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what it will say about Melo if we go to playoffs ?
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Chandler
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11/5/2017  8:06 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
mlby1215 wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
mlby1215 wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
mlby1215 wrote:Then media will turn it into Phil's fault. Sure he won 11 champions but who cares?

Certainly not me. I don't care how many rings he brought to other cities as a coach. He gave us KP. That is great. Then he put guys like Melo and Rose on the floor who interfered with KP's development and the team's winning.

And draft picks, cap rooms, Willy, and Frank.

We don't have to worship this dude, and we have to give him credit for what he has done. Look at this way, IF Mills just copies what Phil had done,..


He'll give huge contracts to bad players that interfere with our young players' development. And he'll force an outdated offense that brings out the worst in all players. Be thankful we don't have a president who mocks the offensive approach of the Warriors.

Sure he has done something wrong. It is just like you watch fox it is Clinton, you watch CNN it is trump, but is it really important that the guy has to be perfect? Or it is just that when you don't like someone, you can always pick something wrong to criticize? A man in charge WILL always has mistakes because he makes decisions. The only guy who has no mistake is the guy has done nothing.


Just assume we are in a world there is no Phil era. Mills was the prez in 14/15, and he didn't do any Phil's mistakes like trading away those old Knicks.

He kept Melo, shump, JR Smith, THjr and Chandler for the current price. Of course the team would not win 4th pick.

Melo (125mil / 5yrs)
Shump (40mil / 4yrs)
JR Smith (57mil / 4yrs)
THjr (71mil/ 4yrs)
Chandler ( 57mil/ 4yrs)

So you really like these team more? It would be 7 or 8 seed and first round exit every year. So what actually Phil Jackson has RUINED? (oh maybe our mental health. I give you that )

The only one who can complain is Melo. Phil wasted his prime but again, Melo should take a lot of responsibility as well. He was the leader, he should have led by example like playing better defense.


He was one of the worst at free agent signings and trades in my lifetime but he did draft well. With drafting, it's such a small sample of decisions that there is no way to know if that is luck, skill, or both, though.

Hyperbole in full effect

Did you already forget the likes of eddy curry and mcdyess

And who do you have in mind other than Noah

And why is the sample size any better for trades than drafts

DJMUSIC: Fisher talked a good game in Post game but aside from that Derek Fisher was ALL CHIT CHAT SH_t and produced nothing!
AUTOADVERT
Chandler
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11/5/2017  8:12 AM
Vmart wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
fishmike wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:
Welpee wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:I don't think we can make the playoffs.
KP has never had a fully healthy season and I question if he can have one. He will miss some time, and when he does, we won't win more than 1 or 2 in 10 games. We're a .500 team if KP can keep this up all season, which will make him a MVP at season's end if we make it into the playoffs.

So I think all it says about Melo is that Phil was right, Melo caused a ton of the ball stopping and lack of teamwork issues. However Melo can also be a team player and he would have fit with this current team. What made last year's team truly despicably selfish was the combination of Melo and Rose. Two of them had zero chemistry and they never really looked to pass first.

Plus we were forced to run an offense that didn't fit the personnel we had/have.

We still run Some Triangle and lots of post ups. KP's game is much more evolved. We actually now have two great post players. Kanter in the low post. KP in the midrange and midpost. Both know how to play with their back to the basket.

I think it makes a huge difference when you have these changes.

1)KP with a back to the basket midrange and mid post game, Kanter with a low post game.
2)A point guard that looks to pass first like Jack vs Rose who was scoring and not looking to pass.
3)A perimeter player no longer there that isolated and held the ball for long stretches and stalled the offense.

We're a better team with less talent because of those things. KP finally developed some moves closer to the basket and realizes how to shoot over smalls now. Melo isn't holding the ball and stalling the offense. Arguably the biggest difference is Rose. Rose was like a cancer. I liked his scoring, but man, watching how Jack and Frank play is so refreshing.

Interesting points. I brought this up on another thread. First let me start by saying it was best for Knicks to move on from Melo and see if KP can be the franchise player. Also think, all sides involved are better off for doing so. We also picked up a huge difference maker this year in Kanter.

However, some will make it about ONE players short comings as oppose to what is so obvious.

1) NOT ONE PLAYER liked the Triangle. Just look at what all players said about the system. Just look at how methodical everyone looked. The amount of PnR's we are doing, Double high posts and weaves is more in one game than all of last year.
2) Phil created a BAD enviroment. KP didnt go to exit meeting because of it.
3) We had NO guard fascilitator. Rose is making a LBJ team lack luster. Jack has been huge getting everyone involved.
4) We were not as deep. We have a starting center that is averaging ticks short of a double double. We have a 7'3 guy that is playing like a 7'3 star with his post up game. We have Jack who is a point guard that is focused/capable of creating like a PG should. Not a Jose or Sasha or Rose type. If you looked at our second unit of Sasha, Baker, LT (as the best player) and a inconsistent KO, we were not competitive. More like D league.

But okay. Lets look at Melo as the culprit and major reason for our 4-4 start.

Fist complaint- High Usage and does not share the ball. Ok. KP is ranked number 4 in the ENTIRE league in usage! He had 0 assists last night and close to going under 1 per game. So what, No one cares and it did not affect our wins. Oh and did we forget DadMelo? Did that change the losing? Melo lead in assists two out of the three Phil years.

Second. Our defense got better and he ALONE was the cause of our issues. OK. we are allowing 105 points per game. Better than last year but not exactly shutting teams down. While OKC was second before last nights games. And allowing 96.4. Who is on their team now? Oh and BTW Melo ranked 39 in defense so far this year!! Timmy 122!! Is my point that he is a good defender. Absolutely not. But by the rational of guys on here taking numbers into account, he would considered so.

Again, my ONLY point about Melo or any other of our players that get blamed for losing is that its not just ONE GUY that makes or breaks a team. For a team to be as bad as we were, you need a bad coach, bad GM, bad PRez, bad offensive and defensive systems and BAD PLAYERS. Saying its just one guy is just a spoiled FAN's way of blaming someone for the fact he lost his bragging rights at work and cant wear his over sized/over priced jersey anymore. Maybe its just guys that did not learn the "Scapegoat" premise or never actually played sports at any level. Because anyone that has played sports before, knows that it takes a whole team of players to get a win. In basketball it takes a minimum of 10.

My analogy of how unrealistic this is. Lets say Knicks dont make the playoffs this year but KP averages over 30. Do you blame him? Lets say he wins 54 next year, has a MVP type year, we make the playoffs but lose in the conference finals. Do you blame just him? Lets say the team struggles the following year and the FO decide to bring in a Prez to clean house but that Prez puts a bunch of D leaguers around him and we look like ****. Do you blame him? Will you pick on his usage rates and his assists to justify a trade? I wouldn't.

I am glad that Melo has moved on. Glad we are looking good and beating some teams. Glad KP has changed his game and playing more inside the arc. Glad we have guys like Kanter. But to say a TEAMS success is due to changing ONE player and not ALL the things mentioned above?

dude.. this is like fake news to distract from one thing. KP gives full effort on both ends. Melo did not play defense and he refused to stop holding the ball. Why does everyone say "now we can focus on defense every night"

Its happening. Youve been to the games. That effort was there last year. Starts with the alpha guy. KP is complaining a bit too much but thats part of NBA politics. He needs to get his calls. But he's flying around on defense giving it 100%. If you cant see that as where everything starts its because you dont want to

Whats happening? We have better players? We have 7'3 guy finally posting up? We have a double double center. A good bench? A good PG fascilitator? Yes. What does that have to do with my post and this thread? My post was on why Melo ,not being here, is the biggest reason for this years success. 4 amd 4. Last year we 16 and 16 at years end?

Btw. Funny. So KP plays both sides but you fail to mention his usage rate? Which you had no problem mentioning, at nauseam, with Melo. You fail to mention KP's rebounding as a 7'3 guy, and his lack of sharing ball, which you also always do when talking about Melo? Which btw. I don't thinks matters when your winning. But goes to show my point how fans are so inconsistent with their logic.

Like I said above. will never agree with guys that blame one player for a teams losing. Just a simple FAN sided argument. One that is usually filled with hater aid. Listed several meaningful impacts as well. But we have discussed this too many times. Time to move on. As parties in either side of the argument can never be convinced to change their stance. So enjoy your Saturday Fish. Looking forward to tomorrow's game.

I don’t think you ever understood efficiency. Melo is and will always be inefficient. That is the key you main player cannot be inefficient. If a player is making numbers on sheer volume then he is inefficient. You can talk usage but if he shooting at or above 50% clip he is making the team better. Even if he doesn’t accumulate assists. I do agree with you somewhat that his assist have to be better so to avoid being Melo. Which you commented as a dig at Melo.

Why are people complaining about KPs assists?

He’s taking shots 6’ from the basket and is shooting over defenders. Who should he be passing too and why

When he’s on the perimeter he passes. He just doesn’t lead to an immediate basket

Perhaps my glasses are too rose colored but I don’t see him as a black hole at all

DJMUSIC: Fisher talked a good game in Post game but aside from that Derek Fisher was ALL CHIT CHAT SH_t and produced nothing!
Bonn1997
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11/5/2017  8:16 AM
Chandler wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
mlby1215 wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
mlby1215 wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
mlby1215 wrote:Then media will turn it into Phil's fault. Sure he won 11 champions but who cares?

Certainly not me. I don't care how many rings he brought to other cities as a coach. He gave us KP. That is great. Then he put guys like Melo and Rose on the floor who interfered with KP's development and the team's winning.

And draft picks, cap rooms, Willy, and Frank.

We don't have to worship this dude, and we have to give him credit for what he has done. Look at this way, IF Mills just copies what Phil had done,..


He'll give huge contracts to bad players that interfere with our young players' development. And he'll force an outdated offense that brings out the worst in all players. Be thankful we don't have a president who mocks the offensive approach of the Warriors.

Sure he has done something wrong. It is just like you watch fox it is Clinton, you watch CNN it is trump, but is it really important that the guy has to be perfect? Or it is just that when you don't like someone, you can always pick something wrong to criticize? A man in charge WILL always has mistakes because he makes decisions. The only guy who has no mistake is the guy has done nothing.


Just assume we are in a world there is no Phil era. Mills was the prez in 14/15, and he didn't do any Phil's mistakes like trading away those old Knicks.

He kept Melo, shump, JR Smith, THjr and Chandler for the current price. Of course the team would not win 4th pick.

Melo (125mil / 5yrs)
Shump (40mil / 4yrs)
JR Smith (57mil / 4yrs)
THjr (71mil/ 4yrs)
Chandler ( 57mil/ 4yrs)

So you really like these team more? It would be 7 or 8 seed and first round exit every year. So what actually Phil Jackson has RUINED? (oh maybe our mental health. I give you that )

The only one who can complain is Melo. Phil wasted his prime but again, Melo should take a lot of responsibility as well. He was the leader, he should have led by example like playing better defense.


He was one of the worst at free agent signings and trades in my lifetime but he did draft well. With drafting, it's such a small sample of decisions that there is no way to know if that is luck, skill, or both, though.

Hyperbole in full effect

Did you already forget the likes of eddy curry and mcdyess

And who do you have in mind other than Noah

And why is the sample size any better for trades than drafts


2 draft picks a year vs. far more trades/signings.
I said one of the worst. Most of the other worst were our organization too unfortunately.
Who do I have in mind other than Noah? I've written a lot about this. The .3 billion (300 million) spent on Melo, Lee, Noah, and L Thomas was about the worst use of money I can imagine. I criticized all of these in advance and so did many others here and on the metrics sites.
Bonn1997
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11/5/2017  8:18 AM
Chandler wrote:
Vmart wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
fishmike wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:
Welpee wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:I don't think we can make the playoffs.
KP has never had a fully healthy season and I question if he can have one. He will miss some time, and when he does, we won't win more than 1 or 2 in 10 games. We're a .500 team if KP can keep this up all season, which will make him a MVP at season's end if we make it into the playoffs.

So I think all it says about Melo is that Phil was right, Melo caused a ton of the ball stopping and lack of teamwork issues. However Melo can also be a team player and he would have fit with this current team. What made last year's team truly despicably selfish was the combination of Melo and Rose. Two of them had zero chemistry and they never really looked to pass first.

Plus we were forced to run an offense that didn't fit the personnel we had/have.

We still run Some Triangle and lots of post ups. KP's game is much more evolved. We actually now have two great post players. Kanter in the low post. KP in the midrange and midpost. Both know how to play with their back to the basket.

I think it makes a huge difference when you have these changes.

1)KP with a back to the basket midrange and mid post game, Kanter with a low post game.
2)A point guard that looks to pass first like Jack vs Rose who was scoring and not looking to pass.
3)A perimeter player no longer there that isolated and held the ball for long stretches and stalled the offense.

We're a better team with less talent because of those things. KP finally developed some moves closer to the basket and realizes how to shoot over smalls now. Melo isn't holding the ball and stalling the offense. Arguably the biggest difference is Rose. Rose was like a cancer. I liked his scoring, but man, watching how Jack and Frank play is so refreshing.

Interesting points. I brought this up on another thread. First let me start by saying it was best for Knicks to move on from Melo and see if KP can be the franchise player. Also think, all sides involved are better off for doing so. We also picked up a huge difference maker this year in Kanter.

However, some will make it about ONE players short comings as oppose to what is so obvious.

1) NOT ONE PLAYER liked the Triangle. Just look at what all players said about the system. Just look at how methodical everyone looked. The amount of PnR's we are doing, Double high posts and weaves is more in one game than all of last year.
2) Phil created a BAD enviroment. KP didnt go to exit meeting because of it.
3) We had NO guard fascilitator. Rose is making a LBJ team lack luster. Jack has been huge getting everyone involved.
4) We were not as deep. We have a starting center that is averaging ticks short of a double double. We have a 7'3 guy that is playing like a 7'3 star with his post up game. We have Jack who is a point guard that is focused/capable of creating like a PG should. Not a Jose or Sasha or Rose type. If you looked at our second unit of Sasha, Baker, LT (as the best player) and a inconsistent KO, we were not competitive. More like D league.

But okay. Lets look at Melo as the culprit and major reason for our 4-4 start.

Fist complaint- High Usage and does not share the ball. Ok. KP is ranked number 4 in the ENTIRE league in usage! He had 0 assists last night and close to going under 1 per game. So what, No one cares and it did not affect our wins. Oh and did we forget DadMelo? Did that change the losing? Melo lead in assists two out of the three Phil years.

Second. Our defense got better and he ALONE was the cause of our issues. OK. we are allowing 105 points per game. Better than last year but not exactly shutting teams down. While OKC was second before last nights games. And allowing 96.4. Who is on their team now? Oh and BTW Melo ranked 39 in defense so far this year!! Timmy 122!! Is my point that he is a good defender. Absolutely not. But by the rational of guys on here taking numbers into account, he would considered so.

Again, my ONLY point about Melo or any other of our players that get blamed for losing is that its not just ONE GUY that makes or breaks a team. For a team to be as bad as we were, you need a bad coach, bad GM, bad PRez, bad offensive and defensive systems and BAD PLAYERS. Saying its just one guy is just a spoiled FAN's way of blaming someone for the fact he lost his bragging rights at work and cant wear his over sized/over priced jersey anymore. Maybe its just guys that did not learn the "Scapegoat" premise or never actually played sports at any level. Because anyone that has played sports before, knows that it takes a whole team of players to get a win. In basketball it takes a minimum of 10.

My analogy of how unrealistic this is. Lets say Knicks dont make the playoffs this year but KP averages over 30. Do you blame him? Lets say he wins 54 next year, has a MVP type year, we make the playoffs but lose in the conference finals. Do you blame just him? Lets say the team struggles the following year and the FO decide to bring in a Prez to clean house but that Prez puts a bunch of D leaguers around him and we look like ****. Do you blame him? Will you pick on his usage rates and his assists to justify a trade? I wouldn't.

I am glad that Melo has moved on. Glad we are looking good and beating some teams. Glad KP has changed his game and playing more inside the arc. Glad we have guys like Kanter. But to say a TEAMS success is due to changing ONE player and not ALL the things mentioned above?

dude.. this is like fake news to distract from one thing. KP gives full effort on both ends. Melo did not play defense and he refused to stop holding the ball. Why does everyone say "now we can focus on defense every night"

Its happening. Youve been to the games. That effort was there last year. Starts with the alpha guy. KP is complaining a bit too much but thats part of NBA politics. He needs to get his calls. But he's flying around on defense giving it 100%. If you cant see that as where everything starts its because you dont want to

Whats happening? We have better players? We have 7'3 guy finally posting up? We have a double double center. A good bench? A good PG fascilitator? Yes. What does that have to do with my post and this thread? My post was on why Melo ,not being here, is the biggest reason for this years success. 4 amd 4. Last year we 16 and 16 at years end?

Btw. Funny. So KP plays both sides but you fail to mention his usage rate? Which you had no problem mentioning, at nauseam, with Melo. You fail to mention KP's rebounding as a 7'3 guy, and his lack of sharing ball, which you also always do when talking about Melo? Which btw. I don't thinks matters when your winning. But goes to show my point how fans are so inconsistent with their logic.

Like I said above. will never agree with guys that blame one player for a teams losing. Just a simple FAN sided argument. One that is usually filled with hater aid. Listed several meaningful impacts as well. But we have discussed this too many times. Time to move on. As parties in either side of the argument can never be convinced to change their stance. So enjoy your Saturday Fish. Looking forward to tomorrow's game.

I don’t think you ever understood efficiency. Melo is and will always be inefficient. That is the key you main player cannot be inefficient. If a player is making numbers on sheer volume then he is inefficient. You can talk usage but if he shooting at or above 50% clip he is making the team better. Even if he doesn’t accumulate assists. I do agree with you somewhat that his assist have to be better so to avoid being Melo. Which you commented as a dig at Melo.

Why are people complaining about KPs assists?

He’s taking shots 6’ from the basket and is shooting over defenders. Who should he be passing too and why

When he’s on the perimeter he passes. He just doesn’t lead to an immediate basket

Perhaps my glasses are too rose colored but I don’t see him as a black hole at all


You can look at his shot chart here.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/porzikr01.html
His most common shot location is 10-16 feet. Second most common is 3 point range.
Chandler
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11/5/2017  8:21 AM
nyknickzingis wrote:I don't get the Phil was horrible arguments.

Willy/O'Quinn
Porzingis/Thomas
Kuz
Lee/Dotson
Frank/Baker

And got Melo so hot and bothered that he accepted to move on and let NY rebuild.

Phil's main problem was his poor relationship with the media and his meddling with the coaching staff's offensive playbook. I don't think he was nearly as bad a GM as fans make him out to be.

Who is the best young developing scorer in the league? It may well be KP and Giannis. We have KP.
Who is the best young defensive guard prospect in the league? One of them is definitely Frank.
Who is a 5 man shooting 68.8 percent and shows McHale like moves in the post? Willy.
Who is one of the best backups in the league right now at 5? O'Quinn.

Solid team guys as vets in Lance Thomas, CLee.

I don't know why everyone hated the job Phil did so much. Looking back at the last 20 years, Phil's 3 years were the best job anyone ever did over that time, if you look at the big picture and grand scheme of things. Did anyone else get us Porzingis like talent? Frank like talent at 8? Willy like talent in the second round? Most of all, actually convince Dolan to rebuild around a young team with no big names or stars? Come on, what Phil did was exactly what this team needed for yeons. If he could keep his mouth shut and not push the Triangle on the coaching staff, he'd still be here.

Agree. He was not perfect for sure but looked at objectively he turned things around for he better

Our history of GMs has been that most who enjoyed success (modest) mortgaged the future

This team will likely finish the season as a better team than the one today as they develop together
Next season will likely be better still. It’s been a long time since we could legitimately say that. Even when we had modest success in the past it was w old players in decline

Phil could be smug, arrogant and even an ahole. That’s why I think he receives such hatred

Take a guy like presti. Traded away harden. Lost KD for 0. Now buying old broken players
Yet somehow a darling. 500
Team w an MVP?!?

DJMUSIC: Fisher talked a good game in Post game but aside from that Derek Fisher was ALL CHIT CHAT SH_t and produced nothing!
GustavBahler
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11/5/2017  8:52 AM
Different roster, different system, no Frank, no THJ, no Jack, no Kanter, playing well. Mostly crappy rosters around Melo. We can pretend that its mostly on him, if really thats important, I guess.

All it says to me is that its KP's team now.

CrushAlot
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11/5/2017  9:02 AM
Chandler wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
mlby1215 wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
mlby1215 wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
mlby1215 wrote:Then media will turn it into Phil's fault. Sure he won 11 champions but who cares?

Certainly not me. I don't care how many rings he brought to other cities as a coach. He gave us KP. That is great. Then he put guys like Melo and Rose on the floor who interfered with KP's development and the team's winning.

And draft picks, cap rooms, Willy, and Frank.

We don't have to worship this dude, and we have to give him credit for what he has done. Look at this way, IF Mills just copies what Phil had done,..


He'll give huge contracts to bad players that interfere with our young players' development. And he'll force an outdated offense that brings out the worst in all players. Be thankful we don't have a president who mocks the offensive approach of the Warriors.

Sure he has done something wrong. It is just like you watch fox it is Clinton, you watch CNN it is trump, but is it really important that the guy has to be perfect? Or it is just that when you don't like someone, you can always pick something wrong to criticize? A man in charge WILL always has mistakes because he makes decisions. The only guy who has no mistake is the guy has done nothing.


Just assume we are in a world there is no Phil era. Mills was the prez in 14/15, and he didn't do any Phil's mistakes like trading away those old Knicks.

He kept Melo, shump, JR Smith, THjr and Chandler for the current price. Of course the team would not win 4th pick.

Melo (125mil / 5yrs)
Shump (40mil / 4yrs)
JR Smith (57mil / 4yrs)
THjr (71mil/ 4yrs)
Chandler ( 57mil/ 4yrs)

So you really like these team more? It would be 7 or 8 seed and first round exit every year. So what actually Phil Jackson has RUINED? (oh maybe our mental health. I give you that )

The only one who can complain is Melo. Phil wasted his prime but again, Melo should take a lot of responsibility as well. He was the leader, he should have led by example like playing better defense.


He was one of the worst at free agent signings and trades in my lifetime but he did draft well. With drafting, it's such a small sample of decisions that there is no way to know if that is luck, skill, or both, though.

Hyperbole in full effect

Did you already forget the likes of eddy curry and mcdyess

And who do you have in mind other than Noah

And why is the sample size any better for trades than drafts


If you include Early, Thanasis and Lou his drafting gets a bit closer to mediocre. Also, his ability to accidentally tank when he thought he had playoff caliber rosters is being disregarded as a fault at roster assembly and being seen as strength in drafting.
In regards to trading, he is the only exec that I am aware of that lets everyone know he is done with a player, trashes their character and then goes out to see what the market is for that player.

I also am a bit surprised that some are giving him credit for Melo leaving. Phil gave Melo a horrible contract witha huge trade kicker and a NTC. That was all on Phil. His boy Charlie Rosen said this so passing the blame onto Dolan for Phil's mistake is wrong.

I think we know what we're doing..... Phil Jackson
martin
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11/5/2017  11:15 AM
nyknickzingis wrote:I don't get the Phil was horrible arguments.

Willy/O'Quinn
Porzingis/Thomas
Kuz
Lee/Dotson
Frank/Baker

And got Melo so hot and bothered that he accepted to move on and let NY rebuild.

Phil's main problem was his poor relationship with the media and his meddling with the coaching staff's offensive playbook. I don't think he was nearly as bad a GM as fans make him out to be.

Who is the best young developing scorer in the league? It may well be KP and Giannis. We have KP.
Who is the best young defensive guard prospect in the league? One of them is definitely Frank.
Who is a 5 man shooting 68.8 percent and shows McHale like moves in the post? Willy.
Who is one of the best backups in the league right now at 5? O'Quinn.

Solid team guys as vets in Lance Thomas, CLee.

I don't know why everyone hated the job Phil did so much. Looking back at the last 20 years, Phil's 3 years were the best job anyone ever did over that time, if you look at the big picture and grand scheme of things. Did anyone else get us Porzingis like talent? Frank like talent at 8? Willy like talent in the second round? Most of all, actually convince Dolan to rebuild around a young team with no big names or stars? Come on, what Phil did was exactly what this team needed for yeons. If he could keep his mouth shut and not push the Triangle on the coaching staff, he'd still be here.

I would add that he brought in Gaines but ****ed up by not hiring a legit GM. If he hired Perry or someone like that 3 years ago and let that person do all of the day to day that Mills was supposedly doing, then maybe he would have had a shot.

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meloshouldgo
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11/5/2017  1:08 PM
Think about it this way - for 6 years Melo apologists and trolls have told us the he holds the ball and doesn't pass because he never had anyone around him worth passing to.
Now that he has two all stars around him with a complement of players that can win it all his assist numbers have been cut from 2.8 per game to 1.9 per game.

Even with a elite team around him, he is a net negative player (BPM = - 0.5) with a VORP of 0.1 - which essentially means his "performance" is exactly equal to the average replacement player. But the trolls will tell you he deserves all of his $25M - being a player of his "stature". I am sure he is playing even worse because of the residual effects of having to play the triangle for half a season last year, yeah that must be it.

That's all you need to know about Queen Melo and the trolls of the round table.

The only things that trickle down are wages and horse shit
meloshouldgo
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11/5/2017  1:09 PM
BTW go back to the top of the thread and see how quickly they changed the subject from Melo to Phil? That's what I am talking about... so predictable.
The only things that trickle down are wages and horse shit
Knickoftime
Posts: 23204
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Member: #3370

11/5/2017  1:13 PM
meloshouldgo wrote:Think about it this way - for 6 years Melo apologists and trolls have told us the he holds the ball and doesn't pass because he never had anyone around him worth passing to.
Now that he has two all stars around him with a complement of players that can win it all his assist numbers have been cut from 2.8 per game to 1.9 per game.

Even with a elite team around him, he is a net negative player (BPM = - 0.5) with a VORP of 0.1 - which essentially means his "performance" is exactly equal to the average replacement player. But the trolls will tell you he deserves all of his $25M - being a player of his "stature". I am sure he is playing even worse because of the residual effects of having to play the triangle for half a season last year, yeah that must be it.

That's all you need to know about Queen Melo and the trolls of the round table.

He isn't on the Knicks anymore.

CrushAlot
Posts: 55242
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Joined: 7/25/2003
Member: #452
USA
11/5/2017  1:14 PM
meloshouldgo wrote:Think about it this way - for 6 years Melo apologists and trolls have told us the he holds the ball and doesn't pass because he never had anyone around him worth passing to.
Now that he has two all stars around him with a complement of players that can win it all his assist numbers have been cut from 2.8 per game to 1.9 per game.

Even with a elite team around him, he is a net negative player (BPM = - 0.5) with a VORP of 0.1 - which essentially means his "performance" is exactly equal to the average replacement player. But the trolls will tell you he deserves all of his $25M - being a player of his "stature". I am sure he is playing even worse because of the residual effects of having to play the triangle for half a season last year, yeah that must be it.

That's all you need to know about Queen Melo and the trolls of the round table.


Yeah. Why don't you go back to your old user name from 6 years ago?
I think we know what we're doing..... Phil Jackson
GustavBahler
Posts: 32946
Alba Posts: 15
Joined: 7/12/2010
Member: #3186

11/5/2017  1:21 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:Think about it this way - for 6 years Melo apologists and trolls have told us the he holds the ball and doesn't pass because he never had anyone around him worth passing to.
Now that he has two all stars around him with a complement of players that can win it all his assist numbers have been cut from 2.8 per game to 1.9 per game.

Even with a elite team around him, he is a net negative player (BPM = - 0.5) with a VORP of 0.1 - which essentially means his "performance" is exactly equal to the average replacement player. But the trolls will tell you he deserves all of his $25M - being a player of his "stature". I am sure he is playing even worse because of the residual effects of having to play the triangle for half a season last year, yeah that must be it.

That's all you need to know about Queen Melo and the trolls of the round table.


Yeah. Why don't you go back to your old user name from 6 years ago?

Posters who would never STFU about Melo, EVER. Calling other posters "trolls". Now Ive heard everything.

meloshouldgo
Posts: 23980
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11/5/2017  1:26 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:Think about it this way - for 6 years Melo apologists and trolls have told us the he holds the ball and doesn't pass because he never had anyone around him worth passing to.
Now that he has two all stars around him with a complement of players that can win it all his assist numbers have been cut from 2.8 per game to 1.9 per game.

Even with a elite team around him, he is a net negative player (BPM = - 0.5) with a VORP of 0.1 - which essentially means his "performance" is exactly equal to the average replacement player. But the trolls will tell you he deserves all of his $25M - being a player of his "stature". I am sure he is playing even worse because of the residual effects of having to play the triangle for half a season last year, yeah that must be it.

That's all you need to know about Queen Melo and the trolls of the round table.


Yeah. Why don't you go back to your old user name from 6 years ago?

Dude - I don't have an old user name. And I am also keeping the one I have. OK?

The only things that trickle down are wages and horse shit
meloshouldgo
Posts: 23980
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Member: #5801

11/5/2017  1:28 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:Think about it this way - for 6 years Melo apologists and trolls have told us the he holds the ball and doesn't pass because he never had anyone around him worth passing to.
Now that he has two all stars around him with a complement of players that can win it all his assist numbers have been cut from 2.8 per game to 1.9 per game.

Even with a elite team around him, he is a net negative player (BPM = - 0.5) with a VORP of 0.1 - which essentially means his "performance" is exactly equal to the average replacement player. But the trolls will tell you he deserves all of his $25M - being a player of his "stature". I am sure he is playing even worse because of the residual effects of having to play the triangle for half a season last year, yeah that must be it.

That's all you need to know about Queen Melo and the trolls of the round table.


Yeah. Why don't you go back to your old user name from 6 years ago?

Posters who would never STFU about Melo, EVER. Calling other posters "trolls". Now Ive heard everything.

How about posters who never STFU about Phil, EVER? Thoughts on those? At least I don't build a web of hypocrisy to hide behind. I hate Melo and what he did to the Knicks - never claimed otherwise.

The only things that trickle down are wages and horse shit
GustavBahler
Posts: 32946
Alba Posts: 15
Joined: 7/12/2010
Member: #3186

11/5/2017  1:39 PM
meloshouldgo wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:Think about it this way - for 6 years Melo apologists and trolls have told us the he holds the ball and doesn't pass because he never had anyone around him worth passing to.
Now that he has two all stars around him with a complement of players that can win it all his assist numbers have been cut from 2.8 per game to 1.9 per game.

Even with a elite team around him, he is a net negative player (BPM = - 0.5) with a VORP of 0.1 - which essentially means his "performance" is exactly equal to the average replacement player. But the trolls will tell you he deserves all of his $25M - being a player of his "stature". I am sure he is playing even worse because of the residual effects of having to play the triangle for half a season last year, yeah that must be it.

That's all you need to know about Queen Melo and the trolls of the round table.


Yeah. Why don't you go back to your old user name from 6 years ago?

Posters who would never STFU about Melo, EVER. Calling other posters "trolls". Now Ive heard everything.

How about posters who never STFU about Phil, EVER? Thoughts on those? At least I don't build a web of hypocrisy to hide behind. I hate Melo and what he did to the Knicks - never claimed otherwise.

One player vs one Exec with all the power, who remade the roster, gave Melo that NTC. whose decisions are still being felt by the team. Big fing difference. I would love to put Phil in the past, if we dont have any more moronic threads about missing the Triangle, not missing Melo etc etc.. Havent see any threads for some time about not missing Phil.

As for you, dont care if you had another handle. You joined this board, gave yourself that username, with the clear intent to troll this board endlessly over Melo (which you have) until he was gone.

Now you are trying to rewrite history. Trying to paper over that you have been since joining under this username, one of the most divisive posters on this board. Not buying what you're selling, never have.

meloshouldgo
Posts: 23980
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11/5/2017  1:43 PM
Knickoftime wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:Think about it this way - for 6 years Melo apologists and trolls have told us the he holds the ball and doesn't pass because he never had anyone around him worth passing to.
Now that he has two all stars around him with a complement of players that can win it all his assist numbers have been cut from 2.8 per game to 1.9 per game.

Even with a elite team around him, he is a net negative player (BPM = - 0.5) with a VORP of 0.1 - which essentially means his "performance" is exactly equal to the average replacement player. But the trolls will tell you he deserves all of his $25M - being a player of his "stature". I am sure he is playing even worse because of the residual effects of having to play the triangle for half a season last year, yeah that must be it.

That's all you need to know about Queen Melo and the trolls of the round table.

He isn't on the Knicks anymore.

So? - I am responding to the question asked about what it would say about Melo if we make it to the playoffs, by pointing out how negatively he impacts the team he is on. The Knicks have changed for the better, he has gotten worse. Watch how the trolls will respond to me - but not one of them will provide a single stat that supports any of the gibberish about his game declining because of the triangle and other nonsense they post. I used BPM and VORP from BKREF anyone can go look them up.

The only things that trickle down are wages and horse shit
CrushAlot
Posts: 55242
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Member: #452
USA
11/5/2017  1:54 PM
meloshouldgo wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:Think about it this way - for 6 years Melo apologists and trolls have told us the he holds the ball and doesn't pass because he never had anyone around him worth passing to.
Now that he has two all stars around him with a complement of players that can win it all his assist numbers have been cut from 2.8 per game to 1.9 per game.

Even with a elite team around him, he is a net negative player (BPM = - 0.5) with a VORP of 0.1 - which essentially means his "performance" is exactly equal to the average replacement player. But the trolls will tell you he deserves all of his $25M - being a player of his "stature". I am sure he is playing even worse because of the residual effects of having to play the triangle for half a season last year, yeah that must be it.

That's all you need to know about Queen Melo and the trolls of the round table.


Yeah. Why don't you go back to your old user name from 6 years ago?

Dude - I don't have an old user name. And I am also keeping the one I have. OK?

Sure. You might want to be more careful when you use terms, names from long before you joined under your current user name.
Is this your thread?
http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=41661&page=1
I think we know what we're doing..... Phil Jackson
meloshouldgo
Posts: 23980
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Member: #5801

11/5/2017  1:54 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:Think about it this way - for 6 years Melo apologists and trolls have told us the he holds the ball and doesn't pass because he never had anyone around him worth passing to.
Now that he has two all stars around him with a complement of players that can win it all his assist numbers have been cut from 2.8 per game to 1.9 per game.

Even with a elite team around him, he is a net negative player (BPM = - 0.5) with a VORP of 0.1 - which essentially means his "performance" is exactly equal to the average replacement player. But the trolls will tell you he deserves all of his $25M - being a player of his "stature". I am sure he is playing even worse because of the residual effects of having to play the triangle for half a season last year, yeah that must be it.

That's all you need to know about Queen Melo and the trolls of the round table.


Yeah. Why don't you go back to your old user name from 6 years ago?

Posters who would never STFU about Melo, EVER. Calling other posters "trolls". Now Ive heard everything.

How about posters who never STFU about Phil, EVER? Thoughts on those? At least I don't build a web of hypocrisy to hide behind. I hate Melo and what he did to the Knicks - never claimed otherwise.

One player vs one Exec with all the power, who remade the roster, gave Melo that NTC. whose decisions are still being felt by the team. Big fing difference. I would love to put Phil in the past, if we dont have any more moronic threads about missing the Triangle, not missing Melo etc etc.. Havent see any threads for some time about not missing Phil.

As for you, dont care if you had another handle. You joined this board, gave yourself that username, with the clear intent to troll this board endlessly over Melo (which you have) until he was gone.

Now you are trying to rewrite history. Trying to paper over that you have been since joining under this username, one of the most divisive posters on this board. Not buying what you're selling, never have.

No idea what you are talking about? What have I papered over and rewritten? I am KNICKS fan and not a Melo fan and I have wanted him gone from day 1. What is there to paper over? I just said it, AGAIN - I HATE MELO. Hasn't changed, won't change EVER.

You can call me divisive all you want, I post what I believe and the way I see it. I don't sugar coat the ****. We were **** for 6 years, glad he is gone.

The only things that trickle down are wages and horse shit
meloshouldgo
Posts: 23980
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Joined: 5/3/2014
Member: #5801

11/5/2017  1:59 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:Think about it this way - for 6 years Melo apologists and trolls have told us the he holds the ball and doesn't pass because he never had anyone around him worth passing to.
Now that he has two all stars around him with a complement of players that can win it all his assist numbers have been cut from 2.8 per game to 1.9 per game.

Even with a elite team around him, he is a net negative player (BPM = - 0.5) with a VORP of 0.1 - which essentially means his "performance" is exactly equal to the average replacement player. But the trolls will tell you he deserves all of his $25M - being a player of his "stature". I am sure he is playing even worse because of the residual effects of having to play the triangle for half a season last year, yeah that must be it.

That's all you need to know about Queen Melo and the trolls of the round table.


Yeah. Why don't you go back to your old user name from 6 years ago?

Dude - I don't have an old user name. And I am also keeping the one I have. OK?

Sure. You might want to be more careful when you use terms, names from long before you joined under your current user name.
Is this your thread?
http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=41661&page=1

Carry on why can't I use "terms" and what do I need to be careful about? Does join date imply some pertinent information about when I started reading this forum or how often I read it? Care to discuss Melo again or do you need to hijack every thread where he gets called out?

The only things that trickle down are wages and horse shit
what it will say about Melo if we go to playoffs ?

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