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The Official Frank Ntilikina Versus DSJr Thread
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BigDaddyG
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11/12/2017  11:26 AM
StarksEwing1 wrote:
Juliano wrote:Well, LBJ himself said the Knicks should have drafted DSJ

I don't get this obsession with DSJ because if I understand it well, he made it impossible for the Knicks to draft him by not working out with them let alone refusing to provide his medical records. Maybe it was a plan to go to the mavs or maybe he really has something to hide, but in any case it meant the same : you just can't draft him. Now if people talk about Monk or Mitchell as missed opportunities, they may have a point but DSJ made himself pretty much undraftable.

Also, nice to see Kanter stick up for his teammate. Camaraderie goes a long way into making a team better.

Lebron also said Napier was gonna be a beast. Lebron is all time great but that doesnt mean he knows whats right for other teams. Right now the only advantage DSJ has is scoring. However frank is younger so his scoring might take a little while to come around. However his vision and defense alone make it greater for our team. I have nothing against DSJ but i see him similar to rose in terms of scoring but doesnt do anything else and obviously has major injury concerns

I believe Lebron and DSjr have a relationship stretching back to DSjr.'s AAU days as well Plus, no one here is ever gonna hype Lebron, the GM.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
AUTOADVERT
reub
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11/12/2017  11:28 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/12/2017  11:28 AM
Enes Kanter: "Nope!! We love what we got… Thanks!!!"

Gotta love Enes the Menace!
knickstorrents
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Hong Kong
11/12/2017  11:31 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/12/2017  11:40 AM
DS Jr is shooting 41% overall and 30% from 3. He doesn't have court vision, he's small, he is not a plus defender. Why do we need him? He reminds me of Derrick Rose, and not in a good way.

EDIT: he's also 17/29 from the free throw line (59%). Not what you want from a penetrating point guard with no vision.

Rose is not the answer.
Welpee
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11/12/2017  11:31 AM
reub wrote:This was LeBron James on DSJ: "The Knicks passed on a really good one and Dallas got the diamond in the rough. He should be a Knick. That's going to make some headlines, but he should be a Knick but Dallas is definitely excited he didn't go there. He's an unbelievable talent."— Saad Yousuf (@SaadYousuf126) November 12, 2017

So now, not only is LBJ giving his own opinion he's also the official spokesman for the Mavericks.

He should've add: "...but I pressured Cleveland into giving Tristan Thompson a huge contract and I said Shabazz Napier was my favorite player in the 2014 draft so take my opinions on talent evaluation with a grain of salt."
BigDaddyG
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11/12/2017  11:34 AM
KnickDanger wrote:Lebron is one of the greatest players of all time but a part time bonehead and a s#!tty GM.

Well, judging from LeBron's past GM decions, it's safe to say he values iso ball from his teammates over defense.

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
reub
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11/12/2017  11:39 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/12/2017  11:40 AM
Also, the New York Knicks have a team-best net rating of +6.2 when Frank Ntilikina is on the floor.

Let's Talk Knicks
reub
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11/12/2017  11:40 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/12/2017  11:40 AM
I know he hates the Knicks, and perhaps with good reason, but...

Over the past six games, Frank Ntilikina has averaged 10.3 assists & 2.8 steals to 3.1 turnovers per 36 minutes.

Let's Talk Knicks
HofstraBBall
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11/12/2017  11:57 AM
knickstorrents wrote:DS Jr is shooting 41% overall and 30% from 3. He doesn't have court vision, he's small, he is not a plus defender. Why do we need him? He reminds me of Derrick Rose, and not in a good way.

EDIT: he's also 17/29 from the free throw line (59%). Not what you want from a penetrating point guard with no vision.

The comments LBJ made were stupid. You saying he has no court vision is simplified and inaccurate. As is the whole he doesnt play defense. Typical thing people fall back on when trying to put a scorer diwn. And he ia NO WAY a DRose copy. Just watch him and you may have a different opinion. He is typically pass first when He sets up half court. He had 7 assists against Cleveland and could have had 3 or 4 more if not for missed lay ups. He is an excellent player. So far better than Frank. But it is still way too early to declare a winner. But let's not make up stuff jist to hate on the guy.

'Knicks focus should be on players that have grown up playing soccer or cricket' - Triplethreat 8/28/2020
Welpee
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11/12/2017  12:11 PM
2015 after 11 games:
Okafor: 19.2 ppg, 7.7 reb
KP: 11.4 ppg, 8.4 reb

2017 after 11 games:
Okafor: 5 ppg, 4.5 reb
KP: 30.4 ppg, 7.3 reb

Let DSJ win the first 11 games of his career compared to Frank.
Juliano
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11/12/2017  12:15 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:The comments LBJ made were stupid. You saying he has no court vision is simplified and inaccurate. As is the whole he doesnt play defense. Typical thing people fall back on when trying to put a scorer diwn. And he ia NO WAY a DRose copy. Just watch him and you may have a different opinion. He is typically pass first when He sets up half court. He had 7 assists against Cleveland and could have had 3 or 4 more if not for missed lay ups. He is an excellent player. So far better than Frank. But it is still way too early to declare a winner. But let's not make up stuff jist to hate, on the guy.

I concur. A poster wrote a couple weeks ago that it could turn out for the best for both teams and so it may. The mavs' franchise player is almost 40, they need a player who catches the eye and is gonna get tons of highlights to raise their profile and draw audience. The Knicks already have their franchise player for the next 10 years if they can hold onto him and provided he stays fit, and he's made it clear in no uncertain terms that he values winning. They need to surround him with top quality team first players that'll convince him he can win rings in NY. Whether Frank will be good enough to be for KP what Stockton was to Malone remains to be seen, but he already ticks some of the boxes.
BigDaddyG
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11/12/2017  12:36 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
knickstorrents wrote:DS Jr is shooting 41% overall and 30% from 3. He doesn't have court vision, he's small, he is not a plus defender. Why do we need him? He reminds me of Derrick Rose, and not in a good way.

EDIT: he's also 17/29 from the free throw line (59%). Not what you want from a penetrating point guard with no vision.

The comments LBJ made were stupid. You saying he has no court vision is simplified and inaccurate. As is the whole he doesnt play defense. Typical thing people fall back on when trying to put a scorer diwn. And he ia NO WAY a DRose copy. Just watch him and you may have a different opinion. He is typically pass first when He sets up half court. He had 7 assists against Cleveland and could have had 3 or 4 more if not for missed lay ups. He is an excellent player. So far better than Frank. But it is still way too early to declare a winner. But let's not make up stuff jist to hate on the guy.


I have watched them both and I can say, he doesn't have Frank's court vision and it's not clear whether he's an adequate playmaker. DSJ's shooting percentages are low, but that's to be expected by every rookie. I don't hold that against him. But calling him excellent? I can say that he hasn't been excellent. The eye test and the stats back that off. Frank, even in these early stages, runs a team better. DSJ's scoring ability makes things easier, but he has a ways to go.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
CrushAlot
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11/12/2017  12:38 PM
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
fitzfarm
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11/12/2017  12:53 PM
CrushAlot wrote:

Nice!!! Frankie is the best man, he’s only going to get better too!.... his court vision and defense can not be taken for granted!

Also lebron cracks me up, he knows he’s about to get his ass beat by KP. He is just bitter cause he knows he doesn’t have a shot in hell winning vs us now that KP is becoming a man playing vs boys.

Frank is going to drop lock down defense and throw sick dimes while KP drops 50... lebron you might as well go to the lakers cause no way your under achieving Cavs are even getting past KP in the playoffs and he knows it.
GustavBahler
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11/12/2017  12:58 PM
CrushAlot wrote:

Imagine if things had shaken out differently over the summer amd Rose was signed long term. Say goodbye to KP.
CrushAlot
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11/12/2017  1:01 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:

Imagine if things had shaken out differently over the summer amd Rose was signed long term. Say goodbye to KP.

I know. I was worried about his great exit meeting.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
BigRedDog
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11/12/2017  1:03 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
knickstorrents wrote:DS Jr is shooting 41% overall and 30% from 3. He doesn't have court vision, he's small, he is not a plus defender. Why do we need him? He reminds me of Derrick Rose, and not in a good way.

EDIT: he's also 17/29 from the free throw line (59%). Not what you want from a penetrating point guard with no vision.

The comments LBJ made were stupid. You saying he has no court vision is simplified and inaccurate. As is the whole he doesnt play defense. Typical thing people fall back on when trying to put a scorer diwn. And he ia NO WAY a DRose copy. Just watch him and you may have a different opinion. He is typically pass first when He sets up half court. He had 7 assists against Cleveland and could have had 3 or 4 more if not for missed lay ups. He is an excellent player. So far better than Frank. But it is still way too early to declare a winner. But let's not make up stuff jist to hate on the guy.

Agreed. amazing how many people give reponses to DSJ and probably have not seen him play 1 minute this season.

Briggs-- Frank is 2 yrs away from being 2 years away
StarksEwing1
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11/12/2017  1:26 PM
BigRedDog wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
knickstorrents wrote:DS Jr is shooting 41% overall and 30% from 3. He doesn't have court vision, he's small, he is not a plus defender. Why do we need him? He reminds me of Derrick Rose, and not in a good way.

EDIT: he's also 17/29 from the free throw line (59%). Not what you want from a penetrating point guard with no vision.

The comments LBJ made were stupid. You saying he has no court vision is simplified and inaccurate. As is the whole he doesnt play defense. Typical thing people fall back on when trying to put a scorer diwn. And he ia NO WAY a DRose copy. Just watch him and you may have a different opinion. He is typically pass first when He sets up half court. He had 7 assists against Cleveland and could have had 3 or 4 more if not for missed lay ups. He is an excellent player. So far better than Frank. But it is still way too early to declare a winner. But let's not make up stuff jist to hate on the guy.

Agreed. amazing how many people give reponses to DSJ and probably have not seen him play 1 minute this season.

I've seen him quite a bit and it's nothing against him but I feel frank fits our team better. I agree Dennis is a better scorer but frank does everything else better and his offense will blossom sooner than most think. I also feel DSJ is a major injury risk...even now dallas is worried about it
newyorknewyork
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11/12/2017  1:34 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:

Imagine if things had shaken out differently over the summer amd Rose was signed long term. Say goodbye to KP.

Apparently George Hill was the target to mentor Frank. I think the positive Rose talk was for agent BJ Armstrong. Rose was almost traded for Rubio. Jennings was cut and Baker was elevated. Phil drafted Frank over Smith. And George Hill was said to be the primary target. Its pretty clear what they were looking for at the PG position going forward.

https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
fitzfarm
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11/12/2017  1:51 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/12/2017  1:55 PM
BigRedDog wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
knickstorrents wrote:DS Jr is shooting 41% overall and 30% from 3. He doesn't have court vision, he's small, he is not a plus defender. Why do we need him? He reminds me of Derrick Rose, and not in a good way.

EDIT: he's also 17/29 from the free throw line (59%). Not what you want from a penetrating point guard with no vision.

The comments LBJ made were stupid. You saying he has no court vision is simplified and inaccurate. As is the whole he doesnt play defense. Typical thing people fall back on when trying to put a scorer diwn. And he ia NO WAY a DRose copy. Just watch him and you may have a different opinion. He is typically pass first when He sets up half court. He had 7 assists against Cleveland and could have had 3 or 4 more if not for missed lay ups. He is an excellent player. So far better than Frank. But it is still way too early to declare a winner. But let's not make up stuff jist to hate on the guy.

Agreed. amazing how many people give reponses to DSJ and probably have not seen him play 1 minute this season.


I try and watch every game I can, I’ve seen dsj about 8 times. I don’t see rose at all, he’s quick but nothing like rose was when he first came in the league its not even close. I see more of a slower and right now a less strong Steph marbury who has jump outta the gym hops.

The problem with smith is that he is a terrible defender, and so far like marbury he plays at 100 percent when he feels like it. maybe it has to do with his knees and lateral movement but man if there is anything to compare rose to DSJ its defense. Especially team defense when picks happen and switching is needed DSJ has a real problem switching off his man. And like rose who can score with the best of them, his defense negates his scoring on offense more so then not. DSJ shows no desire on defense, its also easy to get assists just like marbury when the only game plan is to give him the ball and do what he wants with it. The Mavs are a terrible team, quite frankly they are really hard to watch. They play with zero chemistry and dirk looks like he should have retired 2 years ago.

I’m not saying smith is bad by any strech, but I’d say his ceiling is Stephon marbury a guy who gets his points and assists but struggles to lead his team to victory with his lack of leadership and terrible defense. Like in college DSJ Plays when he wants too, I’d like to see him play every game like he wants to win.

Best case scenario for smith is that the mavs get some talent and smith becomes a 2nd or even better 3rd option, otherwise a marbury career is the best this kid can do. Marbury averaged 20 and 8 for how many years in a row? Marbury had a bad ending to his career but really was a top pg for most of his career.


Frank on the other hand is already one of the best defensive pg’s in the league at 19 and has the court vision of a young j Kidd. Like Kidd when he came in the league, frank has to work on his scoring ability. Frank has a silky smooth game and a silky smooth jumper its only a matter of hard work and confidence this kid will really knock um down soon. I’d like to see frank take a few more shots, when hes given the opportunity. So far there is way to many times he passes up a wide open look to get his teammates a shot.

Again if I’m sitting there at 8 no way i take DSJ over Frank, frank is the type of point Guard that wins chips and doesn’t need to score to be efficient in other areas of the game. Frank and ball are arguably between the two of them the best floor generals in the draft. And floor generals with pieces around them win chips.
Swishfm3
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11/12/2017  2:08 PM
BigRedDog wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
knickstorrents wrote:DS Jr is shooting 41% overall and 30% from 3. He doesn't have court vision, he's small, he is not a plus defender. Why do we need him? He reminds me of Derrick Rose, and not in a good way.

EDIT: he's also 17/29 from the free throw line (59%). Not what you want from a penetrating point guard with no vision.

The comments LBJ made were stupid. You saying he has no court vision is simplified and inaccurate. As is the whole he doesnt play defense. Typical thing people fall back on when trying to put a scorer diwn. And he ia NO WAY a DRose copy. Just watch him and you may have a different opinion. He is typically pass first when He sets up half court. He had 7 assists against Cleveland and could have had 3 or 4 more if not for missed lay ups. He is an excellent player. So far better than Frank. But it is still way too early to declare a winner. But let's not make up stuff jist to hate on the guy.

Agreed. amazing how many people give reponses to DSJ and probably have not seen him play 1 minute this season.

You can't anyone here serious...there are many on this site that have admitted to not even watching Knick games...they just "stat watch" or catch highlights on Youtube.

It is what it is...I currently place D.Smith way above Frank. To me DSJr. is the second best rookie behind Simmons (and I say this having not watched Mitchell play yet) but it seems like, so far, both the Mavs and the Knicks drafted the player that they needed.
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