[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

I hate the idea of tanking
Author Thread
SupremeCommander
Posts: 31791
Alba Posts: 35
Joined: 4/28/2006
Member: #1127

10/28/2017  5:47 PM
OldFan wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:I tend to agree, but I want to get another player on par with KP

I heard an interview with a Philly reporter. He said in his entire career, across all sports, he never saw an issue divide generations the way tanking and The Process did. I found that interesting

Hard to accept tanking in the beginning of the season...but if there seems to be no chance of a playoff spot with 15 games left...things change.

We love KP, but would we rather have Towns?

Would you rather have had a chance to take certain other players over Frank?

Curry or Hill? I know there were others we could have taken, but we all wanted Curry.


I get upset when we lose now, even though I can see that in the big picture we might want to lose and get a top 3 pick. Hard not to want to win... and if this is true for a fan, you know players and coaches don't want to lose games for a higher draft pick.

Tanking is gaming the system and detracts from the game. I want competitive games and I want the worst teams to get the best draft picks - not the teams that were most willing to tank. Certainly, it better at the end of the season than at the beginning but I don't want to see it at all
A team out of the playoffs - deciding to see what it's young players can do is legit, but if they're doing it just to try to lose games I'm not onboard.

I agree that it detracts from the game, but let me pose it to you like this:

if we all want a championship
and you need stars in the NBA to get a championship
and the easiest way to get a star is to draft one
then you should tank
when you have no chance of winning a championship

that's essentially the argument for tanking. I am not a pro-tank guy, i kinda hate the idea too... but we literally just traded away a first ballot HOFer for cents on the dollar. This season seems to be the exception to me. If the plan was to make a run at the playoffs the best way to do that would have been to keep Melo

fishmike said: Yes. Sometimes I confuse the alerts with when your mom calls. BTW she said defensive guards are really important.
AUTOADVERT
HofstraBBall
Posts: 22339
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/21/2015
Member: #6192

10/28/2017  5:58 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/28/2017  6:02 PM
Knickoftime wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
OldFan wrote:Seems like tanking comes up in almost every thread and I think it's a bad idea.

I'm a Knick fan, but I'm also a basketball fan. Who wants to watch a league where 20% of the teams are tanking?

That's kind of irrelevant. No matter what, 20% of the teams are to be a very bad. You'll never have a league (the NBA, NFL, MLB) in which a decent percentage of the teams aren't very bad, regardless of their intent.

In 1986-87, the Knicks, Nets, Clippers, Spurs and Kings all won less than 30 games (23% of the league). Just part of the game.

Its not irrelevant. Its his opinion. And he was commenting on a couple of points.

Funny how your MO is to take parts of the post and try to make some other point to prove you somehow know more. What's irrelevant is posting the above when a guy comments on:

How he does not agree with tanking. (Which is a valid position)
Doesn't want to watch a league where 20% are tanking. (So he knows the percentage but thanks for the 1986 ref)
How he does not want to watch his team tank but rather compete. (Most fans do)
Thinks the league should find a way to address this. (Which has been discussed and they did)

And the fact that 20% of the league is bad does not address the point of "Intentionally losing" i.e. Tanking.


So watching a team lose 57 games by an average of 12 points is better if a team is trying as opposed to watching them lose 57 games by an average of 12 points if they're tanking??

I was making a pooint made later. First of all the word has become way overused and the idea over estimated.

Two, it really doesn't affect the quality of basketbal actually played.

Knicks have been terrible for years. I don't think that they were trying and awful anyway made them any more pleasing to watch.

You?

No one commented on the enjoyment or prefered way of watching a team lose 57 games.

The quality of the basketball depends on the quality of player put on the court by the GM, not by if he is tanking. (As NO PLAYER tanks)

Knicks have been terrible for many reasons. One of which is the President deciding to sacrifice a year or two for the possibility of rebuilding.

Point missed with anyone claiming a team is tanking is that NO PLAYER/COACH does it. Players play to win. Coaches coach to win.

As mentioned, tanking may be something that MAY take place at the GM's/Prez level. They may have long term ideas of sacrificing a season or two (Can be argued it is what Phil did) but the ones on the court are trying to win.

Btw. Did not agree with original post but did not think his points were "Irrelevent" I agree with the need for something to be done to prevent GM's/Prez's from throwing in the towel on a season. Whcih is being done.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/report-nba-approves-draft-lottery-reform-to-prevent-tanking-and-player-resting-rules/

Melo Haters = Lin lovers who are mad Houston paid so much for his 15 Minutes,
Welpee
Posts: 21615
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/22/2016
Member: #6239

10/28/2017  6:38 PM
fishmike wrote:
smackeddog wrote:Come up with a better idea to get free elite talent. This is the last year you can tank anyways
its not free. tanking comes with a cost. Besides we already tried tanking and it was worth the try. Didnt get KAT but we got the next best guy in KP. That was the tank player. You know the one putting up like 26/8 at age 22. Now its up to the GM to develop, to scout and add talent and to manage our cap. THJ has a lot to prove, so thats a dud so far but I like this draft crop.
Like I mentioned previously, had we tanked properly that year and didn't get KAT we could be standing here frustrated about trying to unload Jahlil Okafor.
newyorker4ever
Posts: 26213
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/19/2014
Member: #5816

10/28/2017  9:01 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/28/2017  9:04 PM
OldFan wrote:Seems like tanking comes up in almost every thread and I think it's a bad idea.

I'm a Knick fan, but I'm also a basketball fan. Who wants to watch a league where 20% of the teams are tanking?

I want to see my team compete. I want to see the opposing teams compete.

I think the NBA should be doing everything in their power to remove the benefits of tanking. It degrades the game.

I'm a basketball fan to and i hate the fact that for the last couple of years i knew who would be in the NBA finals before the season even started and also know who it will be this year. I hate super teams as well. This is the time to build a young team the right way since there's no chance of any other team but GSW and Clev being in the finals so we need to take advantage of this time and get as much good young talent as we can and hope to hell we get a player in this next draft that turns into a star to play next to KP and Frank cause the only way to win anything in this league we have today is with star players.

The team isn't tanking anyway so who cares if the fans want them to tank. This team is trying to win every game.

OldFan
Posts: 21409
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/24/2003
Member: #446
10/28/2017  9:45 PM
SupremeCommander wrote:
OldFan wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:I tend to agree, but I want to get another player on par with KP

I heard an interview with a Philly reporter. He said in his entire career, across all sports, he never saw an issue divide generations the way tanking and The Process did. I found that interesting

Hard to accept tanking in the beginning of the season...but if there seems to be no chance of a playoff spot with 15 games left...things change.

We love KP, but would we rather have Towns?

Would you rather have had a chance to take certain other players over Frank?

Curry or Hill? I know there were others we could have taken, but we all wanted Curry.


I get upset when we lose now, even though I can see that in the big picture we might want to lose and get a top 3 pick. Hard not to want to win... and if this is true for a fan, you know players and coaches don't want to lose games for a higher draft pick.

Tanking is gaming the system and detracts from the game. I want competitive games and I want the worst teams to get the best draft picks - not the teams that were most willing to tank. Certainly, it better at the end of the season than at the beginning but I don't want to see it at all
A team out of the playoffs - deciding to see what it's young players can do is legit, but if they're doing it just to try to lose games I'm not onboard.

I agree that it detracts from the game, but let me pose it to you like this:

if we all want a championship
and you need stars in the NBA to get a championship
and the easiest way to get a star is to draft one
then you should tank
when you have no chance of winning a championship

that's essentially the argument for tanking. I am not a pro-tank guy, i kinda hate the idea too... but we literally just traded away a first ballot HOFer for cents on the dollar. This season seems to be the exception to me. If the plan was to make a run at the playoffs the best way to do that would have been to keep Melo

But your team is not the only team doing it. So to do it successfully you have to do it earlier and with more commitment - which then leads to other teams responding in kind. So you have a race to the bottom with multiple teams involved degrading the league and you still may not succeed.

I understand the lure - I just think for the league as a whole and the fans as a whole it's a negative. As a fan I don't like it and wouldn't encourage it - but obviously, lots of fans think it's the way to go.

WaltLongmire
Posts: 27102
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 6/28/2014
Member: #5843

10/29/2017  3:22 PM
Watching the Jets vs Falcons.

Best thing for Jets, especially with their QB situation is tanking.

I understand the best thing for the team is losing.

Jets just missed a FG after a sack made us have to kick a 48 yrd kick instead of 40.

I banged the armrest on my couch, startling pets and the girlfriend.


Hard to want to see your team lose...do poorly in a game.

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
SupremeCommander
Posts: 31791
Alba Posts: 35
Joined: 4/28/2006
Member: #1127

10/29/2017  3:40 PM
OldFan wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:
OldFan wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:I tend to agree, but I want to get another player on par with KP

I heard an interview with a Philly reporter. He said in his entire career, across all sports, he never saw an issue divide generations the way tanking and The Process did. I found that interesting

Hard to accept tanking in the beginning of the season...but if there seems to be no chance of a playoff spot with 15 games left...things change.

We love KP, but would we rather have Towns?

Would you rather have had a chance to take certain other players over Frank?

Curry or Hill? I know there were others we could have taken, but we all wanted Curry.


I get upset when we lose now, even though I can see that in the big picture we might want to lose and get a top 3 pick. Hard not to want to win... and if this is true for a fan, you know players and coaches don't want to lose games for a higher draft pick.

Tanking is gaming the system and detracts from the game. I want competitive games and I want the worst teams to get the best draft picks - not the teams that were most willing to tank. Certainly, it better at the end of the season than at the beginning but I don't want to see it at all
A team out of the playoffs - deciding to see what it's young players can do is legit, but if they're doing it just to try to lose games I'm not onboard.

I agree that it detracts from the game, but let me pose it to you like this:

if we all want a championship
and you need stars in the NBA to get a championship
and the easiest way to get a star is to draft one
then you should tank
when you have no chance of winning a championship

that's essentially the argument for tanking. I am not a pro-tank guy, i kinda hate the idea too... but we literally just traded away a first ballot HOFer for cents on the dollar. This season seems to be the exception to me. If the plan was to make a run at the playoffs the best way to do that would have been to keep Melo

But your team is not the only team doing it. So to do it successfully you have to do it earlier and with more commitment - which then leads to other teams responding in kind. So you have a race to the bottom with multiple teams involved degrading the league and you still may not succeed.

I understand the lure - I just think for the league as a whole and the fans as a whole it's a negative. As a fan I don't like it and wouldn't encourage it - but obviously, lots of fans think it's the way to go.

while true, it is also true by not doing it you diminish your chances of getting a top pick

I want the team to compete. I just think sometimes it's smarter to stack the deck against yourselves and shut key guys down when its obvious you have nothing to win. For example, I think signing THJ was stupid when he'll never be a star, eat cap space, and in theory could cost us ping pong balls

fishmike said: Yes. Sometimes I confuse the alerts with when your mom calls. BTW she said defensive guards are really important.
Uptown
Posts: 26283
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 4/1/2008
Member: #1883

10/29/2017  4:08 PM
newyorker4ever wrote:
OldFan wrote:Seems like tanking comes up in almost every thread and I think it's a bad idea.

I'm a Knick fan, but I'm also a basketball fan. Who wants to watch a league where 20% of the teams are tanking?

I want to see my team compete. I want to see the opposing teams compete.

I think the NBA should be doing everything in their power to remove the benefits of tanking. It degrades the game.

I'm a basketball fan to and i hate the fact that for the last couple of years i knew who would be in the NBA finals before the season even started and also know who it will be this year. I hate super teams as well. This is the time to build a young team the right way since there's no chance of any other team but GSW and Clev being in the finals so we need to take advantage of this time and get as much good young talent as we can and hope to hell we get a player in this next draft that turns into a star to play next to KP and Frank cause the only way to win anything in this league we have today is with star players.

The team isn't tanking anyway so who cares if the fans want them to tank. This team is trying to win every game.

How is this any different than the 80s when the Lakers advanced to the finals every year except for 2? The Celtics, Sixers and Pistons were the only teams to advance to the finals in the east. Before each season in the 80s it was understood who would appear in the finals.

Uptown
Posts: 26283
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 4/1/2008
Member: #1883

10/29/2017  4:15 PM
Front offices tank, players play hard. The players are trying, and will compete most nights but we lack the talent and roster balance to win most nights. The fornt office will not bring in players like Bledsoe who could help us get a few more wins but bury us in -no-mans-land in the draft. The head coach needs the security to play the rooks, let them improve and take their lumps in the process so that we still will secure a top pick. thats how you tank without tanking so to speak..
Jmpasq
Posts: 22786
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 4/10/2012
Member: #4182

10/29/2017  4:55 PM
Uptown wrote:Front offices tank, players play hard. The players are trying, and will compete most nights but we lack the talent and roster balance to win most nights. The fornt office will not bring in players like Bledsoe who could help us get a few more wins but bury us in -no-mans-land in the draft. The head coach needs the security to play the rooks, let them improve and take their lumps in the process so that we still will secure a top pick. thats how you tank without tanking so to speak..

Yep, you nailed it but your right the coach needs to be reassured he won't be penalized for the young players learning on the job. Trying to win with this roster is ridiculous. I'm hoping we lose a **** crap load of games get Porter or Doncic and not mention the word tank and Knicks again for at least a decade
Check out My NFL Draft Prospect Videos at Youtube User Pages Jmpasq,JPdraftjedi,Jmpasqdraftjedi. www.Draftbreakdown.com
Uptown
Posts: 26283
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 4/1/2008
Member: #1883

10/29/2017  6:45 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/29/2017  6:46 PM
Jmpasq wrote:
Uptown wrote:Front offices tank, players play hard. The players are trying, and will compete most nights but we lack the talent and roster balance to win most nights. The fornt office will not bring in players like Bledsoe who could help us get a few more wins but bury us in -no-mans-land in the draft. The head coach needs the security to play the rooks, let them improve and take their lumps in the process so that we still will secure a top pick. thats how you tank without tanking so to speak..

Yep, you nailed it but your right the coach needs to be reassured he won't be penalized for the young players learning on the job. Trying to win with this roster is ridiculous. I'm hoping we lose a **** crap load of games get Porter or Doncic and not mention the word tank and Knicks again for at least a decade

I cant root against my team to lose but our roster says we will lose a ton and I've accepted that. So, I dont get too pissed when we lose, as long as I see the yoots play and improve. Porter and Bagely are my top two choices...Bagley has the ability to impact the game on both ends of the court and his skill set is desperately needed on this roster...He would be a great consolation prize if we miss on Porter..

Jmpasq
Posts: 22786
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 4/10/2012
Member: #4182

10/29/2017  8:35 PM
Uptown wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:
Uptown wrote:Front offices tank, players play hard. The players are trying, and will compete most nights but we lack the talent and roster balance to win most nights. The fornt office will not bring in players like Bledsoe who could help us get a few more wins but bury us in -no-mans-land in the draft. The head coach needs the security to play the rooks, let them improve and take their lumps in the process so that we still will secure a top pick. thats how you tank without tanking so to speak..

Yep, you nailed it but your right the coach needs to be reassured he won't be penalized for the young players learning on the job. Trying to win with this roster is ridiculous. I'm hoping we lose a **** crap load of games get Porter or Doncic and not mention the word tank and Knicks again for at least a decade

I cant root against my team to lose but our roster says we will lose a ton and I've accepted that. So, I dont get too pissed when we lose, as long as I see the yoots play and improve. Porter and Bagely are my top two choices...Bagley has the ability to impact the game on both ends of the court and his skill set is desperately needed on this roster...He would be a great consolation prize if we miss on Porter..


I don't think we will be bad enough after this year to get the difference maker we need. I think this is the last time we will be in the top 10
Check out My NFL Draft Prospect Videos at Youtube User Pages Jmpasq,JPdraftjedi,Jmpasqdraftjedi. www.Draftbreakdown.com
SupremeCommander
Posts: 31791
Alba Posts: 35
Joined: 4/28/2006
Member: #1127

10/29/2017  10:15 PM
Jmpasq wrote:
Uptown wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:
Uptown wrote:Front offices tank, players play hard. The players are trying, and will compete most nights but we lack the talent and roster balance to win most nights. The fornt office will not bring in players like Bledsoe who could help us get a few more wins but bury us in -no-mans-land in the draft. The head coach needs the security to play the rooks, let them improve and take their lumps in the process so that we still will secure a top pick. thats how you tank without tanking so to speak..

Yep, you nailed it but your right the coach needs to be reassured he won't be penalized for the young players learning on the job. Trying to win with this roster is ridiculous. I'm hoping we lose a **** crap load of games get Porter or Doncic and not mention the word tank and Knicks again for at least a decade

I cant root against my team to lose but our roster says we will lose a ton and I've accepted that. So, I dont get too pissed when we lose, as long as I see the yoots play and improve. Porter and Bagely are my top two choices...Bagley has the ability to impact the game on both ends of the court and his skill set is desperately needed on this roster...He would be a great consolation prize if we miss on Porter..


I don't think we will be bad enough after this year to get the difference maker we need. I think this is the last time we will be in the top 10

I think/hope we get lucky with Doncic the way we did with KP... meaning that Doncic falls simply because he's a foreign player. Teams have gotten burned often enough by drafting foreign players that I think a lot of GMs are scared of getting it wrong, especially when getting it wrong means you're looking for a new job

fishmike said: Yes. Sometimes I confuse the alerts with when your mom calls. BTW she said defensive guards are really important.
jrodmc
Posts: 30601
Alba Posts: 50
Joined: 11/24/2004
Member: #805
USA
10/30/2017  8:52 AM
Tanking suhucks. Resting star players suhucks.

But as long as Pop wins rings, star players will get the flu against bottom of the barrel teams on the road. No matter what the commish says or does to the schedule.

As long as Philly finally manages to become relevant, teams will shoot for 10 wins and ping pong balls. Look how much fun draft night is! And it happens every year! Hope is alsways to be found in the shiny new things!

And as the league possibly goes back to the frozen envelope model that got us Ewing without tanking, the conspiracy theorists and March Madness ratings mavens will hate that as much as some hate tanking.

It's a business. It would be nice to just play the games competitively every night, but there's always the suit and tie chess game going on behind the scenes...

You guys spend a lot of time commenting on the internet?
fishmike
Posts: 47695
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
10/30/2017  9:50 AM
phuck tanking. Knicks should be building off last 2 wins. We are getting better guard play. Have a 19 year old making great passes and finding teammates. We have a 22 year old scorer giving us 30 a game. We have depth. We have size. We need to season guys, make a few good trades and just focus on getting this core of players and what IT needs to grow. 60 losses is not what this group needs to grow. More wins like we just got is what we need
fishmike - Making UltimateKnicks great again
jrodmc
Posts: 30601
Alba Posts: 50
Joined: 11/24/2004
Member: #805
USA
10/31/2017  9:34 AM
Imagine that. More wins. What a concept.
You guys spend a lot of time commenting on the internet?
I hate the idea of tanking

©2001-2012 ultimateknicks.com All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.