reub wrote:Where can we get more triangle guards like Frank?

When Frank can show that he can take it to the rim, he wont be a Triangle guard. Thank God.

reub wrote:Where can we get more triangle guards like Frank?

What, you mean smart guards who know where to be on the court, where other players should be on the, court and can shoot? Like Ron Harper? Derek Fisher? Pete Myers? John Paxson? All of those players are so similar. Are they triangle guards as well?

nixluva wrote:The Knicks are still running Some Triangle and some Triangle Elements with an overload on one side and 2 Man game on the other. It's pretty much what I expected given the fact that they have so many Bigs. They've run Horns sparingly and not very successfully. It's still a work in progress but it looked much better with Jack and Ntilikina running the show.

Nix. Can we get past this narrative that we are "Still" running the triangle. Every aspect of the triangle is in every scheme in basketball. Inside cuts, outside cuts, pinch post, weave hand off, ball reversal etc. We all know that what most of us are talking about is that we are NO LONGER running the Phil Jackson Knicks Triangle that has failed under the direction of DF, Rambo and JH. But the most important thing, for me, is that all our basketball player decisions will no longer be made catering to the Triangle.

nixluva wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

nixluva wrote:The Knicks are still running Some Triangle and some Triangle Elements with an overload on one side and 2 Man game on the other. It's pretty much what I expected given the fact that they have so many Bigs. They've run Horns sparingly and not very successfully. It's still a work in progress but it looked much better with Jack and Ntilikina running the show.

Nix. Can we get past this narrative that we are "Still" running the triangle. Every aspect of the triangle is in every scheme in basketball. Inside cuts, outside cuts, pinch post, weave hand off, ball reversal etc. We all know that what most of us are talking about is that we are NO LONGER running the Phil Jackson Knicks Triangle that has failed under the direction of DF, Rambo and JH. But the most important thing, for me, is that all our basketball player decisions will no longer be made catering to the Triangle.

It's not a narrative if they are actually still running Triangle and elements of the system. We know they were working on it to some extent since SL and Training Camp. Jeff did his Hybrid Triangle thing last year and he's still using a lot of that stuff but just added some new stuff to it.

WTF is Phil Jackson's Knicks Triangle? When did we really use the full Triangle System? I think there's this MYTH that the Knicks were actually running tons of Triangle last year when in fact they were not. The Knicks really never did go 100% on Triangle and last year they most definitely weren't. I'm only pointing out that they're still using Triangle and principles of the system that are not so obvious to most cuz it's not Side Triangle.

People still think that the Side Triangle was the entire offense when it never was. They don't even know all the other elements of the SYSTEM beyond side triangle. The difference is that they aren't focusing on all the Rules, Automatics and Reads of the Triangle but they're still using many of the plays! More so than an average NBA team does.

The reason is that the Knicks have a ton of BIGS and that style actually fits how they play. Just cuz no one is calling it Triangle doesn't mean they're not still using it quite a bit. This is a more diverse offense overall but it's got a ton of Triangle Elements all over it.

WTF was Phil's Triangle? Think we both know what that was. Or do I have to pull out the tape from the Derek Fisher years where the opposing teams were waiting at the spot Knicks players would eventually end up on. It was painful to watch. Dont know if you remember, but when JH was being interviewed for the job he told the press that after Phil explained to him the different aspects of the Triangle he admitted he did not realize he was already doing many parts of it in his own offense. Translation - many of the same aspects are in EVERY offense. We are not talking food recipies here.

BTW. What aspects are we running that are only unique to the Triangle? Curious. Maybe I am missing something. I already metioned several aspects above that are in all offeses, including the Triangle.

And again, I am happy that personnel decision will no longer be based solely on the Triangle and that we are not building around an antiquated system.

I believe in science. I don't believe that when Newtons died, we should have thrown away physics just because he was so damn smart that he was only one knowing the truth at the time. People just went on. If Phil was bad at his position, how about asking him to be a advisor? or "super coach"? the coach of other coaches? NO, we just fired him. We should have sucked his brain dry but we just fired him.

And, you said players didn't like triangle. It was just bull**** local media wanted to give you to eat. Think about that, If you were Lance Thomas, you wouldn't want triangle? If you were Sasha, you wouldn't want it? Baker? Why wouldn't role players like it? They are so limited and they wouldn't have a better job otherwise. There were the best positions they could be in, and they didn't like it? It just didn't make sense.

The only one who didn't like it is the one who actually can score on his own. D. Rose probably didn't like it, but do you care? KP said he thought the team should have run it from the start, so it was not him.

Melo didn't like it, and local media are all his friends, so you heard that. That is why.

I don't see Melo as a bad person, but why would a star player like a system that would limit his output? If triangle can win then it is all good. But how about I give up my pts but the team still loses? Melo didn't buy in and it is understandable.

This is probably the true reason no one wanted to copy this system even in 90s or 2000s. The star players didn't want it. It is not that it didn't work. It is just that the system is against capitalism. Share the wealth? come on.

When I said triangle is not the reason, I don't look at it like I am a priest of triangle church. I look at it like I look at science. It is not perfect, but it is something we can work on. Do you throw away modern medicines just because they can't cure cancer?

I do not worship triangle, just like I do not worship science. I think this is where people got it wrong. People took it like it was magic, and we were disappointed when it didn't work. we angrily claims "It is fake!"

I always move on, as people do not want to. We need an excuse for Melo (and his failure). So triangle must be shi t, and Phil Jackson must be the worst pre ever. (but thanks for KP, Willy, Frank and draft picks and bright future and Gaines and...did I mention he is the worst prez ever?? )

GustavBahler wrote:Sounded like a question, not an answer.

Only one man succesfully ran this sytem in the NBA. He had the inventor of this system as his wing man. None of the coach's on Jackson's tree could do anything with this system in today's NBA. The players didn't like it, the coach couldnt teach it, the assistant coach who had many years of this system under his belt couldnt teach it.

So when I keep hearing about a great system that absolutely no one can succesfully replicate, I wonder if posters like yourself are paying attention. Looking back when they should be looking forward. The Triangle as a system is dead and buried in the NBA. Get over it. The only thing that upsets me is still hearing about a system that is worthless in today's game. You can spend this season reliving the non-existent glory years of the Knicks and the Triangle if you want. Tired of talking about this subject. Its over, move on. Thats what Im doing.

mlby1215 wrote:Did I say 2011?

And there was only two head coaches who actually ran it on their own, right? You can say only Phil Jackson doing it successfully or only Rambis doing it unsuccessfully. Which one do you want to take? Like it won it 11 champs times or it couldn't help some lottery teams to be good teams? Don't you think teams should never shoot 3pt again because bad teams shoot 3pts and failed?

Yeah, it wasted time. Hopefully we will never shoot 3pts again because it will not help us make to playoff and it will waste our time to play that way? Why run? you will lose. Why doing transaction defense? You still lose. Why pick-and-roll? You still can't make to playoff that way.

What system would help the team make to playoff in 14/15? People still want to find an excuse for the losing. There is a whole lot of reasons a team can lose and if you need to a reason, how about doing it starting from the players? or the coaches? or the environment? And maybe you should think about why it won 11 champs in 20 years? Our team was so bad and first thing you would think about is the system which actually had run many times successfully?

No one will run triangle, and as Phil is going to die and triangle will die with him. No one try to hold it up or something. But look it back, you really think triangle had hold the team back or the team didn't know how to do it?

50 years later. people will remember how the mysterious triangle system could not help that Knicks team getting back to playoff. Even though it won 11 champions with Phil Jackson.

Yeah, right?

I can understand your anger, but the failure is not related to triangle. It is just a way for the media to attack Knicks and/or Phil Jackson. Show some respect to the history of NBA. I do not think we will see another person who could win 11 champions in our lifetimes.

GustavBahler wrote:Cant answer the question can you? Cant tell me the last time ANYONE was succesful running the Triangle as a system? The last time anyone not named Phil Jackson (with the inventor of the Triangle sitting right next to him) did anything in this league with it? Don't care how many times they ran it. Plenty of time was spent trying to get it down. Wasted time.

I can tell you the last time teams did all the things you cited, successfully. Its called the playoffs.

Give it up. The Triangle is gone, as Hofstra said, watch some old youtube videos if you get sentimental. Better than more crapola about a system that did absolutely nothing for this franchise.

mlby1215 wrote:2011?

No offense, but tell me too when the team has failed with 3pt, fast pace, and pick-and-roll? Every year. Which bad team wanted or wants to play "slow"? They always say they emphasize defense or pace or 3pt or something something, but they didn't make it work. They suck, because the teams are bad, not because what they say or try.

There is a video trying to analyze some games of last season. We just did 5% of triangle on average every games. It was not surprised, as Jeff didn't know triangle.

I mean, it is very easy to blame on triangle because local media told you so. But which playoff team actually has used it? From the day Phil Jackson won his first champion to now (27 years?) , there is NONE. Twolf and Knicks tried to use it but they were very bad teams. No one knows if it works because no one uses it. The reason is beyond basketball. It is about business and politics. Alpha stars would not like it because it forces them to share the ball and lower their score, ans score is equal to money.

But again, we are the true detective of NBA. Everything we tried but failed, then that thing must be shi t. Somewhere, Kerr must be very relieved that we didn't try his "system", otherwise we would prove that he only won just because he has Curry, Green, KD and Klay. He only merely won 2 champs. It doesn't mean anything. Even 11 champs doesn't mean anything.

GustavBahler wrote:

mlby1215 wrote:I am ready to blame the pick-and-roll and 3pt very soon. Knicks tried! but it doesn't work!! 3pt is too outdated! passing is useless!! Of course GSW can play that way because they have KD and Curry!! Just like MJ, Kobe and Shaq!! Knicks has proved and will continue to prove how outdated and unless of every "winning" system.

Please tell me when was the last time the Triangle has been run succesfully in this league as a system. The last time a team made it to the playoffs running the Triangle. Blame yourself for not paying attention.

HofstraBBall wrote:

nixluva wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

nixluva wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

nixluva wrote:The Knicks are still running Some Triangle and some Triangle Elements with an overload on one side and 2 Man game on the other. It's pretty much what I expected given the fact that they have so many Bigs. They've run Horns sparingly and not very successfully. It's still a work in progress but it looked much better with Jack and Ntilikina running the show.

Nix. Can we get past this narrative that we are "Still" running the triangle. Every aspect of the triangle is in every scheme in basketball. Inside cuts, outside cuts, pinch post, weave hand off, ball reversal etc. We all know that what most of us are talking about is that we are NO LONGER running the Phil Jackson Knicks Triangle that has failed under the direction of DF, Rambo and JH. But the most important thing, for me, is that all our basketball player decisions will no longer be made catering to the Triangle.

It's not a narrative if they are actually still running Triangle and elements of the system. We know they were working on it to some extent since SL and Training Camp. Jeff did his Hybrid Triangle thing last year and he's still using a lot of that stuff but just added some new stuff to it.

WTF is Phil Jackson's Knicks Triangle? When did we really use the full Triangle System? I think there's this MYTH that the Knicks were actually running tons of Triangle last year when in fact they were not. The Knicks really never did go 100% on Triangle and last year they most definitely weren't. I'm only pointing out that they're still using Triangle and principles of the system that are not so obvious to most cuz it's not Side Triangle.

People still think that the Side Triangle was the entire offense when it never was. They don't even know all the other elements of the SYSTEM beyond side triangle. The difference is that they aren't focusing on all the Rules, Automatics and Reads of the Triangle but they're still using many of the plays! More so than an average NBA team does.

The reason is that the Knicks have a ton of BIGS and that style actually fits how they play. Just cuz no one is calling it Triangle doesn't mean they're not still using it quite a bit. This is a more diverse offense overall but it's got a ton of Triangle Elements all over it.

WTF was Phil's Triangle? Think we both know what that was. Or do I have to pull out the tape from the Derek Fisher years where the opposing teams were waiting at the spot Knicks players would eventually end up on. It was painful to watch. Dont know if you remember, but when JH was being interviewed for the job he told the press that after Phil explained to him the different aspects of the Triangle he admitted he did not realize he was already doing many parts of it in his own offense. Translation - many of the same aspects are in EVERY offense. We are not talking food recipies here.

BTW. What aspects are we running that are only unique to the Triangle? Curious. Maybe I am missing something. I already metioned several aspects above that are in all offeses, including the Triangle.

And again, I am happy that personnel decision will no longer be based solely on the Triangle and that we are not building around an antiquated system.

You had to go all the way back to Fisher! The point i'm making is that Jeff had already moved away from a pure form of Triangle. Even when Phil asked for more Triangle they still didn't even reach 50% Triangle the rest of the way. I'm not disagreeing with you that Triangle has a lot of stuff you see in other basic offenses. The thing is we KNOW that this team was running some Triangle last year and that they worked on some again this year. Jeff just doesn't like the STIGMA of saying Triangle cuz people take it the wrong way.

Knicks begin a new era, but the Triangle offense remains in place

Steve Popper, Staff Writer, @stevepopper Published 1:56 p.m. ET Sept. 26, 2017 | Updated 5:45 p.m. ET Sept. 26, 2017

GREENBURGH, N.Y. — And on the first day, Jeff Hornacek said let there be triangle.

Phil Jackson was kicking back in Montana. Carmelo Anthony, hoodie in place, is in Oklahoma City. But at the team’s training facility as the Knicks gathered for the first practice session, the legacy remained in place.

With Hornacek back and Kurt Rambis still in place as associate head coach the Knicks hope to accelerate the pace of the offense, but the system that Jackson brought to New York has been left in place.

“From the first practice that we did now, we actually had some stuff from the triangle,” Kristaps Porzingis said. "So we’ll see going forward what we’re going to do. But I saw some elements from the triangle.

“It’s always good to know an offense that has worked in the past and it’s always good for everybody, even if we’re not playing it. Just to know, maybe some other teams use elements from that offense. To defend that better or even just for yourself, basketball IQ. We worked on it a little bit today and probably going forward we’re going to do some things with the triangle. I think it’s going to be good for everybody to know that.”

That may raise groans from the Knicks fan base and even from some players, and perhaps a sigh of relief from Anthony, pleased to be done with the system that Jackson tried so hard to force into place, crediting the system rather than Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant.

Even from the shell drills the team was running in the morning it was evident that Hornacek does hope to shift to a fast-paced attack, akin to what he ran in Phoenix. He downplayed the half-court use of the triangle as he did last year as just another system.

“I mean you guys asked that all of last year,” he said. “Those are basketball actions, you know. If you’re going to throw the ball into the post guy and run some split action and you guys want to call it Triangle, that’s basketball, so, yeah, there’s some of that we ran last year. But that’s again, that’s just basketball stuff.”

http://www.northjersey.com/story/sports/nba/knicks/2017/09/26/knicks-begin-new-era-but-triangle-offense-remains-place/704699001/

Think we are agreeing on most. Maybe i am just looking to put that behind us. Btw here is a good video on some of the schemes we are using.

Yes this is a video I’ve also posted several times. Good stuff. Last night the Knicks ran some very good off ball motion. It was VERY effective at keeping the Cavs from being able to help. The constant motion had the Cavs chasing and unable to easily give help. Also the Knicks had more Early Offense rather than slow it down just to set up. Cavs D just never got set on many scoring plays.

HofstraBBall wrote:Hmmmm....

http://nypost.com/2017/11/14/knicks-are-loving-their-offense-without-phil-jackson/

Yeah I get that the notion is that they aren't running Triangle but really they NEVER ran a lot of Side Triangle even last year. Never even got to 50% Triangle last year. Most of last year Jeff started the offense with Early Spread PnR. The entire time Jeff has been working mostly his own stuff more so than Triangle and now he's doing it even more but still they are running stuff in the half court that's full of Off Ball Motion not that different from Triangle Actions. It's all semantics at this point.

HofstraBBall wrote:

nixluva wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:Hmmmm....

http://nypost.com/2017/11/14/knicks-are-loving-their-offense-without-phil-jackson/

Yeah I get that the notion is that they aren't running Triangle but really they NEVER ran a lot of Side Triangle even last year. Never even got to 50% Triangle last year. Most of last year Jeff started the offense with Early Spread PnR. The entire time Jeff has been working mostly his own stuff more so than Triangle and now he's doing it even more but still they are running stuff in the half court that's full of Off Ball Motion not that different from Triangle Actions. It's all semantics at this point.

So they didnt run the Triangle last year? And what we run now is basically the same? WRONG. That slow, old man offense they ran last year was indeed the Phil forced antiquated piece of **** TRIANGLE! REASON why we SUCKED!! And NO ONE was happy playing it. In case you missed JH saying this: “We’re not running the stuff we did last year with the mix of plays,’’ said Hornacek, whose club is off to a surprising 7-6 start and playing host to Utah on Wednesday. “Our guys are feeling comfortable with what we’re running. We’re going to get better at that. It’s a style most of those guys like to play

The only semnatic/real meaning here is that EVERYONE that thought we are still running that piece of **** offense was WRONG!!

There was a better article on this topic. Had more details and quotes from KP from the Michael Kay show. Said similar things.

The history and timelines maintains the same. When Fisher came in, we didn't run full Tri. Team was at 500. Melo was playing like Dadmelo, No word from Phil Jackson. Melo injures himself on ref. The losses start piling up. After the losses pile up and Fisher gets fired for various reasons on and off court. Rambis takes the active head coaching duties and installs full triangle.

Phil goes on coaching search, brings in Jeff Hornacek to modernize the triangle. Knicks didn't run full triangle. There is video evidence that someone took the time to create to solidify the viewpoint.

Knicks play 500. then the wheels fall off. Losses start mounting. Phil then wants to install more triangle to get the structure back to the offense. Which they do with Baker running the point and actually pull of some decent games with no talent and everyone injured hurting our tank chances.

Do you really believe that Rose and Melo's style of ball would fit with how this team has played so far this season? You forget that Melo played for MDA as well who may be the father of modern ball. That didn't work out to well for either side. Melo style is that of a slower pace with him getting ISO and holding the ball, jab stepping etc... Its why he and MDA could get on the same page.

Oh yea and Rambis is still here...

newyorknewyork wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

nixluva wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:Hmmmm....

http://nypost.com/2017/11/14/knicks-are-loving-their-offense-without-phil-jackson/

Yeah I get that the notion is that they aren't running Triangle but really they NEVER ran a lot of Side Triangle even last year. Never even got to 50% Triangle last year. Most of last year Jeff started the offense with Early Spread PnR. The entire time Jeff has been working mostly his own stuff more so than Triangle and now he's doing it even more but still they are running stuff in the half court that's full of Off Ball Motion not that different from Triangle Actions. It's all semantics at this point.

So they didnt run the Triangle last year? And what we run now is basically the same? WRONG. That slow, old man offense they ran last year was indeed the Phil forced antiquated piece of **** TRIANGLE! REASON why we SUCKED!! And NO ONE was happy playing it. In case you missed JH saying this: “We’re not running the stuff we did last year with the mix of plays,’’ said Hornacek, whose club is off to a surprising 7-6 start and playing host to Utah on Wednesday. “Our guys are feeling comfortable with what we’re running. We’re going to get better at that. It’s a style most of those guys like to play

The only semnatic/real meaning here is that EVERYONE that thought we are still running that piece of **** offense was WRONG!!

There was a better article on this topic. Had more details and quotes from KP from the Michael Kay show. Said similar things.

The history and timelines maintains the same. When Fisher came in, we didn't run full Tri. Team was at 500. Melo was playing like Dadmelo, No word from Phil Jackson. Melo injures himself on ref. The losses start piling up. After the losses pile up and Fisher gets fired for various reasons on and off court. Rambis takes the active head coaching duties and installs full triangle.

Phil goes on coaching search, brings in Jeff Hornacek to modernize the triangle. Knicks didn't run full triangle. There is video evidence that someone took the time to create to solidify the viewpoint.

(Example if you avoid watching the video. 10 plays run out of the triangle out of 108 half court sets for a game. Another game had 5 plays run out of the triangle out of 104 half court possessions)

Knicks play 500. then the wheels fall off. Losses start mounting. Phil then wants to install more triangle to get the structure back to the offense. Which they do with Baker running the point and actually pull of some decent games with no talent and everyone injured hurting our tank chances.

Do you really believe that Rose and Melo's style of ball would fit with how this team has played so far this season? You forget that Melo played for MDA as well who may be the father of modern ball. That didn't work out to well for either side. Melo style is that of a slower pace with him getting ISO and holding the ball, jab stepping etc... Its why he and MDA could get on the same page.

Oh yea and Rambis is still here...

This is all great filler. I love the way guys bring up all this BS and think people never actually watched the games. You have to be kidding. Endless slow down to get everyone in their position, specially at end of games and you bring up this BS? Nah.

Btw. The main reason we are having moderate success is that, as JH said it, we are no longer running the Triangle. The main reason KP is having such a good year is because WE ARE NO LONGER running the TRiangle! Add small things like having a deeper team. Not guys named Saha or Baker as main guys off the bench. KP is not three point happy and finally posting up. Your right though, Rose was a terrible PG. Something extremely needed here in the last few years. You add Jack and Melo's and KP's number go up. And keep in mind, if you claim Melo took away from KP more than the Triangle, why is he doing so well with Timmy? Who does not exactly enhance KP's looks. Or with Kanter, who is a black post up hole. But since you bring up Melo inference, the trade was great, so far. Mcbuckets and Kanter have been a big reason why we have had success. But I think you bring those guys over and Phil is still throwing the Triangle down their throats and we would still suck.

HofstraBBall wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

nixluva wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:Hmmmm....

http://nypost.com/2017/11/14/knicks-are-loving-their-offense-without-phil-jackson/

Yeah I get that the notion is that they aren't running Triangle but really they NEVER ran a lot of Side Triangle even last year. Never even got to 50% Triangle last year. Most of last year Jeff started the offense with Early Spread PnR. The entire time Jeff has been working mostly his own stuff more so than Triangle and now he's doing it even more but still they are running stuff in the half court that's full of Off Ball Motion not that different from Triangle Actions. It's all semantics at this point.

So they didnt run the Triangle last year? And what we run now is basically the same? WRONG. That slow, old man offense they ran last year was indeed the Phil forced antiquated piece of **** TRIANGLE! REASON why we SUCKED!! And NO ONE was happy playing it. In case you missed JH saying this: “We’re not running the stuff we did last year with the mix of plays,’’ said Hornacek, whose club is off to a surprising 7-6 start and playing host to Utah on Wednesday. “Our guys are feeling comfortable with what we’re running. We’re going to get better at that. It’s a style most of those guys like to play

The only semnatic/real meaning here is that EVERYONE that thought we are still running that piece of **** offense was WRONG!!

There was a better article on this topic. Had more details and quotes from KP from the Michael Kay show. Said similar things.

The history and timelines maintains the same. When Fisher came in, we didn't run full Tri. Team was at 500. Melo was playing like Dadmelo, No word from Phil Jackson. Melo injures himself on ref. The losses start piling up. After the losses pile up and Fisher gets fired for various reasons on and off court. Rambis takes the active head coaching duties and installs full triangle.

Phil goes on coaching search, brings in Jeff Hornacek to modernize the triangle. Knicks didn't run full triangle. There is video evidence that someone took the time to create to solidify the viewpoint.

(Example if you avoid watching the video. 10 plays run out of the triangle out of 108 half court sets for a game. Another game had 5 plays run out of the triangle out of 104 half court possessions)

Knicks play 500. then the wheels fall off. Losses start mounting. Phil then wants to install more triangle to get the structure back to the offense. Which they do with Baker running the point and actually pull of some decent games with no talent and everyone injured hurting our tank chances.

Do you really believe that Rose and Melo's style of ball would fit with how this team has played so far this season? You forget that Melo played for MDA as well who may be the father of modern ball. That didn't work out to well for either side. Melo style is that of a slower pace with him getting ISO and holding the ball, jab stepping etc... Its why he and MDA could get on the same page.

Oh yea and Rambis is still here...

This is all great filler. I love the way guys bring up all this BS and think people never actually watched the games. You have to be kidding. Endless slow down to get everyone in their position, specially at end of games and you bring up this BS? Nah.

Btw. The main reason we are having moderate success is that, as JH said it, we are no longer running the Triangle. The main reason KP is having such a good year is because WE ARE NO LONGER running the TRiangle! Add small things like having a deeper team. Not guys named Saha or Baker as main guys off the bench. KP is not three point happy and finally posting up. Your right though, Rose was a terrible PG. Something extremely needed here in the last few years. You add Jack and Melo's and KP's number go up. And keep in mind, if you claim Melo took away from KP more than the Triangle, why is he doing so well with Timmy? Who does not exactly enhance KP's looks. Or with Kanter, who is a black post up hole. But since you bring up Melo inference, the trade was great, so far. Mcbuckets and Kanter have been a big reason why we have had success. But I think you bring those guys over and Phil is still throwing the Triangle down their throats and we would still suck.

Yea all great filler. Dude breaks 4 games over 400 possessions and highlights each triangle set ran. You simply avoided anything not convienent toward your argument.

During Woodsons 54 wins season we we're 26th in pace at 89.9.
The following yr we were 28th in pace at 90.3
We have been at 91, 93.4, and 96 in pace the last 3 seasons. And are at 96.8 in pace today.

Maybe I missed it but don't remember reading him attributing KPs individual success on the different offense. Don't feel the triangle effects KP either way. Think it has more affect on the guards. KP is a yr older, his 3rd now in the league and a lot stronger physically and mentally then he was last yr.
Dont think it matter the type of offense when speaking on KP. It more so matters the touches and his development of being able to score at will on smaller players which wasn't always the case. But again that's not convienent towards your argument.

The triangle is outdated because it's a "guards league" and about pace. Yet we continue to truck along old man Jack and a rookie Frank who has limited offensive game.

nixluva wrote:Jeff Hornacek June 2016:

“Maybe we’ll call it the circle offense,’’ Hornacek quipped.

“To me, it’s just a way to space the floor,’’ Hornacek said. “You can run any play you want out of the triangle. It’s just reading basketball. It’s going to be a part of our offense. It’s something that’s worked, won championships.”

In his 2 ½ seasons coaching the Suns, Hornacek embraced a speedball attack and wants to get the Knicks into transition instead of having them fall into half-court triangle sets, which often features throwing the ball into the low post and having players read and react.

“We’re going to run the triangle, but I wouldn’t call it the triangle,’’ Hornacek said. “There’s a lot of aspects of the triangle. It seems to be some foreign word. The court is spaced a different way. We can space it out farther and run some things I did in Phoenix. So there will be aspects of the triangle. It’s basic reads. You can call it the triangle or call it what Golden State runs. There’s the idea we can blend it somehow.’’

Jeff Hornacek October 2016:

Hornacek said when teams are in their halfcourt sets they all run a variation of the triangle. The difference is that most NBA teams get into their offense quicker and that running the triangle exclusively will slow the pace.

“I think that’s where most people are coming from,” Hornacek said. “If you end up being a slowdown team and never end up getting easy buckets and you’re running that halfcourt set all the time… guys, first of all, don’t like to run it.

“But secondly, it makes it very difficult to get easy buckets early in the offense and I think in today’s game those early buckets are nice to get. We’re not running it every time. We’re mixing it here and there. Hopefully, for us it’s a good thing we can do when we need to execute a play on a dead ball that we have something to go to.”

Last season, Derek Fisher began to move away from the triangle and once he was fired and replaced with interim coach Kurt Rambis, the Knicks went back to running the old school offense. Hornacek pledges that Jackson has been hands off:

“Phil’s been great,” Hornacek added. “He’s not trying to take over and make us do anything. He’s giving us the leeway. There are some things that we do that aren’t the triangle stuff; our early stuff that quite honestly we probably thought he’d say ‘let’s not do that, or let’s not do this option.’ But he hasn’t said that at all.

“He’s just trying to give us hints on when we’re in the halfcourt sets. Just how to really execute it. It’s great help.”

Read more at http://www.slamonline.com/news-rumors/other-news/jeff-hornacek-triangle-offense-knicks/#QkQtiOjddJMl5GXB.99

Jeff Hornacek February 2017:

Hornacek said Jackson didn’t play a role in increasing the triangle sets following the break, but acknowledged that he and the team president have discussed it all season.

“We talked all year about finding that balance in what we do in the early offense and getting in the open court and playing that way, and then the amount of triangle that we run,” Hornacek said. “We ran a lot off of dead balls, ran a lot off of dead-ball situations. We just tried to put it in a little bit more so that we have a little more format, again, for the defensive side of it. So that when we don’t get a call and everyone — what was happening a lot was when we came down and we didn’t get a call out from our guards, the guys seemed to look around and wonder what to do. So now when there’s not a call, they should be formatted in that set, and that should help us.”

When Hornacek took over, he was careful to correct anybody who called his offense, ‘the triangle.’ Instead, he made sure it was dubbed, ‘Triangle Aspects,’ so as not to go all in on Jackson’s darling. He also incorporated more pick-and-rolls, much to the delight of Rose, and reserved the triangle for just inbounds plays and plays out of timeouts.

But there was no such correction from Rose on Saturday. The triangle is back. Or, at least, it’s become more of an emphasis again.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/knicks-jeff-hornacek-bring-triangle-offense-back-article-1.2982405

Jeff Hornacek March 2017:

“We talk about it a lot,” Hornacek said. “Different things in the triangle you can do. Sometimes you call them out of timeout plays. That’s some of the things Phil has said. Some plays that maybe he used.
“We’re talking all the time. That came up in one of the discussions, that it does give you better balance. We had guys that were getting stuck in the corner. That was part of it. Even that I don’t know how many possessions in a game, we’re probably still not anywhere close to 50 percent of the time running it.”

http://www.northjersey.com/story/sports/nba/knicks/2017/03/01/kristaps-porzingis-board-knicks-triangle/98585156/

Even after all the drama last year when They focused more on the Triangle they NEVER got up to even 50% Triangle!!! So clearly most of the year the Knicks weren’t running a lot of Triangle.

So what he said while the Triangle guru Prez was signing his check is relevant how? By showing he was smart enough tonsaybthe right things to keep his job? Becayse what he us saying NOW, with no restraints, is not more telling.

And please tell me how a coach having to discuss his offense with the President of operation does not give you a clue of a possible issue? Not the PREZ forcing his coaches to run HIS OLD offense. But yeah, your right, they never ran the Triangle. Our offense was great. And the players are still enjoying and running the **** we were running the kast three years.

Please stop. Our offense the previous three years was a joke. As was Phil's constant control over it. Especially the need to force that piece of **** down players throats. NOT having him here is the biggest reason for our success!