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The Official Frank Ntilikina Versus DSJr Thread
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martin
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11/10/2017  8:04 PM
nyknickzingis wrote:Just for comparisons sake - here are there per 36 minute numbers

Frank 8.4 points 9.1 assists 3.4 rebounds 2.8 steals
Ball 9.7 points 7.5 assists 7.0 rebounds 1.3 steals usage rate is 19.2

PER
Frank 8.5
Ball 8.9

Frank's shooting better than Ball as well.

This is the #2 pick in the draft, and the guy that is the man of the Lakers right now.
I know Ball is a rookie and will get loads better with time, but Frank's in the same boat. He's a year younger, better defensively and has a better looking shot.

I know sounds crazy, but right now, I'd say Frank is as good as any rookie point guard in the league right now. It helps that all the rookies are struggling or not playing great basketball or not real point guards. Regardless, we chose him at 9 not 2. So for 9, man what a good pick in my opinion. He's two years away from even being close to where he needs to be. The talent is clearly there.

He's right away added a dimension to the team with his defense and pass first mindset.

or we chose him at #8

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fishmike
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11/10/2017  9:18 PM
Juliano wrote:
fishmike wrote:whats your story? Are you from or currently in the area? Did you know of or follow Frank before the Knicks drafted him?

I'm from Paris (Suburban area) originaly, but I don't live there anymore. I heard about Frank last year a bit before the draft, and I really liked his story so I got caught in reading things about him. It really amazed me how his mother could raise three children, work two jobs in a foreign country, and see them turn into a surgeon, a physical therapist and an NBA player. I was curious about how his NBA career would go, because being a lottery pick is no guarantee of success, but I thought that the values he's been taught (humility, work ethic) would provide a solid basement to build upon.

So far it looks like he's on the right path, taking it slowly. His qualities as a defender mean the coach can give him minutes knowing he's not going to be a liability for the team, his passing has been good as his 5th ranking in assist per minutes shows. His scoring is obviously still a work in progress but his shooting mechanics looks sound so the numbers should increase gradually. I read people are concerned with him not attacking the rim enough, but for all we know it could just be instructions from the coaching staff. It would be understandable for them not to want Frank to take a battering from the Draymond Greens of this world before he has matured physically. I think he could be a 10 points-7assists player by the end of the season, and you could be looking at a 15-20 ppg/10 assists/ 5 rebounds player in 3 years.

right on! Thanks for sharing that. His story is amazing. You can see where his resolve comes from. I get inspired reading and following such stories. You will find no shortage of love for Frank around here!
fishmike - Making UltimateKnicks great again
Juliano
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11/12/2017  7:48 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/12/2017  7:54 AM
Well, LBJ himself said the Knicks should have drafted DSJ

I don't get this obsession with DSJ because if I understand it well, he made it impossible for the Knicks to draft him by not working out with them let alone refusing to provide his medical records. Maybe it was a plan to go to the mavs or maybe he really has something to hide, but in any case it meant the same : you just can't draft him. Now if people talk about Monk or Mitchell as missed opportunities, they may have a point but DSJ made himself pretty much undraftable.

Also, nice to see Kanter stick up for his teammate. Camaraderie goes a long way into making a team better.

StarksEwing1
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11/12/2017  8:11 AM
Juliano wrote:Well, LBJ himself said the Knicks should have drafted DSJ

I don't get this obsession with DSJ because if I understand it well, he made it impossible for the Knicks to draft him by not working out with them let alone refusing to provide his medical records. Maybe it was a plan to go to the mavs or maybe he really has something to hide, but in any case it meant the same : you just can't draft him. Now if people talk about Monk or Mitchell as missed opportunities, they may have a point but DSJ made himself pretty much undraftable.

Also, nice to see Kanter stick up for his teammate. Camaraderie goes a long way into making a team better.

Lebron also said Napier was gonna be a beast. Lebron is all time great but that doesnt mean he knows whats right for other teams. Right now the only advantage DSJ has is scoring. However frank is younger so his scoring might take a little while to come around. However his vision and defense alone make it greater for our team. I have nothing against DSJ but i see him similar to rose in terms of scoring but doesnt do anything else and obviously has major injury concerns
Ira
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11/12/2017  9:02 AM
Substituting DSJr's numbers for Ball on the other chart, we have

Frank 8.4 points 9.1 assists 3.4 rebounds 2.8 steals
DSJr 18.8 points 6.5 assists 2.8 rebounds 1.1 steals

GustavBahler
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11/12/2017  9:21 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/12/2017  9:22 AM
^ wouldnt mind seeing the actual numbers included as well. Hard to keep track.


Considering LeBron's comments, Im sure Knicks fans wouldnt mind seeing Frank throw one down with authority for the first time. He's still skiddish. Its in his body language, his decision making, but he is slowly getting closer to the rim.

I know "system player" isnt considered a compliment. Until Frank shows that he can get to the rim, get to the foul line more often, he is a system player.

Frank can average 10 assists a game, but if he is getting to the line once every three, four, games, thats not a starting PG. I have no idea if he will become a real threat in that dept, not saying either way.

I am saying that Frank needs to be more aggressive. Ive seen the players encourage him, the coaches have been reported to be encouraging him, hope Frank starts being more aggressive sooner rather than later.

There is something to be said about letting the game come to you, at some point it becomes hesitation. Hopefully Frank will discover that line soon.

HofstraBBall
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11/12/2017  9:24 AM
Lebron's comments were absolutely unprofessional and childish. It may be fun to argue, on here, about why our draft picks were the better pick for us. And everyone on here Knows unlike Smith, Monk and Mitchell over Frank. But for the best player in NBA to publicly state that the Knicks made a mistake by picking Frank? That is just immature, unnecessary, and unfair. LBJ is letting a spiteful feud with Phil Jackson victimize a 19 year old KID. Why not just say DSJr. was a great pick? Smh.

I am sure the Knicks will help Frank put on a show on Monday. Not that it's neccesary.

Melo Haters = Lin lovers who are mad Houston paid so much for his 15 Minutes,
StarksEwing1
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11/12/2017  9:29 AM
HofstraBBall wrote:Lebron's comments were absolutely unprofessional and childish. It may be fun to argue, on here, about why our draft picks were the better pick for us. And everyone on here Knows unlike Smith, Monk and Mitchell over Frank. But for the best player in NBA to publicly state that the Knicks made a mistake by picking Frank? That is just immature, unnecessary, and unfair. LBJ is letting a spiteful feud with Phil Jackson victimize a 19 year old KID. Why not just say DSJr. was a great pick? Smh.

I am sure the Knicks will help Frank put on a show on Monday. Not that it's neccesary.

agreed hofstra. Like i mentioned i have nothing against DSJ and i understand why others like him but like you said to publicly say that is disrespectful to Frank and the knicks. Also if Lebron actually watched our games he would see that frank has been a very important player for us especially in the 4th quarter. IMO this is all about his petty feud with Phil
Welpee
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11/12/2017  10:39 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/12/2017  10:44 AM
StarksEwing1 wrote:
Juliano wrote:Well, LBJ himself said the Knicks should have drafted DSJ

I don't get this obsession with DSJ because if I understand it well, he made it impossible for the Knicks to draft him by not working out with them let alone refusing to provide his medical records. Maybe it was a plan to go to the mavs or maybe he really has something to hide, but in any case it meant the same : you just can't draft him. Now if people talk about Monk or Mitchell as missed opportunities, they may have a point but DSJ made himself pretty much undraftable.

Also, nice to see Kanter stick up for his teammate. Camaraderie goes a long way into making a team better.

Lebron also said Napier was gonna be a beast. Lebron is all time great but that doesnt mean he knows whats right for other teams. Right now the only advantage DSJ has is scoring. However frank is younger so his scoring might take a little while to come around. However his vision and defense alone make it greater for our team. I have nothing against DSJ but i see him similar to rose in terms of scoring but doesnt do anything else and obviously has major injury concerns
Bingo! I totally forgot about his love affair with Napier. Also, I remember DSJ posting a pic of him and Lebron when he was younger so they have some degree of history with each other. DSJ may be the hot chick from college who is destined to end up in rehab. She's fun for a while but ultimately may not be worth the headache down the road after she trashes your house, steals your wallet and maxed out your credit cards.
KnickDanger
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11/12/2017  10:42 AM
Lebron is one of the greatest players of all time but a part time bonehead and a s#!tty GM.
Vmart
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11/12/2017  10:46 AM
The rookies today think LeBron is GOAT, but Ntlikina is the only one that acknowledges Jordan as the GOAT. You don’t think LeBron knows this. Probably why he took a swipe at him.
StarksEwing1
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11/12/2017  10:53 AM
Vmart wrote:The rookies today think LeBron is GOAT, but Ntlikina is the only one that acknowledges Jordan as the GOAT. You don’t think LeBron knows this. Probably why he took a swipe at him.
yup thats true. Also frank was phil jackson pick so he hates him for that alone. Phil made some dumb decisions but he left us with some good pieces to build on and he obviously emotionally destroyed lebron which is fun to see
Zebo13
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11/12/2017  10:56 AM
Vmart wrote:The rookies today think LeBron is GOAT, but Ntlikina is the only one that acknowledges Jordan as the GOAT. You don’t think LeBron knows this. Probably why he took a swipe at him.

Good call! All of Lebrons GM meddling is part of why the Cavs are trash. So many huge contracts for mediocre players. They’re in luxury tax hell if I recall. Gonna be a fire sale at the end of the season I’ll bet.

Welpee
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11/12/2017  10:57 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/12/2017  10:59 AM
StarksEwing1 wrote:
Vmart wrote:The rookies today think LeBron is GOAT, but Ntlikina is the only one that acknowledges Jordan as the GOAT. You don’t think LeBron knows this. Probably why he took a swipe at him.
yup thats true. Also frank was phil jackson pick so he hates him for that alone. Phil made some dumb decisions but he left us with some good pieces to build on and he obviously emotionally destroyed lebron which is fun to see
We just need to be patient with Frank and not be distracted by every shiny piece of bling that captures people's attention. When you play on a 2-11 team you're going to have plenty of opportunities to put up eye catching numbers and highlight reel plays.

People are also conveniently overlooking how ordinary we made De'Aaron Fox look last night.

Zebo13
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11/12/2017  11:00 AM
Welpee wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
Vmart wrote:The rookies today think LeBron is GOAT, but Ntlikina is the only one that acknowledges Jordan as the GOAT. You don’t think LeBron knows this. Probably why he took a swipe at him.
yup thats true. Also frank was phil jackson pick so he hates him for that alone. Phil made some dumb decisions but he left us with some good pieces to build on and he obviously emotionally destroyed lebron which is fun to see
We just need to be patient with Frank and not be distracted by every shiny piece of bling that captures people's attention. When you play on a 2-11 team you're going to have plenty of opportunities to put up eye catching numbers and highlight reel plays.

People are also conveniently overlooking how ordinary we made De'Aaron Fox look last night.

Yep! He put up huge numbers on a terrible team last year two. Nobody is playing D when you’re up 25+, exceptnus last night. :)

StarksEwing1
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11/12/2017  11:00 AM
Welpee wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
Vmart wrote:The rookies today think LeBron is GOAT, but Ntlikina is the only one that acknowledges Jordan as the GOAT. You don’t think LeBron knows this. Probably why he took a swipe at him.
yup thats true. Also frank was phil jackson pick so he hates him for that alone. Phil made some dumb decisions but he left us with some good pieces to build on and he obviously emotionally destroyed lebron which is fun to see
We just need to be patient with Frank and not be distracted by every shiny piece of bling that captures people's attention. When you play on a 2-11 team you're going to have plenty of opportunities to put up eye catching numbers and highlight reel plays.
agreed. Just Scoring doesnt win...we have seen that first hand. Frank might not be a dynamic scorer but will have a better overall game. He barely plays 20 minutes and still gets close to 10 assists. His defense alone make it easier for us to either make a comeback or finish the game
nyk4ever
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11/12/2017  11:15 AM
StarksEwing1 wrote:
Vmart wrote:The rookies today think LeBron is GOAT, but Ntlikina is the only one that acknowledges Jordan as the GOAT. You don’t think LeBron knows this. Probably why he took a swipe at him.
yup thats true. Also frank was phil jackson pick so he hates him for that alone. Phil made some dumb decisions but he left us with some good pieces to build on and he obviously emotionally destroyed lebron which is fun to see

lol, totally agree with both posts.

its going to take a few years for frank to become the player he can be, mostly because he focuses on other parts of the game than scoring. a great career trajectory and comparison (i feel atleast) would be kawhi leonard, but from the guard position. kawhi came in, played great d from the start, did the little things and slowly added more and more offense to his game while the other guys took care of the scoring in the meantime. frank's afforded the same luxury here with KP being the dominate player that he is, all he has to do is keep improving and he can eventually become that super underated type like kawhi is from the guard spot. love frank, **** smith jr and FUCK LEBRON.

"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
StarksEwing1
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11/12/2017  11:17 AM
nyk4ever wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
Vmart wrote:The rookies today think LeBron is GOAT, but Ntlikina is the only one that acknowledges Jordan as the GOAT. You don’t think LeBron knows this. Probably why he took a swipe at him.
yup thats true. Also frank was phil jackson pick so he hates him for that alone. Phil made some dumb decisions but he left us with some good pieces to build on and he obviously emotionally destroyed lebron which is fun to see

lol, totally agree with both posts.

its going to take a few years for frank to become the player he can be, mostly because he focuses on other parts of the game than scoring. a great career trajectory and comparison (i feel atleast) would be kawhi leonard, but from the guard position. kawhi came in, played great d from the start, did the little things and slowly added more and more offense to his game while the other guys took care of the scoring in the meantime. frank's afforded the same luxury here with KP being the dominate player that he is, all he has to do is keep improving and he can eventually become that super underated type like kawhi is from the guard spot. love frank, **** smith jr and FUCK LEBRON.

very good comparison. Its also ironic because lebron doesnt like kawhi either. Whatever,im happy with what we have
WaltLongmire
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11/12/2017  11:23 AM
Just sayin'...

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
reub
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11/12/2017  11:25 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/12/2017  11:26 AM
This was LeBron James on DSJ: "The Knicks passed on a really good one and Dallas got the diamond in the rough. He should be a Knick. That's going to make some headlines, but he should be a Knick but Dallas is definitely excited he didn't go there. He's an unbelievable talent."— Saad Yousuf (@SaadYousuf126) November 12, 2017

So now, not only is LBJ giving his own opinion he's also the official spokesman for the Mavericks.

The Official Frank Ntilikina Versus DSJr Thread

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