knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Russell Westbrook was Thursday. Kyrie Irving on Tuesday. James Harden on deck for next week. Then, eventually, it's John Wall, Steph Curry, Mike Conley, Kyle Lowry, Dame Lillard, Kemba Walker, etc., etc

It's unquestionably a point guard's league these days, and the Knicks are trotting out a combo of Ramon Sessions and Ron Baker. And, frankly, being overmatched at the position is nothing new for the Knicks. You have to go all the way back to Mark Jackson in 1989 to find their last All-Star point guard.

The drought is remarkable.

How did we not make this a major priority this off season is beyond stupidity, especially knowing frank is about 4 yrs away from being relevant..

nobody to set up our shooters, and nobody to set up the bigs

You've brought this point up several times. And several times people have asked you, what specifically do you think the Knicks should do. You've said nothing most times, the Rondo once or twice.

I'd really like you to go into some actual depth into who specifically you think the Knicks should have gone after, would have actually come here, and how they would actually help this team short term and long term.

A lot of players you think the Knicks should sign would likely have never come here anyway. If they did, it would be a gross overpay in years and AAV.

you will hear crickets. He's great at crying but offers no alternatives. The two guys he harps on are Rose and Rondo, which tells you everything you need to know.

You preferred jack and sessions over rose or rondo, that says a lot about you..

jack and session do nothing good on the court, they're not good defenders, passers, penetrating, they're slow as hell, they can't shoot 2's or 3's, they certainly dont make anyone better, and they can play JH system, so these guys (who certainly will be cut as soon as possible) way passed their prime to do what.

They were better off signing them as part of the coaching staff.

the knicks could have engaged the lakers in trading for Russel, giving them the 8th pick, for their recent #2 pick, through Noah in there for Mosgov..

Mills could have been creative, but he has the negotiating skills of a idiot

So who are the guys? You bitch about every player and every move and every front office person day and day out yet dont seem to have a clue how or why anything works or happens.

SupremeCommander wrote:

martin wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

fishmike wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

fishmike wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

Welpee wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Russell Westbrook was Thursday. Kyrie Irving on Tuesday. James Harden on deck for next week. Then, eventually, it's John Wall, Steph Curry, Mike Conley, Kyle Lowry, Dame Lillard, Kemba Walker, etc., etc

It's unquestionably a point guard's league these days, and the Knicks are trotting out a combo of Ramon Sessions and Ron Baker. And, frankly, being overmatched at the position is nothing new for the Knicks. You have to go all the way back to Mark Jackson in 1989 to find their last All-Star point guard.

The drought is remarkable.

How did we not make this a major priority this off season is beyond stupidity, especially knowing frank is about 4 yrs away from being relevant..

nobody to set up our shooters, and nobody to set up the bigs

Wasn't our lottery pick a PG? How was it not a priority? I also think it was a priority to not overpay for people like Jeff Teague or Jrue Holliday. I hindsight, even though he's injured now, Rondo might have been the move we let pass us by(though I've never been a fan of his).

I don't think anyone but the most delusional fans thought that Frank would get 30 to 35 mpg... that's why the position wasn't a priority. We didn't acquire anyone that would play meaningful minutes THIS season

Out of all of the real options. Collison is the only player who it looks like we missed on. He really sucked pretty bad last yr though. So I could see the hesitation. Hill is being outplayed by Fox while making 20mil a yr. Holiday while making 25 has played very poor so far. Rondo has a herniated disc.

None of them would be here for the long term.

and when that is the case what do you do? The best move, the smart move, the move the Knicks never did in the past is simple. You do nothing. In the past we would have give up a pick and a player to sign and trade Hill for $20mm and declare we got the best guy on the market.

Smart move is do nothing and wait. Maybe we can get Bledsoe for Kanter and or spare parts. That would be the value of waiting and buying low. To me I think that is the deal to make happen.

well then why give THJ $30 to 40 mil more than he deserves?

well thats your opinion not mine. When I look at ALL the recent contracts given to wings I think the Knicks did OK with THJ. Evan Turner, Alan Crabbe, Kent Bazemore, Reddick, Wes Mathews, Jamal Crawford, the pope guy... THJ is right about where the market is. He's like the 15th highest paid guy at his position. He's gotta play better. Its been a really bad 3 games.

okay, well why commit $70 mil to a position if you aren't ready to commit anything to the PG position?

Knicks did just draft a kid at #8, and while not starting material, it is a path forward for that spot.

Was there a PG out there that the Knicks should have committed to long term? Or could have they have given a guy a 1 year overpay rental ala Reddick?

again, to repeat previous comments, Frank could be a stud but anyone expected him to contribute 30 to 35 minutes a game THIS year is off their rocker. The KID played in ~18 mpg in ~30 games

fishmike wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

martin wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

fishmike wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

fishmike wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

Welpee wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Russell Westbrook was Thursday. Kyrie Irving on Tuesday. James Harden on deck for next week. Then, eventually, it's John Wall, Steph Curry, Mike Conley, Kyle Lowry, Dame Lillard, Kemba Walker, etc., etc

It's unquestionably a point guard's league these days, and the Knicks are trotting out a combo of Ramon Sessions and Ron Baker. And, frankly, being overmatched at the position is nothing new for the Knicks. You have to go all the way back to Mark Jackson in 1989 to find their last All-Star point guard.

The drought is remarkable.

How did we not make this a major priority this off season is beyond stupidity, especially knowing frank is about 4 yrs away from being relevant..

nobody to set up our shooters, and nobody to set up the bigs

Wasn't our lottery pick a PG? How was it not a priority? I also think it was a priority to not overpay for people like Jeff Teague or Jrue Holliday. I hindsight, even though he's injured now, Rondo might have been the move we let pass us by(though I've never been a fan of his).

I don't think anyone but the most delusional fans thought that Frank would get 30 to 35 mpg... that's why the position wasn't a priority. We didn't acquire anyone that would play meaningful minutes THIS season

Out of all of the real options. Collison is the only player who it looks like we missed on. He really sucked pretty bad last yr though. So I could see the hesitation. Hill is being outplayed by Fox while making 20mil a yr. Holiday while making 25 has played very poor so far. Rondo has a herniated disc.

None of them would be here for the long term.

and when that is the case what do you do? The best move, the smart move, the move the Knicks never did in the past is simple. You do nothing. In the past we would have give up a pick and a player to sign and trade Hill for $20mm and declare we got the best guy on the market.

Smart move is do nothing and wait. Maybe we can get Bledsoe for Kanter and or spare parts. That would be the value of waiting and buying low. To me I think that is the deal to make happen.

well then why give THJ $30 to 40 mil more than he deserves?

well thats your opinion not mine. When I look at ALL the recent contracts given to wings I think the Knicks did OK with THJ. Evan Turner, Alan Crabbe, Kent Bazemore, Reddick, Wes Mathews, Jamal Crawford, the pope guy... THJ is right about where the market is. He's like the 15th highest paid guy at his position. He's gotta play better. Its been a really bad 3 games.

okay, well why commit $70 mil to a position if you aren't ready to commit anything to the PG position?

Knicks did just draft a kid at #8, and while not starting material, it is a path forward for that spot.

Was there a PG out there that the Knicks should have committed to long term? Or could have they have given a guy a 1 year overpay rental ala Reddick?

again, to repeat previous comments, Frank could be a stud but anyone expected him to contribute 30 to 35 minutes a game THIS year is off their rocker. The KID played in ~18 mpg in ~30 games

what were the options? George Hill for $20? THJ is a better deal there IMO and not 31. Rondo? Bring Rose back? Im glad we didnt make those types of move. So we stink at PG. Open auditions until Frank or whoever else we draft is ready. Its better than more layers of bad moves.

if we are going to punt on a PG we should've punted on THJ. We could have resigned Holliday at a fraction of the price.

if we were going to sign THJ, we should have signed someone who could contribute. I know he got hurt but Milos Teodosic would've gotten my vote. Or we could have drafted someone who was ready to contribute. It's not like those guys don't have upside too

TripleThreat wrote:

Markji wrote:To get Bledsoe, Perry can try to put together a 3 way trade - O'Q and either Lance or CLee to a contender team and or Kuz; they send young players and maybe a pick to Phoenix; we get Bledsoe.

Mirror Test, dude. Seriously, Mirror Test.

Lance Thomas is not even in the current Knicks rotation. Given the struggles the Knicks are having, it's saying a lot. Why would a contender want him or his bad contract? If a team wanted Lee, they would have moved for him in the offseason, but no one wants his Years 3 and 4, when he's a limited player and in decline due to age. He's not a horrible player, but any trade has to be THE BEST OPTION OUT OF ALL OPTIONS, INCLUDING OFFERS FROM 28 OTHER TEAMS.

Would you want to send out Bledsoe, if he was a Knick, for Lance Thomas? Or Thomas and/or Lee? Or both with Kuz? Then why would they.

IF YOU WOULD NOT, WHY WOULD THEY?

I get that trade talk happens in part to just open up discussion. But you have to consider actually putting yourself in the shoes of the non Knicks franchise. No one will make a deal they cannot defend to their owner, their fanbase, the press and their season ticket holders.

Will a contender have better options than Thomas and/or Lee and/or Kuz? Also some of these trades are going 5 for 2. So what will the non Knicks team do? Cut a couple of guys? Cut a couple of guys for guys you'd like to see the Knicks get rid of, that wouldn't even make the Knicks rotation, but they are going to make the rotation of a contender?

Lots of lower tier Western teams are gonna start tanking early. The West is loaded and back end teams are gonna get beat down hard. They are going to be sellers. Some players are gonna get bought out and be minimum vet ring chasers. What's going to be more appealing? A vet ring chaser who has no further commitment after this year, or trading an asset for Lance Thomas, who has more bad years on his deal, and won't even make your rotation?

The Knicks simply do not have the current asset base to go after Bledsoe without gutting their actual core. If Boston or Philly wanted to go after him, that's way different, but they've built their war chest of assets up to have that flexibility.

You are right that Lance and CLee have too many years on their contracts but they are vets who can come off the bench and play good defense. Also CLee shot 40.1% last year from 3 pt. Had 1.1 steals/game; played in 77 games averaging 32 min/game. Those are very good stats for a back-up bench player for a contender. So yeah. A team could go for that depending on their needs.

Fishmike has suggested Kantor straight up for Bledsoe. Could work but Kanter coming off the bench for a contending team is worth more. So I think you need to get a 3rd team involved. And please don't start putting down Kanter. He had 17 rebs and 16 points in the first half yesterday against the Celtics. He is one of the best in the league at offensive rebounding and working offensively in the paint. He has a lot of value.

Basically the possibilities are there, IMO. Perry has to work the phones and see if there can be a fit.

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Russell Westbrook was Thursday. Kyrie Irving on Tuesday. James Harden on deck for next week. Then, eventually, it's John Wall, Steph Curry, Mike Conley, Kyle Lowry, Dame Lillard, Kemba Walker, etc., etc

It's unquestionably a point guard's league these days, and the Knicks are trotting out a combo of Ramon Sessions and Ron Baker. And, frankly, being overmatched at the position is nothing new for the Knicks. You have to go all the way back to Mark Jackson in 1989 to find their last All-Star point guard.

The drought is remarkable.

How did we not make this a major priority this off season is beyond stupidity, especially knowing frank is about 4 yrs away from being relevant..

nobody to set up our shooters, and nobody to set up the bigs

You've brought this point up several times. And several times people have asked you, what specifically do you think the Knicks should do. You've said nothing most times, the Rondo once or twice.

I'd really like you to go into some actual depth into who specifically you think the Knicks should have gone after, would have actually come here, and how they would actually help this team short term and long term.

A lot of players you think the Knicks should sign would likely have never come here anyway. If they did, it would be a gross overpay in years and AAV.

you will hear crickets. He's great at crying but offers no alternatives. The two guys he harps on are Rose and Rondo, which tells you everything you need to know.

You preferred jack and sessions over rose or rondo, that says a lot about you..

jack and session do nothing good on the court, they're not good defenders, passers, penetrating, they're slow as hell, they can't shoot 2's or 3's, they certainly dont make anyone better, and they can play JH system, so these guys (who certainly will be cut as soon as possible) way passed their prime to do what.

They were better off signing them as part of the coaching staff.

the knicks could have engaged the lakers in trading for Russel, giving them the 8th pick, for their recent #2 pick, through Noah in there for Mosgov..

Mills could have been creative, but he has the negotiating skills of a idiot

Right... So this is the problem with you. You make these statements with profound certainty, yet you clearly have no clue what your talking about. The Russell trade was a salary dump. The Lakers are clearing space for a run at Lebrun and PGeorge. If you actually knew the situation you would understand that. Lakers only did the deal to move Mosgov's salary as Lopez comes off the books at year end. So which big expiring salary where the Knicks going to offer? They had none. They lacked what it took to make a trade. See how that works?

So who are the guys? You bitch about every player and every move and every front office person day and day out yet dont seem to have a clue how or why anything works or happens.

The only thing I bitch about is the front office, your the one that wanted everybody phil traded gone, as if that was going to change something, from Amare to tyson, shump, jr, melo .

The only players i ever wanted traded was calderon. I'm usually defending every player knowing that they're not the problem.

The front office has been comedy central bro, the record is so evident, and the revolving door for players, coaches and GMs, and presidents.

5 1/2 yrs, over 100 players, 4 coaches, 3 presidents, 4 losing seasons, and 1 fck boy GM who has been part of it all, and is now running things.

Fish How in the hell do you we not have a pg, cmon on man, thats 101 dude. I have not an ounce of faith in mills to do anything but run this franchise further into the abyss.

I hate mills more than any human being that has ever been associated with this franchise, if i ever seen him i would straight spit in his face.. I have neverseen someone more incompetent than him.

BigDaddyG wrote:

reub wrote:We need to stay patient and understand that Frank is our point guard. It will take him a little time but he will fill that role for a long time for us. Rome wasn't built in a day.

Reggie Miller is right. The fanbase can't stomach a rebuild.

We can but the problem is we have sucked for so long already. SO now we have to sit through four more years of crap. I want to build through the draft but Im frustrated how bad the FO is, I dont trust them

CrushAlot wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

reub wrote:We need to stay patient and understand that Frank is our point guard. It will take him a little time but he will fill that role for a long time for us. Rome wasn't built in a day.

Reggie Miller is right. The fanbase can't stomach a rebuild.

We can but the problem is we have sucked for so long already. SO now we have to sit through four more years of crap. I want to build through the draft but Im frustrated how bad the FO is, I dont trust them

The coaching staff is not good. Maybe Jeff can't overcome last year or he is just a bad cach. Players know he will waffle to management pressure and there was a lot of tension in te locker room last year. I have no idea why a clean sweep wasnt done. I don't see the current staff developing the youngsters. If things don't improve my hope is Gaines is named interim.

I really don’t think it’s got anything to do with tension last year! There are too many new guys for that to be an issue. This is just a bad start. Plain and simple. This team is behind the rest of the league at this point for whatever reasons. Guys being out in Preseason. Short preseason! Slumping players. Lack of chemistry.

Sometimes it just happens and it’s not the coach. The Heat stunk at the start of last season season but got their act together and went on a win streak. Things like that happen. This Knicks team has a lot better ball ahead of them as guys get going. This is a rebuilding team so there should be no panic. Take it one possession, one quarter and one game at a time.