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Our true rebuilding will start...
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Knixkik
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10/26/2017  2:30 PM
NYKBocker wrote:To rebuild you need to put a stake in the ground. You can't keep moving the starting line. KP, Frank, Willy and Dotson is the core. You work from there. If it fails in 3-4 years then reset again but if you keep resetting after a few games then what do you have?

Exactly. I would argue that KP, Frank, and Hardaway are the core because they are the only 3 viewed definitely as long-term starters, although Willy and Dotson should both be major pieces going forward as well. But your point is correct, you can't keep shaking things up. Need to stick with established core and build chemistry with them and fit pieces alongside them. It needs to be a multi-year process before thinking about major changes.

AUTOADVERT
HofstraBBall
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10/26/2017  2:32 PM
newyorker4ever wrote:
nyk2017 wrote:when we trade Porzingis. Perry should go to him sometime this year and offer him max contract. If he hesitates or say no, I say we wait till the lottery positions are set and trade him to either Boston (for Tatum and 1st rd pick) or Philly (Fulz and 1st round pick). That way we will have 4 lottery picks from 2 straight drafts and true rebuilding process can begin. It makes the THJr bust and Noah bust more palatable. Boston or Philly can have a core of three proven great players that are young and we can have something to look forward to in 3 years. In 3 years both THJr and Noah's contract will be off the books and we can add veterans that will better fit with the young core.

I would have him on the market right now and take the best offer we get. I just posted about this in another thread that i'm as big a KP fan as there is but i don't think he's the #1 piece on a championship team or the guy that could take us there. I think we can build a better young team without KP and with what we can get for him. We could build around Frank, Willy, Dotson and even THJ. I would first try to trade THJ or even try to make the team that trades for KP to take him as well but if we can't trade THJ then i really don't have a problem keeping him cause if we trade KP then we will be in a true rebuild which would take as long as the 4 years that THJ is signed for.

I love you KP but the Knicks would be better off with our rebuild if they were doing it without you.

Hmmm. WHAT?? So let's give up the first extremely talented young player we have had since Ewing to build around two guys that have uetbto play a game, a guy currently on the bench and a guy who you Would also want to be traded if possible??

Sigh...now I know the type of reasoning that I was up against on other threads.

How about we then trade the guys we get for KP so that we have more guys to trade?

Melo Haters = Lin lovers who are mad Houston paid so much for his 15 Minutes,
HofstraBBall
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10/26/2017  2:36 PM
jskinny35 wrote:Just to stir the pot... would KP for 2 solid young players make sense? Instead of 1 unicorn we get 2 quality young players to add to our talentless pool? Not sure we should do it, but trying to make the point that everyone is available at a price. Should we put all our eggs in his basket or spread them out? The PHX one would make me strongly consider it...

KP for J.Jackson and M.Chriss?

KP for Zach LaVine and Lauri M and future pick?

KP and player for Harrison Barnes and Nerlens Noel?

Just to stir the pot, what if you won Powerball and Jessica Beal decided to leave JT for you?

Melo Haters = Lin lovers who are mad Houston paid so much for his 15 Minutes,
Knickoftime
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10/26/2017  2:37 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
jskinny35 wrote:Just to stir the pot... would KP for 2 solid young players make sense? Instead of 1 unicorn we get 2 quality young players to add to our talentless pool? Not sure we should do it, but trying to make the point that everyone is available at a price. Should we put all our eggs in his basket or spread them out? The PHX one would make me strongly consider it...

KP for J.Jackson and M.Chriss?

KP for Zach LaVine and Lauri M and future pick?

KP and player for Harrison Barnes and Nerlens Noel?

Just to stir the pot, what if you won Powerball and Jessica Beal decided to leave JT for you?

Although it's just a fantasy I still think it's important to spell her name right!!!!!!

Respect.

HofstraBBall
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10/26/2017  2:45 PM
Knickoftime wrote:
newyorker4ever wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
jskinny35 wrote:Just to stir the pot... would KP for 2 solid young players make sense? Instead of 1 unicorn we get 2 quality young players to add to our talentless pool? Not sure we should do it, but trying to make the point that everyone is available at a price. Should we put all our eggs in his basket or spread them out? The PHX one would make me strongly consider it...

KP for J.Jackson and M.Chriss?

KP for Zach LaVine and Lauri M and future pick?

KP and player for Harrison Barnes and Nerlens Noel?

To answer someone's previous question, the reason this is a topic today because he's coming off of a bad game. There's 79 games to play and 22-yo KP's third season. I think it's only logical to defer this entire topic until June.

Or the rest of us can have fun talking about it and you can just include yourself in June?? As i said, i love KP and am his biggest fan and have been since we drafted him but the Knicks as a franchise comes first for me and i think with the right return for KP we could put together a better young team but it has to be the right return or i obviously wouldn't make the trade. I have no problem keeping KP and re-signing him but KP does come with some negatives about him and his game and i'm not sure he's the #1 piece on a championship team. He's easily a #2 piece just not a #1 piece IMO. The injury concerns are there for a kid as tall and lanky as he is, i don't see much of an inside game from him because he's still not strong enough to go up against these bigger guys, he's too slow top guard most PF's and too weak to guard the centers. There's no way that these things can't be concerns for any of you guys cause they're all realistic concerns.

If the question is, should the next trade KP if they're guaranteed to get a better return, the answer is of course yes. There really is a much a of discussion to be had about that, is there?

What the return might be and IF it will be better than KP seems to be the subject ripe for discussion.

And on that note, you just punched a LOT of holes in KP's game. So the better question is why are you expecting this huge return despite all the red flags you think are realistic concerns.

This reads to me like a classic message board argument that we all know his flaws, other teams don't, so we'll get a king's ransom and laugh all the way to the bank while KP never becomes that superstar the other team expects him to be.

How some fans do not understand that the biggest flaw of the concept of trading, your newly declared, franchise player is not that a better return may be had but rather that a change of direction, after just 4 games, is dysfunction at its highest form.

Melo Haters = Lin lovers who are mad Houston paid so much for his 15 Minutes,
Nalod
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10/26/2017  2:53 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
jskinny35 wrote:Just to stir the pot... would KP for 2 solid young players make sense? Instead of 1 unicorn we get 2 quality young players to add to our talentless pool? Not sure we should do it, but trying to make the point that everyone is available at a price. Should we put all our eggs in his basket or spread them out? The PHX one would make me strongly consider it...

KP for J.Jackson and M.Chriss?

KP for Zach LaVine and Lauri M and future pick?

KP and player for Harrison Barnes and Nerlens Noel?

Just to stir the pot, what if you won Powerball and Jessica Beal decided to leave JT for you?

Trading KP is Premature.
Making love to Mrs. Biel would likely have a premature ending too.

Patience and experience is valuable in both scenarios.

Anger sells, don't buy!
knicks1248
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10/26/2017  3:53 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
newyorker4ever wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
jskinny35 wrote:Just to stir the pot... would KP for 2 solid young players make sense? Instead of 1 unicorn we get 2 quality young players to add to our talentless pool? Not sure we should do it, but trying to make the point that everyone is available at a price. Should we put all our eggs in his basket or spread them out? The PHX one would make me strongly consider it...

KP for J.Jackson and M.Chriss?

KP for Zach LaVine and Lauri M and future pick?

KP and player for Harrison Barnes and Nerlens Noel?

To answer someone's previous question, the reason this is a topic today because he's coming off of a bad game. There's 79 games to play and 22-yo KP's third season. I think it's only logical to defer this entire topic until June.

Or the rest of us can have fun talking about it and you can just include yourself in June?? As i said, i love KP and am his biggest fan and have been since we drafted him but the Knicks as a franchise comes first for me and i think with the right return for KP we could put together a better young team but it has to be the right return or i obviously wouldn't make the trade. I have no problem keeping KP and re-signing him but KP does come with some negatives about him and his game and i'm not sure he's the #1 piece on a championship team. He's easily a #2 piece just not a #1 piece IMO. The injury concerns are there for a kid as tall and lanky as he is, i don't see much of an inside game from him because he's still not strong enough to go up against these bigger guys, he's too slow top guard most PF's and too weak to guard the centers. There's no way that these things can't be concerns for any of you guys cause they're all realistic concerns.

If the question is, should the next trade KP if they're guaranteed to get a better return, the answer is of course yes. There really is a much a of discussion to be had about that, is there?

What the return might be and IF it will be better than KP seems to be the subject ripe for discussion.

And on that note, you just punched a LOT of holes in KP's game. So the better question is why are you expecting this huge return despite all the red flags you think are realistic concerns.

This reads to me like a classic message board argument that we all know his flaws, other teams don't, so we'll get a king's ransom and laugh all the way to the bank while KP never becomes that superstar the other team expects him to be.

How some fans do not understand that the biggest flaw of the concept of trading, your newly declared, franchise player is not that a better return may be had but rather that a change of direction, after just 4 games, is dysfunction at its highest form.

+1

The dysfunction will remain until mills is gone. This is our 3rd rebuild in 4 yrs. 17 wins, entire new roster, 32 wins, entire new roster, 31 wins, primarily the same roster, but now were rebuilding.

your suppose to be able to flush the roster down the toilet like walsh did and start fresh with cap space and a couple of draft picks.

Almost the entire roster is signed through next season and we have just one 1st rnd pick..How is that a rebuild when 75% of your roster are vets

ES
Knickoftime
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10/26/2017  4:36 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
newyorker4ever wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
jskinny35 wrote:Just to stir the pot... would KP for 2 solid young players make sense? Instead of 1 unicorn we get 2 quality young players to add to our talentless pool? Not sure we should do it, but trying to make the point that everyone is available at a price. Should we put all our eggs in his basket or spread them out? The PHX one would make me strongly consider it...

KP for J.Jackson and M.Chriss?

KP for Zach LaVine and Lauri M and future pick?

KP and player for Harrison Barnes and Nerlens Noel?

To answer someone's previous question, the reason this is a topic today because he's coming off of a bad game. There's 79 games to play and 22-yo KP's third season. I think it's only logical to defer this entire topic until June.

Or the rest of us can have fun talking about it and you can just include yourself in June?? As i said, i love KP and am his biggest fan and have been since we drafted him but the Knicks as a franchise comes first for me and i think with the right return for KP we could put together a better young team but it has to be the right return or i obviously wouldn't make the trade. I have no problem keeping KP and re-signing him but KP does come with some negatives about him and his game and i'm not sure he's the #1 piece on a championship team. He's easily a #2 piece just not a #1 piece IMO. The injury concerns are there for a kid as tall and lanky as he is, i don't see much of an inside game from him because he's still not strong enough to go up against these bigger guys, he's too slow top guard most PF's and too weak to guard the centers. There's no way that these things can't be concerns for any of you guys cause they're all realistic concerns.

If the question is, should the next trade KP if they're guaranteed to get a better return, the answer is of course yes. There really is a much a of discussion to be had about that, is there?

What the return might be and IF it will be better than KP seems to be the subject ripe for discussion.

And on that note, you just punched a LOT of holes in KP's game. So the better question is why are you expecting this huge return despite all the red flags you think are realistic concerns.

This reads to me like a classic message board argument that we all know his flaws, other teams don't, so we'll get a king's ransom and laugh all the way to the bank while KP never becomes that superstar the other team expects him to be.

How some fans do not understand that the biggest flaw of the concept of trading, your newly declared, franchise player is not that a better return may be had but rather that a change of direction, after just 4 games, is dysfunction at its highest form.

+1

The dysfunction will remain until mills is gone. This is our 3rd rebuild in 4 yrs. 17 wins, entire new roster, 32 wins, entire new roster, 31 wins, primarily the same roster, but now were rebuilding.

your suppose to be able to flush the roster down the toilet like walsh did and start fresh with cap space and a couple of draft picks.

Almost the entire roster is signed through next season and we have just one 1st rnd pick..How is that a rebuild when 75% of your roster are vets

It'll be sloooow... but a year or 2 faster than if they tried to "win" this season.

newyorknewyork
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10/26/2017  5:30 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
newyorker4ever wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
jskinny35 wrote:Just to stir the pot... would KP for 2 solid young players make sense? Instead of 1 unicorn we get 2 quality young players to add to our talentless pool? Not sure we should do it, but trying to make the point that everyone is available at a price. Should we put all our eggs in his basket or spread them out? The PHX one would make me strongly consider it...

KP for J.Jackson and M.Chriss?

KP for Zach LaVine and Lauri M and future pick?

KP and player for Harrison Barnes and Nerlens Noel?

To answer someone's previous question, the reason this is a topic today because he's coming off of a bad game. There's 79 games to play and 22-yo KP's third season. I think it's only logical to defer this entire topic until June.

Or the rest of us can have fun talking about it and you can just include yourself in June?? As i said, i love KP and am his biggest fan and have been since we drafted him but the Knicks as a franchise comes first for me and i think with the right return for KP we could put together a better young team but it has to be the right return or i obviously wouldn't make the trade. I have no problem keeping KP and re-signing him but KP does come with some negatives about him and his game and i'm not sure he's the #1 piece on a championship team. He's easily a #2 piece just not a #1 piece IMO. The injury concerns are there for a kid as tall and lanky as he is, i don't see much of an inside game from him because he's still not strong enough to go up against these bigger guys, he's too slow top guard most PF's and too weak to guard the centers. There's no way that these things can't be concerns for any of you guys cause they're all realistic concerns.

If the question is, should the next trade KP if they're guaranteed to get a better return, the answer is of course yes. There really is a much a of discussion to be had about that, is there?

What the return might be and IF it will be better than KP seems to be the subject ripe for discussion.

And on that note, you just punched a LOT of holes in KP's game. So the better question is why are you expecting this huge return despite all the red flags you think are realistic concerns.

This reads to me like a classic message board argument that we all know his flaws, other teams don't, so we'll get a king's ransom and laugh all the way to the bank while KP never becomes that superstar the other team expects him to be.

How some fans do not understand that the biggest flaw of the concept of trading, your newly declared, franchise player is not that a better return may be had but rather that a change of direction, after just 4 games, is dysfunction at its highest form.

+1

The dysfunction will remain until mills is gone. This is our 3rd rebuild in 4 yrs. 17 wins, entire new roster, 32 wins, entire new roster, 31 wins, primarily the same roster, but now were rebuilding.

your suppose to be able to flush the roster down the toilet like walsh did and start fresh with cap space and a couple of draft picks.

Almost the entire roster is signed through next season and we have just one 1st rnd pick..How is that a rebuild when 75% of your roster are vets

Phil tried to win now, that's what pretty much what got him in trouble. Trading Tyson for Jose, reupping Melo, signing Noah & Lee.

Regardless, Knicks will have their lotto pick this coming draft. If Kanter and KOQ opt out they are looking at 30 mil in cap space. If they can acquire 2 impact players with that while balancing the roster. Would be a giant step in the right direction.

meloshouldgo
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10/26/2017  6:33 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/26/2017  6:34 PM
Knixkik wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:To rebuild you need to put a stake in the ground. You can't keep moving the starting line. KP, Frank, Willy and Dotson is the core. You work from there. If it fails in 3-4 years then reset again but if you keep resetting after a few games then what do you have?

Exactly. I would argue that KP, Frank, and Hardaway are the core because they are the only 3 viewed definitely as long-term starters, although Willy and Dotson should both be major pieces going forward as well. But your point is correct, you can't keep shaking things up. Need to stick with established core and build chemistry with them and fit pieces alongside them. It needs to be a multi-year process before thinking about major changes.

This is good thread, because it tries to push the envelope. I get the traditional POV and why people are uncomfortable with trading KP. People are programmed to resist change and right now KP is the centerpiece of all things Knicks in the minds of most fans. But I think it's important to have an open mind because the best opportunities may not present themselves along traditional lines.

You called KP, Frank and THJR the established core. I don't think they have established anything at all. The last two have two total games as a Knick between themselves in the current iteration. I honestly think we should continue to stockpile assets that fit the two-way tram first player model. We have hit the reset button, let's at least see what comes off it. We don't need to declare a "core" now. We need to let one evolve organically from the best fitting pieces we can find. This whole love affair with future "all stars" is hours teams screw themselves in a rebuild.

The only things that trickle down are wages and horse shit
HofstraBBall
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10/26/2017  6:57 PM
Knickoftime wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
newyorker4ever wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
jskinny35 wrote:Just to stir the pot... would KP for 2 solid young players make sense? Instead of 1 unicorn we get 2 quality young players to add to our talentless pool? Not sure we should do it, but trying to make the point that everyone is available at a price. Should we put all our eggs in his basket or spread them out? The PHX one would make me strongly consider it...

KP for J.Jackson and M.Chriss?

KP for Zach LaVine and Lauri M and future pick?

KP and player for Harrison Barnes and Nerlens Noel?

To answer someone's previous question, the reason this is a topic today because he's coming off of a bad game. There's 79 games to play and 22-yo KP's third season. I think it's only logical to defer this entire topic until June.

Or the rest of us can have fun talking about it and you can just include yourself in June?? As i said, i love KP and am his biggest fan and have been since we drafted him but the Knicks as a franchise comes first for me and i think with the right return for KP we could put together a better young team but it has to be the right return or i obviously wouldn't make the trade. I have no problem keeping KP and re-signing him but KP does come with some negatives about him and his game and i'm not sure he's the #1 piece on a championship team. He's easily a #2 piece just not a #1 piece IMO. The injury concerns are there for a kid as tall and lanky as he is, i don't see much of an inside game from him because he's still not strong enough to go up against these bigger guys, he's too slow top guard most PF's and too weak to guard the centers. There's no way that these things can't be concerns for any of you guys cause they're all realistic concerns.

If the question is, should the next trade KP if they're guaranteed to get a better return, the answer is of course yes. There really is a much a of discussion to be had about that, is there?

What the return might be and IF it will be better than KP seems to be the subject ripe for discussion.

And on that note, you just punched a LOT of holes in KP's game. So the better question is why are you expecting this huge return despite all the red flags you think are realistic concerns.

This reads to me like a classic message board argument that we all know his flaws, other teams don't, so we'll get a king's ransom and laugh all the way to the bank while KP never becomes that superstar the other team expects him to be.

How some fans do not understand that the biggest flaw of the concept of trading, your newly declared, franchise player is not that a better return may be had but rather that a change of direction, after just 4 games, is dysfunction at its highest form.

+1

The dysfunction will remain until mills is gone. This is our 3rd rebuild in 4 yrs. 17 wins, entire new roster, 32 wins, entire new roster, 31 wins, primarily the same roster, but now were rebuilding.

your suppose to be able to flush the roster down the toilet like walsh did and start fresh with cap space and a couple of draft picks.

Almost the entire roster is signed through next season and we have just one 1st rnd pick..How is that a rebuild when 75% of your roster are vets

It'll be sloooow... but a year or 2 faster than if they tried to "win" this season.

A year or 2 faster to what exactly?

Melo Haters = Lin lovers who are mad Houston paid so much for his 15 Minutes,
Jmpasq
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10/27/2017  7:47 AM
HofstraBBall wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
newyorker4ever wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
jskinny35 wrote:Just to stir the pot... would KP for 2 solid young players make sense? Instead of 1 unicorn we get 2 quality young players to add to our talentless pool? Not sure we should do it, but trying to make the point that everyone is available at a price. Should we put all our eggs in his basket or spread them out? The PHX one would make me strongly consider it...

KP for J.Jackson and M.Chriss?

KP for Zach LaVine and Lauri M and future pick?

KP and player for Harrison Barnes and Nerlens Noel?

To answer someone's previous question, the reason this is a topic today because he's coming off of a bad game. There's 79 games to play and 22-yo KP's third season. I think it's only logical to defer this entire topic until June.

Or the rest of us can have fun talking about it and you can just include yourself in June?? As i said, i love KP and am his biggest fan and have been since we drafted him but the Knicks as a franchise comes first for me and i think with the right return for KP we could put together a better young team but it has to be the right return or i obviously wouldn't make the trade. I have no problem keeping KP and re-signing him but KP does come with some negatives about him and his game and i'm not sure he's the #1 piece on a championship team. He's easily a #2 piece just not a #1 piece IMO. The injury concerns are there for a kid as tall and lanky as he is, i don't see much of an inside game from him because he's still not strong enough to go up against these bigger guys, he's too slow top guard most PF's and too weak to guard the centers. There's no way that these things can't be concerns for any of you guys cause they're all realistic concerns.

If the question is, should the next trade KP if they're guaranteed to get a better return, the answer is of course yes. There really is a much a of discussion to be had about that, is there?

What the return might be and IF it will be better than KP seems to be the subject ripe for discussion.

And on that note, you just punched a LOT of holes in KP's game. So the better question is why are you expecting this huge return despite all the red flags you think are realistic concerns.

This reads to me like a classic message board argument that we all know his flaws, other teams don't, so we'll get a king's ransom and laugh all the way to the bank while KP never becomes that superstar the other team expects him to be.

How some fans do not understand that the biggest flaw of the concept of trading, your newly declared, franchise player is not that a better return may be had but rather that a change of direction, after just 4 games, is dysfunction at its highest form.


Keeping KP is fine but building a winner around him will be impossible because of all the other bad decisions the FO has made. You know how hard it will be to build a true contender once KP gets a max deal? Its not about KP necessarily but all the other dumb moves that have already destroyed his timeline. There was no reason to give Hardaway that deal, especially when you already have useless Noah. You can absorb one awful deal but 2 long-term cap crushing deals? No one is signing here in Free agency so the best way to build is through the draft. The best way to build through the draft is getting a core of 5-6 players in a 4 year span. Its to bad the last regime robbed all of the draft picks because we would probably have enough pieces to trade for help or at least be further along by now. In my opinion unless we get extremely lucky and ger Porter or Doncic we probably need to go the nuclear option. Be horrible until Hardaway and Noah are gone gain as many assets as possible which will be hard to do because we are capped out. We should of took on a bad contract from the Lakers to get Russel but this organization has no forward thinking whatsoever.
Check out My NFL Draft Prospect Videos at Youtube User Pages Jmpasq,JPdraftjedi,Jmpasqdraftjedi. www.Draftbreakdown.com
knicks1248
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10/27/2017  8:50 AM
Jmpasq wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
newyorker4ever wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
jskinny35 wrote:Just to stir the pot... would KP for 2 solid young players make sense? Instead of 1 unicorn we get 2 quality young players to add to our talentless pool? Not sure we should do it, but trying to make the point that everyone is available at a price. Should we put all our eggs in his basket or spread them out? The PHX one would make me strongly consider it...

KP for J.Jackson and M.Chriss?

KP for Zach LaVine and Lauri M and future pick?

KP and player for Harrison Barnes and Nerlens Noel?

To answer someone's previous question, the reason this is a topic today because he's coming off of a bad game. There's 79 games to play and 22-yo KP's third season. I think it's only logical to defer this entire topic until June.

Or the rest of us can have fun talking about it and you can just include yourself in June?? As i said, i love KP and am his biggest fan and have been since we drafted him but the Knicks as a franchise comes first for me and i think with the right return for KP we could put together a better young team but it has to be the right return or i obviously wouldn't make the trade. I have no problem keeping KP and re-signing him but KP does come with some negatives about him and his game and i'm not sure he's the #1 piece on a championship team. He's easily a #2 piece just not a #1 piece IMO. The injury concerns are there for a kid as tall and lanky as he is, i don't see much of an inside game from him because he's still not strong enough to go up against these bigger guys, he's too slow top guard most PF's and too weak to guard the centers. There's no way that these things can't be concerns for any of you guys cause they're all realistic concerns.

If the question is, should the next trade KP if they're guaranteed to get a better return, the answer is of course yes. There really is a much a of discussion to be had about that, is there?

What the return might be and IF it will be better than KP seems to be the subject ripe for discussion.

And on that note, you just punched a LOT of holes in KP's game. So the better question is why are you expecting this huge return despite all the red flags you think are realistic concerns.

This reads to me like a classic message board argument that we all know his flaws, other teams don't, so we'll get a king's ransom and laugh all the way to the bank while KP never becomes that superstar the other team expects him to be.

How some fans do not understand that the biggest flaw of the concept of trading, your newly declared, franchise player is not that a better return may be had but rather that a change of direction, after just 4 games, is dysfunction at its highest form.


Keeping KP is fine but building a winner around him will be impossible because of all the other bad decisions the FO has made. You know how hard it will be to build a true contender once KP gets a max deal? Its not about KP necessarily but all the other dumb moves that have already destroyed his timeline. There was no reason to give Hardaway that deal, especially when you already have useless Noah. You can absorb one awful deal but 2 long-term cap crushing deals? No one is signing here in Free agency so the best way to build is through the draft. The best way to build through the draft is getting a core of 5-6 players in a 4 year span. Its to bad the last regime robbed all of the draft picks because we would probably have enough pieces to trade for help or at least be further along by now. In my opinion unless we get extremely lucky and ger Porter or Doncic we probably need to go the nuclear option. Be horrible until Hardaway and Noah are gone gain as many assets as possible which will be hard to do because we are capped out. We should of took on a bad contract from the Lakers to get Russel but this organization has no forward thinking whatsoever.

4 yrs, waiting for lottery picks are you kidding me..smh..why not just hire a scout to run the franchise if that's the case.

Like I keep saying, walsh took 1 1/2 yrs to get rid of some of the worst contracts the knicks every had, and that roster was 10x worse. He manage to keep all the young guys, and got amare, and we were playoff bound with a solid young core, until the melo trade.

ES
meloshouldgo
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10/27/2017  10:04 AM    LAST EDITED: 10/27/2017  10:33 AM
Switching from building a team around Melo to building a team around KP is NOT a rebuild. Its going from starfukkA to starfukkB. This is why we need to stop trying to build teams around people and demand they start playing basketball the right way. We weren't able to build teams around Ewing, Houston, Marbury, Amare, Melo ...
At some point it should sink in that this is a STUPID approach.
The only things that trickle down are wages and horse shit
NYKBocker
Posts: 35368
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10/27/2017  10:20 AM
meloshouldgo wrote:Switching from building a team around Melo to building a team around KP is NOT a rebuild. Its going from starfukkA to starfukkB. This is why we need tho stop trying tho build teams around people and demand they start plaguing basketball the right way. We weren't able to build teams around Ewing, Houston, Marbury, Amare, Melo ...
At some point out should sink in that this is a STUPID approach.

You need to start somewhere. You start with the best player you can find then go from them. KP is the starting point.

knicks1248
Posts: 36273
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10/27/2017  10:30 AM
meloshouldgo wrote:Switching from building a team around Melo to building a team around KP is NOT a rebuild. Its going from starfukkA to starfukkB. This is why we need tho stop trying tho build teams around people and demand they start plaguing basketball the right way. We weren't able to build teams around Ewing, Houston, Marbury, Amare, Melo ...
At some point out should sink in that this is a STUPID approach.

your going to always be building around someone, young or old, it's a matter of putting the right players and coaching staff in place.

You can't have a clueless owner and president on deck, and think the culture is going to change, when they are the exact reason were in this state.

ES
fishmike
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10/27/2017  10:34 AM
Jmpasq wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
newyorker4ever wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
jskinny35 wrote:Just to stir the pot... would KP for 2 solid young players make sense? Instead of 1 unicorn we get 2 quality young players to add to our talentless pool? Not sure we should do it, but trying to make the point that everyone is available at a price. Should we put all our eggs in his basket or spread them out? The PHX one would make me strongly consider it...

KP for J.Jackson and M.Chriss?

KP for Zach LaVine and Lauri M and future pick?

KP and player for Harrison Barnes and Nerlens Noel?

To answer someone's previous question, the reason this is a topic today because he's coming off of a bad game. There's 79 games to play and 22-yo KP's third season. I think it's only logical to defer this entire topic until June.

Or the rest of us can have fun talking about it and you can just include yourself in June?? As i said, i love KP and am his biggest fan and have been since we drafted him but the Knicks as a franchise comes first for me and i think with the right return for KP we could put together a better young team but it has to be the right return or i obviously wouldn't make the trade. I have no problem keeping KP and re-signing him but KP does come with some negatives about him and his game and i'm not sure he's the #1 piece on a championship team. He's easily a #2 piece just not a #1 piece IMO. The injury concerns are there for a kid as tall and lanky as he is, i don't see much of an inside game from him because he's still not strong enough to go up against these bigger guys, he's too slow top guard most PF's and too weak to guard the centers. There's no way that these things can't be concerns for any of you guys cause they're all realistic concerns.

If the question is, should the next trade KP if they're guaranteed to get a better return, the answer is of course yes. There really is a much a of discussion to be had about that, is there?

What the return might be and IF it will be better than KP seems to be the subject ripe for discussion.

And on that note, you just punched a LOT of holes in KP's game. So the better question is why are you expecting this huge return despite all the red flags you think are realistic concerns.

This reads to me like a classic message board argument that we all know his flaws, other teams don't, so we'll get a king's ransom and laugh all the way to the bank while KP never becomes that superstar the other team expects him to be.

How some fans do not understand that the biggest flaw of the concept of trading, your newly declared, franchise player is not that a better return may be had but rather that a change of direction, after just 4 games, is dysfunction at its highest form.


Keeping KP is fine but building a winner around him will be impossible because of all the other bad decisions the FO has made. You know how hard it will be to build a true contender once KP gets a max deal? Its not about KP necessarily but all the other dumb moves that have already destroyed his timeline. There was no reason to give Hardaway that deal, especially when you already have useless Noah. You can absorb one awful deal but 2 long-term cap crushing deals? No one is signing here in Free agency so the best way to build is through the draft. The best way to build through the draft is getting a core of 5-6 players in a 4 year span. Its to bad the last regime robbed all of the draft picks because we would probably have enough pieces to trade for help or at least be further along by now. In my opinion unless we get extremely lucky and ger Porter or Doncic we probably need to go the nuclear option. Be horrible until Hardaway and Noah are gone gain as many assets as possible which will be hard to do because we are capped out. We should of took on a bad contract from the Lakers to get Russel but this organization has no forward thinking whatsoever.
name the trade. 1248 said this also. Who on the Knicks had a huge expiring contract like Brook Lopez to use in such a trade? Can you name that asset? You constantly cry about stuff on this board and call out the Knicks FO for being stupid for nothing making trades with assets they dont have.

Come deadline you make have a point... McD and KOQ are both expiring (KOQ has a PO). Knicks will at least have some pieces to work with.

The trade KP talk is just stupid. Only time you entertain that is after he signs his extension, is here for a few years, has 2 years left and the Knicks are simply terrible, then maybe you reboot and restart. Knicks should be able to do better than that.

fishmike - Making UltimateKnicks great again
meloshouldgo
Posts: 23947
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10/27/2017  10:39 AM
NYKBocker wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:Switching from building a team around Melo to building a team around KP is NOT a rebuild. Its going from starfukkA to starfukkB. This is why we need tho stop trying tho build teams around people and demand they start plaguing basketball the right way. We weren't able to build teams around Ewing, Houston, Marbury, Amare, Melo ...
At some point out should sink in that this is a STUPID approach.

You need to start somewhere. You start with the best player you can find then go from them. KP is the starting point.

We have had lots of different starting points and we are yet to get started. How about we just rethink the approach? Do we really need to keep doing the same **** and expect different results?

The only things that trickle down are wages and horse shit
NYKBocker
Posts: 35368
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10/27/2017  10:49 AM
meloshouldgo wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:Switching from building a team around Melo to building a team around KP is NOT a rebuild. Its going from starfukkA to starfukkB. This is why we need tho stop trying tho build teams around people and demand they start plaguing basketball the right way. We weren't able to build teams around Ewing, Houston, Marbury, Amare, Melo ...
At some point out should sink in that this is a STUPID approach.

You need to start somewhere. You start with the best player you can find then go from them. KP is the starting point.

We have had lots of different starting points and we are yet to get started. How about we just rethink the approach? Do we really need to keep doing the same **** and expect different results?

Building anything starts with a foundation. The approach is that you need to decide what foundation you want to lay down. Knicks has decided that KP is this foundation along with Frank and hopefully Willy. Unless there is another way of building anything then this is the only way to go.

I mean...what approach do you think we should be doing?

meloshouldgo
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10/27/2017  11:46 AM    LAST EDITED: 10/27/2017  11:50 AM
NYKBocker wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:Switching from building a team around Melo to building a team around KP is NOT a rebuild. Its going from starfukkA to starfukkB. This is why we need tho stop trying tho build teams around people and demand they start plaguing basketball the right way. We weren't able to build teams around Ewing, Houston, Marbury, Amare, Melo ...
At some point out should sink in that this is a STUPID approach.

You need to start somewhere. You start with the best player you can find then go from them. KP is the starting point.

We have had lots of different starting points and we are yet to get started. How about we just rethink the approach? Do we really need to keep doing the same **** and expect different results?

Building anything starts with a foundation. The approach is that you need to decide what foundation you want to lay down. Knicks has decided that KP is this foundation along with Frank and hopefully Willy. Unless there is another way of building anything then this is the only way to go.

I mean...what approach do you think we should be doing?

The approach we need to use is NOT DECIDING on a core till the team actually evolves into one. I love KP and I think he will be a great player, but it's not a sure thing and the so called "core" is completely unproven. To act like that is a settled matter and then justify trades based on it is what is wrong with the approach. Keep your options open till you have a confirmed winner, then think about building around it. No need to commit to "future potential" because if it doesn't pan out, you have wasted another 10 years. I am not saying we shouldn't offer KP a max contract if he deserves it, I am saying we shouldn't start justifying trades assuming he is enough of a core for a championship team. He is FAR from showing that, Melo etc. NEVER showed that. And no you don't need to win a chip to decide you have a confirmed winner. You need to be a legitimate playoff team 2-3 years in a row with flexibility and room tho grow. Look at the Bucks etc.

The only things that trickle down are wages and horse shit
Our true rebuilding will start...

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