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Doug McDermott, rental or building block??
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CrushAlot
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10/18/2017  4:25 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
reub wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:The Knicks are so deep. But I think they have to see what they have with Doug. Does Kuzminska play this year when the team is healthy?

We can literally put three separate units out there and they'd all be fairly equal. We are very deep. But how's our defense?

Houston stayed a tight 8 last night--if we did that there would be mutiny. This is a rubic's cube for sure.


Jeff's in a really tough position. He has vets on one year deals looking for their next contract, and young guys that are supposed to be about the new core. A trade to free up some of the roster log jams would be great. Not sure if there are teams looking for 8th or 9 th men though.
I think we know what we're doing..... Phil Jackson
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knicks1248
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10/18/2017  4:35 PM
Knickoftime wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
knickknack wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:The thing about a season like this, is if we lose 65 games, that would mean the entire team (with the exception of a player or 2) played really bad, or very inconsistent.

Do you remember when we won 17 games, what happen the next season, almost no one came back, we had like 12 new players the following season. There were guys on that team that were ok sometimes, shved, Jason smith, Galloway, Aldrich, larkin.

The worst part about this go around is that, almost 90% of the roster is signed through next season, so if they are brutally bad, were stuck with them

I disagree. much about winning games in the nba has to do with experience, the young players will almost certainly be inconsistent in many ways and that by itself will make the loses stack up. but as long as the good outweighs the bad then you can bring a player back and try and expect them to be better next year given another year of experience under their belt.

I actually think having all these young guys locked up is a good thing since we don't have to decide if they're big contract guys just yet. well, except for McD that is. haha

Here's the thing that people are not coming to grips with, 85% of the roster has 3 or more yrs experience, more than half the roster is straight up veterans..

Frank and Dotson are the only rookies, baker and willy are 2nd yr players so they are still wet behind the ears, ThJ, KANTAR, KP, McD, Lance, kuz, should be taking there games to new levels at this point in their careers.

So when you really look at it, this team is not as young as some of you make it out to be.

This is a case where something can be both true and irrelevant at the same time. The knicks have a fair amount of veterans on the squad yes, but no true impact players/leaders are veterans. No one is going to confuse Kantner with the real 'impact' player.

Hardaway is the closest thing to what you're trying to describe - a fifth year guy who you can reasonably predict will be fully formed sooner than later.

I'm sorry, any expectations at KP should already be near the top of his arc is just nonsense. We just saw Antetokounmpo make a quantum leap in year four. That should still be fresh in our memories.

honestly, this roster is made up of 15 bench players, and im not saying that in a bad way, im saying that like you can close your eyes and pick a player to start or coming off the bench.

If Mcd and Kuz play really well, do you bench lance and beasly, or visa versa, and worse, what if none of them out perform each other, then your really screwed cause who do you play, who do you bench, that's a major Challenge for any coaching staff

ES
GustavBahler
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10/18/2017  4:48 PM
SupremeCommander wrote:I think he might be a building block. If he can thrive on the second unit, hopefully even be our go-to scorer, then I think he becomes a really important piece for us.

Agree that McDermott can bring some offense off the bench. Keeping him IMO would depend on how good the team is defensively. Might make sense to move McDermott (or Kanter) for more D if we're giving up too many points.

Knickoftime
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10/18/2017  5:02 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
knickknack wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:The thing about a season like this, is if we lose 65 games, that would mean the entire team (with the exception of a player or 2) played really bad, or very inconsistent.

Do you remember when we won 17 games, what happen the next season, almost no one came back, we had like 12 new players the following season. There were guys on that team that were ok sometimes, shved, Jason smith, Galloway, Aldrich, larkin.

The worst part about this go around is that, almost 90% of the roster is signed through next season, so if they are brutally bad, were stuck with them

I disagree. much about winning games in the nba has to do with experience, the young players will almost certainly be inconsistent in many ways and that by itself will make the loses stack up. but as long as the good outweighs the bad then you can bring a player back and try and expect them to be better next year given another year of experience under their belt.

I actually think having all these young guys locked up is a good thing since we don't have to decide if they're big contract guys just yet. well, except for McD that is. haha

Here's the thing that people are not coming to grips with, 85% of the roster has 3 or more yrs experience, more than half the roster is straight up veterans..

Frank and Dotson are the only rookies, baker and willy are 2nd yr players so they are still wet behind the ears, ThJ, KANTAR, KP, McD, Lance, kuz, should be taking there games to new levels at this point in their careers.

So when you really look at it, this team is not as young as some of you make it out to be.

This is a case where something can be both true and irrelevant at the same time. The knicks have a fair amount of veterans on the squad yes, but no true impact players/leaders are veterans. No one is going to confuse Kantner with the real 'impact' player.

Hardaway is the closest thing to what you're trying to describe - a fifth year guy who you can reasonably predict will be fully formed sooner than later.

I'm sorry, any expectations at KP should already be near the top of his arc is just nonsense. We just saw Antetokounmpo make a quantum leap in year four. That should still be fresh in our memories.

honestly, this roster is made up of 15 bench players, and im not saying that in a bad way, im saying that like you can close your eyes and pick a player to start or coming off the bench.

If Mcd and Kuz play really well, do you bench lance and beasly, or visa versa, and worse, what if none of them out perform each other, then your really screwed cause who do you play, who do you bench, that's a major Challenge for any coaching staff

Despite committing the sin of not being embiid, to say Kp is an interchangable bench player is crazy time.

That said, your 15 man assessment maybe makes a lithe more sense in the context of "if you HAD to win tonight's game" who are your 5-10 guys.

But that isn't what the season is about. It's about development, and no that isn't about purging anyone over 26 either.

It's a ****tail of developing who will be your impact/leaders, and identifying roles players, and that doesn't mean throwing 5 rookies on the floor at all times.

nixluva
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10/18/2017  6:19 PM
Knickoftime wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
knickknack wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:The thing about a season like this, is if we lose 65 games, that would mean the entire team (with the exception of a player or 2) played really bad, or very inconsistent.

Do you remember when we won 17 games, what happen the next season, almost no one came back, we had like 12 new players the following season. There were guys on that team that were ok sometimes, shved, Jason smith, Galloway, Aldrich, larkin.

The worst part about this go around is that, almost 90% of the roster is signed through next season, so if they are brutally bad, were stuck with them

I disagree. much about winning games in the nba has to do with experience, the young players will almost certainly be inconsistent in many ways and that by itself will make the loses stack up. but as long as the good outweighs the bad then you can bring a player back and try and expect them to be better next year given another year of experience under their belt.

I actually think having all these young guys locked up is a good thing since we don't have to decide if they're big contract guys just yet. well, except for McD that is. haha

Here's the thing that people are not coming to grips with, 85% of the roster has 3 or more yrs experience, more than half the roster is straight up veterans..

Frank and Dotson are the only rookies, baker and willy are 2nd yr players so they are still wet behind the ears, ThJ, KANTAR, KP, McD, Lance, kuz, should be taking there games to new levels at this point in their careers.

So when you really look at it, this team is not as young as some of you make it out to be.

This is a case where something can be both true and irrelevant at the same time. The knicks have a fair amount of veterans on the squad yes, but no true impact players/leaders are veterans. No one is going to confuse Kantner with the real 'impact' player.

Hardaway is the closest thing to what you're trying to describe - a fifth year guy who you can reasonably predict will be fully formed sooner than later.

I'm sorry, any expectations at KP should already be near the top of his arc is just nonsense. We just saw Antetokounmpo make a quantum leap in year four. That should still be fresh in our memories.

honestly, this roster is made up of 15 bench players, and im not saying that in a bad way, im saying that like you can close your eyes and pick a player to start or coming off the bench.

If Mcd and Kuz play really well, do you bench lance and beasly, or visa versa, and worse, what if none of them out perform each other, then your really screwed cause who do you play, who do you bench, that's a major Challenge for any coaching staff

Despite committing the sin of not being embiid, to say Kp is an interchangable bench player is crazy time.

That said, your 15 man assessment maybe makes a lithe more sense in the context of "if you HAD to win tonight's game" who are your 5-10 guys.

But that isn't what the season is about. It's about development, and no that isn't about purging anyone over 26 either.

It's a ****tail of developing who will be your impact/leaders, and identifying roles players, and that doesn't mean throwing 5 rookies on the floor at all times.

YUP! Some may not respect THJ but he was a starter for a playoff team and he earned that! THJ was a top 15 SG last year after starting off poorly and doing a D League stint.

KP is a starter as is CLee! To be fair this Knicks roster is going to depend on young emerging players to grow into roles. IMO McD is still an option to establish himself as a piece for the future. He's got legit NBA skill but needs to learn how to hold his own on D like Korver did.

knicks1248
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10/18/2017  6:56 PM
nixluva wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
knickknack wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:The thing about a season like this, is if we lose 65 games, that would mean the entire team (with the exception of a player or 2) played really bad, or very inconsistent.

Do you remember when we won 17 games, what happen the next season, almost no one came back, we had like 12 new players the following season. There were guys on that team that were ok sometimes, shved, Jason smith, Galloway, Aldrich, larkin.

The worst part about this go around is that, almost 90% of the roster is signed through next season, so if they are brutally bad, were stuck with them

I disagree. much about winning games in the nba has to do with experience, the young players will almost certainly be inconsistent in many ways and that by itself will make the loses stack up. but as long as the good outweighs the bad then you can bring a player back and try and expect them to be better next year given another year of experience under their belt.

I actually think having all these young guys locked up is a good thing since we don't have to decide if they're big contract guys just yet. well, except for McD that is. haha

Here's the thing that people are not coming to grips with, 85% of the roster has 3 or more yrs experience, more than half the roster is straight up veterans..

Frank and Dotson are the only rookies, baker and willy are 2nd yr players so they are still wet behind the ears, ThJ, KANTAR, KP, McD, Lance, kuz, should be taking there games to new levels at this point in their careers.

So when you really look at it, this team is not as young as some of you make it out to be.

This is a case where something can be both true and irrelevant at the same time. The knicks have a fair amount of veterans on the squad yes, but no true impact players/leaders are veterans. No one is going to confuse Kantner with the real 'impact' player.

Hardaway is the closest thing to what you're trying to describe - a fifth year guy who you can reasonably predict will be fully formed sooner than later.

I'm sorry, any expectations at KP should already be near the top of his arc is just nonsense. We just saw Antetokounmpo make a quantum leap in year four. That should still be fresh in our memories.

honestly, this roster is made up of 15 bench players, and im not saying that in a bad way, im saying that like you can close your eyes and pick a player to start or coming off the bench.

If Mcd and Kuz play really well, do you bench lance and beasly, or visa versa, and worse, what if none of them out perform each other, then your really screwed cause who do you play, who do you bench, that's a major Challenge for any coaching staff

Despite committing the sin of not being embiid, to say Kp is an interchangable bench player is crazy time.

That said, your 15 man assessment maybe makes a lithe more sense in the context of "if you HAD to win tonight's game" who are your 5-10 guys.

But that isn't what the season is about. It's about development, and no that isn't about purging anyone over 26 either.

It's a ****tail of developing who will be your impact/leaders, and identifying roles players, and that doesn't mean throwing 5 rookies on the floor at all times.

YUP! Some may not respect THJ but he was a starter for a playoff team and he earned that! THJ was a top 15 SG last year after starting off poorly and doing a D League stint.

KP is a starter as is CLee! To be fair this Knicks roster is going to depend on young emerging players to grow into roles. IMO McD is still an option to establish himself as a piece for the future. He's got legit NBA skill but needs to learn how to hold his own on D like Korver did.

I think what some of you failed to acknowledge is that they're just 3 players on this roster that's going into yr 3 (kp, lance, KOQ) as a knick.

In the 2 season that KOQ and lance have been here, they have showed little to no improvement, and even though KP's numbers were up, most would agree his improvement has been minimal.

I think a lot of these players would be excel in their roles if they were playing with 2 stars.

Thats how McD would benefit, but hey, if JH can convince this team to play within themselves, pass the ball, and like 7 guys avg double figures, that can go a long way

ES
ekstarks94
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10/18/2017  9:21 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
reub wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:The Knicks are so deep. But I think they have to see what they have with Doug. Does Kuzminska play this year when the team is healthy?

We can literally put three separate units out there and they'd all be fairly equal. We are very deep. But how's our defense?

Houston stayed a tight 8 last night--if we did that there would be mutiny. This is a rubic's cube for sure.

Dantoni has a tight rotation anyway....I expect a larger rotation to see chemistry and fit at least for the first mth

ekstarks94
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10/18/2017  9:28 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/18/2017  9:30 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
knickknack wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:The thing about a season like this, is if we lose 65 games, that would mean the entire team (with the exception of a player or 2) played really bad, or very inconsistent.

Do you remember when we won 17 games, what happen the next season, almost no one came back, we had like 12 new players the following season. There were guys on that team that were ok sometimes, shved, Jason smith, Galloway, Aldrich, larkin.

The worst part about this go around is that, almost 90% of the roster is signed through next season, so if they are brutally bad, were stuck with them

I disagree. much about winning games in the nba has to do with experience, the young players will almost certainly be inconsistent in many ways and that by itself will make the loses stack up. but as long as the good outweighs the bad then you can bring a player back and try and expect them to be better next year given another year of experience under their belt.

I actually think having all these young guys locked up is a good thing since we don't have to decide if they're big contract guys just yet. well, except for McD that is. haha

Here's the thing that people are not coming to grips with, 85% of the roster has 3 or more yrs experience, more than half the roster is straight up veterans..

Frank and Dotson are the only rookies, baker and willy are 2nd yr players so they are still wet behind the ears, ThJ, KANTAR, KP, McD, Lance, kuz, should be taking there games to new levels at this point in their careers.

So when you really look at it, this team is not as young as some of you make it out to be.

This is a case where something can be both true and irrelevant at the same time. The knicks have a fair amount of veterans on the squad yes, but no true impact players/leaders are veterans. No one is going to confuse Kantner with the real 'impact' player.

Hardaway is the closest thing to what you're trying to describe - a fifth year guy who you can reasonably predict will be fully formed sooner than later.

I'm sorry, any expectations at KP should already be near the top of his arc is just nonsense. We just saw Antetokounmpo make a quantum leap in year four. That should still be fresh in our memories.

honestly, this roster is made up of 15 bench players, and im not saying that in a bad way, im saying that like you can close your eyes and pick a player to start or coming off the bench.

If Mcd and Kuz play really well, do you bench lance and beasly, or visa versa, and worse, what if none of them out perform each other, then your really screwed cause who do you play, who do you bench, that's a major Challenge for any coaching staff

Despite committing the sin of not being embiid, to say Kp is an interchangable bench player is crazy time.

That said, your 15 man assessment maybe makes a lithe more sense in the context of "if you HAD to win tonight's game" who are your 5-10 guys.

But that isn't what the season is about. It's about development, and no that isn't about purging anyone over 26 either.

It's a ****tail of developing who will be your impact/leaders, and identifying roles players, and that doesn't mean throwing 5 rookies on the floor at all times.

YUP! Some may not respect THJ but he was a starter for a playoff team and he earned that! THJ was a top 15 SG last year after starting off poorly and doing a D League stint.

KP is a starter as is CLee! To be fair this Knicks roster is going to depend on young emerging players to grow into roles. IMO McD is still an option to establish himself as a piece for the future. He's got legit NBA skill but needs to learn how to hold his own on D like Korver did.

I think what some of you failed to acknowledge is that they're just 3 players on this roster that's going into yr 3 (kp, lance, KOQ) as a knick.

In the 2 season that KOQ and lance have been here, they have showed little to no improvement, and even though KP's numbers were up, most would agree his improvement has been minimal.

I think a lot of these players would be excel in their roles if they were playing with 2 stars.

Thats how McD would benefit, but hey, if JH can convince this team to play within themselves, pass the ball, and like 7 guys avg double figures, that can go a long way

Not sure if you are watching the same game...lance was hurt last year...but the year prior he was getting his 3 & D legs..

KO....his value and improvement is there and when coupled with his contract numbers...his value is multiplied....the only thing is cannot jump for $hit...

KP....is all about consistency and having one killer go to post move when they stick wings to guard him to play physical....he is NOT taking those players off the dribble and they will strip him every time....he needs to have a move in the post that is either and automatic shot or automatic foul...or both

nixluva
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10/18/2017  10:11 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
knickknack wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:The thing about a season like this, is if we lose 65 games, that would mean the entire team (with the exception of a player or 2) played really bad, or very inconsistent.

Do you remember when we won 17 games, what happen the next season, almost no one came back, we had like 12 new players the following season. There were guys on that team that were ok sometimes, shved, Jason smith, Galloway, Aldrich, larkin.

The worst part about this go around is that, almost 90% of the roster is signed through next season, so if they are brutally bad, were stuck with them

I disagree. much about winning games in the nba has to do with experience, the young players will almost certainly be inconsistent in many ways and that by itself will make the loses stack up. but as long as the good outweighs the bad then you can bring a player back and try and expect them to be better next year given another year of experience under their belt.

I actually think having all these young guys locked up is a good thing since we don't have to decide if they're big contract guys just yet. well, except for McD that is. haha

Here's the thing that people are not coming to grips with, 85% of the roster has 3 or more yrs experience, more than half the roster is straight up veterans..

Frank and Dotson are the only rookies, baker and willy are 2nd yr players so they are still wet behind the ears, ThJ, KANTAR, KP, McD, Lance, kuz, should be taking there games to new levels at this point in their careers.

So when you really look at it, this team is not as young as some of you make it out to be.

This is a case where something can be both true and irrelevant at the same time. The knicks have a fair amount of veterans on the squad yes, but no true impact players/leaders are veterans. No one is going to confuse Kantner with the real 'impact' player.

Hardaway is the closest thing to what you're trying to describe - a fifth year guy who you can reasonably predict will be fully formed sooner than later.

I'm sorry, any expectations at KP should already be near the top of his arc is just nonsense. We just saw Antetokounmpo make a quantum leap in year four. That should still be fresh in our memories.

honestly, this roster is made up of 15 bench players, and im not saying that in a bad way, im saying that like you can close your eyes and pick a player to start or coming off the bench.

If Mcd and Kuz play really well, do you bench lance and beasly, or visa versa, and worse, what if none of them out perform each other, then your really screwed cause who do you play, who do you bench, that's a major Challenge for any coaching staff

Despite committing the sin of not being embiid, to say Kp is an interchangable bench player is crazy time.

That said, your 15 man assessment maybe makes a lithe more sense in the context of "if you HAD to win tonight's game" who are your 5-10 guys.

But that isn't what the season is about. It's about development, and no that isn't about purging anyone over 26 either.

It's a ****tail of developing who will be your impact/leaders, and identifying roles players, and that doesn't mean throwing 5 rookies on the floor at all times.

YUP! Some may not respect THJ but he was a starter for a playoff team and he earned that! THJ was a top 15 SG last year after starting off poorly and doing a D League stint.

KP is a starter as is CLee! To be fair this Knicks roster is going to depend on young emerging players to grow into roles. IMO McD is still an option to establish himself as a piece for the future. He's got legit NBA skill but needs to learn how to hold his own on D like Korver did.

I think what some of you failed to acknowledge is that they're just 3 players on this roster that's going into yr 3 (kp, lance, KOQ) as a knick.

In the 2 season that KOQ and lance have been here, they have showed little to no improvement, and even though KP's numbers were up, most would agree his improvement has been minimal.

I think a lot of these players would be excel in their roles if they were playing with 2 stars.

Thats how McD would benefit, but hey, if JH can convince this team to play within themselves, pass the ball, and like 7 guys avg double figures, that can go a long way

LT and KOQ aren't driving forces for this team so it's pointless to focus on them at all.

KP, THJ, Willy, Kanter, CLee, Sessions, Beasley, McDermott... are taking the bulk of the lives load this year. Kids like Ntilikina and Dotson will be pushing for a bigger role as the season progresses.

I like this roster! They've gotta really learn how to defend and if they do this is gonna be a competitive team.

jskinny35
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10/19/2017  12:16 AM
As much as we have about 13 one-way players, I think Hornacek has to play the defensive guys/vets and let them struggle to create offense. This means more L.Thomas then Doug, Kuz and Beasley, as much C.Lee as Hardaway (unless he D's up)... If he lets Hardaway and McDermott just chuck and play little D - he'll be toast by midseason. I like Hornacek but think he struggled with maintaining control of the team last year - no way can he let the youth learn bad habits and get rewarded for moderate defensive effort. I hope Hornacek can get them to play D, but he's never been a defensive kinda coach. I would love to see his Phx offense with the young guys, but I guess that depends on how ready Frank is... I'd go with this lineup to start, with hopes that either McDermott or Dotson improves enough defensively to take over the 3 spot...

Noah (after suspension)
KP
L.Thomas
Hardaway
Frank

Lee, Kanter, Dotson , O'Quinn and McDermott

Beasley, Jack/Sessions, Kuz

BRIGGS
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10/19/2017  12:24 AM
CrushAlot wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
reub wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:The Knicks are so deep. But I think they have to see what they have with Doug. Does Kuzminska play this year when the team is healthy?

We can literally put three separate units out there and they'd all be fairly equal. We are very deep. But how's our defense?

Houston stayed a tight 8 last night--if we did that there would be mutiny. This is a rubic's cube for sure.


Jeff's in a really tough position. He has vets on one year deals looking for their next contract, and young guys that are supposed to be about the new core. A trade to free up some of the roster log jams would be great. Not sure if there are teams looking for 8th or 9 th men though.

Yeah no doubt--its confusing. Here is another point. Usually in sports you need consistent playing time to find a rhythm in your game. We will have more than 1 person who is not able to find their mojo. I think we try to win so Im probably playing Kanter THJ and KP 30 minutes each. The other guys just need to come in and step up for PT. Certainly it will be competitive for PT

fishmike
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10/19/2017  8:34 AM
CrushAlot wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
reub wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:The Knicks are so deep. But I think they have to see what they have with Doug. Does Kuzminska play this year when the team is healthy?

We can literally put three separate units out there and they'd all be fairly equal. We are very deep. But how's our defense?

Houston stayed a tight 8 last night--if we did that there would be mutiny. This is a rubic's cube for sure.


Jeff's in a really tough position. He has vets on one year deals looking for their next contract, and young guys that are supposed to be about the new core. A trade to free up some of the roster log jams would be great. Not sure if there are teams looking for 8th or 9 th men though.
Like who? Sessions knows why he's here and if he's out of the rotation they will cut him after the deadline so he can catch on somewhere else. Jack? Did he even make the team? I think the only vet he's got to manage like that is Beas and I suspect he will have no problem getting him into games. Lee and Lance are signed up.

I think Jeff has a lot of options. The only guys who are going to be out there regardless of if they struggle are KP and Frank. I think Baker has to earn it and so does Willy with the center glut. If KOQ beats out Willy in the rotation its fine. Makes KOQ a valuable piece and Willy is here for 2 more years and KOQ is a free agent.

I think most of these things can work out organically.

There are some very redundant guys but thats life. Except for the high draft picks and Willy who we are commited to develop (include Dotson there) the rest of the minutes are up for grabs.

fishmike - Making UltimateKnicks great again
nixluva
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10/19/2017  10:14 AM
fishmike wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
reub wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:The Knicks are so deep. But I think they have to see what they have with Doug. Does Kuzminska play this year when the team is healthy?

We can literally put three separate units out there and they'd all be fairly equal. We are very deep. But how's our defense?

Houston stayed a tight 8 last night--if we did that there would be mutiny. This is a rubic's cube for sure.


Jeff's in a really tough position. He has vets on one year deals looking for their next contract, and young guys that are supposed to be about the new core. A trade to free up some of the roster log jams would be great. Not sure if there are teams looking for 8th or 9 th men though.
Like who? Sessions knows why he's here and if he's out of the rotation they will cut him after the deadline so he can catch on somewhere else. Jack? Did he even make the team? I think the only vet he's got to manage like that is Beas and I suspect he will have no problem getting him into games. Lee and Lance are signed up.

I think Jeff has a lot of options. The only guys who are going to be out there regardless of if they struggle are KP and Frank. I think Baker has to earn it and so does Willy with the center glut. If KOQ beats out Willy in the rotation its fine. Makes KOQ a valuable piece and Willy is here for 2 more years and KOQ is a free agent.

I think most of these things can work out organically.

There are some very redundant guys but thats life. Except for the high draft picks and Willy who we are commited to develop (include Dotson there) the rest of the minutes are up for grabs.

I agree. This is very much a Win/Win situation. Jeff just has to concentrate on coaching and play guys who earn it. It’s a LONG season and things will develop naturally.

We know that some moves are likely to be made at some point to clear the glut. These games will help to make decisions.

Knickoftime
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10/19/2017  10:34 AM
knicks1248 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
knickknack wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:The thing about a season like this, is if we lose 65 games, that would mean the entire team (with the exception of a player or 2) played really bad, or very inconsistent.

Do you remember when we won 17 games, what happen the next season, almost no one came back, we had like 12 new players the following season. There were guys on that team that were ok sometimes, shved, Jason smith, Galloway, Aldrich, larkin.

The worst part about this go around is that, almost 90% of the roster is signed through next season, so if they are brutally bad, were stuck with them

I disagree. much about winning games in the nba has to do with experience, the young players will almost certainly be inconsistent in many ways and that by itself will make the loses stack up. but as long as the good outweighs the bad then you can bring a player back and try and expect them to be better next year given another year of experience under their belt.

I actually think having all these young guys locked up is a good thing since we don't have to decide if they're big contract guys just yet. well, except for McD that is. haha

Here's the thing that people are not coming to grips with, 85% of the roster has 3 or more yrs experience, more than half the roster is straight up veterans..

Frank and Dotson are the only rookies, baker and willy are 2nd yr players so they are still wet behind the ears, ThJ, KANTAR, KP, McD, Lance, kuz, should be taking there games to new levels at this point in their careers.

So when you really look at it, this team is not as young as some of you make it out to be.

This is a case where something can be both true and irrelevant at the same time. The knicks have a fair amount of veterans on the squad yes, but no true impact players/leaders are veterans. No one is going to confuse Kantner with the real 'impact' player.

Hardaway is the closest thing to what you're trying to describe - a fifth year guy who you can reasonably predict will be fully formed sooner than later.

I'm sorry, any expectations at KP should already be near the top of his arc is just nonsense. We just saw Antetokounmpo make a quantum leap in year four. That should still be fresh in our memories.

honestly, this roster is made up of 15 bench players, and im not saying that in a bad way, im saying that like you can close your eyes and pick a player to start or coming off the bench.

If Mcd and Kuz play really well, do you bench lance and beasly, or visa versa, and worse, what if none of them out perform each other, then your really screwed cause who do you play, who do you bench, that's a major Challenge for any coaching staff

Despite committing the sin of not being embiid, to say Kp is an interchangable bench player is crazy time.

That said, your 15 man assessment maybe makes a lithe more sense in the context of "if you HAD to win tonight's game" who are your 5-10 guys.

But that isn't what the season is about. It's about development, and no that isn't about purging anyone over 26 either.

It's a ****tail of developing who will be your impact/leaders, and identifying roles players, and that doesn't mean throwing 5 rookies on the floor at all times.

YUP! Some may not respect THJ but he was a starter for a playoff team and he earned that! THJ was a top 15 SG last year after starting off poorly and doing a D League stint.

KP is a starter as is CLee! To be fair this Knicks roster is going to depend on young emerging players to grow into roles. IMO McD is still an option to establish himself as a piece for the future. He's got legit NBA skill but needs to learn how to hold his own on D like Korver did.

I think what some of you failed to acknowledge is that they're just 3 players on this roster that's going into yr 3 (kp, lance, KOQ) as a knick.

In the 2 season that KOQ and lance have been here, they have showed little to no improvement, and even though KP's numbers were up, most would agree his improvement has been minimal.

The NBA is a talent-starved league. I don't where you get this idea that every player should be on some upwardly-mobile trajectory. Some guys are just good enough to fill a role.

I think a lot of these players would be excel in their roles if they were playing with 2 stars.

Who?

Ira
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10/19/2017  11:29 AM
I agree that Jeff should work with and play the guys who earn the time. I doubt McDermott will fall into that category.
FrenchFreak
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10/19/2017  11:51 AM
You'd be hard pressed to find a deeper bad basketball team than our 2017 Knicks. It's a very weird situation. Regardless of what they do they're probably not going to win much so it's imperative they move a body or three soon. The logjam fighting for minutes would be improved greatly by moving (for instance) KOQ, Thomas and Lee. I don't see any of them being long term pieces.

I see McBuckets as a catch 22. If he's mediocre this year his price will be low next year but you won't want him. If he's good somebody is going to pay him more than he's reasonably worth to the Knicks. Your chances of building an above average team for the long run decline greatly if you start paying guys like McD 10M+ per year.

nixluva
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10/19/2017  12:14 PM
FrenchFreak wrote:You'd be hard pressed to find a deeper bad basketball team than our 2017 Knicks. It's a very weird situation. Regardless of what they do they're probably not going to win much so it's imperative they move a body or three soon. The logjam fighting for minutes would be improved greatly by moving (for instance) KOQ, Thomas and Lee. I don't see any of them being long term pieces.

I see McBuckets as a catch 22. If he's mediocre this year his price will be low next year but you won't want him. If he's good somebody is going to pay him more than he's reasonably worth to the Knicks. Your chances of building an above average team for the long run decline greatly if you start paying guys like McD 10M+ per year.

It really depends on how McD plays! I saw some VERY good things from him. He came out of college as a high level offensive player but his D was subpar. If he can get to at least decent level D and high level Offense then I can see some legit value.

reub
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10/19/2017  4:37 PM
nixluva wrote:
FrenchFreak wrote:You'd be hard pressed to find a deeper bad basketball team than our 2017 Knicks. It's a very weird situation. Regardless of what they do they're probably not going to win much so it's imperative they move a body or three soon. The logjam fighting for minutes would be improved greatly by moving (for instance) KOQ, Thomas and Lee. I don't see any of them being long term pieces.

I see McBuckets as a catch 22. If he's mediocre this year his price will be low next year but you won't want him. If he's good somebody is going to pay him more than he's reasonably worth to the Knicks. Your chances of building an above average team for the long run decline greatly if you start paying guys like McD 10M+ per year.

It really depends on how McD plays! I saw some VERY good things from him. He came out of college as a high level offensive player but his D was subpar. If he can get to at least decent level D and high level Offense then I can see some legit value.

McBuckets has some of the worst steal, block and defensive stats in history. I hope that he can prove me wrong but I doubt it. Knowing this, he better shoot lights out like Novak did.

GustavBahler
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10/19/2017  5:25 PM
reub wrote:
nixluva wrote:
FrenchFreak wrote:You'd be hard pressed to find a deeper bad basketball team than our 2017 Knicks. It's a very weird situation. Regardless of what they do they're probably not going to win much so it's imperative they move a body or three soon. The logjam fighting for minutes would be improved greatly by moving (for instance) KOQ, Thomas and Lee. I don't see any of them being long term pieces.

I see McBuckets as a catch 22. If he's mediocre this year his price will be low next year but you won't want him. If he's good somebody is going to pay him more than he's reasonably worth to the Knicks. Your chances of building an above average team for the long run decline greatly if you start paying guys like McD 10M+ per year.

It really depends on how McD plays! I saw some VERY good things from him. He came out of college as a high level offensive player but his D was subpar. If he can get to at least decent level D and high level Offense then I can see some legit value.

McBuckets has some of the worst steal, block and defensive stats in history. I hope that he can prove me wrong but I doubt it. Knowing this, he better shoot lights out like Novak did.

I would take McDermott over Novak any day. Novak wouldnt do anything inside the arc, and he had a lot of trouble scoring while closely guarded, unlike a 3 pt shooter like Korver.

Neither played D, but McDermott is a more complete player offensively. You're right that defense has to be there in some form.

nixluva
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10/19/2017  5:35 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
reub wrote:
nixluva wrote:
FrenchFreak wrote:You'd be hard pressed to find a deeper bad basketball team than our 2017 Knicks. It's a very weird situation. Regardless of what they do they're probably not going to win much so it's imperative they move a body or three soon. The logjam fighting for minutes would be improved greatly by moving (for instance) KOQ, Thomas and Lee. I don't see any of them being long term pieces.

I see McBuckets as a catch 22. If he's mediocre this year his price will be low next year but you won't want him. If he's good somebody is going to pay him more than he's reasonably worth to the Knicks. Your chances of building an above average team for the long run decline greatly if you start paying guys like McD 10M+ per year.

It really depends on how McD plays! I saw some VERY good things from him. He came out of college as a high level offensive player but his D was subpar. If he can get to at least decent level D and high level Offense then I can see some legit value.

McBuckets has some of the worst steal, block and defensive stats in history. I hope that he can prove me wrong but I doubt it. Knowing this, he better shoot lights out like Novak did.

I would take McDermott over Novak any day. Novak wouldnt do anything inside the arc, and he had a lot of trouble scoring while closely guarded, unlike a 3 pt shooter like Korver.

Neither played D, but McDermott is a more complete player offensively. You're right that defense has to be there in some form.

IMO McDermott has more ability than Novak or Korver. He’s got a higher upside. You can use McD in more ways. He is in a great situation to display his full talent here.

Doug McDermott, rental or building block??

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