Knickoftime wrote:

Panos wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Panos wrote:

codeunknown wrote:

Panos wrote:All good, but why is a guy 7'3" tall shooting 46%, not great for a big man, and btw, the exact same shooting percentage as Melo who you all claim to be a low efficiency volume scorer.
For comparison, KAT is shooting 10% points higher, and also grabbing 3 more rebounds per game. So let's slow down with the "best in draft class" conclusions.
All said, it's good to see him stepping up as the first option.

He's shooting 48.3%, with a TS% of 57.3%

Edit: Carmelo has never shot a TS% that high for a season.

I don't know where you got your number, but nba,com says his FG% is 46.8.

And his efg% is 66th in the league.

Do you really need stats to see what kind of player KP is now? KAT is probably getting more dunks. KP is getting most of his from Mid Range and 3pt Range!

http://nbasavant.com/player.php?player_id=204001
http://nbasavant.com/player.php?player_id=1626157

Yeah, and?
KP is 7'3". He should be getting high percentage shots.

He's 22, he's not an interior player and he won't be a finished product for several years.

Want his fg% to go up? Give it time. It'll be very clear when he's maxed out his abilities.

That certainly isn't now.

What I see early on is that KP is 100% a PF and not a center, that he can continue to be a great rim protector and he's got potential to have the best midrange game in the history of the league. I mean nobody can challenge that 12-15 foot turnaround jumper. What do you do when KP is hitting that shot at 60%? And he's getting calls?

KP wants to be the best. I think after two years in the league he's sniffing the potential is there. If I was just stronger, if I could just own this shot or that shot. I think it will come. I also think as it does this team will win a bunch of games. With Frank's defense off the bench (couldnt count on that), emergence of Jack as a stable PG who gets guys the ball (couldnt have seen that) and the duo of KOQ and Kanter up front simply being awesome (this was possible but hard to count on). Point is Knicks have some things that appear sustainable so long as we are healthy:
Good defense and role players going 100% on D (Frank, McD, KOQ, Dotson)
Bruising front line
Featured scorer who gets you buckets all game

Right now the only thing I see derailing this is KP's health, and thats a legit question mark. Is this sustainable? I like that he's been around 32 mins and not 38. That makes a diff. With our depth I would like to see KP at 30 minutes.

Sure does look like a nice step forward for this whole roster and coaching staff. Assign blame or credit till your hearts content. I am very into this team for simple basic lovely things.
Star player is 2-way and gives max effort. Check
Ball being moved and shared. Check
5Guys are going full speed on defense. Check
Coach has pulled/benched guys for not defending. Check

Ive dreamed about this for a few years. I can be patient with everything else.

Panos wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

Panos wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Panos wrote:

codeunknown wrote:

Panos wrote:All good, but why is a guy 7'3" tall shooting 46%, not great for a big man, and btw, the exact same shooting percentage as Melo who you all claim to be a low efficiency volume scorer.
For comparison, KAT is shooting 10% points higher, and also grabbing 3 more rebounds per game. So let's slow down with the "best in draft class" conclusions.
All said, it's good to see him stepping up as the first option.

He's shooting 48.3%, with a TS% of 57.3%

Edit: Carmelo has never shot a TS% that high for a season.

I don't know where you got your number, but nba,com says his FG% is 46.8.

And his efg% is 66th in the league.

Do you really need stats to see what kind of player KP is now? KAT is probably getting more dunks. KP is getting most of his from Mid Range and 3pt Range!

http://nbasavant.com/player.php?player_id=204001
http://nbasavant.com/player.php?player_id=1626157

Yeah, and?
KP is 7'3". He should be getting high percentage shots.

He's 22, he's not an interior player and he won't be a finished product for several years.

Want his fg% to go up? Give it time. It'll be very clear when he's maxed out his abilities.

That certainly isn't now.

I think this is about right. Yes.. at 7'3 he should be getting high % shots. He's clearly the #1 option right now and the guys around him seem to enjoy playing with him playing that role. He seems to only hold the ball and work 1-1 in the last 7-8 seconds of the clock when whatever plays have not worked. I am going to start watching his passing a bit more. We are just seeing what this team looks like with KP as the featured scorer and the early data is promising. Panos I agree.. his basic FG #s should be better. Do you doubt they will be? Look at his EFF% and TS% numbers year by year.. the upward trend is undeniable.

What I see early on is that KP is 100% a PF and not a center, that he can continue to be a great rim protector and he's got potential to have the best midrange game in the history of the league. I mean nobody can challenge that 12-15 foot turnaround jumper. What do you do when KP is hitting that shot at 60%? And he's getting calls?

KP wants to be the best. I think after two years in the league he's sniffing the potential is there. If I was just stronger, if I could just own this shot or that shot. I think it will come. I also think as it does this team will win a bunch of games. With Frank's defense off the bench (couldnt count on that), emergence of Jack as a stable PG who gets guys the ball (couldnt have seen that) and the duo of KOQ and Kanter up front simply being awesome (this was possible but hard to count on). Point is Knicks have some things that appear sustainable so long as we are healthy:
Good defense and role players going 100% on D (Frank, McD, KOQ, Dotson)
Bruising front line
Featured scorer who gets you buckets all game

Right now the only thing I see derailing this is KP's health, and thats a legit question mark. Is this sustainable? I like that he's been around 32 mins and not 38. That makes a diff. With our depth I would like to see KP at 30 minutes.

Sure does look like a nice step forward for this whole roster and coaching staff. Assign blame or credit till your hearts content. I am very into this team for simple basic lovely things.
Star player is 2-way and gives max effort. Check
Ball being moved and shared. Check
5Guys are going full speed on defense. Check
Coach has pulled/benched guys for not defending. Check

Ive dreamed about this for a few years. I can be patient with everything else.

Fish, I'm not going to disagree with any of this. As usual, you're a voice of reason in a crowd of hyperbole. Muy only point is, let's not just yet get carried away anointing KP MVP or even best in his draft class until he can be more efficient. We crucified Melo for inefficient shooting and lack of passing, and Melo had the same % and more assists. I'm not trashing KP, by any means. Just keeping it real. I think if not saddled with Noah's stupid contract, this team would be on the cusp of being a solid playoff team.

There are LOTS of bigs that are more EFFICIENT but less impactful. Guys you can’t really build an offense around as versatile as KP. There’s more to it than raw efficiency. What KP is doing is Franchise player stuff. Heck a guy can get dunks and look impressive in terms of efficiency but be useless in a Playoff series against good defensive teams that shutdown easy dunks.

nixluva wrote:

Panos wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

Panos wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Panos wrote:

codeunknown wrote:

Panos wrote:All good, but why is a guy 7'3" tall shooting 46%, not great for a big man, and btw, the exact same shooting percentage as Melo who you all claim to be a low efficiency volume scorer.
For comparison, KAT is shooting 10% points higher, and also grabbing 3 more rebounds per game. So let's slow down with the "best in draft class" conclusions.
All said, it's good to see him stepping up as the first option.

He's shooting 48.3%, with a TS% of 57.3%

Edit: Carmelo has never shot a TS% that high for a season.

I don't know where you got your number, but nba,com says his FG% is 46.8.

And his efg% is 66th in the league.

Do you really need stats to see what kind of player KP is now? KAT is probably getting more dunks. KP is getting most of his from Mid Range and 3pt Range!

http://nbasavant.com/player.php?player_id=204001
http://nbasavant.com/player.php?player_id=1626157

Yeah, and?
KP is 7'3". He should be getting high percentage shots.

He's 22, he's not an interior player and he won't be a finished product for several years.

Want his fg% to go up? Give it time. It'll be very clear when he's maxed out his abilities.

That certainly isn't now.

I think this is about right. Yes.. at 7'3 he should be getting high % shots. He's clearly the #1 option right now and the guys around him seem to enjoy playing with him playing that role. He seems to only hold the ball and work 1-1 in the last 7-8 seconds of the clock when whatever plays have not worked. I am going to start watching his passing a bit more. We are just seeing what this team looks like with KP as the featured scorer and the early data is promising. Panos I agree.. his basic FG #s should be better. Do you doubt they will be? Look at his EFF% and TS% numbers year by year.. the upward trend is undeniable.

What I see early on is that KP is 100% a PF and not a center, that he can continue to be a great rim protector and he's got potential to have the best midrange game in the history of the league. I mean nobody can challenge that 12-15 foot turnaround jumper. What do you do when KP is hitting that shot at 60%? And he's getting calls?

KP wants to be the best. I think after two years in the league he's sniffing the potential is there. If I was just stronger, if I could just own this shot or that shot. I think it will come. I also think as it does this team will win a bunch of games. With Frank's defense off the bench (couldnt count on that), emergence of Jack as a stable PG who gets guys the ball (couldnt have seen that) and the duo of KOQ and Kanter up front simply being awesome (this was possible but hard to count on). Point is Knicks have some things that appear sustainable so long as we are healthy:
Good defense and role players going 100% on D (Frank, McD, KOQ, Dotson)
Bruising front line
Featured scorer who gets you buckets all game

Right now the only thing I see derailing this is KP's health, and thats a legit question mark. Is this sustainable? I like that he's been around 32 mins and not 38. That makes a diff. With our depth I would like to see KP at 30 minutes.

Sure does look like a nice step forward for this whole roster and coaching staff. Assign blame or credit till your hearts content. I am very into this team for simple basic lovely things.
Star player is 2-way and gives max effort. Check
Ball being moved and shared. Check
5Guys are going full speed on defense. Check
Coach has pulled/benched guys for not defending. Check

Ive dreamed about this for a few years. I can be patient with everything else.

Fish, I'm not going to disagree with any of this. As usual, you're a voice of reason in a crowd of hyperbole. Muy only point is, let's not just yet get carried away anointing KP MVP or even best in his draft class until he can be more efficient. We crucified Melo for inefficient shooting and lack of passing, and Melo had the same % and more assists. I'm not trashing KP, by any means. Just keeping it real. I think if not saddled with Noah's stupid contract, this team would be on the cusp of being a solid playoff team.

There are LOTS of bigs that are more EFFICIENT but less impactful. Guys you can’t really build an offense around as versatile as KP. There’s more to it than raw efficiency. What KP is doing is Franchise player stuff. Heck a guy can get dunks and look impressive in terms of efficiency but be useless in a Playoff series against good defensive teams that shutdown easy dunks.

Correct. Margins over the opponent are more important, and that means looking at volume of production at the efficiency rate, as well as the context of that efficiency - including but not relegated to 1) primary creation vs secondary recipience , 2) availability of those efficient shots against a spectrum of opponents.

With that in mind, raw efficiency should be compared amongst players with similar roles and teammates. So although I agree with Panos that improving efficiency and passing continue to be important goals for KP, I think TS% global rank is misleading of his work so far, and the Carmelo comparison actually detracts from his point, given KP’s superior numbers by game 8 of year 3.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/maxwellogden/status/927171886060068869

Panos wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

Panos wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Panos wrote:

codeunknown wrote:

Panos wrote:All good, but why is a guy 7'3" tall shooting 46%, not great for a big man, and btw, the exact same shooting percentage as Melo who you all claim to be a low efficiency volume scorer.
For comparison, KAT is shooting 10% points higher, and also grabbing 3 more rebounds per game. So let's slow down with the "best in draft class" conclusions.
All said, it's good to see him stepping up as the first option.

He's shooting 48.3%, with a TS% of 57.3%

Edit: Carmelo has never shot a TS% that high for a season.

I don't know where you got your number, but nba,com says his FG% is 46.8.

And his efg% is 66th in the league.

Do you really need stats to see what kind of player KP is now? KAT is probably getting more dunks. KP is getting most of his from Mid Range and 3pt Range!

http://nbasavant.com/player.php?player_id=204001
http://nbasavant.com/player.php?player_id=1626157

Yeah, and?
KP is 7'3". He should be getting high percentage shots.

He's 22, he's not an interior player and he won't be a finished product for several years.

Want his fg% to go up? Give it time. It'll be very clear when he's maxed out his abilities.

That certainly isn't now.

I think this is about right. Yes.. at 7'3 he should be getting high % shots. He's clearly the #1 option right now and the guys around him seem to enjoy playing with him playing that role. He seems to only hold the ball and work 1-1 in the last 7-8 seconds of the clock when whatever plays have not worked. I am going to start watching his passing a bit more. We are just seeing what this team looks like with KP as the featured scorer and the early data is promising. Panos I agree.. his basic FG #s should be better. Do you doubt they will be? Look at his EFF% and TS% numbers year by year.. the upward trend is undeniable.

What I see early on is that KP is 100% a PF and not a center, that he can continue to be a great rim protector and he's got potential to have the best midrange game in the history of the league. I mean nobody can challenge that 12-15 foot turnaround jumper. What do you do when KP is hitting that shot at 60%? And he's getting calls?

KP wants to be the best. I think after two years in the league he's sniffing the potential is there. If I was just stronger, if I could just own this shot or that shot. I think it will come. I also think as it does this team will win a bunch of games. With Frank's defense off the bench (couldnt count on that), emergence of Jack as a stable PG who gets guys the ball (couldnt have seen that) and the duo of KOQ and Kanter up front simply being awesome (this was possible but hard to count on). Point is Knicks have some things that appear sustainable so long as we are healthy:
Good defense and role players going 100% on D (Frank, McD, KOQ, Dotson)
Bruising front line
Featured scorer who gets you buckets all game

Right now the only thing I see derailing this is KP's health, and thats a legit question mark. Is this sustainable? I like that he's been around 32 mins and not 38. That makes a diff. With our depth I would like to see KP at 30 minutes.

Sure does look like a nice step forward for this whole roster and coaching staff. Assign blame or credit till your hearts content. I am very into this team for simple basic lovely things.
Star player is 2-way and gives max effort. Check
Ball being moved and shared. Check
5Guys are going full speed on defense. Check
Coach has pulled/benched guys for not defending. Check

Ive dreamed about this for a few years. I can be patient with everything else.

Fish, I'm not going to disagree with any of this. As usual, you're a voice of reason in a crowd of hyperbole. Muy only point is, let's not just yet get carried away anointing KP MVP or even best in his draft class until he can be more efficient. We crucified Melo for inefficient shooting and lack of passing, and Melo had the same % and more assists. I'm not trashing KP, by any means. Just keeping it real. I think if not saddled with Noah's stupid contract, this team would be on the cusp of being a solid playoff team.