Chandler wrote:

nixluva wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:Agree with initial poster -- Kanter plays with so much energy/passion/effort/physicality that he is simply requiring a lot of attention -- plus he is doing dirty-work where KP can then use his tremendous size/athleticism to make the highlight type skill plays.

Kanter & KP -- are a nice match ===== Willy in no way shape or form would provide such a dynamic contrast to KP.

Willy would still add something good next to KP IMO. It's just a little different. Willy has a little more developing to do, but his raw talent is still pretty darned high. He's a very good rebounder and post player. Sets excellent Picks. Is a very good Roll Man in PnR. Willy looks like he could be a good passer as well. Willy has the beginnings of a perimeter game. He has a High IQ as well.

Kanter is just so darned PHYSICAL and a bit more mature than Willy so he's ready for a starting role. Willy needs to be groomed to provide a similar level of production. He's worth the effort of further development.

Nix why wouldn't you want Willy as a 6th man then, to emphasize his offense

Kanter is down low and freeing space for KP

WIlly would be up high with the pick, and while that works for him or the guard, how does they create synergy with KP?

I have no problem with Willy off the bench. I just think Willy could play effectively next to KP. Basically you could just run more stuff with Willy. You can run Horns Sets with KP and Willy.
You can also run the same sets you do with Kanter. Willy is versatile enough to work well with KP IMO.

LivingLegend wrote:Agree with initial poster -- Kanter plays with so much energy/passion/effort/physicality that he is simply requiring a lot of attention -- plus he is doing dirty-work where KP can then use his tremendous size/athleticism to make the highlight type skill plays.

Kanter & KP -- are a nice match ===== Willy in no way shape or form would provide such a dynamic contrast to KP.

I have always felt like Willy will eventually be a great 6th man anyways. With his scoring and passing ability, you can run the 2nd unit offense through him with great results. But Kanter is a better fit alongside KP, no doubt.

fishmike wrote:So no consideration to fit, chemistry, team building or complimenting skill sets? Sorry dude but your approach is not sound. These are not values in an excel spreadsheet, they are humans working with other humans.

I am giving consideration to those things, but doing it ACROSS KANTER'S ENTIRE NBA CAREER BEFORE HE WAS A KNICK.

And not just the last plus or minus ten games and a few preseason games.

What's more likely, the pre Knick Kanter is the real Kanter?

Or a guy basically playing for his next contract or potential for his next contract, knowing teams will be cap locked and tax payers, means the market will choke out, esp with some oversaturation for pivots, most of whom have more competitive skill sets than him.

I'm not trying to be a killjoy, but it's been a HANDFUL OF GAMES.

Is it nice the Knicks are playing well after years of suffering? Yes. That's great. I love it as a fan of the game. As a fan of the team.

But it does not mean you buy an engagement ring after one great blowjob.

You keep talking about a human element, here's a human element for you - RECENCY BIAS. Look it up. Consider how much it's swaying you right now.

This is not about my lack of ability to humanize Kanter, it's about looking at the Knicks roster from an objective and dispassionate market based perspective.

The Suns could have talked about the human element when STAT was a free agent. But they weighed it all out, and took the correct market based approach. How did that work out for them? How did that work out for the Knicks.

TripleThreat wrote:

Chandler wrote:I am convinced of the merits of this pairing.

When I was in the NFL, this is a methodology that I know a lot of the scouts used back then. I don't know what they specifically called it, I called it the "Anomaly Test"

Take either the entire unit or side of the ball or entire team if you have to, and if you want to evaluate one single player, imagine him on a roster where everyone else in said unit is "Replacement Level" i.e. exactly at league average.

Think of Scott Brosius with the Yankees, not his Yankee dynasty years, but just about every other year of his 3B MLB career. He was basically a league average 3B. Imagine a roster full of those types. Serviceable. Useful, but not elite and not creating more answers than questions.

You don't judge Kanter's individual value by measuring him just paired to Zinger. You judge him if he was on the floor with four REPLACEMENT LEVEL players. And this is where the problem begins. You pull Zinger off the roster or he gets injured, and you stick a league average guy in his place and all the warts about Kanter will start to show up.

You should pay a guy based on what he can do given the "Anomaly Test" where he is the outlier against the league average given market conditions. Not what he can do based on some very specific volatile circumstances that are fluid and have no projectible consistency.

Yes, he's playing pretty good now. Happy for him, happy for the Knicks. But it's only been a few games and it doesn't wash away his previous years of NBA production and history and question marks.

You don't buy an engagement ring after one great blowjob do you? (Well maybe some of you guys would, which would actually explain quite a bit....)

The fact that you use this as an analogy explains a hell of alot more about you than anything it would about anyone else. Just sayin.
Any way, glad to see you're not abandoning your original position on Kanter based on a happy sample size of 10 games.

And I know the senility level of this site runs high at times, but I seem to remember the Unicorn playing like a freak his rookie year when paired with Rolo, who was a real center at both ends of the floor.

You were in the NFL?

Bonn1997 wrote:I'm still not sold on Kanter. He's a nice scorer and rebounder but KOQ is the better 2-way player and the team's #s are much better with KOQ on the court. I like Kanter but don't want us to overpay him.

Believe it goes beyond the numbers, chemistry as well should be factored in. They haven't been playing long together, yet they are already one of the best front lines in the league. Time should only improve that chemistry.

Is there a stat that tracks how often other teams are driving on them, and the result? I get the feeling they are forcing teams to rely on their three more. Our 3 pt defense is more of a concern to me than interior defense. I think we're pretty good there, this early in the season

Bonn1997 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:I'm still not sold on Kanter. He's a nice scorer and rebounder but KOQ is the better 2-way player and the team's #s are much better with KOQ on the court. I like Kanter but don't want us to overpay him.

Believe it goes beyond the numbers, chemistry as well should be factored in. They haven't been playing long together, yet they are already one of the best front lines in the league. Time should only improve that chemistry.

Is there a stat that tracks how often other teams are driving on them, and the result? I get the feeling they are forcing teams to rely on their three more. Our 3 pt defense is more of a concern to me than interior defense. I think we're pretty good there, this early in the season

Occasionally, they look like one of the best front lines in the league. The team is still -29 with Kanter on the court for the season and +32 with him off. (Kanter is a statistical enigma, though, looking great in some stats and bad in others.)

Whats Kanter's +/- since we started winning?

Bonn1997 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:I'm still not sold on Kanter. He's a nice scorer and rebounder but KOQ is the better 2-way player and the team's #s are much better with KOQ on the court. I like Kanter but don't want us to overpay him.

Believe it goes beyond the numbers, chemistry as well should be factored in. They haven't been playing long together, yet they are already one of the best front lines in the league. Time should only improve that chemistry.

Is there a stat that tracks how often other teams are driving on them, and the result? I get the feeling they are forcing teams to rely on their three more. Our 3 pt defense is more of a concern to me than interior defense. I think we're pretty good there, this early in the season

Occasionally, they look like one of the best front lines in the league. The team is still -29 with Kanter on the court for the season and +32 with him off. (Kanter is a statistical enigma, though, looking great in some stats and bad in others.)

Whats Kanter's +/- since we started winning?

I did add a little more after you quoted that message.
To answer your question, in the last 7 games, the team is +11 with him on the court and +38 with him off.

Great, thanks. Does this have to do with our big 4th quarter comebacks?

Bonn1997 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:I'm still not sold on Kanter. He's a nice scorer and rebounder but KOQ is the better 2-way player and the team's #s are much better with KOQ on the court. I like Kanter but don't want us to overpay him.

Believe it goes beyond the numbers, chemistry as well should be factored in. They haven't been playing long together, yet they are already one of the best front lines in the league. Time should only improve that chemistry.

Is there a stat that tracks how often other teams are driving on them, and the result? I get the feeling they are forcing teams to rely on their three more. Our 3 pt defense is more of a concern to me than interior defense. I think we're pretty good there, this early in the season

Occasionally, they look like one of the best front lines in the league. The team is still -29 with Kanter on the court for the season and +32 with him off. (Kanter is a statistical enigma, though, looking great in some stats and bad in others.) If you're saying it goes beyond the numbers, I agree that occasionally the two look like an outstanding pairing and I'm willing to give it much more time before making any decisions. As of right now, I think KOQ is the better all around player though.

KOQ may be the better player but not the better pairing

When Kanter is in the game the defense has to collapse in, put their brute on him, etc. It gives KP more freedom to operate.

KOQ has a lot of nice attributes but those don't include post ups

SupremeCommander wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:I'm still not sold on Kanter. He's a nice scorer and rebounder but KOQ is the better 2-way player and the team's #s are much better with KOQ on the court. I like Kanter but don't want us to overpay him.

Believe it goes beyond the numbers, chemistry as well should be factored in. They haven't been playing long together, yet they are already one of the best front lines in the league. Time should only improve that chemistry.

Is there a stat that tracks how often other teams are driving on them, and the result? I get the feeling they are forcing teams to rely on their three more. Our 3 pt defense is more of a concern to me than interior defense. I think we're pretty good there, this early in the season

Occasionally, they look like one of the best front lines in the league. The team is still -29 with Kanter on the court for the season and +32 with him off. (Kanter is a statistical enigma, though, looking great in some stats and bad in others.)

Whats Kanter's +/- since we started winning?

I did add a little more after you quoted that message.
To answer your question, in the last 7 games, the team is +11 with him on the court and +38 with him off.

Great, thanks. Does this have to do with our big 4th quarter comebacks?

Maybe. But having him off the court seems critical to our comebacks.

Typically we rely on three point shooting during our comebacks

Bonn1997 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:I'm still not sold on Kanter. He's a nice scorer and rebounder but KOQ is the better 2-way player and the team's #s are much better with KOQ on the court. I like Kanter but don't want us to overpay him.

Believe it goes beyond the numbers, chemistry as well should be factored in. They haven't been playing long together, yet they are already one of the best front lines in the league. Time should only improve that chemistry.

Is there a stat that tracks how often other teams are driving on them, and the result? I get the feeling they are forcing teams to rely on their three more. Our 3 pt defense is more of a concern to me than interior defense. I think we're pretty good there, this early in the season

Occasionally, they look like one of the best front lines in the league. The team is still -29 with Kanter on the court for the season and +32 with him off. (Kanter is a statistical enigma, though, looking great in some stats and bad in others.)

Whats Kanter's +/- since we started winning?

I did add a little more after you quoted that message.
To answer your question, in the last 7 games, the team is +11 with him on the court and +38 with him off.

Great, thanks. Does this have to do with our big 4th quarter comebacks?

Maybe. But having him off the court seems critical to our comebacks.

Typically we rely on three point shooting during our comebacks

Look, I'm just reporting what has happened statistically. After 10 games (small sample), the team has definitely done better (on both ends) with KOQ than Kanter on the court.

Honest question: is there some accepted wisdom of how many games is a statistically significant sample size for a season, and what the confidence levels are?

I ask because in some contexts 5% is significant

Chandler wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:I'm still not sold on Kanter. He's a nice scorer and rebounder but KOQ is the better 2-way player and the team's #s are much better with KOQ on the court. I like Kanter but don't want us to overpay him.

Believe it goes beyond the numbers, chemistry as well should be factored in. They haven't been playing long together, yet they are already one of the best front lines in the league. Time should only improve that chemistry.

Is there a stat that tracks how often other teams are driving on them, and the result? I get the feeling they are forcing teams to rely on their three more. Our 3 pt defense is more of a concern to me than interior defense. I think we're pretty good there, this early in the season

Occasionally, they look like one of the best front lines in the league. The team is still -29 with Kanter on the court for the season and +32 with him off. (Kanter is a statistical enigma, though, looking great in some stats and bad in others.)

Whats Kanter's +/- since we started winning?

I did add a little more after you quoted that message.
To answer your question, in the last 7 games, the team is +11 with him on the court and +38 with him off.

Great, thanks. Does this have to do with our big 4th quarter comebacks?

Maybe. But having him off the court seems critical to our comebacks.

Typically we rely on three point shooting during our comebacks

Look, I'm just reporting what has happened statistically. After 10 games (small sample), the team has definitely done better (on both ends) with KOQ than Kanter on the court.

Honest question: is there some accepted wisdom of how many games is a statistically significant sample size for a season, and what the confidence levels are?

I ask because in some contexts 5% is significant