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knicks1248
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11/1/2017  2:15 PM
Swishfm3 wrote:
jrodmc wrote:
stanleybostitch wrote:
jrodmc wrote:Wow, we have better players, and we play better. Imagine that.

THJr hits shots.
Kanter hits shots.
Frickin Jarret Jack is hitting shots.
KP playing out of his mind. With 5 whole assists in 6 games.

Right, must be all about Melo being gone. SMH.

Melo and Rose stunted KP's development, without those two ball hogs around he is flourishing.

Riiiiiiiiiight, and KP set all those records his rookie year because he was being stunted? I suppose Melo helped caused KP's injuries too, right?
Melo kept KP from working out like he did this past off season, right?
Melo kept KP from being older than 22 before this season, right?

Give it a break.

Why do you bother?

We have one poster that just said that Melo is the third option out west, which if you have watched any OKC games so far, is not true..
Another poster said that Melo is holding the ball 5-7 seconds at OKC, also not true (would know that if you watch the games)..
AND ANOTHER that just posted that Melo's presence has stunted KP's growth in NY EVEN THOUGH KP's stats have gone up every year while in the league....playing with Melo.

They have to blame everything on Melo. Its the only way they can justify everything that has gone wrong with this organization the last few years.

it's soo pathetic

ES
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Uptown
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11/1/2017  2:18 PM
SupremeCommander wrote:
Uptown wrote:For the first time in yrs, no one in the organization has an agenda!
We finally have a GM and Prez that atcually prefer to be the GM and Prez and not the coach!
The Coach is being allowed to coach as he see's fit and doesn't have to look over his shoulder..
There's less confusion this yr and the players all seem to be on the same page.
Complete player buy in
No more pissing matches between star player and prez...
We are functioning like an actual stable organization for a change...

I'll echo this to a certain extent... I think there's a lot of credit to go around, but I'll focus on Mills. For a lot of years I thought that he was a Dolan yes man and thought that he'd very likely fail in the position

I think what we've all been impressed with is the team's energy, resiliency, and togetherness of a young roster. I for one think that an organization flows from the top down. As Dolan hates the spotlight and has largely removed himself from the day-to-day, if I had to give only one guy credit it would be Mills

Agreed...I'll even give Dolan some credit....He has tried, the problem is he has put his trust in the wrong basketball people (see Isiah and phil)...As you have said, he stays out of the spotlight and presumably out of the way; as much as an owner can stay out of the way, and has also given the people he hired space to do what they are paid to do..

WaltLongmire
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11/1/2017  2:19 PM
stanleybostitch wrote:
jrodmc wrote:Wow, we have better players, and we play better. Imagine that.

THJr hits shots.
Kanter hits shots.
Frickin Jarret Jack is hitting shots.
KP playing out of his mind. With 5 whole assists in 6 games.

Right, must be all about Melo being gone. SMH.

Melo and Rose stunted KP's development, without those two ball hogs around he is flourishing.


The ball movement we have now was not visible last year...not much more you can say. Rose did not move that much without the ball...Melo rarely did.

You want a team where each player believes that if they hustle and get into position to score, they will get the ball. Not saying that we are perfect, but I see more guys moving a cutting with the expectation that they might get the ball and do something with it.

Last 3 games, and the first half against Detroit were entertaining, and we got to see a lot of players step up on the offensive end and put in some extra hustle on D.

I will say that over the last two seasons we've also had moments early in the season where it looked like the team would turn around but didn't...so I'm not getting as excited about this as some are, but the key thing is that the a lot of guys seem to be stepping up at different times, and I find that interesting and promising.

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
Knickoftime
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11/1/2017  2:28 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
Swishfm3 wrote:
jrodmc wrote:
stanleybostitch wrote:
jrodmc wrote:Wow, we have better players, and we play better. Imagine that.

THJr hits shots.
Kanter hits shots.
Frickin Jarret Jack is hitting shots.
KP playing out of his mind. With 5 whole assists in 6 games.

Right, must be all about Melo being gone. SMH.

Melo and Rose stunted KP's development, without those two ball hogs around he is flourishing.

Riiiiiiiiiight, and KP set all those records his rookie year because he was being stunted? I suppose Melo helped caused KP's injuries too, right?
Melo kept KP from working out like he did this past off season, right?
Melo kept KP from being older than 22 before this season, right?

Give it a break.

Why do you bother?

We have one poster that just said that Melo is the third option out west, which if you have watched any OKC games so far, is not true..
Another poster said that Melo is holding the ball 5-7 seconds at OKC, also not true (would know that if you watch the games)..
AND ANOTHER that just posted that Melo's presence has stunted KP's growth in NY EVEN THOUGH KP's stats have gone up every year while in the league....playing with Melo.

They have to blame everything on Melo. Its the only way they can justify everything that has gone wrong with this organization the last few years.

it's soo pathetic

You guys are just in another camp saying it's one thing not the other.

Maybe it's all of these things, including all the things you mentioned and Melo.

Is that not a reasonable position? Or do you feel better about be 'are not/are too' argument?

fwk00
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11/1/2017  2:43 PM
The architect of this team is Phil Jackson.

He succeeded is an accelerated rebuild (3 years instead of 5).

The core of this team is Phil's from front office down. He left the team in a position to be serious contenders who may parallel the Yankees surprise season.

And yes Rambis deserves credit here too (not that he's the only one).

Flushing Melo was F'n genius on Phil's part.

Knickoftime
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11/1/2017  2:49 PM
fwk00 wrote:The architect of this team is Phil Jackson.

He succeeded is an accelerated rebuild (3 years instead of 5).

Are you saying this team is now rebuilt?

ekstarks94
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11/1/2017  3:19 PM
fwk00 wrote:The architect of this team is Phil Jackson.

He succeeded is an accelerated rebuild (3 years instead of 5).

The core of this team is Phil's from front office down. He left the team in a position to be serious contenders who may parallel the Yankees surprise season.

And yes Rambis deserves credit here too (not that he's the only one).

Flushing Melo was F'n genius on Phil's part.

No way we play like this with the triangle employed.

knicks1248
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11/1/2017  3:54 PM
ekstarks94 wrote:
fwk00 wrote:The architect of this team is Phil Jackson.

He succeeded is an accelerated rebuild (3 years instead of 5).

The core of this team is Phil's from front office down. He left the team in a position to be serious contenders who may parallel the Yankees surprise season.

And yes Rambis deserves credit here too (not that he's the only one).

Flushing Melo was F'n genius on Phil's part.

No way we play like this with the triangle employed.

fisher may still be the knicks coach if it wasn't for phil and rambis, and his 12 man rotaion

ES
newyorknewyork
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11/1/2017  4:08 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
jrodmc wrote:Wow, we have better players, and we play better. Imagine that.

THJr hits shots.
Kanter hits shots.
Frickin Jarret Jack is hitting shots.
KP playing out of his mind. With 5 whole assists in 6 games.

Right, must be all about Melo being gone. SMH.

There is a valid argument to be made, not necessarily won, but made, that an offense that has more movement is more conducive to better, more open shots and players having a better rhythm, all which could positively affect FG%.

the players said they didn't know the offense, kp said the defense was still complicated (something that was said last season all yr long)

The coaching staff made the adjustments and simplified every thing, and it's obviously working. something they couldn't do last season with the triangle being shoved down their throats, and rambis retarded defensive strategy.

That would make more sense if they didn't have to make changes to the starting lineup replacing Jack with Sessions. And the fact that they were able to include their #8 lotto pick into the fold who was largely drafted due to his defensive capabilities. Plus the fact that KP is now entering his 3rd yr of development.

Interesting how this team doesn't run a lot of PNR and relies on multiple big men to bang in the paint and relies on ball movement from the whole team rather then one ball dominant guard. Also goes ISO KP when nessesary. Sounds very familiar. Yet are finding success in today's NBA.

IMO, the difference in KP's Iso's and melo's Iso's is KP makes his moves quicker .

The cuts to the basket are way better than before, and the pace of the games is the biggest change, that part is surprising considering we don't have a lot of fast guys.

less not forget the rebound aspect which has been a +20, +10, +13 in the last 3 games

That and the fact that KP is 7'3 making his shot unguardable. Hornacek gave his explainations too many of the failures last yr. Not many people wanted to listen though since they already had the pitch forks out. Now most of the players are 2 yrs in. The new ones brought him a lot of them are high IQ. And the standards have been set. They don't buy in or understand the plays they don't play.

newyorknewyork
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11/1/2017  4:16 PM
ekstarks94 wrote:
fwk00 wrote:The architect of this team is Phil Jackson.

He succeeded is an accelerated rebuild (3 years instead of 5).

The core of this team is Phil's from front office down. He left the team in a position to be serious contenders who may parallel the Yankees surprise season.

And yes Rambis deserves credit here too (not that he's the only one).

Flushing Melo was F'n genius on Phil's part.

No way we play like this with the triangle employed.

There is a lot more evidence that the pieces in place are making the difference over the offense. Since we still run triangle principals. Our offense doesn't look that much different. KP is just on another level then he was the yr prior. And we have PGs that do all the little things which is the opposite of last yr sand Baker. Our defensive effort is way higher. We have players competing for playing time at almost every position. Kanter doesn't play D he gets pulled for KOQ who has Willy waiting for his opportunity. Hardaway,Lee,Dougie,Beas any one of them are struggling then the next guy is ready to try and take those mins. Sessions and Baker just got beat out by Jack and Frank.

newyorknewyork
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11/1/2017  4:23 PM
The narrative was that we were supposed to get a player like Smith. Give him the keys and live and die by his decisions. Run PNR with KP at center to death. And shoot as many 3s as possible. And that the triangle prevented us from doing all those things that would lead us to success.

We have an older PG and a "triangle" pick for a backup. With KP still at PF. We rarely run PNR. Dump the ball to the high and low post often. Rely way more on team ball and player movement then guard penetration.

But we wanna claim no triangle?

CrushAlot
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11/1/2017  4:38 PM
I think Perry bringing in Jack was a great move. O'Quinn and Kanter have been an awesome pairing. KP has stepped up as the franchise player. Lee has looked really good in his 2/3 role. Hornacek adjusting the rotation and going with guys that play d and play well together has been a big part of the success. Competent point guard play. A lot of factors. What I don't understand is the desire to just move a guy like O'quinn when things are working right now. Things haven't worked for the Knicks very often in the last decade.
I think we know what we're doing..... Phil Jackson
fishmike
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11/1/2017  4:55 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:The narrative was that we were supposed to get a player like Smith. Give him the keys and live and die by his decisions. Run PNR with KP at center to death. And shoot as many 3s as possible. And that the triangle prevented us from doing all those things that would lead us to success.

We have an older PG and a "triangle" pick for a backup. With KP still at PF. We rarely run PNR. Dump the ball to the high and low post often. Rely way more on team ball and player movement then guard penetration.

But we wanna claim no triangle?

dude we run a LOT of P&R. We play 2 bigs.
fishmike - Making UltimateKnicks great again
yellowboy90
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11/1/2017  5:39 PM
Why do so many fans fall for the banana in the tale pipe. Its early in the season let's get to the 40 game mark before we judge this team. KP started off last year playing great hopefully he has made adjustments to his conditioning to keep playing as great as he is the entire year.
yellowboy90
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11/1/2017  5:43 PM
EnySpree wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:Melo's absence...

Hey, somebody was going to say it... :-)

It's true... Melo is in OKC being Melo. Holding the ball for 5-7 seconds before he makes a move. On a team with superstars that might work... Melo would kill everything we're doing now on both ends

You clearly have not watched OKC play if you are making this statement. Does he still iso yes but he is making quick decision and passing the ball better than he has possibly ever. Its early but Melo is playing great. He needs to rebound a lot better though but that looks like its starting to tick upwards.

newyorknewyork
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11/1/2017  6:05 PM
yellowboy90 wrote:Why do so many fans fall for the banana in the tale pipe. Its early in the season let's get to the 40 game mark before we judge this team. KP started off last year playing great hopefully he has made adjustments to his conditioning to keep playing as great as he is the entire year.

Made me think of one of my favorite movies.

Knickoftime
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11/1/2017  6:11 PM
yellowboy90 wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:Melo's absence...

Hey, somebody was going to say it... :-)

It's true... Melo is in OKC being Melo. Holding the ball for 5-7 seconds before he makes a move. On a team with superstars that might work... Melo would kill everything we're doing now on both ends

You clearly have not watched OKC play if you are making this statement. Does he still iso yes but he is making quick decision and passing the ball better than he has possibly ever. Its early but Melo is playing great. He needs to rebound a lot better though but that looks like its starting to tick upwards.

Funny you noticed his rebounding. It is at a career low rate. So is his assist rate. I'll take your word for it that is moving the ball better than he has in the past but for whatever reason it isn't converting to assists, compared his own career rates.

Maybe that's a Westbrook factor?

WaltLongmire
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11/1/2017  7:05 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
Swishfm3 wrote:
jrodmc wrote:
stanleybostitch wrote:
jrodmc wrote:Wow, we have better players, and we play better. Imagine that.

THJr hits shots.
Kanter hits shots.
Frickin Jarret Jack is hitting shots.
KP playing out of his mind. With 5 whole assists in 6 games.

Right, must be all about Melo being gone. SMH.

Melo and Rose stunted KP's development, without those two ball hogs around he is flourishing.

Riiiiiiiiiight, and KP set all those records his rookie year because he was being stunted? I suppose Melo helped caused KP's injuries too, right?
Melo kept KP from working out like he did this past off season, right?
Melo kept KP from being older than 22 before this season, right?

Give it a break.

Why do you bother?

We have one poster that just said that Melo is the third option out west, which if you have watched any OKC games so far, is not true..
Another poster said that Melo is holding the ball 5-7 seconds at OKC, also not true (would know that if you watch the games)..
AND ANOTHER that just posted that Melo's presence has stunted KP's growth in NY EVEN THOUGH KP's stats have gone up every year while in the league....playing with Melo.

They have to blame everything on Melo. Its the only way they can justify everything that has gone wrong with this organization the last few years.

it's soo pathetic


Getting rid of Walt Bellamy and Komives for Debusschere, in itself, was not an overwhelming player exchange, but it allowed Reed to have control in the post, opened up space for Clyde to do his thing, and Debusschere, a great complimentary player, was able to become the glue player on the team.

Getting rid of Rose and Melo, two players who needed the ball to be effective, allows KP to emerge as the go to player and gives other players on the team more opportunity to contribute.

Don't have to blame everything on Melo to understand that his departure is a positive thing.

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
meloshouldgo
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11/1/2017  7:26 PM
fwk00 wrote:The architect of this team is Phil Jackson.

He succeeded is an accelerated rebuild (3 years instead of 5).

The core of this team is Phil's from front office down. He left the team in a position to be serious contenders who may parallel the Yankees surprise season.

And yes Rambis deserves credit here too (not that he's the only one).

Flushing Melo was F'n genius on Phil's part.

All the negatives were Phil's fault, all the positives were by accident or luck, don't you read? How dare you give credit where it's due? If it wasn't for the guy with 11 rings, Melo would still be here "leading us" to the next 30 win season, where it was everyone else's fault. Good times.

The only things that trickle down are wages and horse shit
Uptown
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11/1/2017  8:06 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/1/2017  8:07 PM
fwk00 wrote:The architect of this team is Phil Jackson.

He succeeded is an accelerated rebuild (3 years instead of 5).

The core of this team is Phil's from front office down. He left the team in a position to be serious contenders who may parallel the Yankees surprise season.

And yes Rambis deserves credit here too (not that he's the only one).

Flushing Melo was F'n genius on Phil's part.

phil didnt trade Melo, Perry and Mills pulled the actual trigger than landed us Kanter, and McBuckets who are apart of the current core you speak of. So is Hardaway who also have nothing to do with phil. If it wasn't for big cheif triangle giving out the NTC, Melo would have been gone sooner. Had phil stayed and executed the trade on his own, Ryan Anderson and his albatross contract may be a Knick right now

You have no idea what your talking about when you credit phil for building the front office that has been revamp since phil was shown the door. Scott Perry was not a phil hire, neither was new GM Gerald Madkins, or Harold Ellis who is the new director of player personnel. Michael Arcieri is the director of basketball strategy. All were hired by Perry not phil.

Only credit I will give him is the drafting of KP, who he had a hand in alienating. Other than that, Good F&*%*#$ riddance

we're often quick to blame; for a change, who gets the credit for ...

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