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After Game 5: What are the Knicks missing?
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EnySpree
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10/30/2017  9:08 AM    LAST EDITED: 10/30/2017  9:37 AM
The Knicks have been through 82 games worth of bull**** in 5 games lol..... but man did the Knicks look good the last 2 games. They looked great against Detroit too for 3 quarters.

In no particular order, Lee, THJr, KP, Kanter, Jack, Frank, KOQ have all been playing great...

We've established an identity out of nowhere. Jack and Frank locked down the pg situation. Lee and THJr are a nice tandem. Lee is playing great role player basketball. THJr might have finally broken out of his shell. Kp is a stud! Kanter is the Turkish hammer! KOQ has set the table as a work horse big off the bench.

Thomas has been terrible. His team defense is horrible. He makes a great play then 3 straight bone head plays. McDermott looks great but plays blah...

I personally want to see Beasley replace Thomas indefinitely. For what Thomas rep says, his play every night says otherwise. If the guy is going to suck that bad might as well play Beas. At least we know Beas is gonna score. As far as McDermott, he needs to step up or the Knicks need to move on.

I feel we need a small fwd. If you comb the league there are quite a few guys out there lingering. I love what Rudy gay is doing off the bench for San Antonio. We could use a legit NBA starter on our bench at fwd in that same role

We have sessions, KOQ, Thomas, Kuz, Willy to trade.... I feel we need to pounce on somebody early and get the ball rolling on this first quarter of the season

You know why I'm here....
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BRIGGS
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10/30/2017  9:20 AM    LAST EDITED: 10/30/2017  9:24 AM
I think its pretty easy to assess the Knicks.

We have a top 5 or even top 3 frontcourt--let the numbers speak for themselves. We have high level efficiency where others do not.

I suspect we will see games like this from THJ followed by 3-16's and back to 28 points etc.. until proven otherwise.

With Jack and Frank--a certain calm has come over the PG position--although they arent John Wall.--and dont nee to be.

We do not have a 3 man--so there will be team who exploit that

Its a much different team than in many years---higher focus on efficiency. With efficiency will come success. 3 times we were +20 in a game 5 games in.

We also lack quality depth through the wings

fishmike
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10/30/2017  9:21 AM
Willy is untouchable. Unless its for Josh Jackson.

KP is a 4. Look at him scoring. And people wanted him banging against 5s? No. Please pretty please put your little stretch 4 on KP. I am really enjoying him drop 30 a game and look like he's having fun doing it.

This was the blueprint. Push the pace when you can. When you cant use our size. I love having 2 bigs on the floor. Yes there are times when it can be exploited but to do so you are conceding rebounds. We are huge up front and its showing on both sides of the ball. If we defend the perimeter we have a nice formula. I thought with better guard plan than last year we would see the win total go up from 31 to 35-38.

People wanted to tank. This team can make the playoffs.

fishmike - Making UltimateKnicks great again
EnySpree
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10/30/2017  9:34 AM
fishmike wrote:Willy is untouchable. Unless its for Josh Jackson.

KP is a 4. Look at him scoring. And people wanted him banging against 5s? No. Please pretty please put your little stretch 4 on KP. I am really enjoying him drop 30 a game and look like he's having fun doing it.

This was the blueprint. Push the pace when you can. When you cant use our size. I love having 2 bigs on the floor. Yes there are times when it can be exploited but to do so you are conceding rebounds. We are huge up front and its showing on both sides of the ball. If we defend the perimeter we have a nice formula. I thought with better guard plan than last year we would see the win total go up from 31 to 35-38.

People wanted to tank. This team can make the playoffs.

I'm on board with everything except Willy. I think he's just the focal point of the Knicks future... i just feel with kanter, noah,koq and Kormet in the g league... where does Willy fit? We simply can't start him ahead of Kanter. He's not going to really improve what we are doing out there off the bench. The kid truly needs 30 minutes on his own team.... with that said we surely can pick up a legit 30 min stud at small fwd in exchange for Willy. I truly believe this is what we have to do to get better.

You know why I'm here....
StarksEwing1
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10/30/2017  9:46 AM    LAST EDITED: 10/30/2017  9:47 AM
EnySpree wrote:
fishmike wrote:Willy is untouchable. Unless its for Josh Jackson.

KP is a 4. Look at him scoring. And people wanted him banging against 5s? No. Please pretty please put your little stretch 4 on KP. I am really enjoying him drop 30 a game and look like he's having fun doing it.

This was the blueprint. Push the pace when you can. When you cant use our size. I love having 2 bigs on the floor. Yes there are times when it can be exploited but to do so you are conceding rebounds. We are huge up front and its showing on both sides of the ball. If we defend the perimeter we have a nice formula. I thought with better guard plan than last year we would see the win total go up from 31 to 35-38.

People wanted to tank. This team can make the playoffs.

I'm on board with everything except Willy. I think he's just the focal point of the Knicks future... i just feel with kanter, noah,koq and Kormet in the g league... where does Willy fit? We simply can't start him ahead of Kanter. He's not going to really improve what we are doing out there off the bench. The kid truly needs 30 minutes on his own team.... with that said we surely can pick up a legit 30 min stud at small fwd in exchange for Willy. I truly believe this is what we have to do to get better.

i know everyone is in love with kanter now but i guarantee there will be times when his shot is not falling and he has to impact the game in other ways and wont be able to do it. There is a reason OKC had to sit him late in games. Willy was the rare positive sign we had last year when given minutes. He is younger cheaper and can do other things. Plus im positive kanter will opt out anyway. So just getting rid of willy doesnt make much sense. Thankfully Perry feels the same way
nyknickzingis
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10/30/2017  9:50 AM    LAST EDITED: 10/30/2017  9:53 AM
What we lack:

Don't have a consistent second option. Kanter and THj are good third or fourth option players. We need that second consistent creator ideally a guard. Frank is two years away from that for now he's an exciting rookie backup spark.

Don't have a starting level point guard. Jack is a good leader and playing smart basketball. However over the course of the season this will be an issue.

KP has typically cooled down or gotten injured after a strong start. If this trend continues without that second top notch player we are in trouble. Don't know if Tim is ready or capable to be that guy. Last night was maybe a once in every 5 games type of performance.

On the bright side through 5 games the teams defense numbers are much better than last year.
Effort is just more with this group. If we end up a 30 win team this will show how much of a problem Melo and Rose were.

A guy that can still help us is Noah. His defensive energy off the bench can be infectious. Excited to see a lineup with Noah and Frank in it. Man we could be really deep this year.

Chandler
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10/30/2017  9:51 AM
EnySpree wrote:
fishmike wrote:Willy is untouchable. Unless its for Josh Jackson.

KP is a 4. Look at him scoring. And people wanted him banging against 5s? No. Please pretty please put your little stretch 4 on KP. I am really enjoying him drop 30 a game and look like he's having fun doing it.

This was the blueprint. Push the pace when you can. When you cant use our size. I love having 2 bigs on the floor. Yes there are times when it can be exploited but to do so you are conceding rebounds. We are huge up front and its showing on both sides of the ball. If we defend the perimeter we have a nice formula. I thought with better guard plan than last year we would see the win total go up from 31 to 35-38.

People wanted to tank. This team can make the playoffs.

I'm on board with everything except Willy. I think he's just the focal point of the Knicks future... i just feel with kanter, noah,koq and Kormet in the g league... where does Willy fit? We simply can't start him ahead of Kanter. He's not going to really improve what we are doing out there off the bench. The kid truly needs 30 minutes on his own team.... with that said we surely can pick up a legit 30 min stud at small fwd in exchange for Willy. I truly believe this is what we have to do to get better.

having the bigs play well is a nice problem to have. McHale came off the bench (behind Cedric Maxwell) for a number of years.

We need to balance the roster better. Too many bigs and too little depth particularly at the 3. Someone needs to be moved

DJMUSIC: Fisher talked a good game in Post game but aside from that Derek Fisher was ALL CHIT CHAT SH_t and produced nothing!
Knickoftime
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10/30/2017  9:54 AM
EnySpree wrote:with that said we surely can pick up a legit 30 min stud at small fwd in exchange for Willy.

Not alone you can't. Knicks are over the cap and Hernangomez makes $1.3m. Nobody but second rounders makes that kind of money.

In order to get legit small forward you're seeking you have to send out much more salary, which really alters the equation.

EnySpree
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10/30/2017  10:00 AM    LAST EDITED: 10/30/2017  10:03 AM
StarksEwing1 wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
fishmike wrote:Willy is untouchable. Unless its for Josh Jackson.

KP is a 4. Look at him scoring. And people wanted him banging against 5s? No. Please pretty please put your little stretch 4 on KP. I am really enjoying him drop 30 a game and look like he's having fun doing it.

This was the blueprint. Push the pace when you can. When you cant use our size. I love having 2 bigs on the floor. Yes there are times when it can be exploited but to do so you are conceding rebounds. We are huge up front and its showing on both sides of the ball. If we defend the perimeter we have a nice formula. I thought with better guard plan than last year we would see the win total go up from 31 to 35-38.

People wanted to tank. This team can make the playoffs.

I'm on board with everything except Willy. I think he's just the focal point of the Knicks future... i just feel with kanter, noah,koq and Kormet in the g league... where does Willy fit? We simply can't start him ahead of Kanter. He's not going to really improve what we are doing out there off the bench. The kid truly needs 30 minutes on his own team.... with that said we surely can pick up a legit 30 min stud at small fwd in exchange for Willy. I truly believe this is what we have to do to get better.

i know everyone is in love with kanter now but i guarantee there will be times when his shot is not falling and he has to impact the game in other ways and wont be able to do it. There is a reason OKC had to sit him late in games. Willy was the rare positive sign we had last year when given minutes. He is younger cheaper and can do other things. Plus im positive kanter will opt out anyway. So just getting rid of willy doesnt make much sense. Thankfully Perry feels the same way

It's not getting rid of him. Its moving an asset to improve the team. Nobody is saying Willy is trash.

I look around all the time for trades. There's not many team's that need a center with players we can have use for.

One team I'm looking at now though is Dallas... would they trade Harrison Barnes for Kanter and Kuz? If they would do that then you make that deal. Dallas needs a center and a small fwd plus they love europeans. Its a fair trade. Barnes would slide right into a 6th man role sand solidfify what we are trying to do.

You know why I'm here....
fishmike
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10/30/2017  10:01 AM
Chandler wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
fishmike wrote:Willy is untouchable. Unless its for Josh Jackson.

KP is a 4. Look at him scoring. And people wanted him banging against 5s? No. Please pretty please put your little stretch 4 on KP. I am really enjoying him drop 30 a game and look like he's having fun doing it.

This was the blueprint. Push the pace when you can. When you cant use our size. I love having 2 bigs on the floor. Yes there are times when it can be exploited but to do so you are conceding rebounds. We are huge up front and its showing on both sides of the ball. If we defend the perimeter we have a nice formula. I thought with better guard plan than last year we would see the win total go up from 31 to 35-38.

People wanted to tank. This team can make the playoffs.

I'm on board with everything except Willy. I think he's just the focal point of the Knicks future... i just feel with kanter, noah,koq and Kormet in the g league... where does Willy fit? We simply can't start him ahead of Kanter. He's not going to really improve what we are doing out there off the bench. The kid truly needs 30 minutes on his own team.... with that said we surely can pick up a legit 30 min stud at small fwd in exchange for Willy. I truly believe this is what we have to do to get better.

having the bigs play well is a nice problem to have. McHale came off the bench (behind Cedric Maxwell) for a number of years.

We need to balance the roster better. Too many bigs and too little depth particularly at the 3. Someone needs to be moved

Long term? We have 3 bigs.. Willy/KP/Kanter.

Why Noah expires Willy is due for his extension. Its going to be a glut. Why does Willy have to start? He can come off the bench. Willy has Gasol potential (pick one) and Im not giving that up unless its for a clear blue chip SF like Josh.

Let me put it this way. I view Willy as a player who was just taken with a top 5 pick and has shown great NBA potential already. If you are willing to move that you do so for equal value. I would only do it for a top flight prospect at the 3.

I think you can have 3 bigs on the team and thrive. That being said I also think KAnter's value will make him the guy to trade. He brings a lot but doesnt pass and Willy also sets a better pick. No need to rush. Be patient. Willy also.

fishmike - Making UltimateKnicks great again
StarksEwing1
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10/30/2017  10:21 AM
fishmike wrote:
Chandler wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
fishmike wrote:Willy is untouchable. Unless its for Josh Jackson.

KP is a 4. Look at him scoring. And people wanted him banging against 5s? No. Please pretty please put your little stretch 4 on KP. I am really enjoying him drop 30 a game and look like he's having fun doing it.

This was the blueprint. Push the pace when you can. When you cant use our size. I love having 2 bigs on the floor. Yes there are times when it can be exploited but to do so you are conceding rebounds. We are huge up front and its showing on both sides of the ball. If we defend the perimeter we have a nice formula. I thought with better guard plan than last year we would see the win total go up from 31 to 35-38.

People wanted to tank. This team can make the playoffs.

I'm on board with everything except Willy. I think he's just the focal point of the Knicks future... i just feel with kanter, noah,koq and Kormet in the g league... where does Willy fit? We simply can't start him ahead of Kanter. He's not going to really improve what we are doing out there off the bench. The kid truly needs 30 minutes on his own team.... with that said we surely can pick up a legit 30 min stud at small fwd in exchange for Willy. I truly believe this is what we have to do to get better.

having the bigs play well is a nice problem to have. McHale came off the bench (behind Cedric Maxwell) for a number of years.

We need to balance the roster better. Too many bigs and too little depth particularly at the 3. Someone needs to be moved

Long term? We have 3 bigs.. Willy/KP/Kanter.

Why Noah expires Willy is due for his extension. Its going to be a glut. Why does Willy have to start? He can come off the bench. Willy has Gasol potential (pick one) and Im not giving that up unless its for a clear blue chip SF like Josh.

Let me put it this way. I view Willy as a player who was just taken with a top 5 pick and has shown great NBA potential already. If you are willing to move that you do so for equal value. I would only do it for a top flight prospect at the 3.

I think you can have 3 bigs on the team and thrive. That being said I also think KAnter's value will make him the guy to trade. He brings a lot but doesnt pass and Willy also sets a better pick. No need to rush. Be patient. Willy also.

exactly. Plus kanter will most certainly opt out and look for even more money and im not giving him that given his issues on defense and other areas. If someone gives us an offer we can refuse then i would trade willy otherwise no way
Paris907
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10/30/2017  11:43 AM
fishmike wrote:Willy is untouchable. Unless its for Josh Jackson.

KP is a 4. Look at him scoring. And people wanted him banging against 5s? No. Please pretty please put your little stretch 4 on KP. I am really enjoying him drop 30 a game and look like he's having fun doing it.

This was the blueprint. Push the pace when you can. When you cant use our size. I love having 2 bigs on the floor. Yes there are times when it can be exploited but to do so you are conceding rebounds. We are huge up front and its showing on both sides of the ball. If we defend the perimeter we have a nice formula. I thought with better guard plan than last year we would see the win total go up from 31 to 35-38.

People wanted to tank. This team can make the playoffs.

I prefer a tank. If we are contemplating a championship, then only a few pieces make sense and neither Kanter, OQuinn nor Noah will be around nor will Lee or Thomas for that matter.

The league is becoming increasingly athletic at an exponential rate.
Contrary to the opinion of most, I’d take the projected 3 of 4 bigs before Doncic. Yes I want a 2 way
Athlete who will be a force down low for years. Therefore Wily,KP and this draftee will log 30 plug per night and play great D, board, score and win.

If it’s Porter, he’s your 6-10” super athletic 3.

newyorknewyork
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10/30/2017  12:24 PM
An Andre Igoudala type, & Hardaway to play exactly like he did last night every night.
Upgrades at the forward positions SF & backup SF/PF.
Instant offense G off the bench to compliment Frank & Jack.

We don't run much picks for Frank. He mostly gives the ball up to a wing. Looks to feed to post. Which makes sense given the makeup of the team with the amount of bigs we have and spacing issues. But we need to be able to offer the versatility of going spread PNR or POP. Letting Frank run the show with the ball in his hands for a stretch.

KP the go to guy, Hardaway the 2nd option, and Frank to develop into a threat which setting up picks for him and getting him in the PNR groove will help. Kanter to produce without plays being called for him. Lee & Jack to continue to make high IQ plays on both sides of the ball.

GoNyGoNyGo
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10/30/2017  12:28 PM
Moe Harkless.

That is the player they wanted and the type of player that they need. Size and length, D, and 3 point ability.

Yet another mistake by Dolan. When will it end?
GustavBahler
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10/30/2017  12:30 PM
nyknickzingis wrote:What we lack:

Don't have a consistent second option. Kanter and THj are good third or fourth option players. We need that second consistent creator ideally a guard. Frank is two years away from that for now he's an exciting rookie backup spark.

Don't have a starting level point guard. Jack is a good leader and playing smart basketball. However over the course of the season this will be an issue.

KP has typically cooled down or gotten injured after a strong start. If this trend continues without that second top notch player we are in trouble. Don't know if Tim is ready or capable to be that guy. Last night was maybe a once in every 5 games type of performance.

On the bright side through 5 games the teams defense numbers are much better than last year.
Effort is just more with this group. If we end up a 30 win team this will show how much of a problem Melo and Rose were.

A guy that can still help us is Noah. His defensive energy off the bench can be infectious. Excited to see a lineup with Noah and Frank in it. Man we could be really deep this year.

Agree about Jack, he is a band-aid for this offense right now. Neither Jack, Sessions, Baker, Frank, has shown any willingness to take it strong to the rim, for various reasons. We might have a good regular season in spite of this, but if the Knicks made the playoffs (hard to call right now) that would be something other teams would exploit.

newyorknewyork
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10/30/2017  12:48 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:What we lack:

Don't have a consistent second option. Kanter and THj are good third or fourth option players. We need that second consistent creator ideally a guard. Frank is two years away from that for now he's an exciting rookie backup spark.

Don't have a starting level point guard. Jack is a good leader and playing smart basketball. However over the course of the season this will be an issue.

KP has typically cooled down or gotten injured after a strong start. If this trend continues without that second top notch player we are in trouble. Don't know if Tim is ready or capable to be that guy. Last night was maybe a once in every 5 games type of performance.

On the bright side through 5 games the teams defense numbers are much better than last year.
Effort is just more with this group. If we end up a 30 win team this will show how much of a problem Melo and Rose were.

A guy that can still help us is Noah. His defensive energy off the bench can be infectious. Excited to see a lineup with Noah and Frank in it. Man we could be really deep this year.

Agree about Jack, he is a band-aid for this offense right now. Neither Jack, Sessions, Baker, Frank, has shown any willingness to take it strong to the rim, for various reasons. We might have a good regular season in spite of this, but if the Knicks made the playoffs (hard to call right now) that would be something other teams would exploit.

There was one play which Frank got Wade in the air on a pump fake. Got by him and got picked up by a big. Don't remember if it was Love or Tristan. I was begging for him to just drive make or miss.

Overall though vs Cavs didn't see to many picks set to create pg penetration. Like there is no real plan for that at the moment.

KP4Life
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10/30/2017  12:56 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/30/2017  12:57 PM
I think we should trade a 3 for Willy, but I'm not sure who. I'm guessing there is no way we can get Josh Jackson, what if we traded Willy, Clee, Chicago 2nd for him. Would Suns do that trade? It's prob not enough. Damn I'd even throw in this years 1st for him if that's what it takes. Moe Harkless is another good young SF but he's not really worth Willy imo
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10/30/2017  1:01 PM
Toughness? Accepting that teams will try to rough them up at times?

They've shown more confidence on offense...beginning in the first half vs the Pistons.

In the second half of the Pistons game, and in the Celtics game, they were roughhoused and did not respond as well as they could have.

The Nets, although small, played with some toughness, and the Knicks responded. Cav had flashes of toughness, but they seemed to wear down mentally as the game when on, and in general, the Knicks showed some toughness in a situation they would have been unable to deal with in the past.

We just have to learn to deal with any situation thrown at us. Guys like Jack and Lee seem to be stepping up on the court and in the lockerroom, KP is emerging as a league star, Frank is providing a burst of energy and Euro selfless teamwork and D, THJ hopefully has his groove back, and Kanter provides a lot of energy, scoring, and rebounding in the post.

Would not go too crazy over the last 2 games, but at least see a glimmer of hope, and maybe a group of players who are finally coming together.

Time will tell.

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
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10/30/2017  1:28 PM
fishmike wrote:Willy is untouchable. Unless its for Josh Jackson.

What in the world has Hernangomez done to make him "untouchable" ?!

Knicks need to use Kanter or Hernangomez has trade leverage to improve other positions like SF or PG...and I think one of these two will be gone by seasons end.

It would not surprise me one bit if we see Hernangomez attached to Noah, in a trade, in order to get his contract off the books. I just hope that when it does happen, it's not for garbage expiring contracts but actual players that help the team move forward.

Knickoftime
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10/30/2017  1:32 PM
Swishfm3 wrote:
fishmike wrote:Willy is untouchable. Unless its for Josh Jackson.

What in the world has Hernangomez done to make him "untouchable" ?!

It would not surprise me one bit if we see Hernangomez attached to Noah, in a trade, in order to get his contract off the books. I just hope that when it does happen, it's not for garbage expiring contracts but actual players that help the team move forward.

On that note, what has Hernangomez done to warrant a team taking Noah just to get him?

After Game 5: What are the Knicks missing?

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