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Knicks too good for top 3 pick
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BRIGGS
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10/22/2017  12:15 AM
Our top players are obviously loaded on the front court but I do not see 5 teams with collectively better 4-5 combos. If we had good guards we’d be good now. The Pistons who I think improved were down 21 points— how many times were we up 21 in the last few years? Actually we were the team down and we came back a lot. We have an advantage in the midddle— it’s not a game based on the middle anymore but it’s still an efficient part of the game which should limit the downside. I’ve kind of done a lot of looking around and while we will lose— this will not be a top 4 lottery team
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wargames
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10/22/2017  12:21 AM
....... no we're going to be bad
Vmart
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10/22/2017  1:04 AM
They lost to a team coming off a back to back at home. You can’t put this game on any one player. But THJ made it easy tonight. If he shows up the Knicks win.
nixluva
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10/22/2017  3:17 AM
wargames wrote:....... no we're going to be bad

Knicks are not as bad as some think. It’s clear that any improvement at Guard would result in wins. There’s a long 80 games to go but it’s not unreasonable to imagine this team being able to improve at the guard spots.

Some of the problem is tactical. They need to be more aggressive using PnR/Drag Screens so our Guards can get more penetration and great angles and open shooters or scoring at the rim.

Solving poor 3rd quarters is a coaching issue IMO. GOTTA change the approach to how they come out for 3rd quarters!!!

Gudris
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10/22/2017  3:23 AM
No we lose first 21 games and start to improve in second part of season
SupremeCommander
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10/22/2017  8:07 AM
nixluva wrote:
wargames wrote:....... no we're going to be bad

Knicks are not as bad as some think. It’s clear that any improvement at Guard would result in wins. There’s a long 80 games to go but it’s not unreasonable to imagine this team being able to improve at the guard spots.

Some of the problem is tactical. They need to be more aggressive using PnR/Drag Screens so our Guards can get more penetration and great angles and open shooters or scoring at the rim.

Solving poor 3rd quarters is a coaching issue IMO. GOTTA change the approach to how they come out for 3rd quarters!!!

Dude you were talking about how the Knicks would fight for wins and blah blah blah in September... You're the one whose crystal ball is broken, not the other way around

fishmike said: Yes. Sometimes I confuse the alerts with when your mom calls. BTW she said defensive guards are really important.
SupremeCommander
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10/22/2017  8:11 AM
And Briggs, completely disagree. Our 1 to 3 averages out to trash. Out points won't be able to contain any PG in an era where the rules make it easier for a PG to get in a lane. At least we have Kanter to protect the lane
fishmike said: Yes. Sometimes I confuse the alerts with when your mom calls. BTW she said defensive guards are really important.
nyknickzingis
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10/22/2017  8:13 AM    LAST EDITED: 10/22/2017  8:15 AM
I don't know Briggs.
I think the Knicks don't have a closer unless Tim gets much better.

Bigs like KP/Kanter will make us a load to deal with. We'll score. When it comes down to closing games, you need a guard or wing that can get the ball at the top of the arc or wing and create. Off pick and rolls or isolations. When the opposing defense is locked in. This is where we don't have anyone. It was supposed to be Tim, but I don't see Tim being that consistent guy ever. If we had a player that could be that guy, we would likely be too good to be a top 3 drafting team.

Some teams lack that player but are good teams because they have exceptional defense. This won't be us. We won't be lockdown in the 4th quarters.

As it is, I think we'll be close to 20 wins at most. This is not a team that will be able to close many games. Tim will have his nights, sometime KP will do something special like have a 40 point game. However without an all-star wing or point, forget about closing games. We've got something with Kanter/KP though. I think those two can be built around, especially if Willy comes in and plays like he did last year, that 3 man rotation at the power spots is something most teams can't deal with.

nykshaknbake
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10/22/2017  8:23 AM
It doesn't look like a win is coming anytime soon. The team may get demoralized and we could work our way to draft victory.
BRIGGS
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10/22/2017  8:47 AM
KP Kanter And Oquinn are all averaging close to double doubles. Combined 4-5 position averages and efficiency —# 1 in the nba. On the other sides our guard have the worst collective shooting % in the nba—31. While the 4-5 s won’t keep up this rate they’ll be very good and we haven’t played Willy yet. I’d have to assume our guards will improve— and we may win more than what some originally thought
Bonn1997
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10/22/2017  10:20 AM
Not sure the Knicks are too good for anything
nixluva
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10/22/2017  11:12 AM
SupremeCommander wrote:
nixluva wrote:
wargames wrote:....... no we're going to be bad

Knicks are not as bad as some think. It’s clear that any improvement at Guard would result in wins. There’s a long 80 games to go but it’s not unreasonable to imagine this team being able to improve at the guard spots.

Some of the problem is tactical. They need to be more aggressive using PnR/Drag Screens so our Guards can get more penetration and great angles and open shooters or scoring at the rim.

Solving poor 3rd quarters is a coaching issue IMO. GOTTA change the approach to how they come out for 3rd quarters!!!

Dude you were talking about how the Knicks would fight for wins and blah blah blah in September... You're the one whose crystal ball is broken, not the other way around

FOH! You watched the Knicks and think I was wrong about them fighting for wins? How the F is my “crystal ball” broken? Take your SALTY ASS out of here. The Knicks played hard but not always well offensively in particular. NOTHING I talked about has been disproven so far after 2 games!

You just want to attack me with your negative BS! What did I say above that calls for your Bytch Ass attack? All I wrote was what happened in the game and what they need to improve in order to win.

Can’t stand MF’ers like you with TRASH posts like this. Post some actual argument. Put some work into your post rather than just personally attack me without any counter point. Do better or don’t comment at all.

martin
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10/22/2017  11:16 AM
nixluva wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:
nixluva wrote:
wargames wrote:....... no we're going to be bad

Knicks are not as bad as some think. It’s clear that any improvement at Guard would result in wins. There’s a long 80 games to go but it’s not unreasonable to imagine this team being able to improve at the guard spots.

Some of the problem is tactical. They need to be more aggressive using PnR/Drag Screens so our Guards can get more penetration and great angles and open shooters or scoring at the rim.

Solving poor 3rd quarters is a coaching issue IMO. GOTTA change the approach to how they come out for 3rd quarters!!!

Dude you were talking about how the Knicks would fight for wins and blah blah blah in September... You're the one whose crystal ball is broken, not the other way around

FOH! You watched the Knicks and think I was wrong about them fighting for wins? How the F is my “crystal ball” broken? Take your SALTY ASS out of here. The Knicks played hard but not always well offensively in particular. NOTHING I talked about has been disproven so far after 2 games!

You just want to attack me with your negative BS! What did I say above that calls for your Bytch Ass attack? All I wrote was what happened in the game and what they need to improve in order to win.

Can’t stand MF’ers like you with TRASH posts like this. Post some actual argument. Put some work into your post rather than just personally attack me without any counter point. Do better or don’t comment at all.

nix man, your blood pressure too high!

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SupremeCommander
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10/22/2017  11:27 AM
martin wrote:
nixluva wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:
nixluva wrote:
wargames wrote:....... no we're going to be bad

Knicks are not as bad as some think. It’s clear that any improvement at Guard would result in wins. There’s a long 80 games to go but it’s not unreasonable to imagine this team being able to improve at the guard spots.

Some of the problem is tactical. They need to be more aggressive using PnR/Drag Screens so our Guards can get more penetration and great angles and open shooters or scoring at the rim.

Solving poor 3rd quarters is a coaching issue IMO. GOTTA change the approach to how they come out for 3rd quarters!!!

Dude you were talking about how the Knicks would fight for wins and blah blah blah in September... You're the one whose crystal ball is broken, not the other way around

FOH! You watched the Knicks and think I was wrong about them fighting for wins? How the F is my “crystal ball” broken? Take your SALTY ASS out of here. The Knicks played hard but not always well offensively in particular. NOTHING I talked about has been disproven so far after 2 games!

You just want to attack me with your negative BS! What did I say above that calls for your Bytch Ass attack? All I wrote was what happened in the game and what they need to improve in order to win.

Can’t stand MF’ers like you with TRASH posts like this. Post some actual argument. Put some work into your post rather than just personally attack me without any counter point. Do better or don’t comment at all.

nix man, your blood pressure too high!

martin -- wtf? do I get to treat nix like the **** he is now? c'mon. just because nix wants to have the Knicks run a train on him in the lockerrom shouldn't give him the license to run his mouth like the bitch he is

fishmike said: Yes. Sometimes I confuse the alerts with when your mom calls. BTW she said defensive guards are really important.
nixluva
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10/22/2017  11:37 AM
SupremeCommander wrote:
martin wrote:
nixluva wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:
nixluva wrote:
wargames wrote:....... no we're going to be bad

Knicks are not as bad as some think. It’s clear that any improvement at Guard would result in wins. There’s a long 80 games to go but it’s not unreasonable to imagine this team being able to improve at the guard spots.

Some of the problem is tactical. They need to be more aggressive using PnR/Drag Screens so our Guards can get more penetration and great angles and open shooters or scoring at the rim.

Solving poor 3rd quarters is a coaching issue IMO. GOTTA change the approach to how they come out for 3rd quarters!!!

Dude you were talking about how the Knicks would fight for wins and blah blah blah in September... You're the one whose crystal ball is broken, not the other way around

FOH! You watched the Knicks and think I was wrong about them fighting for wins? How the F is my “crystal ball” broken? Take your SALTY ASS out of here. The Knicks played hard but not always well offensively in particular. NOTHING I talked about has been disproven so far after 2 games!

You just want to attack me with your negative BS! What did I say above that calls for your Bytch Ass attack? All I wrote was what happened in the game and what they need to improve in order to win.

Can’t stand MF’ers like you with TRASH posts like this. Post some actual argument. Put some work into your post rather than just personally attack me without any counter point. Do better or don’t comment at all.

nix man, your blood pressure too high!

martin -- wtf? do I get to treat nix like the **** he is now? c'mon. just because nix wants to have the Knicks run a train on him in the lockerrom shouldn't give him the license to run his mouth like the bitch he is

Read your post and tell me you put any kind of thought into it. It was just a cheap shot at me and no substance or counter argument. Since when is that acceptable? You have EXPLAIN WHY you think I’m wrong. That’s a discussion! Your post was trash and I’m not gonna take that BS! You want to keep it up got much more for you!

SupremeCommander
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10/22/2017  11:45 AM
nixluva wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:
martin wrote:
nixluva wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:
nixluva wrote:
wargames wrote:....... no we're going to be bad

Knicks are not as bad as some think. It’s clear that any improvement at Guard would result in wins. There’s a long 80 games to go but it’s not unreasonable to imagine this team being able to improve at the guard spots.

Some of the problem is tactical. They need to be more aggressive using PnR/Drag Screens so our Guards can get more penetration and great angles and open shooters or scoring at the rim.

Solving poor 3rd quarters is a coaching issue IMO. GOTTA change the approach to how they come out for 3rd quarters!!!

Dude you were talking about how the Knicks would fight for wins and blah blah blah in September... You're the one whose crystal ball is broken, not the other way around

FOH! You watched the Knicks and think I was wrong about them fighting for wins? How the F is my “crystal ball” broken? Take your SALTY ASS out of here. The Knicks played hard but not always well offensively in particular. NOTHING I talked about has been disproven so far after 2 games!

You just want to attack me with your negative BS! What did I say above that calls for your Bytch Ass attack? All I wrote was what happened in the game and what they need to improve in order to win.

Can’t stand MF’ers like you with TRASH posts like this. Post some actual argument. Put some work into your post rather than just personally attack me without any counter point. Do better or don’t comment at all.

nix man, your blood pressure too high!

martin -- wtf? do I get to treat nix like the **** he is now? c'mon. just because nix wants to have the Knicks run a train on him in the lockerrom shouldn't give him the license to run his mouth like the bitch he is

Read your post and tell me you put any kind of thought into it. It was just a cheap shot at me and no substance or counter argument. Since when is that acceptable? You have EXPLAIN WHY you think I’m wrong. That’s a discussion! Your post was trash and I’m not gonna take that BS! You want to keep it up got much more for you!

Re read your post that preceded mine. Take a look in the mirror - you provide substance?

fishmike said: Yes. Sometimes I confuse the alerts with when your mom calls. BTW she said defensive guards are really important.
Bonn1997
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10/22/2017  12:05 PM
martin wrote:
nixluva wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:
nixluva wrote:
wargames wrote:....... no we're going to be bad

Knicks are not as bad as some think. It’s clear that any improvement at Guard would result in wins. There’s a long 80 games to go but it’s not unreasonable to imagine this team being able to improve at the guard spots.

Some of the problem is tactical. They need to be more aggressive using PnR/Drag Screens so our Guards can get more penetration and great angles and open shooters or scoring at the rim.

Solving poor 3rd quarters is a coaching issue IMO. GOTTA change the approach to how they come out for 3rd quarters!!!

Dude you were talking about how the Knicks would fight for wins and blah blah blah in September... You're the one whose crystal ball is broken, not the other way around

FOH! You watched the Knicks and think I was wrong about them fighting for wins? How the F is my “crystal ball” broken? Take your SALTY ASS out of here. The Knicks played hard but not always well offensively in particular. NOTHING I talked about has been disproven so far after 2 games!

You just want to attack me with your negative BS! What did I say above that calls for your Bytch Ass attack? All I wrote was what happened in the game and what they need to improve in order to win.

Can’t stand MF’ers like you with TRASH posts like this. Post some actual argument. Put some work into your post rather than just personally attack me without any counter point. Do better or don’t comment at all.

nix man, your blood pressure too high!


Oh man. LOL
nixluva
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10/22/2017  12:05 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/22/2017  12:07 PM
SupremeCommander wrote:
nixluva wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:
martin wrote:
nixluva wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:
nixluva wrote:
wargames wrote:....... no we're going to be bad

Knicks are not as bad as some think. It’s clear that any improvement at Guard would result in wins. There’s a long 80 games to go but it’s not unreasonable to imagine this team being able to improve at the guard spots.

Some of the problem is tactical. They need to be more aggressive using PnR/Drag Screens so our Guards can get more penetration and great angles and open shooters or scoring at the rim.

Solving poor 3rd quarters is a coaching issue IMO. GOTTA change the approach to how they come out for 3rd quarters!!!

Dude you were talking about how the Knicks would fight for wins and blah blah blah in September... You're the one whose crystal ball is broken, not the other way around

FOH! You watched the Knicks and think I was wrong about them fighting for wins? How the F is my “crystal ball” broken? Take your SALTY ASS out of here. The Knicks played hard but not always well offensively in particular. NOTHING I talked about has been disproven so far after 2 games!

You just want to attack me with your negative BS! What did I say above that calls for your Bytch Ass attack? All I wrote was what happened in the game and what they need to improve in order to win.

Can’t stand MF’ers like you with TRASH posts like this. Post some actual argument. Put some work into your post rather than just personally attack me without any counter point. Do better or don’t comment at all.

nix man, your blood pressure too high!

martin -- wtf? do I get to treat nix like the **** he is now? c'mon. just because nix wants to have the Knicks run a train on him in the lockerrom shouldn't give him the license to run his mouth like the bitch he is

Read your post and tell me you put any kind of thought into it. It was just a cheap shot at me and no substance or counter argument. Since when is that acceptable? You have EXPLAIN WHY you think I’m wrong. That’s a discussion! Your post was trash and I’m not gonna take that BS! You want to keep it up got much more for you!

Re read your post that preceded mine. Take a look in the mirror - you provide substance?

It’s just TWO GAMES! The Knicks played played hard but had tactical mistakes on both ends. They got beat too many times on PnR and need more work on how to defend it.

The guards have played BELOW their capabilities so far, which is why I mentioned using more aggression on PnR or coming around screens rather than settling for jumpers which weren’t falling.

I wrote about changing their approach coming out in 3rd quarters. It’s been a longtime problem and Jeff needs to find a way to get the team to perform better coming out of the locker after the half.

One thing that drove me crazy is not ever being ready for BALL PRESSURE from the other team in the 3rd qtr!!! The Knicks don’t seem to recognize the opponent Overplaying the Entry. The right thing would be to attack the overplay by cutting the opposite direction or calling for a screen to force the defense into a tougher situation than simply denying the Entry and getting tips and steals. Waisting clock trying to pass to stationary targets who aren’t open.

TripleThreat
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10/22/2017  1:13 PM
nixluva wrote:
wargames wrote:....... no we're going to be bad

Knicks are not as bad as some think. It’s clear that any improvement at Guard would result in wins. There’s a long 80 games to go but it’s not unreasonable to imagine this team being able to improve at the guard spots.

Some of the problem is tactical. They need to be more aggressive using PnR/Drag Screens so our Guards can get more penetration and great angles and open shooters or scoring at the rim.

Solving poor 3rd quarters is a coaching issue IMO. GOTTA change the approach to how they come out for 3rd quarters!!!


The "problem" is that the Eastern Conference is dog kibble at this point. A lot of talent moved West and many of these teams are hobbling along. Knicks are not very good, but given weaker Eastern teams and factoring in injuries and back to backs, the Knicks may stay in some games much longer than practical future draft considerations would warrant.

Western teams, the bottom ones, are gonna get run over real fast. They'll sell real fast. So they'll find it easier to tank.

This is the problem when you have veterans with limited to no trade value, it forces your team into a soft treadmill situation. Bad enough to get into the top 10, but not bad enough to get into the top 3 range by the math.

If the Knicks were in the West, it would be easier to just start tanking now, except no one wants their veteran guys in trades.

A team like the Grizzlies for years, is a "hard treadmill team" Not going to win a ring, but won't bottom out to get a high impact lottery player. The Knicks are a "soft treadmill team" Not going to win a ring by a long shot, but won't bottom out ENOUGH to get an impact lottery guy at the top of the draft. At least a hard treadmill team can generate some fun basketball to please their fans at home games. The Knicks? It's not even fun to watch. It's just sort of depressing.

Since you came on this board you have been way off in regards to trade value. - Briggs 7/28/2015
nixluva
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10/22/2017  1:29 PM
TripleThreat wrote:
nixluva wrote:
wargames wrote:....... no we're going to be bad

Knicks are not as bad as some think. It’s clear that any improvement at Guard would result in wins. There’s a long 80 games to go but it’s not unreasonable to imagine this team being able to improve at the guard spots.

Some of the problem is tactical. They need to be more aggressive using PnR/Drag Screens so our Guards can get more penetration and great angles and open shooters or scoring at the rim.

Solving poor 3rd quarters is a coaching issue IMO. GOTTA change the approach to how they come out for 3rd quarters!!!


The "problem" is that the Eastern Conference is dog kibble at this point. A lot of talent moved West and many of these teams are hobbling along. Knicks are not very good, but given weaker Eastern teams and factoring in injuries and back to backs, the Knicks may stay in some games much longer than practical future draft considerations would warrant.

Western teams, the bottom ones, are gonna get run over real fast. They'll sell real fast. So they'll find it easier to tank.

This is the problem when you have veterans with limited to no trade value, it forces your team into a soft treadmill situation. Bad enough to get into the top 10, but not bad enough to get into the top 3 range by the math.

If the Knicks were in the West, it would be easier to just start tanking now, except no one wants their veteran guys in trades.

A team like the Grizzlies for years, is a "hard treadmill team" Not going to win a ring, but won't bottom out to get a high impact lottery player. The Knicks are a "soft treadmill team" Not going to win a ring by a long shot, but won't bottom out ENOUGH to get an impact lottery guy at the top of the draft. At least a hard treadmill team can generate some fun basketball to please their fans at home games. The Knicks? It's not even fun to watch. It's just sort of depressing.

The East is Marshmallow Soft to be sure! IMO the Knicks have a good deal of upside. The Guard Play can and should improve. If it does they’ll win a fair share of games.

The D has issues but actually looks better than last season. If they can clean up the PnR D they might be a decent defensive team.

I disagree about the Knicks not being fun to watch. They had their moments and should continue to show some improvement as the chemistry improves. They’re not even close to clicking on all cylinders yet.

This team can’t match the futility of a few truly TANKING teams. The only thing they can do is try to win and make improvements. There has to be internal growth from the younger players. Unless a deal is made to offload some of these Vets I don’t see how this team can lose enough to be top 3 Lotto.

Knicks too good for top 3 pick

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