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KOQ and Kuz for Crowder straight up
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fishmike
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11/6/2017  11:41 AM
Money works. Crowder has been terrible there. Either he's a bad fit or he hates it. His contract remains a great asset moving forward or come trade deadline. Cle's small frontline with Love at center stinks. Its just not working for them. The 2-1 clears a spot for Noah and we get a nice defensive 3/4 on a great contract with a good rep around the league. I think this makes sense for both squads. But wtf do I know
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BigDaddyG
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11/6/2017  12:05 PM
I think Crowder's situation is similar to Lee's last year. One solid defender can't fix all of the roster's weaknesses. That and he's not hitting his three at a decent rate. He's not that much better than Lance if he"s not hitting from downtown.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
nyk4ever
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11/6/2017  12:06 PM
fishmike wrote:Money works. Crowder has been terrible there. Either he's a bad fit or he hates it. His contract remains a great asset moving forward or come trade deadline. Cle's small frontline with Love at center stinks. Its just not working for them. The 2-1 clears a spot for Noah and we get a nice defensive 3/4 on a great contract with a good rep around the league. I think this makes sense for both squads. But wtf do I know

this would be a great trade. crowder would be a shoe-in for our team-style of ball. cleveland could use a big. kuz might actually fill a nice role and offer some more spacing on the court.

"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
Knixkik
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11/6/2017  12:35 PM
Would be nice but i don't think they will do it. How about KOQ and Kuz for Shumpert and Cleveland's 2018 pick. A fun fact about the Boston/Bk pick going to cleveland is they are now allowed to trade their own draft pick. They will obviously get better as the season goes on, but maybe the pick lands around the late teens/low 20s. We would have 3 very good picks in this draft to continue to move the needle on this rebuild.
Swishfm3
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11/6/2017  12:38 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/6/2017  12:40 PM
No.

I know you're a Hernangomez homer but he is the one that needs to go (I say that not know if it would work money wise).

KOQ is settled in the rotation and a reason to early team success, why would you want to disrupt that?

Then there's this...http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=57489

franco12
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11/6/2017  12:42 PM
how about we trade Noah to a team with cap room and trade our minimally protected first round and Chicago's 2nd rounder and just erase his contract?

I hate trading our picks - but clear Noah and it starts making sense to keep Kanter long term.

Knixkik
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11/6/2017  12:43 PM
franco12 wrote:how about we trade Noah to a team with cap room and trade our minimally protected first round and Chicago's 2nd rounder and just erase his contract?

I hate trading our picks - but clear Noah and it starts making sense to keep Kanter long term.

There's no reason to trade Noah unless you have to clear his contract for a max free agent that wants to come here.

BRIGGS
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11/6/2017  12:51 PM
I personally want to create cap space for LBJ. I think LBJ is a smart smart guy. We hold a max slot for him--I think were in the game--Jae Crowder has been dreadful. i like our team but this would put us in the mega sphere.

Think about a team with LBJ KP THJ and our role players. We need a few subtle changes. Id like to see how the team plays with Noah at C as well.

newyorknewyork
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11/6/2017  12:54 PM
Swishfm3 wrote:No.

I know you're a Hernangomez homer but he is the one that needs to go (I say that not know if it would work money wise).

KOQ is settled in the rotation and a reason to early team success, why would you want to disrupt that?

Then there's this...http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=57489

Nah its a good move. Noah can plug into KOQs role. Crowder is an upgrade at SF. Crowder & Noah is a better combination for immediate and long term than KOQ & KUZ.

smackeddog
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11/6/2017  12:59 PM
I never got why the media loved the Cavs/Celtic trade from the Cavs perspective- IT is out a long time and I suspect will be bad upon his return (who has recovered well from an arthritic hip injury?!) and then is a free agent. The Nets pick I think will be in the 7 range. That leaves them with Crowder who has stunk up the place. If there were no injury worries with IT, then yep that trade would have been great, but that coupled with the fact that people over estimated how high the Nets pick will be makes this trade a potential stinker.
fitzfarm
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11/6/2017  1:01 PM
Knixkik wrote:
franco12 wrote:how about we trade Noah to a team with cap room and trade our minimally protected first round and Chicago's 2nd rounder and just erase his contract?

I hate trading our picks - but clear Noah and it starts making sense to keep Kanter long term.

There's no reason to trade Noah unless you have to clear his contract for a max free agent that wants to come here.


I’d rather just strech Noah and have his contract be a minimal cap hit for a few years. Noah is untradable unless we take on a just as useless bad contract so what’s the point in trading for a bad player on a bad contract. Noah for Bledsoe works strait up it might work if they keep demolishing his trade value... but bledsoe ruins Frankie’s development so again why not just strech Noah. Noah is not needed.

As for crowder, clevland would be foolish not to take KOQ for crowder, there center play has been nothing short of god awful O’quinn is a serious upgrade to Tompson.

The real question is why would we move our best bench big for a guy who is looking like a shell of his former self. I think all the trades and moving are taking its toll on crowder who is still a young guy. To go from Dallas,the Celtics,the Cavs in 3-4 years is tough.

And really how much of a upgrade is crowder to LEE ? Again is it enough to move our best big off our bench.... I don’t think so

fishmike
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11/6/2017  1:16 PM
smackeddog wrote:I never got why the media loved the Cavs/Celtic trade from the Cavs perspective- IT is out a long time and I suspect will be bad upon his return (who has recovered well from an arthritic hip injury?!) and then is a free agent. The Nets pick I think will be in the 7 range. That leaves them with Crowder who has stunk up the place. If there were no injury worries with IT, then yep that trade would have been great, but that coupled with the fact that people over estimated how high the Nets pick will be makes this trade a potential stinker.
Oh I totally agree and think Ainge did a great job avoiding having to sign IT to a big contract with a bad hip (or coming off surgery).
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BigDaddyG
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11/6/2017  1:19 PM
BRIGGS wrote:I personally want to create cap space for LBJ. I think LBJ is a smart smart guy. We hold a max slot for him--I think were in the game--Jae Crowder has been dreadful. i like our team but this would put us in the mega sphere.

Think about a team with LBJ KP THJ and our role players. We need a few subtle changes. Id like to see how the team plays with Noah at C as well.

I'm tired of creating cap space for LBJ. That strategy will end up with us overpaying for some guy at the end of his prime who doesn't fit the team.

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
StarksEwing1
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11/6/2017  1:20 PM
Swishfm3 wrote:No.

I know you're a Hernangomez homer but he is the one that needs to go (I say that not know if it would work money wise).

KOQ is settled in the rotation and a reason to early team success, why would you want to disrupt that?

Then there's this...http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=57489

Perry has pretty much said he wont trade willy. Plus as much as i like KOQ he is gone at the end of the year so we might as well get something for him
fishmike
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11/6/2017  1:33 PM
Swishfm3 wrote:No.

1)I know you're a Hernangomez homer but he is the one that needs to go (I say that not know if it would work money wise).

2)KOQ is settled in the rotation and a reason to early team success, why would you want to disrupt that?

3) Then there's this...http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=57489

so to answer:
1) Not sure I am a homer, but few things hurt more franchises more than prematurely trading young talent. I feel the same way about Dotson I do about Willy. Untouchable? No, but I consider both lottery pick caliber talent and value them accordingly. If thats overvaluing I am ok with erring on that side

2) I dont want to. However good teams that sustain winning are forward thinking. KOQ is playing very well for us. What is his long term place and role here? With Willy/Kanter and Noah I am not sure there is one. Somehow the glut of bigmen needs to break up. The thought process is that KOQ can yield a future asset while Noah or Willy steps into his role

3)Im ok with that also. Nothing has changed. Again, its just about forward thinking and opportunity. I am not looking to make whole sale changes. The only change is the 16mpg at back up center are up for grabs and we have two good candidates in Willy/Noah. Both good for different reasons.

I think its more likely we get value for KOQ than Willy. Willy has appeal to a rebuilding young team. Well thats what the Knicks are, winning or not. So deals for Willy are tougher because we would want a young prospect or quality draft pick back. Two things that young rebuilding teams dont give up. However KOQ is ready to help a playoff team now. He's got a good jumper, is an excellent passer and protects the rim. He would bring a lot to a team like Hou, GS, Cle, Portland... teams looking to add depth. KOQ is a nice bench player (we are seeing that first hand) and IMO worth a late first rounder or young player not getting burn. In Crowder's case he's an asset, but one that be a long term fixture.

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fishmike
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11/6/2017  1:42 PM
fitzfarm wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
franco12 wrote:how about we trade Noah to a team with cap room and trade our minimally protected first round and Chicago's 2nd rounder and just erase his contract?

I hate trading our picks - but clear Noah and it starts making sense to keep Kanter long term.

There's no reason to trade Noah unless you have to clear his contract for a max free agent that wants to come here.


I’d rather just strech Noah and have his contract be a minimal cap hit for a few years. Noah is untradable unless we take on a just as useless bad contract so what’s the point in trading for a bad player on a bad contract. Noah for Bledsoe works strait up it might work if they keep demolishing his trade value... but bledsoe ruins Frankie’s development so again why not just strech Noah. Noah is not needed.

As for crowder, clevland would be foolish not to take KOQ for crowder, there center play has been nothing short of god awful O’quinn is a serious upgrade to Tompson.

The real question is why would we move our best bench big for a guy who is looking like a shell of his former self. I think all the trades and moving are taking its toll on crowder who is still a young guy. To go from Dallas,the Celtics,the Cavs in 3-4 years is tough.

And really how much of a upgrade is crowder to LEE ? Again is it enough to move our best big off our bench.... I don’t think so

Noah is going to play. It sounds like the staff was impressed by his shape. Back up center seems perfect for him. If he's reasonably healthy thats a good player to have. He's got a lot of pride. Noah is more valuable playing for us than being paid not to.

Crowder isnt a huge upgrade from Lee. He's cheaper and younger though, also he's bigger. So all things being fluid he gives us a cost controlled good player that gives JH more options and the Knicks a good chip/asset if opportunity shows itself.

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fitzfarm
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11/6/2017  2:03 PM
I think if we move a important piece you set the bar high, crowder is not enough for a player leading the league in blocks off the bench and is a rebounding machine.... if and only if we decide to move on from O’quinn I say we call Miami about j Winslow.

Their stats are almost identical minus the blocks, Winslow is on a short leash and is running out of time in Miami... he might just need a change in team to get back on track.... talk about lock down defensive 3 his shot is still questionable at best but at 21 he’s still just a baby

Knickoftime
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11/6/2017  2:17 PM
fitzfarm wrote:I think if we move a important piece you set the bar high, crowder is not enough for a player leading the league in blocks off the bench and is a rebounding machine.... if and only if we decide to move on from O’quinn I say we call Miami about j Winslow.

Their stats are almost identical minus the blocks, Winslow is on a short leash and is running out of time in Miami... he might just need a change in team to get back on track.... talk about lock down defensive 3 his shot is still questionable at best but at 21 he’s still just a baby

Back on track?

When was he ever on track?

WaltLongmire
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11/6/2017  2:44 PM
fishmike wrote:
Swishfm3 wrote:No.

1)I know you're a Hernangomez homer but he is the one that needs to go (I say that not know if it would work money wise).

2)KOQ is settled in the rotation and a reason to early team success, why would you want to disrupt that?

3) Then there's this...http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=57489

so to answer:
1) Not sure I am a homer, but few things hurt more franchises more than prematurely trading young talent. I feel the same way about Dotson I do about Willy. Untouchable? No, but I consider both lottery pick caliber talent and value them accordingly. If thats overvaluing I am ok with erring on that side

2) I dont want to. However good teams that sustain winning are forward thinking. KOQ is playing very well for us. What is his long term place and role here? With Willy/Kanter and Noah I am not sure there is one. Somehow the glut of bigmen needs to break up. The thought process is that KOQ can yield a future asset while Noah or Willy steps into his role

3)Im ok with that also. Nothing has changed. Again, its just about forward thinking and opportunity. I am not looking to make whole sale changes. The only change is the 16mpg at back up center are up for grabs and we have two good candidates in Willy/Noah. Both good for different reasons.

I think its more likely we get value for KOQ than Willy. Willy has appeal to a rebuilding young team. Well thats what the Knicks are, winning or not. So deals for Willy are tougher because we would want a young prospect or quality draft pick back. Two things that young rebuilding teams dont give up. However KOQ is ready to help a playoff team now. He's got a good jumper, is an excellent passer and protects the rim. He would bring a lot to a team like Hou, GS, Cle, Portland... teams looking to add depth. KOQ is a nice bench player (we are seeing that first hand) and IMO worth a late first rounder or young player not getting burn. In Crowder's case he's an asset, but one that be a long term fixture.


Crux of the matter..a playoff team is not looking for a long-term prospect-they want immediate contributions. The idea of squeezing a team only works if that team is in a win now mode/playoff run. We are a rebuilding team who would want draft picks or young players we can develop...and rebuilding teams like us are not going to give us young prospects or a potential lottery pick for another young prospect. Makes no sense.
EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
fishmike
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11/6/2017  3:35 PM
WaltLongmire wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Swishfm3 wrote:No.

1)I know you're a Hernangomez homer but he is the one that needs to go (I say that not know if it would work money wise).

2)KOQ is settled in the rotation and a reason to early team success, why would you want to disrupt that?

3) Then there's this...http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=57489

so to answer:
1) Not sure I am a homer, but few things hurt more franchises more than prematurely trading young talent. I feel the same way about Dotson I do about Willy. Untouchable? No, but I consider both lottery pick caliber talent and value them accordingly. If thats overvaluing I am ok with erring on that side

2) I dont want to. However good teams that sustain winning are forward thinking. KOQ is playing very well for us. What is his long term place and role here? With Willy/Kanter and Noah I am not sure there is one. Somehow the glut of bigmen needs to break up. The thought process is that KOQ can yield a future asset while Noah or Willy steps into his role

3)Im ok with that also. Nothing has changed. Again, its just about forward thinking and opportunity. I am not looking to make whole sale changes. The only change is the 16mpg at back up center are up for grabs and we have two good candidates in Willy/Noah. Both good for different reasons.

I think its more likely we get value for KOQ than Willy. Willy has appeal to a rebuilding young team. Well thats what the Knicks are, winning or not. So deals for Willy are tougher because we would want a young prospect or quality draft pick back. Two things that young rebuilding teams dont give up. However KOQ is ready to help a playoff team now. He's got a good jumper, is an excellent passer and protects the rim. He would bring a lot to a team like Hou, GS, Cle, Portland... teams looking to add depth. KOQ is a nice bench player (we are seeing that first hand) and IMO worth a late first rounder or young player not getting burn. In Crowder's case he's an asset, but one that be a long term fixture.


Crux of the matter..a playoff team is not looking for a long-term prospect-they want immediate contributions. The idea of squeezing a team only works if that team is in a win now mode/playoff run. We are a rebuilding team who would want draft picks or young players we can develop...and rebuilding teams like us are not going to give us young prospects or a potential lottery pick for another young prospect. Makes no sense.
exactly... which is why KOQ is the chip that makes sense. Sorry Kyle.. as they say its a business.
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KOQ and Kuz for Crowder straight up

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