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what it will say about Melo if we go to playoffs ?
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Gudris
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11/4/2017  6:18 AM
AUTOADVERT
mlby1215
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11/4/2017  6:30 AM
Then media will turn it into Phil's fault. Sure he won 11 champions but who cares? Sure two coaches in final from last few years were his players and learned from him but who cares? NY media will never be wrong. If they are, it is all Dolan's fault.
Bonn1997
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11/4/2017  7:55 AM
mlby1215 wrote:Then media will turn it into Phil's fault. Sure he won 11 champions but who cares?

Certainly not me. I don't care how many rings he brought to other cities as a coach. He gave us KP. That is great. Then he put guys like Melo and Rose on the floor who interfered with KP's development and the team's winning.

Jmpasq
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11/4/2017  8:00 AM
Think about how much better this team is if they keep Rolo, and dont have Noah. Rolo is someone other teams would actually want instead of being stuck with a worthless albatross. That trade really sucked
Check out My NFL Draft Prospect Videos at Youtube User Pages Jmpasq,JPdraftjedi,Jmpasqdraftjedi. www.Draftbreakdown.com
mlby1215
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11/4/2017  8:06 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
mlby1215 wrote:Then media will turn it into Phil's fault. Sure he won 11 champions but who cares?

Certainly not me. I don't care how many rings he brought to other cities as a coach. He gave us KP. That is great. Then he put guys like Melo and Rose on the floor who interfered with KP's development and the team's winning.

And draft picks, cap rooms, Willy, and Frank.

We don't have to worship this dude, and we have to give him credit for what he has done. Look at this way, IF Mills just copies what Phil had done, like draft another KP, Willy and Frank and keep picks and caps, then it would be stunning success.

He was being forced out by political reasons, and he was rejected by media and fans by cultural reasons. The day Mills and Gaines laughed on Melo's training video and people said nothing, I suddenly realized something. If it was Phil and Rambis, it would be another national news. We were not fair, probably we never are.

nyknickzingis
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11/4/2017  8:19 AM
I don't think we can make the playoffs.
KP has never had a fully healthy season and I question if he can have one. He will miss some time, and when he does, we won't win more than 1 or 2 in 10 games. We're a .500 team if KP can keep this up all season, which will make him a MVP at season's end if we make it into the playoffs.

So I think all it says about Melo is that Phil was right, Melo caused a ton of the ball stopping and lack of teamwork issues. However Melo can also be a team player and he would have fit with this current team. What made last year's team truly despicably selfish was the combination of Melo and Rose. Two of them had zero chemistry and they never really looked to pass first.

Welpee
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11/4/2017  8:25 AM
nyknickzingis wrote:I don't think we can make the playoffs.
KP has never had a fully healthy season and I question if he can have one. He will miss some time, and when he does, we won't win more than 1 or 2 in 10 games. We're a .500 team if KP can keep this up all season, which will make him a MVP at season's end if we make it into the playoffs.

So I think all it says about Melo is that Phil was right, Melo caused a ton of the ball stopping and lack of teamwork issues. However Melo can also be a team player and he would have fit with this current team. What made last year's team truly despicably selfish was the combination of Melo and Rose. Two of them had zero chemistry and they never really looked to pass first.

Plus we were forced to run an offense that didn't fit the personnel we had/have.
nykshaknbake
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11/4/2017  8:30 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/4/2017  8:33 AM
mlby1215 wrote:Then media will turn it into Phil's fault. Sure he won 11 champions but who cares? Sure two coaches in final from last few years were his players and learned from him but who cares? NY media will never be wrong. If they are, it is all Dolan's fault.

I forget, who resigned melo to a ridiculous contract and assembled the 'super Team around him? I always though accountability started at the top. I didn't know that past accomplishments for different organizations negated future accountability. Prizingis was a good draft pick but he was projected to go in our range. It wasn't a stroke of genius. The rest of his resume is horrid. When you stink for as long as we did or do the draft should net you a good player. Is it really a miracle to you we got something out if the #4 pick in the draft?

And right now Willy doesn't look awesome and the jury will be out on Frank whether he was worth number 7.

CrushAlot
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11/4/2017  8:40 AM
nykshaknbake wrote:
mlby1215 wrote:Then media will turn it into Phil's fault. Sure he won 11 champions but who cares? Sure two coaches in final from last few years were his players and learned from him but who cares? NY media will never be wrong. If they are, it is all Dolan's fault.

I forget, who resigned melo to a ridiculous contract and assembled the 'super Team around him? I always though accountability started at the top. I didn't know that past accomplishments for different organizations negated future accountability. Prizingis was a good draft pick but he was projected to go in our range. It wasn't a stroke of genius. The rest of his resume is horrid. When you stink for as long as we did or do the draft should net you a good player. Is it really a miracle to you we got something out if the #4 pick in the draft?

And right now Willy doesn't look awesome and the jury will be out on Frank whether he was worth number 7.

this. Also, Phil didn't get the Knicks draft picks. He didn't trade next years pick, the first pick he was allowed to trade.
I think we know what we're doing..... Phil Jackson
Gudris
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11/4/2017  8:47 AM
nyknickzingis wrote:I don't think we can make the playoffs.
KP has never had a fully healthy season and I question if he can have one. He will miss some time, and when he does, we won't win more than 1 or 2 in 10 games. We're a .500 team if KP can keep this up all season, which will make him a MVP at season's end if we make it into the playoffs.

This team is getting better with every game and its only 8 games, i think in second part we can win without KP on a floor

nyknickzingis
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11/4/2017  8:47 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/4/2017  8:48 AM
Welpee wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:I don't think we can make the playoffs.
KP has never had a fully healthy season and I question if he can have one. He will miss some time, and when he does, we won't win more than 1 or 2 in 10 games. We're a .500 team if KP can keep this up all season, which will make him a MVP at season's end if we make it into the playoffs.

So I think all it says about Melo is that Phil was right, Melo caused a ton of the ball stopping and lack of teamwork issues. However Melo can also be a team player and he would have fit with this current team. What made last year's team truly despicably selfish was the combination of Melo and Rose. Two of them had zero chemistry and they never really looked to pass first.

Plus we were forced to run an offense that didn't fit the personnel we had/have.

We still run Some Triangle and lots of post ups. KP's game is much more evolved. We actually now have two great post players. Kanter in the low post. KP in the midrange and midpost. Both know how to play with their back to the basket.

I think it makes a huge difference when you have these changes.

1)KP with a back to the basket midrange and mid post game, Kanter with a low post game.
2)A point guard that looks to pass first like Jack vs Rose who was scoring and not looking to pass.
3)A perimeter player no longer there that isolated and held the ball for long stretches and stalled the offense.

We're a better team with less talent because of those things. KP finally developed some moves closer to the basket and realizes how to shoot over smalls now. Melo isn't holding the ball and stalling the offense. Arguably the biggest difference is Rose. Rose was like a cancer. I liked his scoring, but man, watching how Jack and Frank play is so refreshing.

Ira
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11/4/2017  8:49 AM
When Melo left Denver, they got better. He's an iso player on offense and doesn't do much on d.
Uptown
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11/4/2017  9:18 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/4/2017  9:19 AM
mlby1215 wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
mlby1215 wrote:Then media will turn it into Phil's fault. Sure he won 11 champions but who cares?

Certainly not me. I don't care how many rings he brought to other cities as a coach. He gave us KP. That is great. Then he put guys like Melo and Rose on the floor who interfered with KP's development and the team's winning.

And draft picks, cap rooms, Willy, and Frank.

We don't have to worship this dude, and we have to give him credit for what he has done. Look at this way, IF Mills just copies what Phil had done, like draft another KP, Willy and Frank and keep picks and caps, then it would be stunning success.

He was being forced out by political reasons, and he was rejected by media and fans by cultural reasons. The day Mills and Gaines laughed on Melo's training video and people said nothing, I suddenly realized something. If it was Phil and Rambis, it would be another national news. We were not fair, probably we never are.

BS!!! He was forced out because he did a piss-poor job!

If Mills follows phils blueprint, he will sabotage the team with his own agenda and force his philosophy on the coach despite us being over .500...then he will preach ball movement and then go out and sign a selfish pg to replace Jack. Then Mills will send out cryptic tweets ripping KP for not moving the ball. Charlie Rosen will co-sign with several articles...then in the summer, we will find a center who is on the decline and is battling multiple injuries and sign him to a 5 yr deal that will tie-up our salary cap...And the circus will be back in town

Uptown
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11/4/2017  9:21 AM
Ira wrote:When Melo left Denver, they got better. He's an iso player on offense and doesn't do much on d.

When did Denver advance to the WCF? How many playoffs did the Nuggs make after Melo left? Also, how many times did the Knicks make the Playoffs before phil and after phil arrived?

It was time for Melo to go, but at least be fair with your critique...

Uptown
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11/4/2017  9:21 AM
nykshaknbake wrote:
mlby1215 wrote:Then media will turn it into Phil's fault. Sure he won 11 champions but who cares? Sure two coaches in final from last few years were his players and learned from him but who cares? NY media will never be wrong. If they are, it is all Dolan's fault.

I forget, who resigned melo to a ridiculous contract and assembled the 'super Team around him? I always though accountability started at the top. I didn't know that past accomplishments for different organizations negated future accountability. Prizingis was a good draft pick but he was projected to go in our range. It wasn't a stroke of genius. The rest of his resume is horrid. When you stink for as long as we did or do the draft should net you a good player. Is it really a miracle to you we got something out if the #4 pick in the draft?

And right now Willy doesn't look awesome and the jury will be out on Frank whether he was worth number 7.

+1000

HofstraBBall
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11/4/2017  9:40 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/4/2017  9:46 AM
nyknickzingis wrote:
Welpee wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:I don't think we can make the playoffs.
KP has never had a fully healthy season and I question if he can have one. He will miss some time, and when he does, we won't win more than 1 or 2 in 10 games. We're a .500 team if KP can keep this up all season, which will make him a MVP at season's end if we make it into the playoffs.

So I think all it says about Melo is that Phil was right, Melo caused a ton of the ball stopping and lack of teamwork issues. However Melo can also be a team player and he would have fit with this current team. What made last year's team truly despicably selfish was the combination of Melo and Rose. Two of them had zero chemistry and they never really looked to pass first.

Plus we were forced to run an offense that didn't fit the personnel we had/have.

We still run Some Triangle and lots of post ups. KP's game is much more evolved. We actually now have two great post players. Kanter in the low post. KP in the midrange and midpost. Both know how to play with their back to the basket.

I think it makes a huge difference when you have these changes.

1)KP with a back to the basket midrange and mid post game, Kanter with a low post game.
2)A point guard that looks to pass first like Jack vs Rose who was scoring and not looking to pass.
3)A perimeter player no longer there that isolated and held the ball for long stretches and stalled the offense.

We're a better team with less talent because of those things. KP finally developed some moves closer to the basket and realizes how to shoot over smalls now. Melo isn't holding the ball and stalling the offense. Arguably the biggest difference is Rose. Rose was like a cancer. I liked his scoring, but man, watching how Jack and Frank play is so refreshing.

Interesting points. I brought this up on another thread. First let me start by saying it was best for Knicks to move on from Melo and see if KP can be the franchise player. Also think, all sides involved are better off for doing so. We also picked up a huge difference maker this year in Kanter.

However, some will make it about ONE players short comings as oppose to what is so obvious.

1) NOT ONE PLAYER liked the Triangle. Just look at what all players said about the system. Just look at how methodical everyone looked. The amount of PnR's we are doing, Double high posts and weaves is more in one game than all of last year.
2) Phil created a BAD enviroment. KP didnt go to exit meeting because of it.
3) We had NO guard fascilitator. Rose is making a LBJ team lack luster. Jack has been huge getting everyone involved.
4) We were not as deep. We have a starting center that is averaging ticks short of a double double. We have a 7'3 guy that is playing like a 7'3 star with his post up game. We have Jack who is a point guard that is focused/capable of creating like a PG should. Not a Jose or Sasha or Rose type. If you looked at our second unit of Sasha, Baker, LT (as the best player) and a inconsistent KO, we were not competitive. More like D league.

But okay. Lets look at Melo as the culprit and major reason for our 4-4 start.

Fist complaint- High Usage and does not share the ball. Ok. KP is ranked number 4 in the ENTIRE league in usage! He had 0 assists last night and close to going under 1 per game. So what, No one cares and it did not affect our wins. Oh and did we forget DadMelo? Did that change the losing? Melo lead in assists two out of the three Phil years.

Second. Our defense got better and he ALONE was the cause of our issues. OK. we are allowing 105 points per game. Better than last year but not exactly shutting teams down. While OKC was second before last nights games. And allowing 96.4. Who is on their team now? Oh and BTW Melo ranked 39 in defense so far this year!! Timmy 122!! Is my point that he is a good defender. Absolutely not. But by the rational of guys on here taking numbers into account, he would considered so.

Again, my ONLY point about Melo or any other of our players that get blamed for losing is that its not just ONE GUY that makes or breaks a team. For a team to be as bad as we were, you need a bad coach, bad GM, bad PRez, bad offensive and defensive systems and BAD PLAYERS. Saying its just one guy is just a spoiled FAN's way of blaming someone for the fact he lost his bragging rights at work and cant wear his over sized/over priced jersey anymore. Maybe its just guys that did not learn the "Scapegoat" premise or never actually played sports at any level. Because anyone that has played sports before, knows that it takes a whole team of players to get a win. In basketball it takes a minimum of 10.

My analogy of how unrealistic this is. Lets say Knicks dont make the playoffs this year but KP averages over 30. Do you blame him? Lets say he wins 54 next year, has a MVP type year, we make the playoffs but lose in the conference finals. Do you blame just him? Lets say the team struggles the following year and the FO decide to bring in a Prez to clean house but that Prez puts a bunch of D leaguers around him and we look like ****. Do you blame him? Will you pick on his usage rates and his assists to justify a trade? I wouldn't.

I am glad that Melo has moved on. Glad we are looking good and beating some teams. Glad KP has changed his game and playing more inside the arc. Glad we have guys like Kanter. But to say a TEAMS success is due to changing ONE player and not ALL the things mentioned above?

Melo Haters = Lin lovers who are mad Houston paid so much for his 15 Minutes,
Uptown
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11/4/2017  9:48 AM
HofstraBBall wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:
Welpee wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:I don't think we can make the playoffs.
KP has never had a fully healthy season and I question if he can have one. He will miss some time, and when he does, we won't win more than 1 or 2 in 10 games. We're a .500 team if KP can keep this up all season, which will make him a MVP at season's end if we make it into the playoffs.

So I think all it says about Melo is that Phil was right, Melo caused a ton of the ball stopping and lack of teamwork issues. However Melo can also be a team player and he would have fit with this current team. What made last year's team truly despicably selfish was the combination of Melo and Rose. Two of them had zero chemistry and they never really looked to pass first.

Plus we were forced to run an offense that didn't fit the personnel we had/have.

We still run Some Triangle and lots of post ups. KP's game is much more evolved. We actually now have two great post players. Kanter in the low post. KP in the midrange and midpost. Both know how to play with their back to the basket.

I think it makes a huge difference when you have these changes.

1)KP with a back to the basket midrange and mid post game, Kanter with a low post game.
2)A point guard that looks to pass first like Jack vs Rose who was scoring and not looking to pass.
3)A perimeter player no longer there that isolated and held the ball for long stretches and stalled the offense.

We're a better team with less talent because of those things. KP finally developed some moves closer to the basket and realizes how to shoot over smalls now. Melo isn't holding the ball and stalling the offense. Arguably the biggest difference is Rose. Rose was like a cancer. I liked his scoring, but man, watching how Jack and Frank play is so refreshing.

Interesting points. I brought this up on another thread. First let me start by saying it was best for Knicks to move on from Melo and see if KP can be the franchise player. Also think, all sides involved are better off for doing so. We also picked up a huge difference maker this year in Kanter.

However, some will make it about ONE players short comings as oppose to what is so obvious.

1) NOT ONE PLAYER liked the Triangle. Just look at what all players said about the system. Just look at how methodical everyone looked. The amount of PnR's we are doing, Double high posts and weaves is more in one game than all of last year.
2) Phil created a BAD enviroment. KP didnt go to exit meeting because of it.
3) We had NO guard fascilitator. Rose is making a LBJ team lack luster. Jack has been huge getting everyone involved.
4) We were not as deep. We have a starting center that is averaging ticks short of a double double. We have a 7'3 guy that is playing like a 7'3 star with his post up game. We have Jack who is a point guard that is focused/capable of creating like a PG should. Not a Jose or Sasha or Rose type. If you looked at our second unit of Sasha, Baker, LT (as the best player) and a inconsistent KO, we were not competitive. More like D league.

But okay. Lets look at Melo as the culprit and major reason for our 4-4 start.

Fist complaint- High Usage and does not share the ball. Ok. KP is ranked number 4 in the ENTIRE league in usage! He had 0 assists last night and close to going under 1 per game. So what, No one cares and it did not affect our wins. Oh and did we forget DadMelo? Did that change the losing? Melo lead in assists two out of the three Phil years.

Second. Our defense got better and he ALONE was the cause of our issues. OK. we are allowing 105 points per game. Better than last year but not exactly shutting teams down. While OKC was second before last nights games. And allowing 96.4. Who is on their team now? Oh and BTW Melo ranked 39 in defense so far this year!! Timmy 122!! Is my point that he is a good defender. Absolutely not. But by the rational of guys on here taking numbers into account, he would considered so.

Again, my ONLY point about Melo or any other of our players that get blamed for losing is that its not just ONE GUY that makes or breaks a team. For a team to be as bad as we were, you need a bad coach, bad GM, bad PRez, bad offensive and defensive systems and BAD PLAYERS. Saying its just one guy is just a spoiled FAN's way of blaming someone for the fact he lost his bragging rights at work and cant wear his over sized/over priced jersey anymore. Maybe its just guys that did not learn the "Scapegoat" premise or never actually played sports at any level. Because anyone that has played sports before, knows that it takes a whole team of players to get a win. In basketball it takes a minimum of 10.

My analogy of how unrealistic this is. Lets say Knicks dont make the playoffs this year but KP averages over 30. Do you blame him? Lets say he wins 54 next year, has a MVP type year, we make the playoffs but lose in the conference finals. Do you blame just him? Lets say the team struggles the following year and the FO decide to bring in a Prez to clean house but that Prez puts a bunch of D leaguers around him and we look like ****. Do you blame him? Will you pick on his usage rates and his assists to justify a trade? I wouldn't.

I am glad that Melo has moved on. Glad we are looking good and beating some teams. Glad KP has changed his game and playing more inside the arc. Glad we have guys like Kanter. But to say a TEAMS success is due to changing ONE player and not ALL the things mentioned above?

Great Post!!!!!

Gudris
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11/4/2017  10:32 AM
Uptown wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:
Welpee wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:I don't think we can make the playoffs.
KP has never had a fully healthy season and I question if he can have one. He will miss some time, and when he does, we won't win more than 1 or 2 in 10 games. We're a .500 team if KP can keep this up all season, which will make him a MVP at season's end if we make it into the playoffs.

So I think all it says about Melo is that Phil was right, Melo caused a ton of the ball stopping and lack of teamwork issues. However Melo can also be a team player and he would have fit with this current team. What made last year's team truly despicably selfish was the combination of Melo and Rose. Two of them had zero chemistry and they never really looked to pass first.

Plus we were forced to run an offense that didn't fit the personnel we had/have.

We still run Some Triangle and lots of post ups. KP's game is much more evolved. We actually now have two great post players. Kanter in the low post. KP in the midrange and midpost. Both know how to play with their back to the basket.

I think it makes a huge difference when you have these changes.

1)KP with a back to the basket midrange and mid post game, Kanter with a low post game.
2)A point guard that looks to pass first like Jack vs Rose who was scoring and not looking to pass.
3)A perimeter player no longer there that isolated and held the ball for long stretches and stalled the offense.

We're a better team with less talent because of those things. KP finally developed some moves closer to the basket and realizes how to shoot over smalls now. Melo isn't holding the ball and stalling the offense. Arguably the biggest difference is Rose. Rose was like a cancer. I liked his scoring, but man, watching how Jack and Frank play is so refreshing.

Interesting points. I brought this up on another thread. First let me start by saying it was best for Knicks to move on from Melo and see if KP can be the franchise player. Also think, all sides involved are better off for doing so. We also picked up a huge difference maker this year in Kanter.

However, some will make it about ONE players short comings as oppose to what is so obvious.

1) NOT ONE PLAYER liked the Triangle. Just look at what all players said about the system. Just look at how methodical everyone looked. The amount of PnR's we are doing, Double high posts and weaves is more in one game than all of last year.
2) Phil created a BAD enviroment. KP didnt go to exit meeting because of it.
3) We had NO guard fascilitator. Rose is making a LBJ team lack luster. Jack has been huge getting everyone involved.
4) We were not as deep. We have a starting center that is averaging ticks short of a double double. We have a 7'3 guy that is playing like a 7'3 star with his post up game. We have Jack who is a point guard that is focused/capable of creating like a PG should. Not a Jose or Sasha or Rose type. If you looked at our second unit of Sasha, Baker, LT (as the best player) and a inconsistent KO, we were not competitive. More like D league.

But okay. Lets look at Melo as the culprit and major reason for our 4-4 start.

Fist complaint- High Usage and does not share the ball. Ok. KP is ranked number 4 in the ENTIRE league in usage! He had 0 assists last night and close to going under 1 per game. So what, No one cares and it did not affect our wins. Oh and did we forget DadMelo? Did that change the losing? Melo lead in assists two out of the three Phil years.

Second. Our defense got better and he ALONE was the cause of our issues. OK. we are allowing 105 points per game. Better than last year but not exactly shutting teams down. While OKC was second before last nights games. And allowing 96.4. Who is on their team now? Oh and BTW Melo ranked 39 in defense so far this year!! Timmy 122!! Is my point that he is a good defender. Absolutely not. But by the rational of guys on here taking numbers into account, he would considered so.

Again, my ONLY point about Melo or any other of our players that get blamed for losing is that its not just ONE GUY that makes or breaks a team. For a team to be as bad as we were, you need a bad coach, bad GM, bad PRez, bad offensive and defensive systems and BAD PLAYERS. Saying its just one guy is just a spoiled FAN's way of blaming someone for the fact he lost his bragging rights at work and cant wear his over sized/over priced jersey anymore. Maybe its just guys that did not learn the "Scapegoat" premise or never actually played sports at any level. Because anyone that has played sports before, knows that it takes a whole team of players to get a win. In basketball it takes a minimum of 10.

My analogy of how unrealistic this is. Lets say Knicks dont make the playoffs this year but KP averages over 30. Do you blame him? Lets say he wins 54 next year, has a MVP type year, we make the playoffs but lose in the conference finals. Do you blame just him? Lets say the team struggles the following year and the FO decide to bring in a Prez to clean house but that Prez puts a bunch of D leaguers around him and we look like ****. Do you blame him? Will you pick on his usage rates and his assists to justify a trade? I wouldn't.

I am glad that Melo has moved on. Glad we are looking good and beating some teams. Glad KP has changed his game and playing more inside the arc. Glad we have guys like Kanter. But to say a TEAMS success is due to changing ONE player and not ALL the things mentioned above?

Great Post!!!!!

Dont agree, sometimes one player can poison all teams game and mental aproach, if Melo was a real leader he could win despite all you said above.

fishmike
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11/4/2017  10:34 AM
HofstraBBall wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:
Welpee wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:I don't think we can make the playoffs.
KP has never had a fully healthy season and I question if he can have one. He will miss some time, and when he does, we won't win more than 1 or 2 in 10 games. We're a .500 team if KP can keep this up all season, which will make him a MVP at season's end if we make it into the playoffs.

So I think all it says about Melo is that Phil was right, Melo caused a ton of the ball stopping and lack of teamwork issues. However Melo can also be a team player and he would have fit with this current team. What made last year's team truly despicably selfish was the combination of Melo and Rose. Two of them had zero chemistry and they never really looked to pass first.

Plus we were forced to run an offense that didn't fit the personnel we had/have.

We still run Some Triangle and lots of post ups. KP's game is much more evolved. We actually now have two great post players. Kanter in the low post. KP in the midrange and midpost. Both know how to play with their back to the basket.

I think it makes a huge difference when you have these changes.

1)KP with a back to the basket midrange and mid post game, Kanter with a low post game.
2)A point guard that looks to pass first like Jack vs Rose who was scoring and not looking to pass.
3)A perimeter player no longer there that isolated and held the ball for long stretches and stalled the offense.

We're a better team with less talent because of those things. KP finally developed some moves closer to the basket and realizes how to shoot over smalls now. Melo isn't holding the ball and stalling the offense. Arguably the biggest difference is Rose. Rose was like a cancer. I liked his scoring, but man, watching how Jack and Frank play is so refreshing.

Interesting points. I brought this up on another thread. First let me start by saying it was best for Knicks to move on from Melo and see if KP can be the franchise player. Also think, all sides involved are better off for doing so. We also picked up a huge difference maker this year in Kanter.

However, some will make it about ONE players short comings as oppose to what is so obvious.

1) NOT ONE PLAYER liked the Triangle. Just look at what all players said about the system. Just look at how methodical everyone looked. The amount of PnR's we are doing, Double high posts and weaves is more in one game than all of last year.
2) Phil created a BAD enviroment. KP didnt go to exit meeting because of it.
3) We had NO guard fascilitator. Rose is making a LBJ team lack luster. Jack has been huge getting everyone involved.
4) We were not as deep. We have a starting center that is averaging ticks short of a double double. We have a 7'3 guy that is playing like a 7'3 star with his post up game. We have Jack who is a point guard that is focused/capable of creating like a PG should. Not a Jose or Sasha or Rose type. If you looked at our second unit of Sasha, Baker, LT (as the best player) and a inconsistent KO, we were not competitive. More like D league.

But okay. Lets look at Melo as the culprit and major reason for our 4-4 start.

Fist complaint- High Usage and does not share the ball. Ok. KP is ranked number 4 in the ENTIRE league in usage! He had 0 assists last night and close to going under 1 per game. So what, No one cares and it did not affect our wins. Oh and did we forget DadMelo? Did that change the losing? Melo lead in assists two out of the three Phil years.

Second. Our defense got better and he ALONE was the cause of our issues. OK. we are allowing 105 points per game. Better than last year but not exactly shutting teams down. While OKC was second before last nights games. And allowing 96.4. Who is on their team now? Oh and BTW Melo ranked 39 in defense so far this year!! Timmy 122!! Is my point that he is a good defender. Absolutely not. But by the rational of guys on here taking numbers into account, he would considered so.

Again, my ONLY point about Melo or any other of our players that get blamed for losing is that its not just ONE GUY that makes or breaks a team. For a team to be as bad as we were, you need a bad coach, bad GM, bad PRez, bad offensive and defensive systems and BAD PLAYERS. Saying its just one guy is just a spoiled FAN's way of blaming someone for the fact he lost his bragging rights at work and cant wear his over sized/over priced jersey anymore. Maybe its just guys that did not learn the "Scapegoat" premise or never actually played sports at any level. Because anyone that has played sports before, knows that it takes a whole team of players to get a win. In basketball it takes a minimum of 10.

My analogy of how unrealistic this is. Lets say Knicks dont make the playoffs this year but KP averages over 30. Do you blame him? Lets say he wins 54 next year, has a MVP type year, we make the playoffs but lose in the conference finals. Do you blame just him? Lets say the team struggles the following year and the FO decide to bring in a Prez to clean house but that Prez puts a bunch of D leaguers around him and we look like ****. Do you blame him? Will you pick on his usage rates and his assists to justify a trade? I wouldn't.

I am glad that Melo has moved on. Glad we are looking good and beating some teams. Glad KP has changed his game and playing more inside the arc. Glad we have guys like Kanter. But to say a TEAMS success is due to changing ONE player and not ALL the things mentioned above?

dude.. this is like fake news to distract from one thing. KP gives full effort on both ends. Melo did not play defense and he refused to stop holding the ball. Why does everyone say "now we can focus on defense every night"

Its happening. Youve been to the games. That effort was there last year. Starts with the alpha guy. KP is complaining a bit too much but thats part of NBA politics. He needs to get his calls. But he's flying around on defense giving it 100%. If you cant see that as where everything starts its because you dont want to

fishmike - Making UltimateKnicks great again
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11/4/2017  10:44 AM
Uptown wrote:
Ira wrote:When Melo left Denver, they got better. He's an iso player on offense and doesn't do much on d.

When did Denver advance to the WCF? How many playoffs did the Nuggs make after Melo left? Also, how many times did the Knicks make the Playoffs before phil and after phil arrived?

It was time for Melo to go, but at least be fair with your critique...

Melo didn't win anything without Chauncey Billups. After Billups left (along with Melo) they went into a semi-rebuild with the young pieces from the Knicks.

What I learned from the Melo experiment is that a team cant win with 2 brain dead players (Melo and Rose). Melo can win now because he's surrounded with talent and has Westbrook to run the offence. Rose continues to be brain dead on the Cavs and they are struggling.

Rose is not the answer.
what it will say about Melo if we go to playoffs ?

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