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Might have to consider KOQ/Kanter long term
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Knixkik
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11/4/2017  2:05 PM
WaltLongmire wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
newyorker4ever wrote:I'm still waiting for everyone to stop saying E.Kanter doesn't play defense. The kid does play defense, now his one on one defense isn't as good as his help/team defense but he gives the effort when he's going one on one.

Now about KOQ....this dude has gotten better every single year he's been with us and he's now a legit backup center and think he could even get away with being a starter depending on the team. The energy he brings along with his rebounding, passing, put backs and shot blocking has been great for us.

Well said and great point about Kanter's defense. The guy works hard on both ends of the court.

Banter definitely has improved his defense. It coincides with his great conditioning. He has a few defensive lapses that are very noticeable, but it shouldn't overshadow his otherwise improved defense.

As for O'Quinn, I still believe he will be moved sooner rather than later. He seems like the ideal backup center for a playoff team like Cleveland, Boston, OKC, GS etc. So many teams can use this guy this season. He has been a revelation here, but i have to think the front office is going to want Willy handling backup center duties at some point. Kanter and Willy can be a strong center duo long-term just as much as Kanter/O'Quinn.


As some have pointed out...KOQ has a player option next season. Unless he loves the playing in his home town beyond belief, he will want more money...and he should want it, since it will be his last chance for big $$ as a player, and I don't think his value can ever be greater.

Have to believe that he is gone before the trading deadline. He's become a solid player after that mediocre first year for us, and you have to think there are some borderline or better teams who can use a decent big man for their playoff run.

A smart organization in the Knicks situation would not pay o'quinn what he is likely worth. They would deal him for a future asset and replace him with willy, who brings most of what o'quinn does but at a fraction of the cost. Well run organizations develop players on cheap contracts before resigning good role players for market value contracts.

AUTOADVERT
GustavBahler
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11/4/2017  2:14 PM
Knixkik wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
newyorker4ever wrote:I'm still waiting for everyone to stop saying E.Kanter doesn't play defense. The kid does play defense, now his one on one defense isn't as good as his help/team defense but he gives the effort when he's going one on one.

Now about KOQ....this dude has gotten better every single year he's been with us and he's now a legit backup center and think he could even get away with being a starter depending on the team. The energy he brings along with his rebounding, passing, put backs and shot blocking has been great for us.

Well said and great point about Kanter's defense. The guy works hard on both ends of the court.

Banter definitely has improved his defense. It coincides with his great conditioning. He has a few defensive lapses that are very noticeable, but it shouldn't overshadow his otherwise improved defense.

As for O'Quinn, I still believe he will be moved sooner rather than later. He seems like the ideal backup center for a playoff team like Cleveland, Boston, OKC, GS etc. So many teams can use this guy this season. He has been a revelation here, but i have to think the front office is going to want Willy handling backup center duties at some point. Kanter and Willy can be a strong center duo long-term just as much as Kanter/O'Quinn.


As some have pointed out...KOQ has a player option next season. Unless he loves the playing in his home town beyond belief, he will want more money...and he should want it, since it will be his last chance for big $$ as a player, and I don't think his value can ever be greater.

Have to believe that he is gone before the trading deadline. He's become a solid player after that mediocre first year for us, and you have to think there are some borderline or better teams who can use a decent big man for their playoff run.

A smart organization in the Knicks situation would not pay o'quinn what he is likely worth. They would deal him for a future asset and replace him with willy, who brings most of what o'quinn does but at a fraction of the cost. Well run organizations develop players on cheap contracts before resigning good role players for market value contracts.

Not nearly enough defense. Willy's D improving would be the one thing that would make me want the Knicks to commit to him long term. And be OK with a bench role as well.

Otherwise I would get the most for him. Its the same reason I wanted to see David Lee traded. Very talented, but no D.

Jmpasq
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11/4/2017  2:33 PM
Knixkik wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
newyorker4ever wrote:I'm still waiting for everyone to stop saying E.Kanter doesn't play defense. The kid does play defense, now his one on one defense isn't as good as his help/team defense but he gives the effort when he's going one on one.

Now about KOQ....this dude has gotten better every single year he's been with us and he's now a legit backup center and think he could even get away with being a starter depending on the team. The energy he brings along with his rebounding, passing, put backs and shot blocking has been great for us.

Well said and great point about Kanter's defense. The guy works hard on both ends of the court.

Banter definitely has improved his defense. It coincides with his great conditioning. He has a few defensive lapses that are very noticeable, but it shouldn't overshadow his otherwise improved defense.

As for O'Quinn, I still believe he will be moved sooner rather than later. He seems like the ideal backup center for a playoff team like Cleveland, Boston, OKC, GS etc. So many teams can use this guy this season. He has been a revelation here, but i have to think the front office is going to want Willy handling backup center duties at some point. Kanter and Willy can be a strong center duo long-term just as much as Kanter/O'Quinn.


As some have pointed out...KOQ has a player option next season. Unless he loves the playing in his home town beyond belief, he will want more money...and he should want it, since it will be his last chance for big $$ as a player, and I don't think his value can ever be greater.

Have to believe that he is gone before the trading deadline. He's become a solid player after that mediocre first year for us, and you have to think there are some borderline or better teams who can use a decent big man for their playoff run.

A smart organization in the Knicks situation would not pay o'quinn what he is likely worth. They would deal him for a future asset and replace him with willy, who brings most of what o'quinn does but at a fraction of the cost. Well run organizations develop players on cheap contracts before resigning good role players for market value contracts.

Yep, thats what a smart organization does. I like O'quinn a lot but paying him 12-15 million a year for 4 years destroys a chance at bringing in max FA's. The Noah contract is why we can't keep him

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CrushAlot
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11/4/2017  3:04 PM
I think we know what we're doing..... Phil Jackson
nixluva
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11/4/2017  3:56 PM
CrushAlot wrote:

Great video and it helps to show why the Knicks have been so much better in 1st quarters this season. The Starters have really come together as a unit defensively. Last year we got smoked most 1st quarters and now the Knicks are really winning 1st quarters with regularity. If they keep this going they're going to eventually become a good team. Just gotta fix their 3rd qtr efforts.

CrushAlot
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11/4/2017  4:12 PM
nixluva wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:

Great video and it helps to show why the Knicks have been so much better in 1st quarters this season. The Starters have really come together as a unit defensively. Last year we got smoked most 1st quarters and now the Knicks are really winning 1st quarters with regularity. If they keep this going they're going to eventually become a good team. Just gotta fix their 3rd qtr efforts.

Agree the third quarters have been brutal but not much else to complain about.
I think we know what we're doing..... Phil Jackson
Bonn1997
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11/4/2017  6:51 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
newyorker4ever wrote:I'm still waiting for everyone to stop saying E.Kanter doesn't play defense. The kid does play defense, now his one on one defense isn't as good as his help/team defense but he gives the effort when he's going one on one.

Now about KOQ....this dude has gotten better every single year he's been with us and he's now a legit backup center and think he could even get away with being a starter depending on the team. The energy he brings along with his rebounding, passing, put backs and shot blocking has been great for us.

Well said and great point about Kanter's defense. The guy works hard on both ends of the court.

Banter definitely has improved his defense. It coincides with his great conditioning. He has a few defensive lapses that are very noticeable, but it shouldn't overshadow his otherwise improved defense.

As for O'Quinn, I still believe he will be moved sooner rather than later. He seems like the ideal backup center for a playoff team like Cleveland, Boston, OKC, GS etc. So many teams can use this guy this season. He has been a revelation here, but i have to think the front office is going to want Willy handling backup center duties at some point. Kanter and Willy can be a strong center duo long-term just as much as Kanter/O'Quinn.


As some have pointed out...KOQ has a player option next season. Unless he loves the playing in his home town beyond belief, he will want more money...and he should want it, since it will be his last chance for big $$ as a player, and I don't think his value can ever be greater.

Have to believe that he is gone before the trading deadline. He's become a solid player after that mediocre first year for us, and you have to think there are some borderline or better teams who can use a decent big man for their playoff run.

A smart organization in the Knicks situation would not pay o'quinn what he is likely worth. They would deal him for a future asset and replace him with willy, who brings most of what o'quinn does but at a fraction of the cost. Well run organizations develop players on cheap contracts before resigning good role players for market value contracts.

Not nearly enough defense. Willy's D improving would be the one thing that would make me want the Knicks to commit to him long term. And be OK with a bench role as well.

Otherwise I would get the most for him. Its the same reason I wanted to see David Lee traded. Very talented, but no D.

Yeah Willy doesn't bring most of what KOQ does. But Willy at 2 mil plus 10 mil invested elsewhere is smarter than 10+ mil per year invested in KOQ on this roster. We can't afford to lose him without getting something decent in the backcourt or at SF though.

newyorker4ever
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11/4/2017  7:57 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
newyorker4ever wrote:I'm still waiting for everyone to stop saying E.Kanter doesn't play defense. The kid does play defense, now his one on one defense isn't as good as his help/team defense but he gives the effort when he's going one on one.

Now about KOQ....this dude has gotten better every single year he's been with us and he's now a legit backup center and think he could even get away with being a starter depending on the team. The energy he brings along with his rebounding, passing, put backs and shot blocking has been great for us.

Well said and great point about Kanter's defense. The guy works hard on both ends of the court.

It's gonna be a tough decision on what to do about Kanter after this season if he doesn't opt into his final year of his deal cause he sure is playing well for us and him and KP are one of the best 4-5 combos in the league down low. This unfortunately is where the Noah contract will come back to hurt us again cause if we weren't paying him that $17 mil per then we could of offered a new contract to Kanter and would still have money for another bigger name but if we signed Kanter to a new contract with having Noah we'd have too much of our cap used on the center position.

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11/4/2017  7:11 PM
StarksEwing1 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
fishmike wrote:I like this combo next to KP. I dont want KP banging against 5s. Same reason you dont want Dirk at center. 24 minutes each is really kind of perfect. They both go full speed for 24 minutes a night. They both bring very different things, but both are a huge physical presence. Kanter doesnt protect the rim. He's ok m2m and brutal on help. He's also fearless, tries really hard and has a great motor for about 25 minutes and absolutely kills it on the glass. Kanter wears you down. Guys like Kanter are horrible to play against. You saw it get chippy last night. KOQ blocks shots, has nice range on his jumper and is a fantastic passer. He's great at finding cutting guards.

We get to have a nice long look, but so far I think this is exactly the bigman rotation I would like to see. KP exclusively at the 4 next to a center. I am a huge Willy fan but if there is a long athletic wing that defends I am looking hard. Not sure Im sold on Harkless. I value Willy more than that. I am open though.

I also think both Kanter and KOQ would be open to staying long tern without breaking the bank. KOQ is home, and technically so is Kanter as he cant go back to his. I think they could get bigger deals on the open market but maybe 4 years $50mm for KOQ and keep Kanter about where he is.. thats about $30mm for your center spot which is reasonable in this CBA especially when you consider KOQ and Kanter's production

20ppg, 17rebs, 2.3 blocks, 3assists and shooting almost 60% combined

You still have Noah for injuries, etc... maybe you see a little KOQ at the 4. Not ideal but there may be nights. Point is Noah expires when you gotta pay KP so there is a bit of fluidity there.

If there is a way to package Willy and our pick, for a high draft pick, put us in the running for a player like Doncic, I hope the Knicks go for it.

Willy still has that new car smell, so to speak. He has that Rookie first team award. I would sell Willy as recent draft pick who has only scratched the surface. One or two high picks in the next draft (depending on where we finish) might give us the young talent to challenge a team like The Sixers in the coming years. Look at that squad, and their age.

I was very much against doing something like this last season, because this team had little talent to surround KP with for the long term. That's not the case anymore, although the Knicks have more work to do.

Would rather see Perry give it a try, instead of acquiring another role player, who might not move the needle all that much.


Willy is the odd man out and he also has the highest trade value of all our bigs. He has two cost-controlled years after this one though. And he is a good player. That means we have to get something quite good for him.

Unless its a two-way SF who can start for the next few years, or a playoff caliber PG, who still has plenty left in the tank. Id rather use Willy to improve our position in the draft. I get the feeling that Willy gives us the best chance to trade for a high pick, that we will get for a while. We should start making the playoffs more regularly in the coming years, more than now I hope. I say go for it.

Well judging from the fact that they didn't get hose on the melo trade, and they didn't cave in to get bledsoe or irving. I don't think willy is going any where this season

yeah perry pretty much said he has no interest in trading willy unless we get blown away from a trade offer. Problem is that his value is not high because he has barely played. Basically teams would try to rip us off and Perry understands this so i agree willy wont be going anywhere. Im pretty sure oquinn will be trades and kanter will probably opt out

When did Perry say that about Willy and do you have the link or article or whatever for it?? Not saying it didn't happen, i just don't remember seeing anything like that.

nyknickzingis
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11/5/2017  5:54 AM
We may lose both at season's end in free agency.
Both will likely become unrestricted free agents.
Bidding wars.
Contenders might swoop in and Knicks are barely competitive.

Noah will be returning soon. He has value as a defender, rebounder and passer.

We should wait and see what Noah can do and then make a decision.
No matter what, I keep Willy, because he's on contract 2 more years and skill wise on offense, may be the most skilled 5 we have.

StarksEwing1
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11/5/2017  6:22 AM
nyknickzingis wrote:We may lose both at season's end in free agency.
Both will likely become unrestricted free agents.
Bidding wars.
Contenders might swoop in and Knicks are barely competitive.

Noah will be returning soon. He has value as a defender, rebounder and passer.

We should wait and see what Noah can do and then make a decision.
No matter what, I keep Willy, because he's on contract 2 more years and skill wise on offense, may be the most skilled 5 we have.

This. Its too risky to trade Willy. Both kanter and oquinn will certainly opt out to get better deals. Thats why i would trade oquinn because as much as i like him we cant overpay him.
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11/5/2017  6:38 AM
StarksEwing1 wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:We may lose both at season's end in free agency.
Both will likely become unrestricted free agents.
Bidding wars.
Contenders might swoop in and Knicks are barely competitive.

Noah will be returning soon. He has value as a defender, rebounder and passer.

We should wait and see what Noah can do and then make a decision.
No matter what, I keep Willy, because he's on contract 2 more years and skill wise on offense, may be the most skilled 5 we have.

This. Its too risky to trade Willy. Both kanter and oquinn will certainly opt out to get better deals. Thats why i would trade oquinn because as much as i like him we cant overpay him.

People are being short sighted. Just last year some thought Willy was better than KP. It's all about time. Willy is 23, one year into the league and shooting a ridiculous 68.8 percent. He may not be a good defender, but neither was Kanter most of his career. With time and the right smarts, Willy will get better on defense. We know he has the offense.

We need to think longterm. Kyle's a great veteran, if he can be signed on a reasonable deal. Kanter has really helped. However, neither will be winning a championship with Porzingis and Frank in 3 years. Both may have moved on. Willy could still be here, in his prime, as would KP and Frank.

What we need to do is find out what Noah can give. If Noah can do what Kyle's been doing off the bench, I think I deal Kyle by trade deadline. I try to get Kanter to come back at the end of the summer on a 3 year 60$M deal. If he wants more, let him walk. Next season, Kanter/Willy/Noah 3 headed monster at 5. A year after that in summer of 2019, you can use the stretch provision on Noah's last year deal and clear massive capspace as Knicks already will have some.

StarksEwing1
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11/5/2017  7:12 AM
nyknickzingis wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:We may lose both at season's end in free agency.
Both will likely become unrestricted free agents.
Bidding wars.
Contenders might swoop in and Knicks are barely competitive.

Noah will be returning soon. He has value as a defender, rebounder and passer.

We should wait and see what Noah can do and then make a decision.
No matter what, I keep Willy, because he's on contract 2 more years and skill wise on offense, may be the most skilled 5 we have.

This. Its too risky to trade Willy. Both kanter and oquinn will certainly opt out to get better deals. Thats why i would trade oquinn because as much as i like him we cant overpay him.

People are being short sighted. Just last year some thought Willy was better than KP. It's all about time. Willy is 23, one year into the league and shooting a ridiculous 68.8 percent. He may not be a good defender, but neither was Kanter most of his career. With time and the right smarts, Willy will get better on defense. We know he has the offense.

We need to think longterm. Kyle's a great veteran, if he can be signed on a reasonable deal. Kanter has really helped. However, neither will be winning a championship with Porzingis and Frank in 3 years. Both may have moved on. Willy could still be here, in his prime, as would KP and Frank.

What we need to do is find out what Noah can give. If Noah can do what Kyle's been doing off the bench, I think I deal Kyle by trade deadline. I try to get Kanter to come back at the end of the summer on a 3 year 60$M deal. If he wants more, let him walk. Next season, Kanter/Willy/Noah 3 headed monster at 5. A year after that in summer of 2019, you can use the stretch provision on Noah's last year deal and clear massive capspace as Knicks already will have some.

Agree on all points.
fishmike
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11/5/2017  9:32 AM
Jmpasq wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
newyorker4ever wrote:I'm still waiting for everyone to stop saying E.Kanter doesn't play defense. The kid does play defense, now his one on one defense isn't as good as his help/team defense but he gives the effort when he's going one on one.

Now about KOQ....this dude has gotten better every single year he's been with us and he's now a legit backup center and think he could even get away with being a starter depending on the team. The energy he brings along with his rebounding, passing, put backs and shot blocking has been great for us.

Well said and great point about Kanter's defense. The guy works hard on both ends of the court.

Banter definitely has improved his defense. It coincides with his great conditioning. He has a few defensive lapses that are very noticeable, but it shouldn't overshadow his otherwise improved defense.

As for O'Quinn, I still believe he will be moved sooner rather than later. He seems like the ideal backup center for a playoff team like Cleveland, Boston, OKC, GS etc. So many teams can use this guy this season. He has been a revelation here, but i have to think the front office is going to want Willy handling backup center duties at some point. Kanter and Willy can be a strong center duo long-term just as much as Kanter/O'Quinn.


As some have pointed out...KOQ has a player option next season. Unless he loves the playing in his home town beyond belief, he will want more money...and he should want it, since it will be his last chance for big $$ as a player, and I don't think his value can ever be greater.

Have to believe that he is gone before the trading deadline. He's become a solid player after that mediocre first year for us, and you have to think there are some borderline or better teams who can use a decent big man for their playoff run.

A smart organization in the Knicks situation would not pay o'quinn what he is likely worth. They would deal him for a future asset and replace him with willy, who brings most of what o'quinn does but at a fraction of the cost. Well run organizations develop players on cheap contracts before resigning good role players for market value contracts.

Yep, thats what a smart organization does. I like O'quinn a lot but paying him 12-15 million a year for 4 years destroys a chance at bringing in max FA's. The Noah contract is why we can't keep him

Not all role players are created equal. You dont let good talent that is part of a sustainable winning formula walk because paying your own players market value is somehow regarded as not what a smart org does. That makes zero sense. Who is the top tier FA you want to get? You have a few years. The Knicks are not in a position to attract good FAs until they show a sustainable winning model. At that point when KOQ and THjr expire you use that money for Giannis. He's not sniffing this scene unless we are already scratching 50 wins and its an offense guys want to play in. So at this stage you keep guys filling out the stat sheet doing the blue collar work and who are making your franchise player thrive.

First its a basketball team.

fishmike - Making UltimateKnicks great again
fishmike
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11/5/2017  9:42 AM
CrushAlot wrote:
Kanter has been pulled for defending poorly. Coach can do that now. The only player he cant bench is KP, and that guy's #1 focus is by leading by example "especially on the defensive end."

To me it all starts and stops with this. Star player plays this way, and the coach has the depth to pull anyone who isnt defending at a 100%. Nobody is going to mistaken Enes for Alonzo, but Enes is a physical force and he can that way on both ends. You dont have to be Zo or Deke to challenge shots and be in the right spots. It IS hard work though. KOQ is in a contract year. He's more than happy to give a 100% on defense if those minutes are up for grabs. Oh.. and you got the old guy Noah in the woodwork also who I suspect if he's healthy is going to command some run also. A great passing, ball moving big, who sets bruising screens and defends with gusto? So far having these big guys on the floor with KP is proving to be THE formula.

As the Knicks start winning some games and even losing ones they feel they COULD win I think this culture grows. Everyone defends and there is some healthy pressure to make your shots cause there are other guys who deserve some burn. I mean McD has taken Lance's minutes, and he's done so by going 100% on defense and being a better offensive player. Sure Lance is prob a better defender but McD is a big boy also and doesnt back down one bit and is out there with something to prove. Guess what? He is. I think this is something new, healthy and GREAT.

fishmike - Making UltimateKnicks great again
newyorknewyork
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11/5/2017  10:31 AM
nyknickzingis wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:We may lose both at season's end in free agency.
Both will likely become unrestricted free agents.
Bidding wars.
Contenders might swoop in and Knicks are barely competitive.

Noah will be returning soon. He has value as a defender, rebounder and passer.

We should wait and see what Noah can do and then make a decision.
No matter what, I keep Willy, because he's on contract 2 more years and skill wise on offense, may be the most skilled 5 we have.

This. Its too risky to trade Willy. Both kanter and oquinn will certainly opt out to get better deals. Thats why i would trade oquinn because as much as i like him we cant overpay him.

People are being short sighted. Just last year some thought Willy was better than KP. It's all about time. Willy is 23, one year into the league and shooting a ridiculous 68.8 percent. He may not be a good defender, but neither was Kanter most of his career. With time and the right smarts, Willy will get better on defense. We know he has the offense.

We need to think longterm. Kyle's a great veteran, if he can be signed on a reasonable deal. Kanter has really helped. However, neither will be winning a championship with Porzingis and Frank in 3 years. Both may have moved on. Willy could still be here, in his prime, as would KP and Frank.

What we need to do is find out what Noah can give. If Noah can do what Kyle's been doing off the bench, I think I deal Kyle by trade deadline. I try to get Kanter to come back at the end of the summer on a 3 year 60$M deal. If he wants more, let him walk. Next season, Kanter/Willy/Noah 3 headed monster at 5. A year after that in summer of 2019, you can use the stretch provision on Noah's last year deal and clear massive capspace as Knicks already will have some.

Don't think its short sightedness. Kanter & KOQ formula game by game is proving to be a quality one. With Willy we are hoping that he could produce the same effect while Kanter and KOQ are proving the kind of effect they have. Kanter is 24 and KOQ is 27. But I do agree that the Noah and Willy duo, financially makes more sense. Kanter and KOQ opting out would free up close to 30mil.

But there is the possibility that we let Kanter and KOQ go and we don't get the same results from Noah and Willy. Jeff is gonna have to let Kanter and KOQ gets some rest days and see if Noah when he comes back and Willy can offer the same impact with extended mins.

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11/5/2017  11:05 AM
I don’t know about you guys but I think Noah will have a very hard time cracking the rotation let alone beat out Willy for the scraps minutes if O’quinn or kanter get in foul trouble...

Noah I think gets stretched and sooner rather then later, esp if kanter keeps this up and we offer him a big long contract. No way we let Noah’s contract get in the way of our young super tandem of KP and Kanter.

If O’quinn keeps up his play it just justifies stretching Noah even more.... i really feel Noah has no part on this team, love his heart and spirit but its not worth loosing O’quinn or Kanter over.

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11/5/2017  11:17 AM
newyorknewyork wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:We may lose both at season's end in free agency.
Both will likely become unrestricted free agents.
Bidding wars.
Contenders might swoop in and Knicks are barely competitive.

Noah will be returning soon. He has value as a defender, rebounder and passer.

We should wait and see what Noah can do and then make a decision.
No matter what, I keep Willy, because he's on contract 2 more years and skill wise on offense, may be the most skilled 5 we have.

This. Its too risky to trade Willy. Both kanter and oquinn will certainly opt out to get better deals. Thats why i would trade oquinn because as much as i like him we cant overpay him.

People are being short sighted. Just last year some thought Willy was better than KP. It's all about time. Willy is 23, one year into the league and shooting a ridiculous 68.8 percent. He may not be a good defender, but neither was Kanter most of his career. With time and the right smarts, Willy will get better on defense. We know he has the offense.

We need to think longterm. Kyle's a great veteran, if he can be signed on a reasonable deal. Kanter has really helped. However, neither will be winning a championship with Porzingis and Frank in 3 years. Both may have moved on. Willy could still be here, in his prime, as would KP and Frank.

What we need to do is find out what Noah can give. If Noah can do what Kyle's been doing off the bench, I think I deal Kyle by trade deadline. I try to get Kanter to come back at the end of the summer on a 3 year 60$M deal. If he wants more, let him walk. Next season, Kanter/Willy/Noah 3 headed monster at 5. A year after that in summer of 2019, you can use the stretch provision on Noah's last year deal and clear massive capspace as Knicks already will have some.

Don't think its short sightedness. Kanter & KOQ formula game by game is proving to be a quality one. With Willy we are hoping that he could produce the same effect while Kanter and KOQ are proving the kind of effect they have. Kanter is 24 and KOQ is 27. But I do agree that the Noah and Willy duo, financially makes more sense. Kanter and KOQ opting out would free up close to 30mil.

But there is the possibility that we let Kanter and KOQ go and we don't get the same results from Noah and Willy. Jeff is gonna have to let Kanter and KOQ gets some rest days and see if Noah when he comes back and Willy can offer the same impact with extended mins.

If we want to see the Knicks contend, I believe we need bench players who can D up as well. Kanter was traded because his D (or lack thereof) made it an easier decision. Willy's D, even after playing all summer, camp, preseason, has not gotten better. Plenty of time to change that, but not so much that he should be considered untouchable next summer. Not unless his D improves quite a bit.

As for Kanter, his D is improving. Right now Porzingis amd Kanter look like one of the best front lines in the NBA. If this is sustainable, it would be crazy not to lock him up. We had one of the best front lines in the league with Porzingis and Lopez. Its also crazy to tempt fate again by breaking up another top front line. Not for Willy IMO.

GustavBahler
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11/5/2017  11:19 AM
fitzfarm wrote:I don’t know about you guys but I think Noah will have a very hard time cracking the rotation let alone beat out Willy for the scraps minutes if O’quinn or kanter get in foul trouble...

Noah I think gets stretched and sooner rather then later, esp if kanter keeps this up and we offer him a big long contract. No way we let Noah’s contract get in the way of our young super tandem of KP and Kanter.

If O’quinn keeps up his play it just justifies stretching Noah even more.... i really feel Noah has no part on this team, love his heart and spirit but its not worth loosing O’quinn or Kanter over.

Dont believe we should do anything to tie up the cap beyond Noah's deal. Never works out well for the Knicks.

martin
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11/5/2017  12:04 PM
Just put this scenario out for everyone, making some obvious assumptions:

Player 		age	 2018-19 
-------------------------------------
Joakim Noah 32 18,530,000
Tim Hardaway 26 17,325,000
Courtney Lee 32 12,253,780
Lance Thomas 29 7,119,650
KP 22 5,697,054
Ron Baker 25 4,544,400
Frank Ntilikina 20 4,155,720
Willy 24 1,544,951
Damyean Dotson 24 1,378,242
1st Round pick 4,000,000
2rd Round pick 1,000,000
------------------------------------
77,548,797

Cap holds will add a few more million to salary number, but Knicks will have somewhere near $20M, cap will be around $101M.

That's within a range to be able to sign someone like Cousins (with a few moves).

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Might have to consider KOQ/Kanter long term

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