[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

Hardaway
Author Thread
nykshaknbake
Posts: 21913
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/15/2003
Member: #492
10/29/2017  9:07 AM
meloshouldgo wrote:
Uptown wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:I have been down on him a lot. What you are saying is he is basically a glorified $9MM / year player
He is not the second option/ game changer he was being made out to be. Its not his fault but based on what we are paying for him he is not very valuable and that is not likely to change. I think he was on the rise sand making the best of his situation, but now he will flounder because outs any unfamiliar situation and he doesnt seem to be flexible or adaptive. May be it will come with time, but players being paid at a certain level are expected to be able to hit the ground running, so far he has not.

Is he overpaid? Of course, but thats on Mills not Hardaway...I think Hardaway is pressing right now...he heard the talk about being overpaid and I think he's trying too hard to hit homeruns to prove the naysayers wrong as opposed to letting the game come to him...He's streaky as well...He will have a stretch where he will look like an allstar at some point too...

This is such a backwards argument. Was he and his agent not involved in asking for 17MM a year? Does it or doesn't it show that they think he is worth that? Why didnt they ask for 25MM per year? Because they didn't think he was worth THAT, right? But they DID think he was worth 17MM per.

I actually said it's NOT his fault on the contract because he didn't sign it by himself. But he sure as hell thinks he is worth it, so I am not holding him to some artificial standard. Now he needs to STFU and show us why he is worth it. This ain't that complicated.


You are basing your argument on assumptions that are silly and without evidence. He thinks he's worth the contract because that's what his agent negotiated and Mills stupidly offered? He's the same player we had as a rookie. The Hawks had a good system for him. Now he's out of that system. This is 100% on Mills for breaking the bank on this. Players will take whatever money they can get. That's universal.
AUTOADVERT
Uptown
Posts: 26286
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 4/1/2008
Member: #1883

10/29/2017  9:34 AM
nyknickzingis wrote:I agree he's trying to take a step as a player.
Needs to relax and play off KP/Kanter/Frank or Jack. Let the other players and offense create open shots and good looks for him.

He's trying to show he can be a Melo replacement.

Jeff needs to reign him in.

Tim needs to see that KP is averaging Melo like 26 points a game. He is the go to scorer. Enes is a load inside. We need a wing who can spot up and make teams pay if they double inside or on KP. We need a wing that can catch and shoot from the corner pocket. We don't need him to be Melo right now. Mills may have paid him like he was going to be a star, but he doesn't need to be one. If he lets the game come to him, he'll average 12-14 points a game easy, on much better shooting.

Agreed that Hardaway is chasing the game as opposed to letting the game find him...However, standing on the wing as a spot up shooter is not working out for this particular teams since we are not seeing any dribble penetration from our guards which would force the defense to sink and leave Hardaway available for a drive and kick...Also, KP, while playing great has been a bit of a black hole and hasn't looked to kick it out much at all....We need to push the tempo more and get out in the open court. And, we need more movement in the half-court, more off the ball screens and rubs similar to what the Hawks ran when Hardaway played there.

Uptown
Posts: 26286
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 4/1/2008
Member: #1883

10/29/2017  9:41 AM
CrushAlot wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
Uptown wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:I have been down on him a lot. What you are saying is he is basically a glorified $9MM / year player
He is not the second option/ game changer he was being made out to be. Its not his fault but based on what we are paying for him he is not very valuable and that is not likely to change. I think he was on the rise sand making the best of his situation, but now he will flounder because outs any unfamiliar situation and he doesnt seem to be flexible or adaptive. May be it will come with time, but players being paid at a certain level are expected to be able to hit the ground running, so far he has not.

Is he overpaid? Of course, but thats on Mills not Hardaway...I think Hardaway is pressing right now...he heard the talk about being overpaid and I think he's trying too hard to hit homeruns to prove the naysayers wrong as opposed to letting the game come to him...He's streaky as well...He will have a stretch where he will look like an allstar at some point too...

This is such a backwards argument. Was he and his agent not involved in asking for 17MM a year? Does it or doesn't it show that they think he is worth that? Why didnt they ask for 25MM per year? Because they didn't think he was worth THAT, right? But they DID think he was worth 17MM per.

I actually said it's NOT his fault on the contract because he didn't sign it by himself. But he sure as hell thinks he is worth it, so I am not holding him to some artificial standard. Now he needs to STFU and show us why he is worth it. This ain't that complicated.


He was a restricted free agent. The Knicks had to offer money the Hawks wouldn't match. the Knicks overpaid but you do that for restricted free agents. This wasn't a Lin/Asik poison pill deal where the player knew that the team he payed for couldnt match because of the cap consequences. Speculation at the time of the signing was that Mills was trying to show Dolan thst he was competent and a mover and shaker. This deal is on Mills. Reports were that the Hawks were going to offer Tim 45 mil. Hardaway was offered a 75 mil deal and the Hawks could have matched. How is this on Tim?

Agreed...Mills and the Knicks set the market for Hardaway. What was Hardaway supposed to say, "No, I'm not worth 71 mil, so I aint signing. I will take 40 mil, thank you." Last year, Mike Conley signed the richest contract in NBA history at the time. Was he the best player in the league?! Hell no! But he would have to be an idiot not to sign....

Hardaways contract is on Mills as he was trying to prevent the Hawks from matching. Its that simple...I

Nalod
Posts: 54091
Alba Posts: 151
Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
10/29/2017  10:13 AM
4 games into a 4 year contract pegs his value?
Anger sells, don't buy!
CrushAlot
Posts: 55267
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/25/2003
Member: #452
USA
10/29/2017  10:27 AM
Nalod wrote:4 games into a 4 year contract pegs his value?
Uptown posted some great stuff on the first page of the thread about Hardaway's play in Atlanta. Worth reading. Most of this is in response to a poster mad at Hardaway for signing a deal that pays him 71 mil.

I think we know what we're doing..... Phil Jackson
meloshouldgo
Posts: 24005
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/3/2014
Member: #5801

10/29/2017  10:38 AM
nykshaknbake wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
Uptown wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:I have been down on him a lot. What you are saying is he is basically a glorified $9MM / year player
He is not the second option/ game changer he was being made out to be. Its not his fault but based on what we are paying for him he is not very valuable and that is not likely to change. I think he was on the rise sand making the best of his situation, but now he will flounder because outs any unfamiliar situation and he doesnt seem to be flexible or adaptive. May be it will come with time, but players being paid at a certain level are expected to be able to hit the ground running, so far he has not.

Is he overpaid? Of course, but thats on Mills not Hardaway...I think Hardaway is pressing right now...he heard the talk about being overpaid and I think he's trying too hard to hit homeruns to prove the naysayers wrong as opposed to letting the game come to him...He's streaky as well...He will have a stretch where he will look like an allstar at some point too...

This is such a backwards argument. Was he and his agent not involved in asking for 17MM a year? Does it or doesn't it show that they think he is worth that? Why didnt they ask for 25MM per year? Because they didn't think he was worth THAT, right? But they DID think he was worth 17MM per.

I actually said it's NOT his fault on the contract because he didn't sign it by himself. But he sure as hell thinks he is worth it, so I am not holding him to some artificial standard. Now he needs to STFU and show us why he is worth it. This ain't that complicated.


You are basing your argument on assumptions that are silly and without evidence. He thinks he's worth the contract because that's what his agent negotiated and Mills stupidly offered? He's the same player we had as a rookie. The Hawks had a good system for him. Now he's out of that system. This is 100% on Mills for breaking the bank on this. Players will take whatever money they can get. That's universal.

With you everything is always somebody else' fault, because the "star" player can't do no wrong. If he thinks he is worth 17MM a year regardless of how he got it, he needs too prove that to the rest of the NBA.

The only things that trickle down are wages and horse shit
meloshouldgo
Posts: 24005
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/3/2014
Member: #5801

10/29/2017  10:44 AM
Uptown wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
Uptown wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:I have been down on him a lot. What you are saying is he is basically a glorified $9MM / year player
He is not the second option/ game changer he was being made out to be. Its not his fault but based on what we are paying for him he is not very valuable and that is not likely to change. I think he was on the rise sand making the best of his situation, but now he will flounder because outs any unfamiliar situation and he doesnt seem to be flexible or adaptive. May be it will come with time, but players being paid at a certain level are expected to be able to hit the ground running, so far he has not.

Is he overpaid? Of course, but thats on Mills not Hardaway...I think Hardaway is pressing right now...he heard the talk about being overpaid and I think he's trying too hard to hit homeruns to prove the naysayers wrong as opposed to letting the game come to him...He's streaky as well...He will have a stretch where he will look like an allstar at some point too...

This is such a backwards argument. Was he and his agent not involved in asking for 17MM a year? Does it or doesn't it show that they think he is worth that? Why didnt they ask for 25MM per year? Because they didn't think he was worth THAT, right? But they DID think he was worth 17MM per.

I actually said it's NOT his fault on the contract because he didn't sign it by himself. But he sure as hell thinks he is worth it, so I am not holding him to some artificial standard. Now he needs to STFU and show us why he is worth it. This ain't that complicated.


He was a restricted free agent. The Knicks had to offer money the Hawks wouldn't match. the Knicks overpaid but you do that for restricted free agents. This wasn't a Lin/Asik poison pill deal where the player knew that the team he payed for couldnt match because of the cap consequences. Speculation at the time of the signing was that Mills was trying to show Dolan thst he was competent and a mover and shaker. This deal is on Mills. Reports were that the Hawks were going to offer Tim 45 mil. Hardaway was offered a 75 mil deal and the Hawks could have matched. How is this on Tim?

Agreed...Mills and the Knicks set the market for Hardaway. What was Hardaway supposed to say, "No, I'm not worth 71 mil, so I aint signing. I will take 40 mil, thank you." Last year, Mike Conley signed the richest contract in NBA history at the time. Was he the best player in the league?! Hell no! But he would have to be an idiot not to sign....

Hardaways contract is on Mills as he was trying to prevent the Hawks from matching. Its that simple...I

The deal is on Mills. That is not the point. I said its not his fault that he got that money
I also said of he thinks he is worth that money he needs tho prove it. Blaming Mills is a homer fan's way of rationalizing why itd ok for him to suck at both ends of the ball. And that's literally what you guys are doing. He is either worth what he is making it he is not. So far he is most definitely not and he isn't playing like he is trying to prove that he is.

The only things that trickle down are wages and horse shit
nykshaknbake
Posts: 21913
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/15/2003
Member: #492
10/29/2017  12:48 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/29/2017  12:49 PM
meloshouldgo wrote:
nykshaknbake wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
Uptown wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:I have been down on him a lot. What you are saying is he is basically a glorified $9MM / year player
He is not the second option/ game changer he was being made out to be. Its not his fault but based on what we are paying for him he is not very valuable and that is not likely to change. I think he was on the rise sand making the best of his situation, but now he will flounder because outs any unfamiliar situation and he doesnt seem to be flexible or adaptive. May be it will come with time, but players being paid at a certain level are expected to be able to hit the ground running, so far he has not.

Is he overpaid? Of course, but thats on Mills not Hardaway...I think Hardaway is pressing right now...he heard the talk about being overpaid and I think he's trying too hard to hit homeruns to prove the naysayers wrong as opposed to letting the game come to him...He's streaky as well...He will have a stretch where he will look like an allstar at some point too...

This is such a backwards argument. Was he and his agent not involved in asking for 17MM a year? Does it or doesn't it show that they think he is worth that? Why didnt they ask for 25MM per year? Because they didn't think he was worth THAT, right? But they DID think he was worth 17MM per.

I actually said it's NOT his fault on the contract because he didn't sign it by himself. But he sure as hell thinks he is worth it, so I am not holding him to some artificial standard. Now he needs to STFU and show us why he is worth it. This ain't that complicated.


You are basing your argument on assumptions that are silly and without evidence. He thinks he's worth the contract because that's what his agent negotiated and Mills stupidly offered? He's the same player we had as a rookie. The Hawks had a good system for him. Now he's out of that system. This is 100% on Mills for breaking the bank on this. Players will take whatever money they can get. That's universal.

With you everything is always somebody else' fault, because the "star" player can't do no wrong. If he thinks he is worth 17MM a year regardless of how he got it, he needs too prove that to the rest of the NBA.

That's just stupid. I'm sure he knows he's not worth 17 million. You just replied to my post with more begging the question. And no, I think Hardaway sucks and we shouldn't have signed him. I hate his game and think his contract is an albatross. So not a star. You're one of those people that think automatically paying someone a higher salary magically boosts their play(ala Scott Layden and Steve Mills).

Jmpasq
Posts: 22800
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 4/10/2012
Member: #4182

10/29/2017  4:57 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
Nalod wrote:4 games into a 4 year contract pegs his value?
Uptown posted some great stuff on the first page of the thread about Hardaway's play in Atlanta. Worth reading. Most of this is in response to a poster mad at Hardaway for signing a deal that pays him 71 mil.

He is probably worth 12 a year the Hawks I think its possible Hawks would of matched 15, the trade kicker was insane though
Check out My NFL Draft Prospect Videos at Youtube User Pages Jmpasq,JPdraftjedi,Jmpasqdraftjedi. www.Draftbreakdown.com
TPercy
Posts: 24644
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 2/5/2014
Member: #5748

10/29/2017  5:39 PM
Caseloads wrote:
SkyWalker wrote:Did anyone read a quote from hardaway that he hurt his ankle in preseason? I bet that has something to do with it.

Sit hardaway then. Let him get to 100. Play Lee at SG and let Lance hold down SF. The defense will go up.

You clearly arn't watching our games if you think Hardaway isn't playing defense or in'tup to par with Courtney Lee

The Future is Bright!
Hardaway

©2001-2012 ultimateknicks.com All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.