Bonn1997 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Out of sight out of mind?
People forget how good this guy can be.
This guy has advanced footwork palms the ball like a grapefruit has a nice touch that seems to be extended--you put this guy next to KP right now at 20-21 years old--its a talent league and he has a higher talent level than anyone we have at C--especially given that Kanter costs 17mm.

Here is OK4 eating up KNicks big men last year for 28 people are not thinking this was going to be the first player taken in the draft for most of the year in a good draft.

People are comparing him to Eddy Curry and Greg Monroe. Maybe you're forgetting how good those guys could have been. I'm sure there are outstanding highlight films of those players.

Greg Monroe has been a good rotation player these past three years. The only problem with Monroe is his price tag. His efficiency, BPM, and Vorp has been good for most of his career. Greg Monore is very similar to O'quinn but without the rim protection.

Back to Jahlil:

There is zero reason to trade for Okafor.

BRIGGS wrote:He's physically stronger than Kanter at 6-11 265. There is a reason why Danny Ainge wants him. I know full well it doesn't break up the middle log jam although it would balance the 15 man roster without the need to cut anyone. From there it opens up the possibility of a bigger trade using Kanter for a sf and other pieces( maybe Bledsoe and Derrick jones for kanter)

There are only a few players in the NBA who are worse defenders than Enes Kanter in the pivot. Maybe so few you could count them on one hand. You managed to find one of maybe a handful of pivots actually WORSE than Kanter on defense.

Okafor

- Is a gigantic @sshole. His team mates hate him. His coaches hate him. His front office hates him. Many of his local fans hate him. He's a massive character risk

- He's lazy and just doesn't give a ****. The dude just does not care. We are talking Eddy Curry/Andrew Bynum/Erick Dampier/Andres Biedriens/Greg Ostertag/Bargs level "I just don't give a ****, but let me keep cashing checks"

- Is a zero on defense. I mean zero. Zero defensive IQ. Zero in close contact. Zero for rebounding. Zero on the pick and roll. Zero for team defense. Zero as a help defender. Zero at defending the rim. Zero. Zero. Zero.

- Can't space the floor offensively. Has an elite back to the basket tool set, but is a player who hurts your team just by being on the floor.

- Crappy passer. ( A byproduct of don't care/don't try/screw you/f**k you, give me another check, because he was actually competent at it in college)

- You would be trading away Zinger's best friend on the roster to bring in a guy who is a lockerroom and media distraction, a sulker and lazy with a bad attitude who will cry to the press openly. Who will also chew up minutes from both Zinger and Kanter. Because, yes, the Knick need yet ANOTHER pivot who can't defend the rim, can't play defense and clogs the floor spacing.

So try a young guy who is still developing an an excellent team friendly contract, with more controllable years, to generate the ill will of your new franchise player, to take in an @sshole that the team would have to likely overpay at some point, to be a long term @sshole on the roster.

Why is Okafor NOT getting minutes in Philly. And don't say a logjam of talent there. He's not getting minutes because he's a very limited player who doesn't give a **** and who is locker room poison and a gigantic steaming @sshole to boot.

Ainge wants him if he's close to free for cost. As a flier. No one is giving up real assets for him because Philly has tried to trade him a long time, and NO ONE ELSE WANTS HIM.

Okafor has an interesting low post tool set. Not production, but a raw TOOL SET. His footwork is pretty good when his back is to the basket. All his other fundamentals though are completely shot. Which is why NO ONE ELSE WANTS HIM EXCEPT FOR NEARLY FREE AND NO ONE ELSE WANTS TO TRADE FOR HIM, EXCEPT FOR NEARLY FREE.

How can someone watch as much basketball as you do, and have no actual conception of fundamental concepts like rim protection, floor spacing, sunk costs, opportunity costs, cost control, positional value, and on and on and on.

TripleThreat wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:He's physically stronger than Kanter at 6-11 265. There is a reason why Danny Ainge wants him. I know full well it doesn't break up the middle log jam although it would balance the 15 man roster without the need to cut anyone. From there it opens up the possibility of a bigger trade using Kanter for a sf and other pieces( maybe Bledsoe and Derrick jones for kanter)

There are only a few players in the NBA who are worse defenders than Enes Kanter in the pivot. Maybe so few you could count them on one hand. You managed to find one of maybe a handful of pivots actually WORSE than Kanter on defense.

Okafor

- Is a gigantic @sshole. His team mates hate him. His coaches hate him. His front office hates him. Many of his local fans hate him. He's a massive character risk

- He's lazy and just doesn't give a ****. The dude just does not care. We are talking Eddy Curry/Andrew Bynum/Erick Dampier/Andres Biedriens/Greg Ostertag/Bargs level "I just don't give a ****, but let me keep cashing checks"

- Is a zero on defense. I mean zero. Zero defensive IQ. Zero in close contact. Zero for rebounding. Zero on the pick and roll. Zero for team defense. Zero as a help defender. Zero at defending the rim. Zero. Zero. Zero.

- Can't space the floor offensively. Has an elite back to the basket tool set, but is a player who hurts your team just by being on the floor.

- Crappy passer. ( A byproduct of don't care/don't try/screw you/f**k you, give me another check, because he was actually competent at it in college)

- You would be trading away Zinger's best friend on the roster to bring in a guy who is a lockerroom and media distraction, a sulker and lazy with a bad attitude who will cry to the press openly. Who will also chew up minutes from both Zinger and Kanter. Because, yes, the Knick need yet ANOTHER pivot who can't defend the rim, can't play defense and clogs the floor spacing.

So try a young guy who is still developing an an excellent team friendly contract, with more controllable years, to generate the ill will of your new franchise player, to take in an @sshole that the team would have to likely overpay at some point, to be a long term @sshole on the roster.

Why is Okafor NOT getting minutes in Philly. And don't say a logjam of talent there. He's not getting minutes because he's a very limited player who doesn't give a **** and who is locker room poison and a gigantic steaming @sshole to boot.

Ainge wants him if he's close to free for cost. As a flier. No one is giving up real assets for him because Philly has tried to trade him a long time, and NO ONE ELSE WANTS HIM.

Okafor has an interesting low post tool set. Not production, but a raw TOOL SET. His footwork is pretty good when his back is to the basket. All his other fundamentals though are completely shot. Which is why NO ONE ELSE WANTS HIM EXCEPT FOR NEARLY FREE AND NO ONE ELSE WANTS TO TRADE FOR HIM, EXCEPT FOR NEARLY FREE.

How can someone watch as much basketball as you do, and have no actual conception of fundamental concepts like rim protection, floor spacing, sunk costs, opportunity costs, cost control, positional value, and on and on and on.

Insane--youre talking definitely about a 21 year old kid? Didnt you say the same about Deangelo Russell? Im sorry but you dont weigh in on a 21 yo like that. Tom Heinson said yesterday that the Celtics really like Okafor and that they were trying hard to acquire him. Youre talking smartest GM and coach in the league. Put a good kid in a good position to succeed---it wasnt that way in Philly. If the Cs get Okafor its game over for the EC for a LONG time

TripleThreat wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Insane--youre talking definitely about a 21 year old kid? Didnt you say the same about Deangelo Russell? Im sorry but you dont weigh in on a 21 yo like that. Tom Heinson said yesterday that the Celtics really like Okafor and that they were trying hard to acquire him. Youre talking smartest GM and coach in the league. Put a good kid in a good position to succeed---it wasnt that way in Philly. If the Cs get Okafor its game over for the EC for a LONG time

1) If a player is available, he's AVAILABLE FOR A REASON

2) If a player is available, FOR A LONG TIME, and is still stuck on his current team who is trying to dump him, it means NO ONE WANTS HIM, and YES, HE'S AVAILABLE FOR A REASON

Will Ainge take a flier on him. Why not. What do you have to lose. AT LOW TO NO COST. Hernangomez in a trade is not low to no cost. It's paying for a player that is likely to get cut anyway. Okafor is attacking Philly in the press for the express reason that A) He's an @sshole, which is par for him and B) He's trying to leverage them to cut him and set him free.

If you said, give Okafor a chance as a cheap street free agent with low to no commitment. Sure, that makes some sense. Or sign him in the offseason to a low to no commitment deal, sure that makes sense. But to give up assets for a player with this many red flags, to only incite the current franchise player, and not to mention -----

WHERE ARE THE MINUTES GOING TO MAGICALLY APPEAR FOR OKAFOR? He wants out of Philly to play. Zinger is going nowhere. Kanter is untradeable. Noah is untradeable. Where are the minutes for him going to come from and who is going to lose minutes for a guy who can't play defense, is lazy, has a skill set that is non compatible with the modern game itself and, yet I say it again and again, is a gigantic @sshole.

Let's say the Knick make this magical trade you suggest, and Okafor, despite all freaking odds, magically has a great season. So what are your options then? Resign him for big money? You mean to add to Zinger, Noah, Kanter? (Because none of those three are going anywhere. One is a franchise player, the other two have craptastic contracts) To reup a guy angry about not getting minutes in a situation where HE'S NOT GOING TO GET MINUTES?

He's young and he had a good game against the Knicks, a bottom feeding gutted Eastern team last season. That's it, that's all you have.

This "because I said so" happy horse**** you pull, where you don't look at the actual market conditions and only hear the parts you want to hear, is pretty common place in two groups. Women and children. Are you really going to grind it down to that Briggs? Being on par with an illogical warm wet hole and/or a runny nose while gripping a handful of Legos?

Im just using this basic logic. Player was the number 1 pick for most of the year in what was supposed to be a really good draft. Player had a very good rookie year at 19 putting up 17-7. Negatives--he is so F young he is?WAS not mature yet. He is not as good as Embiid(and Embiid at full strength may be the best player in the nBA one day) and Richaun Holmes is a much better fitted back up. Hes getting Noeled too. Im not privvy to know if he is a drug addict alcoholic etc.. any of those things that could drastically alter a view--I do not know his character. But would I essentially trade a 2nd round pick for a 3 pick? YES.

TripleThreat wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:He's physically stronger than Kanter at 6-11 265. There is a reason why Danny Ainge wants him. I know full well it doesn't break up the middle log jam although it would balance the 15 man roster without the need to cut anyone. From there it opens up the possibility of a bigger trade using Kanter for a sf and other pieces( maybe Bledsoe and Derrick jones for kanter)

There are only a few players in the NBA who are worse defenders than Enes Kanter in the pivot. Maybe so few you could count them on one hand. You managed to find one of maybe a handful of pivots actually WORSE than Kanter on defense.

Okafor

- Is a gigantic @sshole. His team mates hate him. His coaches hate him. His front office hates him. Many of his local fans hate him. He's a massive character risk

- He's lazy and just doesn't give a ****. The dude just does not care. We are talking Eddy Curry/Andrew Bynum/Erick Dampier/Andres Biedriens/Greg Ostertag/Bargs level "I just don't give a ****, but let me keep cashing checks"

- Is a zero on defense. I mean zero. Zero defensive IQ. Zero in close contact. Zero for rebounding. Zero on the pick and roll. Zero for team defense. Zero as a help defender. Zero at defending the rim. Zero. Zero. Zero.

- Can't space the floor offensively. Has an elite back to the basket tool set, but is a player who hurts your team just by being on the floor.

- Crappy passer. ( A byproduct of don't care/don't try/screw you/f**k you, give me another check, because he was actually competent at it in college)

- You would be trading away Zinger's best friend on the roster to bring in a guy who is a lockerroom and media distraction, a sulker and lazy with a bad attitude who will cry to the press openly. Who will also chew up minutes from both Zinger and Kanter. Because, yes, the Knick need yet ANOTHER pivot who can't defend the rim, can't play defense and clogs the floor spacing.

So try a young guy who is still developing an an excellent team friendly contract, with more controllable years, to generate the ill will of your new franchise player, to take in an @sshole that the team would have to likely overpay at some point, to be a long term @sshole on the roster.

Why is Okafor NOT getting minutes in Philly. And don't say a logjam of talent there. He's not getting minutes because he's a very limited player who doesn't give a **** and who is locker room poison and a gigantic steaming @sshole to boot.

Ainge wants him if he's close to free for cost. As a flier. No one is giving up real assets for him because Philly has tried to trade him a long time, and NO ONE ELSE WANTS HIM.

Okafor has an interesting low post tool set. Not production, but a raw TOOL SET. His footwork is pretty good when his back is to the basket. All his other fundamentals though are completely shot. Which is why NO ONE ELSE WANTS HIM EXCEPT FOR NEARLY FREE AND NO ONE ELSE WANTS TO TRADE FOR HIM, EXCEPT FOR NEARLY FREE.

How can someone watch as much basketball as you do, and have no actual conception of fundamental concepts like rim protection, floor spacing, sunk costs, opportunity costs, cost control, positional value, and on and on and on.

He can be effective in a backup role but unless we got him on a very team friendly deal why bother. Im certainly not trading Willy for him. Anytime you have a rotation player on Willys contract it is a huge win. We would be a lot better without Noahs stupid contract.

BRIGGS wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Insane--youre talking definitely about a 21 year old kid? Didnt you say the same about Deangelo Russell? Im sorry but you dont weigh in on a 21 yo like that. Tom Heinson said yesterday that the Celtics really like Okafor and that they were trying hard to acquire him. Youre talking smartest GM and coach in the league. Put a good kid in a good position to succeed---it wasnt that way in Philly. If the Cs get Okafor its game over for the EC for a LONG time

1) If a player is available, he's AVAILABLE FOR A REASON

2) If a player is available, FOR A LONG TIME, and is still stuck on his current team who is trying to dump him, it means NO ONE WANTS HIM, and YES, HE'S AVAILABLE FOR A REASON

Will Ainge take a flier on him. Why not. What do you have to lose. AT LOW TO NO COST. Hernangomez in a trade is not low to no cost. It's paying for a player that is likely to get cut anyway. Okafor is attacking Philly in the press for the express reason that A) He's an @sshole, which is par for him and B) He's trying to leverage them to cut him and set him free.

If you said, give Okafor a chance as a cheap street free agent with low to no commitment. Sure, that makes some sense. Or sign him in the offseason to a low to no commitment deal, sure that makes sense. But to give up assets for a player with this many red flags, to only incite the current franchise player, and not to mention -----

WHERE ARE THE MINUTES GOING TO MAGICALLY APPEAR FOR OKAFOR? He wants out of Philly to play. Zinger is going nowhere. Kanter is untradeable. Noah is untradeable. Where are the minutes for him going to come from and who is going to lose minutes for a guy who can't play defense, is lazy, has a skill set that is non compatible with the modern game itself and, yet I say it again and again, is a gigantic @sshole.

Let's say the Knick make this magical trade you suggest, and Okafor, despite all freaking odds, magically has a great season. So what are your options then? Resign him for big money? You mean to add to Zinger, Noah, Kanter? (Because none of those three are going anywhere. One is a franchise player, the other two have craptastic contracts) To reup a guy angry about not getting minutes in a situation where HE'S NOT GOING TO GET MINUTES?

He's young and he had a good game against the Knicks, a bottom feeding gutted Eastern team last season. That's it, that's all you have.

This "because I said so" happy horse**** you pull, where you don't look at the actual market conditions and only hear the parts you want to hear, is pretty common place in two groups. Women and children. Are you really going to grind it down to that Briggs? Being on par with an illogical warm wet hole and/or a runny nose while gripping a handful of Legos?

Im just using this basic logic. Player was the number 1 pick for most of the year in what was supposed to be a really good draft. Player had a very good rookie year at 19 putting up 17-7. Negatives--he is so F young he is?WAS not mature yet. He is not as good as Embiid(and Embiid at full strength may be the best player in the nBA one day) and Richaun Holmes is a much better fitted back up. Hes getting Noeled too. Im not privvy to know if he is a drug addict alcoholic etc.. any of those things that could drastically alter a view--I do not know his character. But would I essentially trade a 2nd round pick for a 3 pick? YES.

fishmike wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

martin wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:saw reports yesterday that philly is looking into buying out okafor, because they can't trade him. why trade 2 good chips for a guy we can pick up off the street?

wtf is going on around here this morning?

Wow. The basketball gods did smile on us 2 years ago. 4th pick and got the unicorn.

Pick #2 was traded for cap relief, #3 may be bought out, and #5 is dead weight

Quick, someone delete those "the case for drafting" threads to save our reputations!

na man its good to be wrong. Makes for great chatter. I liked OK4 OVER KAT. How did that work out? I loved OK4 after the draft. He has not been a good NBA player and the concerns about him at this level have all been exposed. Post scoring is simply not as important as protecting the rim. OK4 simply doesnt make us better.

Takes guts to fess up

Now if only Janis would follow your lead and say “you’re right the situation could have been handled better. We were all immensely frustrated and it would not be good to have a constructive talk w mgmt in that state”