Author | Thread |
fishmike
Posts: 53132 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 7/19/2002 Member: #298 USA |
11/14/2017 2:01 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:No. As one who was very happy with that trade here is what I remember: 1) being happy we moved a struggling SG for a PG who was a fantastic college player and 2) that Grant didnt look very good as a pro.Chandler wrote:fishmike wrote:Juliano wrote:http://www.82games.com/1718/17NYK3.HTMFrank's positive impact is not imaginary. Look at all his on/off stats. The Knicks are better on both sides of the ball measurably with Frank on the floor. Look at them, its very impressive.nixluva wrote:Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL: I dont ever remember gushing about how good Grant was in the NBA, or how he was doing x,y or z in the NBA, or how he was helping us win games. I dont remember Grant being on of the best +/- players in the NBA, or playing top flight defense against elite player in the NBA. I dont remember Grant earning extended minutes while the Knicks won games. I see zero similarity. Frank's praise and "hope" is coming from wins and his impact on the floor. "winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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Gudris
Posts: 20998 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 12/12/2015 Member: #6213 |
11/14/2017 3:18 PM
Frank "The Thief" Nilikina
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HofstraBBall
Posts: 27194 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 11/21/2015 Member: #6192 |
11/14/2017 4:01 PM LAST EDITED: 11/14/2017 4:12 PM
fishmike wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:No. As one who was very happy with that trade here is what I remember: 1) being happy we moved a struggling SG for a PG who was a fantastic college player and 2) that Grant didnt look very good as a pro.Chandler wrote:fishmike wrote:Juliano wrote:http://www.82games.com/1718/17NYK3.HTMFrank's positive impact is not imaginary. Look at all his on/off stats. The Knicks are better on both sides of the ball measurably with Frank on the floor. Look at them, its very impressive.nixluva wrote:Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL: My question was does anyone remember the blow hards that propted up Grant after the draft? Or during the first few weeks of season and then went on to excuse all his visible faults? I do, maybe we should bump those threads. And when did I mention anything that you just expanded on? The whole point was something you have said many many times....lets not get all excited so early in the season. Yet the kid has a good game on one side of the floor and he is promounced the better player? lmao Again, this is a friendly debate on who the better pick was. Not "We hate Frank" vs "We love Frank" We are all Knick fans and if he plays well and we win, we are all happy. But if we are going to have a friendly debate on who is the better player then we need to stop with the inflated analysis and praise of Frank and and the over emphasis on Smiths weaknesses. Fact is, the Frank is fiesty and I like him. But he has a long way to go to catch up to some of the other draft picks, including Smith. As well as other that I wanted. This does not mean I am crying about it every day. Or want Frank to fail. But, right now, Dennis is the better player. Now if we are arguing if Frank helps the team or not, that is a different story. Because I think he does. But I am not going to inflate his worth and say he is the reason we are having such a good start. Some on here are acting like he has been the main reason for the good start? Failing to mention KP's MVP year, Lee's best start since signing on, having a legitimate center that can score, having several guys that can get hot as secondary scorers and a much deeper bench that can all shoot the three. Not to mention how its a given that we would all of a sudden be winless if we had picked Smith, Mitchell or Monk instead. Nah. 'Knicks focus should be on players that have grown up playing soccer or cricket' - Triplethreat 8/28/2020
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BigDaddyG
Posts: 37539 Alba Posts: 9 Joined: 1/22/2010 Member: #3049 |
11/14/2017 4:42 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:fishmike wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:No. As one who was very happy with that trade here is what I remember: 1) being happy we moved a struggling SG for a PG who was a fantastic college player and 2) that Grant didnt look very good as a pro.Chandler wrote:fishmike wrote:Juliano wrote:http://www.82games.com/1718/17NYK3.HTMFrank's positive impact is not imaginary. Look at all his on/off stats. The Knicks are better on both sides of the ball measurably with Frank on the floor. Look at them, its very impressive.nixluva wrote:Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL: Frank and Jack started getting minutes, our offense and defense starting looking better, we started winning games. I'd say you have to give Frank a decent amount of credit for out turnaround. Dennis Smith is a better scorer, but both players leave a lot to be desired in that category. To say that DSJ is better outright is wrong. For all the Marbury comparisons, id say Marbury was a better playmaker in college and his rookie year than DSJ. Defense and passing goes to Frank hands down. DSJ is facing a much steeper curve than Frank when it comes to the mental aspects of the position. Lastly, the comparisons are getting tiresome. DSJ'S team sucks and I really have no interest in anything that goes over there anymore. Let's stop focusing on a struggling rookie on a crappy team every time Frank and Knicks have a bad game. Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right.
- The Tick
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fishmike
Posts: 53132 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 7/19/2002 Member: #298 USA |
11/14/2017 5:02 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:This. Combined with the #s that are glowing about Frank's impact. Go back and read some of the posts in this thread. Some folks got a lot of skin in the game and its old and annoying, especially when Frank is showing to be everything the player DSjr is. They are completely different but since Frank's minutes have come the impact has been undeniable.HofstraBBall wrote:fishmike wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:No. As one who was very happy with that trade here is what I remember: 1) being happy we moved a struggling SG for a PG who was a fantastic college player and 2) that Grant didnt look very good as a pro.Chandler wrote:fishmike wrote:Juliano wrote:http://www.82games.com/1718/17NYK3.HTMFrank's positive impact is not imaginary. Look at all his on/off stats. The Knicks are better on both sides of the ball measurably with Frank on the floor. Look at them, its very impressive.nixluva wrote:Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL: "winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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HofstraBBall
Posts: 27194 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 11/21/2015 Member: #6192 |
11/14/2017 6:01 PM LAST EDITED: 11/14/2017 6:03 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:fishmike wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:No. As one who was very happy with that trade here is what I remember: 1) being happy we moved a struggling SG for a PG who was a fantastic college player and 2) that Grant didnt look very good as a pro.Chandler wrote:fishmike wrote:Juliano wrote:http://www.82games.com/1718/17NYK3.HTMFrank's positive impact is not imaginary. Look at all his on/off stats. The Knicks are better on both sides of the ball measurably with Frank on the floor. Look at them, its very impressive.nixluva wrote:Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL: You do know what this thread is about right? If your tired of the comparisons, fair enough, but why post on the thread dedicated to it. On topic 'Knicks focus should be on players that have grown up playing soccer or cricket' - Triplethreat 8/28/2020
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Chandler
Posts: 26010 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 11/26/2015 Member: #6197 |
11/14/2017 6:03 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:fishmike wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:No. As one who was very happy with that trade here is what I remember: 1) being happy we moved a struggling SG for a PG who was a fantastic college player and 2) that Grant didnt look very good as a pro.Chandler wrote:fishmike wrote:Juliano wrote:http://www.82games.com/1718/17NYK3.HTMFrank's positive impact is not imaginary. Look at all his on/off stats. The Knicks are better on both sides of the ball measurably with Frank on the floor. Look at them, its very impressive.nixluva wrote:Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:
For the record, I was agnostic about Jerian, but confess to being a homer and liking all our picks (5)(5)
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HofstraBBall
Posts: 27194 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 11/21/2015 Member: #6192 |
11/14/2017 6:08 PM LAST EDITED: 11/14/2017 6:16 PM
fishmike wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:This. Combined with the #s that are glowing about Frank's impact. Go back and read some of the posts in this thread. Some folks got a lot of skin in the game and its old and annoying, especially when Frank is showing to be everything the player DSjr is. They are completely different but since Frank's minutes have come the impact has been undeniable.HofstraBBall wrote:fishmike wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:No. As one who was very happy with that trade here is what I remember: 1) being happy we moved a struggling SG for a PG who was a fantastic college player and 2) that Grant didnt look very good as a pro.Chandler wrote:fishmike wrote:Juliano wrote:http://www.82games.com/1718/17NYK3.HTMFrank's positive impact is not imaginary. Look at all his on/off stats. The Knicks are better on both sides of the ball measurably with Frank on the floor. Look at them, its very impressive.nixluva wrote:Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL: Skin in the game? True, yiu have the most. Lol You mean the #'s where Frank and KP are +44? By that measure Dotson had the most impact as he and KP were +53. And btw updated combo numbers Lee and KP are +25. LT and KP +24. Frank and KP +23. Amd I Repeat, this is not about his positive influence. So do yiu think KP scoring over 30 every game and shooting 50% and Kanter monster games habe had less influence? 'Knicks focus should be on players that have grown up playing soccer or cricket' - Triplethreat 8/28/2020
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Welpee
Posts: 23162 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 1/22/2016 Member: #6239 |
11/14/2017 6:18 PM LAST EDITED: 11/14/2017 6:20 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:There are a lot of long dudes who can't play defense, so Frank isn't a better defender just because of his length. And not that I'm a big advocate of advanced stats, but according to basketballreference.com per 36 mins Frank is 16th in the NBA in assists, Smith is 46. Per 100 possessions Frank is 15th in the NBA, Smith is 45th.BigDaddyG wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:fishmike wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:No. As one who was very happy with that trade here is what I remember: 1) being happy we moved a struggling SG for a PG who was a fantastic college player and 2) that Grant didnt look very good as a pro.Chandler wrote:fishmike wrote:Juliano wrote:http://www.82games.com/1718/17NYK3.HTMFrank's positive impact is not imaginary. Look at all his on/off stats. The Knicks are better on both sides of the ball measurably with Frank on the floor. Look at them, its very impressive.nixluva wrote:Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL: I wouldn't say Smith is a bad passer, but if you go by this very limited sample size I think it's safe to say Frank has a more positive impact on his team than Smith does. Having short arms shouldn't prevent Smith from giving better effort on defense. |
newyorknewyork
Posts: 29862 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 1/16/2004 Member: #541 |
11/14/2017 6:40 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:Chandler wrote:fishmike wrote:Juliano wrote:http://www.82games.com/1718/17NYK3.HTMFrank's positive impact is not imaginary. Look at all his on/off stats. The Knicks are better on both sides of the ball measurably with Frank on the floor. Look at them, its very impressive.nixluva wrote:Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL: Dotson wouldnt have the games or mins played nessesary for it to be a valid comparison. And you compared a few mins of one game vs the compiled stats of 10-11. He clearly has his flaws. But doesn't the on-off court differential show that his positives based on what he has currently demonstrated far out weight his negatives? The fact that he is able to produce these type of advanced stats this early in his career is worth praise. Don't think anyone would have guessed this type of contribution this early in his career. Frank and KP at 19-22 yrs old having the highest combined net efficiency in the NBA. Out of all the possible duos in the NBA. That's amazing. https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
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ekstarks94
Posts: 21011 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 7/5/2015 Member: #6104 |
11/14/2017 9:05 PM
Stephen A is a court jester.... |
BigDaddyG
Posts: 37539 Alba Posts: 9 Joined: 1/22/2010 Member: #3049 |
11/14/2017 11:06 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:fishmike wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:No. As one who was very happy with that trade here is what I remember: 1) being happy we moved a struggling SG for a PG who was a fantastic college player and 2) that Grant didnt look very good as a pro.Chandler wrote:fishmike wrote:Juliano wrote:http://www.82games.com/1718/17NYK3.HTMFrank's positive impact is not imaginary. Look at all his on/off stats. The Knicks are better on both sides of the ball measurably with Frank on the floor. Look at them, its very impressive.nixluva wrote:Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL: You're right, this is a DSJ vs. Frank thread. But how about we wait until DSJ does something noteworthy. As for assists, Frank has a higher assist percentage and per minute assist average than Smith. You, LeBron and maybe Smith's dad are the only ones who think Smith is as good a passer as Frank. Frank contributes to winners. DSJ gets highlight dunks in blowout losses. Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right.
- The Tick
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fishmike
Posts: 53132 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 7/19/2002 Member: #298 USA |
11/15/2017 9:49 AM
HofstraBBall wrote:Im sorry your not making sense. IF its not about his positive influence what is it about? Thats all I care about. Not AAU ball hogging babies that get their numbers. Ive had my share of them. I want guys who win. I have said repeatedly I would have been good with whoever we drafted. I am not fan of Phil but we drafted well under him and I think we got it right again. Frank's offense is way behind the other 3 guys, but his passing and play making might be the best of the 4. His defense is already at a high level for NBA standards, which at 19 with his barely developed body is unreal. These AAU kids have been scoring since they were 11. Frank is from a different mold and a different mindset.fishmike wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:This. Combined with the #s that are glowing about Frank's impact. Go back and read some of the posts in this thread. Some folks got a lot of skin in the game and its old and annoying, especially when Frank is showing to be everything the player DSjr is. They are completely different but since Frank's minutes have come the impact has been undeniable.HofstraBBall wrote:fishmike wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:No. As one who was very happy with that trade here is what I remember: 1) being happy we moved a struggling SG for a PG who was a fantastic college player and 2) that Grant didnt look very good as a pro.Chandler wrote:fishmike wrote:Juliano wrote:http://www.82games.com/1718/17NYK3.HTMFrank's positive impact is not imaginary. Look at all his on/off stats. The Knicks are better on both sides of the ball measurably with Frank on the floor. Look at them, its very impressive.nixluva wrote:Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL: You can say aw shucks fishmike thats really sweet but give me the guy who's a dominating player. Im saying we are seeing in the numbers that Frank is bringing just as much to the table as the other 3 guys. Frank plays off the bench. He gets more time with KOQ than KP and Kanter. In the last 6 games (since the Houston loss) Knicks are 4-2. What I am saying is Frank is hitting his stride. Knicks are winning games. Also... not sure if I mentioned it, but the Knicks are winning games. Dennis Smith with another big scoring game last night. Another Mavs loss. Patty Mills dropped 19, the dude averages like 9ppg. Smith Jr had 2 assists and 6 turnovers. Im good with Frank!!!!!! Oh... Knicks are winning. Smith's dunks are otherworldly. So were KP's putback dunks over guy's backs, and we were losing then also. I am enjoying the wins more. "winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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Welpee
Posts: 23162 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 1/22/2016 Member: #6239 |
11/15/2017 9:57 AM
fishmike wrote:Smith also had the second lowest +/- of all players in that game.HofstraBBall wrote:Im sorry your not making sense. IF its not about his positive influence what is it about? Thats all I care about. Not AAU ball hogging babies that get their numbers. Ive had my share of them. I want guys who win. I have said repeatedly I would have been good with whoever we drafted. I am not fan of Phil but we drafted well under him and I think we got it right again. Frank's offense is way behind the other 3 guys, but his passing and play making might be the best of the 4. His defense is already at a high level for NBA standards, which at 19 with his barely developed body is unreal. These AAU kids have been scoring since they were 11. Frank is from a different mold and a different mindset.fishmike wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:This. Combined with the #s that are glowing about Frank's impact. Go back and read some of the posts in this thread. Some folks got a lot of skin in the game and its old and annoying, especially when Frank is showing to be everything the player DSjr is. They are completely different but since Frank's minutes have come the impact has been undeniable.HofstraBBall wrote:fishmike wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:No. As one who was very happy with that trade here is what I remember: 1) being happy we moved a struggling SG for a PG who was a fantastic college player and 2) that Grant didnt look very good as a pro.Chandler wrote:fishmike wrote:Juliano wrote:http://www.82games.com/1718/17NYK3.HTMFrank's positive impact is not imaginary. Look at all his on/off stats. The Knicks are better on both sides of the ball measurably with Frank on the floor. Look at them, its very impressive.nixluva wrote:Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL: |
Chandler
Posts: 26010 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 11/26/2015 Member: #6197 |
11/15/2017 10:37 AM
fishmike wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:Im sorry your not making sense. IF its not about his positive influence what is it about? Thats all I care about. Not AAU ball hogging babies that get their numbers. Ive had my share of them. I want guys who win. I have said repeatedly I would have been good with whoever we drafted. I am not fan of Phil but we drafted well under him and I think we got it right again. Frank's offense is way behind the other 3 guys, but his passing and play making might be the best of the 4. His defense is already at a high level for NBA standards, which at 19 with his barely developed body is unreal. These AAU kids have been scoring since they were 11. Frank is from a different mold and a different mindset.fishmike wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:This. Combined with the #s that are glowing about Frank's impact. Go back and read some of the posts in this thread. Some folks got a lot of skin in the game and its old and annoying, especially when Frank is showing to be everything the player DSjr is. They are completely different but since Frank's minutes have come the impact has been undeniable.HofstraBBall wrote:fishmike wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:No. As one who was very happy with that trade here is what I remember: 1) being happy we moved a struggling SG for a PG who was a fantastic college player and 2) that Grant didnt look very good as a pro.Chandler wrote:fishmike wrote:Juliano wrote:http://www.82games.com/1718/17NYK3.HTMFrank's positive impact is not imaginary. Look at all his on/off stats. The Knicks are better on both sides of the ball measurably with Frank on the floor. Look at them, its very impressive.nixluva wrote:Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL: Also check out their clutch stats! With stats like those we're going to need to nickname DSJ "Wilt" (no not in honor of Wilt C) (5)(5)
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Welpee
Posts: 23162 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 1/22/2016 Member: #6239 |
11/15/2017 10:47 AM
Who would you rather have: Vince Carter, Dirk Nowitzki or Paul Pierce? All three came out of the 1998 draft. Vince made noise early with flashy numbers and highlight dunks. However, long term most would prefer having the other two.
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HofstraBBall
Posts: 27194 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 11/21/2015 Member: #6192 |
11/15/2017 11:00 AM
fishmike wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:Im sorry your not making sense. IF its not about his positive influence what is it about? Thats all I care about. Not AAU ball hogging babies that get their numbers. Ive had my share of them. I want guys who win. I have said repeatedly I would have been good with whoever we drafted. I am not fan of Phil but we drafted well under him and I think we got it right again. Frank's offense is way behind the other 3 guys, but his passing and play making might be the best of the 4. His defense is already at a high level for NBA standards, which at 19 with his barely developed body is unreal. These AAU kids have been scoring since they were 11. Frank is from a different mold and a different mindset.fishmike wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:This. Combined with the #s that are glowing about Frank's impact. Go back and read some of the posts in this thread. Some folks got a lot of skin in the game and its old and annoying, especially when Frank is showing to be everything the player DSjr is. They are completely different but since Frank's minutes have come the impact has been undeniable.HofstraBBall wrote:fishmike wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:No. As one who was very happy with that trade here is what I remember: 1) being happy we moved a struggling SG for a PG who was a fantastic college player and 2) that Grant didnt look very good as a pro.Chandler wrote:fishmike wrote:Juliano wrote:http://www.82games.com/1718/17NYK3.HTMFrank's positive impact is not imaginary. Look at all his on/off stats. The Knicks are better on both sides of the ball measurably with Frank on the floor. Look at them, its very impressive.nixluva wrote:Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL: Why are you pretending you dont know what this is all about. Its about who is the better player/prospect. So far Frank has been a solid ROLE player. My point was that you jabe to stop making it sound like he has taken over games with his play. Or that the team would be doimg worse witj Smith on the team. I think they would be even better r8gjt now witj Smith or Mitchell. Btw. Guys that are losing a debate usually resort to emotional stuff like "Ball hogging babies". Specially whem stats dont bacl it up. Nor can it be said of anyome watching him play. I've heard that made up perspective from many on jere before. Same **** people were saying about Lowry, Irving, amd LT. All that "they dont defend" and "let me show you the efficiency numbers" crap.Your missing the whole point. But Probably not. You just like changing the narrative when losing the argument. This thread is about who is the BETER player Smith or Frank. NOT who the better team is. Or ahould we start a whos better Harrison Barnes or LT thread and declare LT better. Or Lebron vs Lee amd declare Lee the wimmer because of gis COMBO stats. Using these type of stats we can come up with another 100 examples of mediocre players that are better than stars. But AGAIN, this is not about hating the Kid or within he fails or not rooting for him. Its about who "I" tgink is the better player and my preferred pick. I hope he proves me wrong. So far I can't say that he has. Btw, your clearly not watching the Dallas games. Mills was not covered by Smith fyi. 'Knicks focus should be on players that have grown up playing soccer or cricket' - Triplethreat 8/28/2020
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