez
KP
Lebron/Hardaway
Lee/Hardaway/Dotson
Frank/Jack or FA

And a decent to deep bench?

With KP and LeBron both being two way top 5 players in the NBA and good role players around them+ a second year Frank running the point, I say yes.

-OR- let's say (minus Kanter ,keeping OQuinn,waive/stretching Noah's contract,trading or stretching Lee) and adding Cousins and George?

Roughly speaking:

Cousins/Oquinn/Henrnangomez
K.P.
Paul George/Hardaway
Hardaway/Dotson
Frank/Jack or FA

And a decent to deep bench?

Plug in some real salaries. Start here:


Player age 2017-18 2018-19
Enes Kanter 25 17,884,176 18,622,514
Joakim Noah 32 17,765,000 18,530,000
Tim Hardaway 25 16,500,000 17,325,000
Courtney Lee 31 11,747,890 12,253,780
Lance Thomas 28 6,655,325 7,119,650
KP 21 4,503,600 5,697,054
Kyle O'Quinn 26 4,100,000 4,250,000
Kuzminskas 27 3,028,410
Ron Baker 24 4,328,000 4,544,400
Frank Ntilikina 19 3,501,120 4,155,720
Doug McDermott 25 3,294,994
Jarrett Jack 33 2,328,652
Ramon Sessions 31 2,328,652
Michael Beasley 28 2,116,955
Willy 23 1,435,750 1,544,951
Damyean Dotson 23 1,100,000 1,378,242
~$102M ~$95M

Green is player option. McDermott with have like a $10M cap hold. 1st round pick will be about $3M salary, second rounder will be about $1M.

screw Lebron. Knicks have all their picks and should be focused on drafting the next Kawhi Lenard. Thats the dream. Give me a long defensive beast at the 3. Even a young version of Ariza or Tayshaun Prince.

Robert Covington sort of meets your requirements.

KnixinSix
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11/13/2017  4:02 PM
fishmike wrote:
martin wrote:
KnixinSix wrote:Let's say this start is for real and KP proves himself to be a top 5 player in the NBA, Hornacek proves to be a legit coach with a good ball movement system,the Front office is harmonious (shares a unified vision), and subsequently The Mecca again is an attractive destination for a top FA.

Would this general team let's say (minus Kanter ,keeping OQuinn,waive/stretching Noah's contract) and adding LeBron legitimately vie for a championship?

Roughly speaking:

Oquinn/Henrnangomez
KP
Lebron/Hardaway
Lee/Hardaway/Dotson
Frank/Jack or FA

And a decent to deep bench?

With KP and LeBron both being two way top 5 players in the NBA and good role players around them+ a second year Frank running the point, I say yes.

-OR- let's say (minus Kanter ,keeping OQuinn,waive/stretching Noah's contract,trading or stretching Lee) and adding Cousins and George?

Roughly speaking:

Cousins/Oquinn/Henrnangomez
K.P.
Paul George/Hardaway
Hardaway/Dotson
Frank/Jack or FA

And a decent to deep bench?

Plug in some real salaries. Start here:


Player age 2017-18 2018-19
Enes Kanter 25 17,884,176 18,622,514
Joakim Noah 32 17,765,000 18,530,000
Tim Hardaway 25 16,500,000 17,325,000
Courtney Lee 31 11,747,890 12,253,780
Lance Thomas 28 6,655,325 7,119,650
KP 21 4,503,600 5,697,054
Kyle O'Quinn 26 4,100,000 4,250,000
Kuzminskas 27 3,028,410
Ron Baker 24 4,328,000 4,544,400
Frank Ntilikina 19 3,501,120 4,155,720
Doug McDermott 25 3,294,994
Jarrett Jack 33 2,328,652
Ramon Sessions 31 2,328,652
Michael Beasley 28 2,116,955
Willy 23 1,435,750 1,544,951
Damyean Dotson 23 1,100,000 1,378,242
~$102M ~$95M

Green is player option. McDermott with have like a $10M cap hold. 1st round pick will be about $3M salary, second rounder will be about $1M.

screw Lebron. Knicks have all their picks and should be focused on drafting the next Kawhi Lenard. Thats the dream. Give me a long defensive beast at the 3. Even a young version of Ariza or Tayshaun Prince.

If we can sign one of the top 2 way (offensively and defensively elite) NBA FAs you do it. This isn't like giving a max to Snare Stoutemire or Carmelo. We are taking guys that bring both O and D.

Do you think the front office would forego signing a Superstar if they could to build organically over the next 3-4 years and hope you fall into a star in the draft when you could be picking outside the top 10? MSG is a money making business venture in the biggest city in the world. If we can get a star to pair with KP and create a frenzy for this team it will happen.

martin
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11/13/2017  4:03 PM
Knixkik wrote:
fishmike wrote:
martin wrote:
KnixinSix wrote:Let's say this start is for real and KP proves himself to be a top 5 player in the NBA, Hornacek proves to be a legit coach with a good ball movement system,the Front office is harmonious (shares a unified vision), and subsequently The Mecca again is an attractive destination for a top FA.

Would this general team let's say (minus Kanter ,keeping OQuinn,waive/stretching Noah's contract) and adding LeBron legitimately vie for a championship?

Roughly speaking:

Oquinn/Henrnangomez
KP
Lebron/Hardaway
Lee/Hardaway/Dotson
Frank/Jack or FA

And a decent to deep bench?

With KP and LeBron both being two way top 5 players in the NBA and good role players around them+ a second year Frank running the point, I say yes.

-OR- let's say (minus Kanter ,keeping OQuinn,waive/stretching Noah's contract,trading or stretching Lee) and adding Cousins and George?

Roughly speaking:

Cousins/Oquinn/Henrnangomez
K.P.
Paul George/Hardaway
Hardaway/Dotson
Frank/Jack or FA

And a decent to deep bench?

Plug in some real salaries. Start here:


Player age 2017-18 2018-19
Enes Kanter 25 17,884,176 18,622,514
Joakim Noah 32 17,765,000 18,530,000
Tim Hardaway 25 16,500,000 17,325,000
Courtney Lee 31 11,747,890 12,253,780
Lance Thomas 28 6,655,325 7,119,650
KP 21 4,503,600 5,697,054
Kyle O'Quinn 26 4,100,000 4,250,000
Kuzminskas 27 3,028,410
Ron Baker 24 4,328,000 4,544,400
Frank Ntilikina 19 3,501,120 4,155,720
Doug McDermott 25 3,294,994
Jarrett Jack 33 2,328,652
Ramon Sessions 31 2,328,652
Michael Beasley 28 2,116,955
Willy 23 1,435,750 1,544,951
Damyean Dotson 23 1,100,000 1,378,242
~$102M ~$95M

Green is player option. McDermott with have like a $10M cap hold. 1st round pick will be about $3M salary, second rounder will be about $1M.

screw Lebron. Knicks have all their picks and should be focused on drafting the next Kawhi Lenard. Thats the dream. Give me a long defensive beast at the 3. Even a young version of Ariza or Tayshaun Prince.

Robert Covington sort of meets your requirements.

Philly may be extending him right now, so he'll be off market next summer.

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Olbrannon
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11/14/2017  6:45 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/14/2017  6:46 AM
KnixinSix wrote:Let's say this start is for real and KP proves himself to be a top 5 player in the NBA, Hornacek proves to be a legit coach with a good ball movement system,the Front office is harmonious (shares a unified vision), and subsequently The Mecca again is an attractive destination for a top FA.

Wow that's a big jump. I mean ...Bron, Curry, Harden, Giannis, KD. KP is gonna be top 5 when? Front office? You do realize who this team is?

Would this general team let's say (minus Kanter ,keeping OQuinn,waive/stretching Noah's contract) and adding LeBron legitimately vie for a championship?

Theoretically possible. All I can say is I thought I was a dreamer, lotta cards gotta fall nice. Probability less than 10% I'd say that Knicks land LeBrawn and vie for playoffs next year..
Bill Simmons on Tyreke Evans "The prototypical 0-guard: Someone who handles the ball all the time, looks for his own shot, gets to the rim at will and operates best if his teammates spread the floor to watch him."
Nalod
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11/14/2017  8:25 AM
After living in Salt Lake and OKC, Kanter might relish the opportunity to stay in one place and one that has an international community.
Guys like Giannis and Westbrook are the face of the franchise and get super max money and “their own team”. It’s a good gig. PG13 had that but once Uber wealthy life sometimes has other goals. Winning in OKC or bold to were he wants to go. PUsh comes to shove OKC takes THjr and a pick for PG13 which is better than nothing if he walks. I’m not saying that deal exactly but you get the drift. Clippers made a bad deal but got some value when Paul wanted to leave.
The big prerequisite is PG13 or others WANT to be here. If so, having some decent marketable players is good. The cupboard is not empty as it has been in the past.
Anger sells, don't buy!
KnixinSix
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11/14/2017  12:32 PM
Nalod wrote:After living in Salt Lake and OKC, Kanter might relish the opportunity to stay in one place and one that has an international community.
Guys like Giannis and Westbrook are the face of the franchise and get super max money and “their own team”. It’s a good gig. PG13 had that but once Uber wealthy life sometimes has other goals. Winning in OKC or bold to were he wants to go. PUsh comes to shove OKC takes THjr and a pick for PG13 which is better than nothing if he walks. I’m not saying that deal exactly but you get the drift. Clippers made a bad deal but got some value when Paul wanted to leave.
The big prerequisite is PG13 or others WANT to be here. If so, having some decent marketable players is good. The cupboard is not empty as it has been in the past.

Good points. If they keep this up (last nights meltdown not withstanding) this team is going to be fun to watch and open the eyes of the guys who can come free this summer.

KnixinSix
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11/14/2017  12:33 PM
For those that do not want Lebron. Imagine Paul George and Cousins.

Some maneuvering to clear the space but I think it's doable.

Cousins/Hernangomez/O'Quinn
KP/O'Quinn/Cousins
George/Hardaway
Hardaway/Dotson
Nkitilina/?

*Kanter,Noah,Lee,McDermott,Thomas,Baker- traded or waived/stretched.

martin
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11/14/2017  5:35 PM
KnixinSix wrote:For those that do not want Lebron. Imagine Paul George and Cousins.

Some maneuvering to clear the space but I think it's doable.

Cousins/Hernangomez/O'Quinn
KP/O'Quinn/Cousins
George/Hardaway
Hardaway/Dotson
Nkitilina/?

*Kanter,Noah,Lee,McDermott,Thomas,Baker- traded or waived/stretched.

Not really possible. Or realistic.

Dude, the numbers are above, I gave them to you. Figure out a realistic possibility.

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MS
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11/14/2017  5:50 PM
Just embarrassing management gave Baker $4.2MM next year with how valuable cap space is.
VCoug
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11/14/2017  6:43 PM
MS wrote:Just embarrassing management gave Baker $4.2MM next year with how valuable cap space is.

Not as embarrassing as giving THJr and Noah $18M/year.

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VCoug
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11/14/2017  6:49 PM
martin wrote:
KnixinSix wrote:For those that do not want Lebron. Imagine Paul George and Cousins.

Some maneuvering to clear the space but I think it's doable.

Cousins/Hernangomez/O'Quinn
KP/O'Quinn/Cousins
George/Hardaway
Hardaway/Dotson
Nkitilina/?

*Kanter,Noah,Lee,McDermott,Thomas,Baker- traded or waived/stretched.

Not really possible. Or realistic.

Dude, the numbers are above, I gave them to you. Figure out a realistic possibility.

Yeah, not seeing it. Kanter would have to opt out and then we'd need to dump some combination of Noah/THJr/Courtney Lee/Lance Thomas without taking salary back. And even then, I don't know who's running the offense in this scenario. I like what I've seen from Ntilikina but the kid's got no handle.

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TripleThreat
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11/14/2017  7:06 PM
KnixinSix wrote:If this team keeps this up, we suddenly will be a very attractive option for some of the top FAs this offseason.


- Opportunity to contend/win a ring
- Get starter minutes compared to previous situation
- Stay in the NBA period
- Highest AAV/Length of contract
- Proximity/keeping wife/GF/mother happy/not wanting to uproot children ( this is the functional version of staying close to home or being in your 'hometown')

This is pretty much it.

Players with the most choices will pick contention/top money.

Players with some choices usually pick most money/most years

Players with limited choices are just looking to stay in the league, reach their pension benchmarks for tenure/service time and/or get the most playing time possible before the end.

Younger players will be more in line with keeping their wives/kids/mothers happy. ( Frame hack to this, point to note, women are incapable of ever being truly happy, so mothers and wives and if the kids are daughters, will perpetually be pissed at you no matter what you do )

No player with real options is going to likely pick the Knicks first. Players with some options will pick the Knicks in an overpay for years and AAV. A few guys, like Beasley,Sessions and Jack, will just be happy to stay in the league and get minutes.

This entire "legacy in NY thing" I have no ideas what the hell some guys here are talking about.

Money over everything.

Money Over Everything.

MONEY OVER EVERYTHING.

I'm pretty sure I just quoted some mindless rap song lyrics. Time to get back to reality guys. Except in some very specific circumstance ( someone like David West), it's going to usually be Money Over Everything.

Since you came on this board you have been way off in regards to trade value. - Briggs 7/28/2015
Nalod
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11/15/2017  11:32 AM
Boogie a Knick? Not what we need.
PG13? yeah.
Anger sells, don't buy!
Swishfm3
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11/15/2017  11:53 AM
Has NY EVER been an attractive destination for free agents? I don't think so.

It helps that Phil Jackson is gone but I always though the biggest deterrent has always been the NY Sports Media.

Nalod
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11/15/2017  12:21 PM
fishmike wrote:
martin wrote:
KnixinSix wrote:Let's say this start is for real and KP proves himself to be a top 5 player in the NBA, Hornacek proves to be a legit coach with a good ball movement system,the Front office is harmonious (shares a unified vision), and subsequently The Mecca again is an attractive destination for a top FA.

Would this general team let's say (minus Kanter ,keeping OQuinn,waive/stretching Noah's contract) and adding LeBron legitimately vie for a championship?

Roughly speaking:

Oquinn/Henrnangomez
KP
Lebron/Hardaway
Lee/Hardaway/Dotson
Frank/Jack or FA

And a decent to deep bench?

With KP and LeBron both being two way top 5 players in the NBA and good role players around them+ a second year Frank running the point, I say yes.

-OR- let's say (minus Kanter ,keeping OQuinn,waive/stretching Noah's contract,trading or stretching Lee) and adding Cousins and George?

Roughly speaking:

Cousins/Oquinn/Henrnangomez
K.P.
Paul George/Hardaway
Hardaway/Dotson
Frank/Jack or FA

And a decent to deep bench?

Plug in some real salaries. Start here:


Player age 2017-18 2018-19
Enes Kanter 25 17,884,176 18,622,514
Joakim Noah 32 17,765,000 18,530,000
Tim Hardaway 25 16,500,000 17,325,000
Courtney Lee 31 11,747,890 12,253,780
Lance Thomas 28 6,655,325 7,119,650
KP 21 4,503,600 5,697,054
Kyle O'Quinn 26 4,100,000 4,250,000
Kuzminskas 27 3,028,410
Ron Baker 24 4,328,000 4,544,400
Frank Ntilikina 19 3,501,120 4,155,720
Doug McDermott 25 3,294,994
Jarrett Jack 33 2,328,652
Ramon Sessions 31 2,328,652
Michael Beasley 28 2,116,955
Willy 23 1,435,750 1,544,951
Damyean Dotson 23 1,100,000 1,378,242
~$102M ~$95M

Green is player option. McDermott with have like a $10M cap hold. 1st round pick will be about $3M salary, second rounder will be about $1M.

screw Lebron. Knicks have all their picks and should be focused on drafting the next Kawhi Lenard. Thats the dream. Give me a long defensive beast at the 3. Even a young version of Ariza or Tayshaun Prince.

Took two, three seasons for Kwahi to blossom and the nurturing environment of vets and patient management (stability) are needed ingredients for that to happen.
With Phil gone, and perhaps the first time in many years a real management team in place with a sworn off Dolan we might have a chance to create that very nurturing environment. Funny, Spurs culture is a branch of the Larry Brown Tree. Larry was can come in a turn a franchise around but by year 4-5 he cooked everything around him. Mills and Perry are boring, but that's what we need now. We have not been whole since Checketts was here. Ever since Riles walked out the door front office was never in synch. You had players not fitting the coach, the coach not fitting with the GM, and the owner all over the damn place meddling with ignorance. Phil was a good concept but unfulfilled for all reasons we know.
We now have a president who is qualified as such, and GM as well. I know we all love guys that "Did it somewhere before" but Im hopeful that this management team is qualified enough. We have seen "Guys that did it before" fail in other places as well when taking a new team.

Fact is, if Mills and Perry don't create the nurturing environment then Frank won't succeed and drafting the next Kawhi leonard is a waste also.

Anger sells, don't buy!
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11/15/2017  12:28 PM
I don't want to get rid of Kanter, I want to lock him up. Best hope is he gives us some minor home town discount and we can extend him 4+ years or whatever we're allowed.

Our best hope now is to improve organically, the draft and some FA min signings where a star player like a David West signs here for min money.

Nalod
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11/15/2017  12:36 PM
franco12 wrote:I don't want to get rid of Kanter, I want to lock him up. Best hope is he gives us some minor home town discount and we can extend him 4+ years or whatever we're allowed.

Our best hope now is to improve organically, the draft and some FA min signings where a star player like a David West signs here for min money.

True. A guy like Elton Brand might have taken a discount to "come home" near the end of his career. Circumstances have to be right for the team and the player.
West gave up some big money to join up. First things are "Stability". Its why Melo demanded a NTC. Its why West took the pay cut too. Its why Durant went to GS. Good front office!!!

Anger sells, don't buy!
KnixinSix
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11/15/2017  3:14 PM
franco12 wrote:I don't want to get rid of Kanter, I want to lock him up. Best hope is he gives us some minor home town discount and we can extend him 4+ years or whatever we're allowed.

Our best hope now is to improve organically, the draft and some FA min signings where a star player like a David West signs here for min money.

I hear you on Kanter. However unless he took a ridiculously low contract to resign we can't keep him if we want any chance for 2 maxes. There is a way to keep him and clear up enough for 1 max.

However if the choice was Cousins or Kanter it's a no brainer. Cousins is about as well rounded a Center you can find.Offense,defense,dribbling,passing,3s. Heck he is averaging 5.6 assists! That's crazy.

Are we re-establishing ourselves as an attractive destination for the top FAs?

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