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The Official Frank Ntilikina Versus DSJr Thread
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Welpee
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11/12/2017  2:09 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/12/2017  2:10 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
knickstorrents wrote:DS Jr is shooting 41% overall and 30% from 3. He doesn't have court vision, he's small, he is not a plus defender. Why do we need him? He reminds me of Derrick Rose, and not in a good way.

EDIT: he's also 17/29 from the free throw line (59%). Not what you want from a penetrating point guard with no vision.

The comments LBJ made were stupid. You saying he has no court vision is simplified and inaccurate. As is the whole he doesnt play defense. Typical thing people fall back on when trying to put a scorer diwn. And he ia NO WAY a DRose copy. Just watch him and you may have a different opinion. He is typically pass first when He sets up half court. He had 7 assists against Cleveland and could have had 3 or 4 more if not for missed lay ups. He is an excellent player. So far better than Frank. But it is still way too early to declare a winner. But let's not make up stuff jist to hate on the guy.

We also need to realize determining a "winner" shouldn't be based strictly on stats and its possible (probable) for Smith to put better numbers but the Knicks be more than pleased with what Frank brings to the table. If both players provide their teams with what they need both players come out of this a winner. But yeah, statistically you have to objectively say Smith has started out as the better player.
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fitzfarm
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11/12/2017  2:26 PM
Welpee wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
knickstorrents wrote:DS Jr is shooting 41% overall and 30% from 3. He doesn't have court vision, he's small, he is not a plus defender. Why do we need him? He reminds me of Derrick Rose, and not in a good way.

EDIT: he's also 17/29 from the free throw line (59%). Not what you want from a penetrating point guard with no vision.

The comments LBJ made were stupid. You saying he has no court vision is simplified and inaccurate. As is the whole he doesnt play defense. Typical thing people fall back on when trying to put a scorer diwn. And he ia NO WAY a DRose copy. Just watch him and you may have a different opinion. He is typically pass first when He sets up half court. He had 7 assists against Cleveland and could have had 3 or 4 more if not for missed lay ups. He is an excellent player. So far better than Frank. But it is still way too early to declare a winner. But let's not make up stuff jist to hate on the guy.

We also need to realize determining a "winner" shouldn't be based strictly on stats and its possible (probable) for Smith to put better numbers but the Knicks be more than pleased with what Frank brings to the table. If both players provide their teams with what they need both players come out of this a winner. But yeah, statistically you have to objectively say Smith has started out as the better player.

The biggest stat that frank is beating dsj on is efficiency and of course wins! Scoring wise yes DSJ is probably the best scoring player in this past draft. Everyone knew this before the draft,again DSJ is a terrible and i mean D rose terrible on defense.

Smiths ceiling is Steph marbury a guy who automatically gets 20 and 8 assists on a nightly basis but takes plays and games off.really struggles to be a winner.

Frank has the ability to be one of the best floor generals in the league and be the best defensive pg this league has ever seen.

I really don’t even see a comparison Frank is the supior prospect just on the fact he doesn’t need to score to be effective. He helps your team win in so many other ways, scoring is just a plus that will happen over time.

Knickoftime
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11/12/2017  2:28 PM
Welpee wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
knickstorrents wrote:DS Jr is shooting 41% overall and 30% from 3. He doesn't have court vision, he's small, he is not a plus defender. Why do we need him? He reminds me of Derrick Rose, and not in a good way.

EDIT: he's also 17/29 from the free throw line (59%). Not what you want from a penetrating point guard with no vision.

The comments LBJ made were stupid. You saying he has no court vision is simplified and inaccurate. As is the whole he doesnt play defense. Typical thing people fall back on when trying to put a scorer diwn. And he ia NO WAY a DRose copy. Just watch him and you may have a different opinion. He is typically pass first when He sets up half court. He had 7 assists against Cleveland and could have had 3 or 4 more if not for missed lay ups. He is an excellent player. So far better than Frank. But it is still way too early to declare a winner. But let's not make up stuff jist to hate on the guy.

We also need to realize determining a "winner" shouldn't be based strictly on stats and its possible (probable) for Smith to put better numbers but the Knicks be more than pleased with what Frank brings to the table. If both players provide their teams with what they need both players come out of this a winner. But yeah, statistically you have to objectively say Smith has started out as the better player.

As opposed to trying to find the correct answer to the 'who is better' question, how about we just stop asking it, because it's a stupid, pointless question.

fitzfarm
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11/12/2017  2:35 PM
Again scoring is just one aspect of the game that smith is better then anyone else in the draft class. He is a second round talent when it comes to defense,and leadership.

Frank is the best defender of the draft and arguably the best floor general. He also has a silky smooth jumper that will eventually fall.

We have the Kawhi Lenard of pg’s who is becoming hard to take off the court, he will in his prime have the ability to be a triple double machine.


Again it comes down to who would you rather have the next Steph marbury or the next j Kidd with better defense. Again the choice is simple, frank over DSJ all day every day.

Welpee
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11/12/2017  2:59 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/12/2017  3:01 PM
Knickoftime wrote:
Welpee wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
knickstorrents wrote:DS Jr is shooting 41% overall and 30% from 3. He doesn't have court vision, he's small, he is not a plus defender. Why do we need him? He reminds me of Derrick Rose, and not in a good way.

EDIT: he's also 17/29 from the free throw line (59%). Not what you want from a penetrating point guard with no vision.

The comments LBJ made were stupid. You saying he has no court vision is simplified and inaccurate. As is the whole he doesnt play defense. Typical thing people fall back on when trying to put a scorer diwn. And he ia NO WAY a DRose copy. Just watch him and you may have a different opinion. He is typically pass first when He sets up half court. He had 7 assists against Cleveland and could have had 3 or 4 more if not for missed lay ups. He is an excellent player. So far better than Frank. But it is still way too early to declare a winner. But let's not make up stuff jist to hate on the guy.

We also need to realize determining a "winner" shouldn't be based strictly on stats and its possible (probable) for Smith to put better numbers but the Knicks be more than pleased with what Frank brings to the table. If both players provide their teams with what they need both players come out of this a winner. But yeah, statistically you have to objectively say Smith has started out as the better player.

As opposed to trying to find the correct answer to the 'who is better' question, how about we just stop asking it, because it's a stupid, pointless question.

I agree with that too. Though realistically you know they're linked from here on out no matter what. Like Chris Paul and Deron Williams.
Welpee
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11/12/2017  3:02 PM
fitzfarm wrote:Again scoring is just one aspect of the game that smith is better then anyone else in the draft class. He is a second round talent when it comes to defense,and leadership.

Frank is the best defender of the draft and arguably the best floor general. He also has a silky smooth jumper that will eventually fall.

We have the Kawhi Lenard of pg’s who is becoming hard to take off the court, he will in his prime have the ability to be a triple double machine.


Again it comes down to who would you rather have the next Steph marbury or the next j Kidd with better defense. Again the choice is simple, frank over DSJ all day every day.

As much as a like Frank, the jury is still out on both. It's gonna be years before this is settled.
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11/12/2017  3:20 PM
Welpee wrote:I agree with that too. Though realistically you know they're linked from here on out no matter what. Like Chris Paul and Deron Williams.

Yes they are linked, so much so even Lebron airs his opinion about it. But the fact is, they really shouldn't be as DSJ made it nearly impossible for the Knicks to pick him. Talk about Monk, or more to the point about Mitchell as he's the next PG drafted after Frank, but DSJ is irrelevant. There is no way a front office would have drafted a guy who either hides a major injury risk or pretends to do it because he doesn't want to play there.

fitzfarm
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11/12/2017  3:20 PM
Welpee wrote:
fitzfarm wrote:Again scoring is just one aspect of the game that smith is better then anyone else in the draft class. He is a second round talent when it comes to defense,and leadership.

Frank is the best defender of the draft and arguably the best floor general. He also has a silky smooth jumper that will eventually fall.

We have the Kawhi Lenard of pg’s who is becoming hard to take off the court, he will in his prime have the ability to be a triple double machine.


Again it comes down to who would you rather have the next Steph marbury or the next j Kidd with better defense. Again the choice is simple, frank over DSJ all day every day.

As much as a like Frank, the jury is still out on both. It's gonna be years before this is settled.

I don’t even think the two can be compared, its like comparing j Kidd to Steph marbury it cant and shouldn’t be done.

One is a scorer the other is a pure floor general

Welpee
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11/12/2017  3:24 PM
fitzfarm wrote:
Welpee wrote:
fitzfarm wrote:Again scoring is just one aspect of the game that smith is better then anyone else in the draft class. He is a second round talent when it comes to defense,and leadership.

Frank is the best defender of the draft and arguably the best floor general. He also has a silky smooth jumper that will eventually fall.

We have the Kawhi Lenard of pg’s who is becoming hard to take off the court, he will in his prime have the ability to be a triple double machine.


Again it comes down to who would you rather have the next Steph marbury or the next j Kidd with better defense. Again the choice is simple, frank over DSJ all day every day.

As much as a like Frank, the jury is still out on both. It's gonna be years before this is settled.

I don’t even think the two can be compared, its like comparing j Kidd to Steph marbury it cant and shouldn’t be done.

One is a scorer the other is a pure floor general

Yeah, but I would bet almost everyone would say Kidd was a better player regardless of their playing styles being different.
fitzfarm
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11/12/2017  3:30 PM
Welpee wrote:
fitzfarm wrote:
Welpee wrote:
fitzfarm wrote:Again scoring is just one aspect of the game that smith is better then anyone else in the draft class. He is a second round talent when it comes to defense,and leadership.

Frank is the best defender of the draft and arguably the best floor general. He also has a silky smooth jumper that will eventually fall.

We have the Kawhi Lenard of pg’s who is becoming hard to take off the court, he will in his prime have the ability to be a triple double machine.


Again it comes down to who would you rather have the next Steph marbury or the next j Kidd with better defense. Again the choice is simple, frank over DSJ all day every day.

As much as a like Frank, the jury is still out on both. It's gonna be years before this is settled.

I don’t even think the two can be compared, its like comparing j Kidd to Steph marbury it cant and shouldn’t be done.

One is a scorer the other is a pure floor general

Yeah, but I would bet almost everyone would say Kidd was a better player regardless of their playing styles being different.

Which is exactly why frank is a better long term prospect and why frank gets drafted before DSJ I think the mavs made the right call at 9 for there extreme rebuild. I think most if not all of gm’s around the league would have picked frank over DSJ for the knicks team, who already has a number one scorer in KP.
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11/12/2017  3:43 PM
Welpee wrote:
fitzfarm wrote:Again scoring is just one aspect of the game that smith is better then anyone else in the draft class. He is a second round talent when it comes to defense,and leadership.

Frank is the best defender of the draft and arguably the best floor general. He also has a silky smooth jumper that will eventually fall.

We have the Kawhi Lenard of pg’s who is becoming hard to take off the court, he will in his prime have the ability to be a triple double machine.


Again it comes down to who would you rather have the next Steph marbury or the next j Kidd with better defense. Again the choice is simple, frank over DSJ all day every day.

As much as a like Frank, the jury is still out on both. It's gonna be years before this is settled.

Frank is younger(like 3rd youngest player in the league), comes from over seas, missed all of summer league and basically all of pre season. It was expected that he would start off behind Smith as well as the other rookies. I feel players like Frank with his physical tools, skill set, character are way harder to come by.

The defensive potential that Frank and KP have shown together is salivating. The 2 man game that Frank and KP has shown flashes of with KP setting Frank up for that clutch 3 or that monster alley oop that Frank set KP up for this past game off the PNR. The 2-way anchor potential with these 2 is undeniable.

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11/12/2017  4:04 PM
Juliano wrote:
Welpee wrote:I agree with that too. Though realistically you know they're linked from here on out no matter what. Like Chris Paul and Deron Williams.

Yes they are linked, so much so even Lebron airs his opinion about it. But the fact is, they really shouldn't be as DSJ made it nearly impossible for the Knicks to pick him. Talk about Monk, or more to the point about Mitchell as he's the next PG drafted after Frank, but DSJ is irrelevant. There is no way a front office would have drafted a guy who either hides a major injury risk or pretends to do it because he doesn't want to play there.

and you sure as hell dont when you had Frank/Monk/Mitchell on the board either.
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11/12/2017  4:07 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/12/2017  4:08 PM
I NEVER had DSJ ahead of Frank as a prospect. I was a Monk, DM or Frank guy. Just don't like the type of PG that DSJ is. However my take is that IF the Knicks drafted DSJ it was because their scouting told them he was the best player PERIOD. That's how they draft which is why I could live with whoever they chose. Gaines in particular is very much a guy that will tell you who he thinks is the player with the best overall potential and sell you on that. That's what he did with KP. If the Knicks truly believed that DSJ was the BEST PG for this team they would've drafted him.

Now of course we have to see how all of these young players develop over many years. It's not so much about where they are now but what they'll become later.

The last thing is the fit for the Knicks. Frank is without a doubt a perfect fit for this team. With KP behind him that defensive strength up the middle is insane. Frank and KP give this team IMMENSE defensive ability. As long as we keep other strong defenders on the roster this team should develop into one of the better defensive teams going forward.

You can already see how nice Frank and KP will develop chemistry wise on offense.

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11/12/2017  4:22 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/12/2017  4:48 PM
Knickoftime wrote:
Welpee wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
knickstorrents wrote:DS Jr is shooting 41% overall and 30% from 3. He doesn't have court vision, he's small, he is not a plus defender. Why do we need him? He reminds me of Derrick Rose, and not in a good way.

EDIT: he's also 17/29 from the free throw line (59%). Not what you want from a penetrating point guard with no vision.

The comments LBJ made were stupid. You saying he has no court vision is simplified and inaccurate. As is the whole he doesnt play defense. Typical thing people fall back on when trying to put a scorer diwn. And he ia NO WAY a DRose copy. Just watch him and you may have a different opinion. He is typically pass first when He sets up half court. He had 7 assists against Cleveland and could have had 3 or 4 more if not for missed lay ups. He is an excellent player. So far better than Frank. But it is still way too early to declare a winner. But let's not make up stuff jist to hate on the guy.

We also need to realize determining a "winner" shouldn't be based strictly on stats and its possible (probable) for Smith to put better numbers but the Knicks be more than pleased with what Frank brings to the table. If both players provide their teams with what they need both players come out of this a winner. But yeah, statistically you have to objectively say Smith has started out as the better player.

As opposed to trying to find the correct answer to the 'who is better' question, how about we just stop asking it, because it's a stupid, pointless question.

Think its stupid to go on a thread, dedicated to discussing who is better, just to say "its pointless to discuss it". Why is it stupid to discuss who is a better player? That is what forums are for, no? And you can absolutely argue who is a better player in sports. Regardless of perspective, some players ARE better than others. Now if your talking about discussing who is better for a specific team, yeah that is all subjective.

Melo Haters = Lin lovers who are mad Houston paid so much for his 15 Minutes,
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11/12/2017  4:27 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/12/2017  5:02 PM
fitzfarm wrote:
Welpee wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
knickstorrents wrote:DS Jr is shooting 41% overall and 30% from 3. He doesn't have court vision, he's small, he is not a plus defender. Why do we need him? He reminds me of Derrick Rose, and not in a good way.

EDIT: he's also 17/29 from the free throw line (59%). Not what you want from a penetrating point guard with no vision.

The comments LBJ made were stupid. You saying he has no court vision is simplified and inaccurate. As is the whole he doesnt play defense. Typical thing people fall back on when trying to put a scorer diwn. And he ia NO WAY a DRose copy. Just watch him and you may have a different opinion. He is typically pass first when He sets up half court. He had 7 assists against Cleveland and could have had 3 or 4 more if not for missed lay ups. He is an excellent player. So far better than Frank. But it is still way too early to declare a winner. But let's not make up stuff jist to hate on the guy.

We also need to realize determining a "winner" shouldn't be based strictly on stats and its possible (probable) for Smith to put better numbers but the Knicks be more than pleased with what Frank brings to the table. If both players provide their teams with what they need both players come out of this a winner. But yeah, statistically you have to objectively say Smith has started out as the better player.

The biggest stat that frank is beating dsj on is efficiency and of course wins! Scoring wise yes DSJ is probably the best scoring player in this past draft. Everyone knew this before the draft,again DSJ is a terrible and i mean D rose terrible on defense.

Smiths ceiling is Steph marbury a guy who automatically gets 20 and 8 assists on a nightly basis but takes plays and games off.really struggles to be a winner.

Frank has the ability to be one of the best floor generals in the league and be the best defensive pg this league has ever seen.

I really don’t even see a comparison Frank is the supior prospect just on the fact he doesn’t need to score to be effective. He helps your team win in so many other ways, scoring is just a plus that will happen over time.

How many Mav games have you watched to say he is a bad defender?

To give a ceiling for a player after 10 games is ignorant. As would saying Smith has the ceiling of Steph Curry.

To say someone has the ability to be one of the best floor generals and best defensive guys in the league is simplistic and can probably be said of any decent defender in the draft.

You not seeing the comparisson would require watching both subjects extensively. But we will take your word for it over every other NBA level observer.

Melo Haters = Lin lovers who are mad Houston paid so much for his 15 Minutes,
HofstraBBall
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11/12/2017  4:28 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/12/2017  4:54 PM
fitzfarm wrote:
Welpee wrote:
fitzfarm wrote:Again scoring is just one aspect of the game that smith is better then anyone else in the draft class. He is a second round talent when it comes to defense,and leadership.

Frank is the best defender of the draft and arguably the best floor general. He also has a silky smooth jumper that will eventually fall.

We have the Kawhi Lenard of pg’s who is becoming hard to take off the court, he will in his prime have the ability to be a triple double machine.


Again it comes down to who would you rather have the next Steph marbury or the next j Kidd with better defense. Again the choice is simple, frank over DSJ all day every day.

As much as a like Frank, the jury is still out on both. It's gonna be years before this is settled.

I don’t even think the two can be compared, its like comparing j Kidd to Steph marbury it cant and shouldn’t be done.

One is a scorer the other is a pure floor general

So you think Steph was just as good as JKidd? Guess you think the Timberwolves did the right thing, in 2009, by picking the better floor genereal(Rubio) over the better offensive pick(Curry)?

Melo Haters = Lin lovers who are mad Houston paid so much for his 15 Minutes,
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11/12/2017  4:47 PM
Juliano wrote:
Welpee wrote:I agree with that too. Though realistically you know they're linked from here on out no matter what. Like Chris Paul and Deron Williams.

Yes they are linked, so much so even Lebron airs his opinion about it. But the fact is, they really shouldn't be as DSJ made it nearly impossible for the Knicks to pick him. Talk about Monk, or more to the point about Mitchell as he's the next PG drafted after Frank, but DSJ is irrelevant. There is no way a front office would have drafted a guy who either hides a major injury risk or pretends to do it because he doesn't want to play there.

Valid point

Melo Haters = Lin lovers who are mad Houston paid so much for his 15 Minutes,
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11/12/2017  5:33 PM
Swishfm3 wrote:
BigRedDog wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
knickstorrents wrote:DS Jr is shooting 41% overall and 30% from 3. He doesn't have court vision, he's small, he is not a plus defender. Why do we need him? He reminds me of Derrick Rose, and not in a good way.

EDIT: he's also 17/29 from the free throw line (59%). Not what you want from a penetrating point guard with no vision.

The comments LBJ made were stupid. You saying he has no court vision is simplified and inaccurate. As is the whole he doesnt play defense. Typical thing people fall back on when trying to put a scorer diwn. And he ia NO WAY a DRose copy. Just watch him and you may have a different opinion. He is typically pass first when He sets up half court. He had 7 assists against Cleveland and could have had 3 or 4 more if not for missed lay ups. He is an excellent player. So far better than Frank. But it is still way too early to declare a winner. But let's not make up stuff jist to hate on the guy.

Agreed. amazing how many people give reponses to DSJ and probably have not seen him play 1 minute this season.

You can't anyone here serious...there are many on this site that have admitted to not even watching Knick games...they just "stat watch" or catch highlights on Youtube.

It is what it is...I currently place D.Smith way above Frank. To me DSJr. is the second best rookie behind Simmons (and I say this having not watched Mitchell play yet) but it seems like, so far, both the Mavs and the Knicks drafted the player that they needed.

Say what?!?! I have Fox above DSJ, easily. Kuzma?!?!!Tatum!?!?! It's clear Simmons is head of the class, but I can't say DSJ has done nearly enough to say he's a clear #2. I haven't followed Mitchell much either so I can't speak much on him

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
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11/12/2017  6:31 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
fitzfarm wrote:
Welpee wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
knickstorrents wrote:DS Jr is shooting 41% overall and 30% from 3. He doesn't have court vision, he's small, he is not a plus defender. Why do we need him? He reminds me of Derrick Rose, and not in a good way.

EDIT: he's also 17/29 from the free throw line (59%). Not what you want from a penetrating point guard with no vision.

The comments LBJ made were stupid. You saying he has no court vision is simplified and inaccurate. As is the whole he doesnt play defense. Typical thing people fall back on when trying to put a scorer diwn. And he ia NO WAY a DRose copy. Just watch him and you may have a different opinion. He is typically pass first when He sets up half court. He had 7 assists against Cleveland and could have had 3 or 4 more if not for missed lay ups. He is an excellent player. So far better than Frank. But it is still way too early to declare a winner. But let's not make up stuff jist to hate on the guy.

We also need to realize determining a "winner" shouldn't be based strictly on stats and its possible (probable) for Smith to put better numbers but the Knicks be more than pleased with what Frank brings to the table. If both players provide their teams with what they need both players come out of this a winner. But yeah, statistically you have to objectively say Smith has started out as the better player.

The biggest stat that frank is beating dsj on is efficiency and of course wins! Scoring wise yes DSJ is probably the best scoring player in this past draft. Everyone knew this before the draft,again DSJ is a terrible and i mean D rose terrible on defense.

Smiths ceiling is Steph marbury a guy who automatically gets 20 and 8 assists on a nightly basis but takes plays and games off.really struggles to be a winner.

Frank has the ability to be one of the best floor generals in the league and be the best defensive pg this league has ever seen.

I really don’t even see a comparison Frank is the supior prospect just on the fact he doesn’t need to score to be effective. He helps your team win in so many other ways, scoring is just a plus that will happen over time.

How many Mav games have you watched to say he is a bad defender?

To give a ceiling for a player after 10 games is ignorant. As would saying Smith has the ceiling of Steph Curry.

To say someone has the ability to be one of the best floor generals and best defensive guys in the league is simplistic and can probably be said of any decent defender in the draft.

You not seeing the comparisson would require watching both subjects extensively. But we will take your word for it over every other NBA level observer.

I try and watch every nba game, I’ve seen 10 mavs games, so far this year. yea they are not a fun team to watch. Yes DSJ right now is a terrible defender, he plays rose level defense. He also takes plays off ala Steph marbury. Speaking of marbury yes I see a lot of marbury in DSJ’s game, DSJ needs the ball in his hands to have a positive efficiency in the game. He’s not a elite shooter by any means but can score in bunches a lot like marbury. When his shot is on it opens the whole floor for him, and he can really attack the basket like marbury use to do. I question DSJ’s work ethic and desire just like i did when he played in college, on a losing team that he controlled as the pg/number one option. I’ve been watching DSJ for a lot longer then ten games to make a pretty sound assessment on him as a player right now. He is a scorer their is no doubt about that, and when he is scoring he can rack up assists. He’s not very active off the ball yet, he plays when the ball is in his hands. when and if he ever becomes a active player off the ball it could really make him dangerous . It looks as if he stops playing when the ball isnt in his hands, again desire to be a team player is in question just like it was in college. Like marbury the guy is a super talent on offense with the ball in his hands.

Defense he really has issues keeping up with his man. His lateral quickness is still a work in progress and he really is lazy when trying to get over screens, I shouldn’t Even say get over screens he never gets over screens Smith is always selecting to go under screens. Also he has issues on switching, there seems to be anxiety when he is on a different player sometimes leaving him all together just to get back to his man. If their is any positive on defense it’s like marbury he can get into the passing lanes for a steal or two. He really takes a noticable amount of plays off on defense. Im sure if you asked a mavs fan they would all tell you he needs to work on defense.

Like marbury all the talent is there, it will come down to work ethic and desire. Also I’m not selling the kid short on the marbury comparison, marbury was a fantastic player for many years a all star.


And again comparing frank to dsj is apples to oranges they are completely different players it shouldn’t be done.

reub
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11/12/2017  9:31 PM
fitzfarm wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
fitzfarm wrote:
Welpee wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
knickstorrents wrote:DS Jr is shooting 41% overall and 30% from 3. He doesn't have court vision, he's small, he is not a plus defender. Why do we need him? He reminds me of Derrick Rose, and not in a good way.

EDIT: he's also 17/29 from the free throw line (59%). Not what you want from a penetrating point guard with no vision.

The comments LBJ made were stupid. You saying he has no court vision is simplified and inaccurate. As is the whole he doesnt play defense. Typical thing people fall back on when trying to put a scorer diwn. And he ia NO WAY a DRose copy. Just watch him and you may have a different opinion. He is typically pass first when He sets up half court. He had 7 assists against Cleveland and could have had 3 or 4 more if not for missed lay ups. He is an excellent player. So far better than Frank. But it is still way too early to declare a winner. But let's not make up stuff jist to hate on the guy.

We also need to realize determining a "winner" shouldn't be based strictly on stats and its possible (probable) for Smith to put better numbers but the Knicks be more than pleased with what Frank brings to the table. If both players provide their teams with what they need both players come out of this a winner. But yeah, statistically you have to objectively say Smith has started out as the better player.

The biggest stat that frank is beating dsj on is efficiency and of course wins! Scoring wise yes DSJ is probably the best scoring player in this past draft. Everyone knew this before the draft,again DSJ is a terrible and i mean D rose terrible on defense.

Smiths ceiling is Steph marbury a guy who automatically gets 20 and 8 assists on a nightly basis but takes plays and games off.really struggles to be a winner.

Frank has the ability to be one of the best floor generals in the league and be the best defensive pg this league has ever seen.

I really don’t even see a comparison Frank is the supior prospect just on the fact he doesn’t need to score to be effective. He helps your team win in so many other ways, scoring is just a plus that will happen over time.

How many Mav games have you watched to say he is a bad defender?

To give a ceiling for a player after 10 games is ignorant. As would saying Smith has the ceiling of Steph Curry.

To say someone has the ability to be one of the best floor generals and best defensive guys in the league is simplistic and can probably be said of any decent defender in the draft.

You not seeing the comparisson would require watching both subjects extensively. But we will take your word for it over every other NBA level observer.

I try and watch every nba game, I’ve seen 10 mavs games, so far this year. yea they are not a fun team to watch. Yes DSJ right now is a terrible defender, he plays rose level defense. He also takes plays off ala Steph marbury. Speaking of marbury yes I see a lot of marbury in DSJ’s game, DSJ needs the ball in his hands to have a positive efficiency in the game. He’s not a elite shooter by any means but can score in bunches a lot like marbury. When his shot is on it opens the whole floor for him, and he can really attack the basket like marbury use to do. I question DSJ’s work ethic and desire just like i did when he played in college, on a losing team that he controlled as the pg/number one option. I’ve been watching DSJ for a lot longer then ten games to make a pretty sound assessment on him as a player right now. He is a scorer their is no doubt about that, and when he is scoring he can rack up assists. He’s not very active off the ball yet, he plays when the ball is in his hands. when and if he ever becomes a active player off the ball it could really make him dangerous . It looks as if he stops playing when the ball isnt in his hands, again desire to be a team player is in question just like it was in college. Like marbury the guy is a super talent on offense with the ball in his hands.

Defense he really has issues keeping up with his man. His lateral quickness is still a work in progress and he really is lazy when trying to get over screens, I shouldn’t Even say get over screens he never gets over screens Smith is always selecting to go under screens. Also he has issues on switching, there seems to be anxiety when he is on a different player sometimes leaving him all together just to get back to his man. If their is any positive on defense it’s like marbury he can get into the passing lanes for a steal or two. He really takes a noticable amount of plays off on defense. Im sure if you asked a mavs fan they would all tell you he needs to work on defense.

Like marbury all the talent is there, it will come down to work ethic and desire. Also I’m not selling the kid short on the marbury comparison, marbury was a fantastic player for many years a all star.


And again comparing frank to dsj is apples to oranges they are completely different players it shouldn’t be done.

Dennis Smith is lucky that he has Carlisle as a coach. He might be able to save him and his game. Frank doesn't need to learn how to play defense or team ball and doesn't need a coach to save him.

The Official Frank Ntilikina Versus DSJr Thread

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