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Jarret Jack Love
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meloshouldgo
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10/31/2017  9:37 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
anrst wrote:after all we've been through, i am completely blown away by a competent pg who prioritizes getting everyone going in the offense.

We've had plenty of PGs who tried (unsuccessfully for the most part) to get everyone on the same page. We've had our share of veteran leaders as well.

What the Knicks havent had enough of at PG (among other positions) is competence. Mostly PGs who didnt have enough left in the tank, or not healthy enough, to make good use of their veteran skills.

Competence and unselfishness. Both are needed in equal parts.

The only things that trickle down are wages and horse shit
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franco12
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11/1/2017  8:49 AM
GustavBahler wrote:
anrst wrote:after all we've been through, i am completely blown away by a competent pg who prioritizes getting everyone going in the offense.

We've had plenty of PGs who tried (unsuccessfully for the most part) to get everyone on the same page. We've had our share of veteran leaders as well.

What the Knicks havent had enough of at PG (among other positions) is competence. Mostly PGs who didnt have enough left in the tank, or not healthy enough, to make good use of their veteran skills.

I disagree. I think you're right - we have great PGs that have been here - but what is missing is Melo!

This year vs. last year is addition by subtraction. There is clearly space for a PG like Jack to step in and lead. There is an opportunity for KP to excel.

NONE of this would be happening if Melo was still here.

I love that we got two really good, young players for him.

But imagine where we'd be if we hadn't resigned him- or hadn't traded for him in the first place!

GustavBahler
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11/1/2017  9:07 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/1/2017  9:55 AM
franco12 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
anrst wrote:after all we've been through, i am completely blown away by a competent pg who prioritizes getting everyone going in the offense.

We've had plenty of PGs who tried (unsuccessfully for the most part) to get everyone on the same page. We've had our share of veteran leaders as well.

What the Knicks havent had enough of at PG (among other positions) is competence. Mostly PGs who didnt have enough left in the tank, or not healthy enough, to make good use of their veteran skills.

I disagree. I think you're right - we have great PGs that have been here - but what is missing is Melo!

This year vs. last year is addition by subtraction. There is clearly space for a PG like Jack to step in and lead. There is an opportunity for KP to excel.

NONE of this would be happening if Melo was still here.

I love that we got two really good, young players for him.

But imagine where we'd be if we hadn't resigned him- or hadn't traded for him in the first place!

If the Knicks were better without Melo on the floor than with him, there was plenty of time for the numbers to bear that out. Melo was part of the problem at times, but not the problem. That would fall on mgmt. and ownership. Im just happy that both sides are doing well in this trade.

I wholeheartedly agree that Melo leaving has allowed KP to emerge, but things still were tough without a competent starting PG. Just had to watch how the Knicks played this season without one.

technomaster
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11/1/2017  10:08 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/1/2017  10:09 AM
Phil downplayed the value of dominant PGs, figuring that the triangle worked in the past with journeymen who hit their spots. His successful teams relied on multiple playmakers - ie players capable of making assists or getting hockey assists.

Bulls:
Jordan, Pippen, Kukoc, Harper, Rodman, BJ, Paxson, Kerr, plus all of their centers (Longley, Bill/Purdue/Bill Wennington, etc) were tailor made for this - most of these guys were capable of averaging 3+apg given starter minutes.

Lakers:
Shaq, Kobe, Odom, Horry, Bynum, Gasol, Fisher, Walton, Farmar, Brown, Vujevic, Turiaf


So as good and versatile as Carmelo was, he had a drastic dearth of playmakers that it was almost cruel to use a system mismatched for the personnel. Rose and Lee aren't great fits - they're more about getting their own scoring opportunities. KP isn't really ideal for the triangle - he's a scorer/finisher. Noah is pretty ideal for the triangle, but he had other issues that kept him off the floor.

In any case, I think the Knicks figured out that KP isn't Paul Gasol - and he'd need a pretty big transformation to turn into a 4-5apg sort of player. To do that, it would be counterproductive to his unique capability - at 7'3" NO ONE can stop him from getting a clean look at the basket, so why should he ever pass? :)

I like what Jack brings to the table - he's a traditional floor leader who has a pretty good feel of when it's time to break plays and be opportunistic. He's a bit of an odd duck in the sense that he seemed to figure out how to play and be productive relatively late (in his prime years), and didn't establish himself as a "PG of the future" sort of player in his early-mid 20s. Thus he's bounced around a little bit as mentoring piece for young, up and coming teams and is getting starting gigs late in his career.

On one hand, you can say his body is well rested after taking off most of the prior 2 seasons. But at his relatively advanced age for an NBA player, you wonder if his knees just needed time to heal fully. I would say one thing - if he has sore knees, he's going to play through it (vs Dennis Smith Jr, whose team will hold him out conservatively) and keep the continuity going.

Let's enjoy the Jack revival while we still have it. I'd bet that next season, another would-be championship contender will pluck him away as the final piece for a championship run.

Kevin Dolorico | "That was two, two from the heart." - John Starks
NYKBocker
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11/1/2017  10:47 AM
Trivia question: Which ex-Knick PG is Jack's cousin?
Ira
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11/1/2017  12:19 PM
He's probably helping Frank adjust to the league as well.
PresIke
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11/1/2017  2:01 PM
Main hope and concern is regarding keeping it up over the course of the season at his age.

Reminds me of the effect of when we had Kidd, Rasheed, KT, etc.

Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
knickknack
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11/1/2017  2:40 PM
the better frank gets and the more minutes he can be asked to play as the season goes on will help limit Jack's minutes, its a win - win for the knicks!
trust the kristaps-cess!
Jarret Jack Love

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