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We are going to lose first 21 games in RS
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nixluva
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10/13/2017  6:10 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
nixluva wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
nixluva wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
nixluva wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
anrst wrote:when does Horny get canned?
All Star break? I think he should have been let go with Phil a long with Rambis if the goal was to have a fresh start and get rid of the dysfunction. Too much drama and losing last year on his watch. I don't think he has a roster he can win with and I don't think he will be able to get his guys to play all out for him like Kenny Atkinson is in Brooklyn. GMs need their own coach. Hopefully Perry chooses a good once Jeff is gone.

EVERY COACH needs players. Jeff isn't coaching the 2004 Pistons! Heck we just drafted Ntilikina and Dotson as the kind of 2Way players you need. The bulk of the team is full of bottom of the league defenders just as it was last season.

IMO you can only do so much to get players to improve. Horrible offensive players tend to continue to be horrible as do horrible defensive players. That's why you draft high level 2Way players. Jeff has an extremely tough job. He deserves a full chance to show what he can do but we know the task is tough. It's not because of Jeff that the Knicks are predicted to win less than 30 games!!!

Jeff was a big part of the mess and dysfunction from last year. KP skipped his exit meeting in part because of Jeff. Jeff had locker room troubles last year and some of that is on him. A lot of those guys from last year are back. Winning might fix those old issues. This team isn't going to win and has guys on it that already have had an unsuccessful experience with Jeff. Jeff doesn't ave a roster that is going to win a lot of games. But he does have a young team. If his team isn't playing hard for him he should be let go. I think he might have too much baggage to overcome with his returning players to get them to the place where they need to be as a team.

You and Woj keep pushing this idea that Jeff has some lingering issues with players still on the team from last year. Who do you see that's carrying or harboring an attitude this year? KP is only talking about wanting to win this year and I can't think of any other player that even remotely looks like he's got a problem with Jeff!

It's funny but I don't see Jeff's coaching stopping players from giving Max Effort like Dotson. If he had a bunch of players with his kind of desire that would make a huge difference. IMO it always starts with the players and the coach is there to guide, instruct and squeeze even more out each player but he can't magically create what isn't there.

Woj definitely has an agenda when it comes to Phil. I listened to Begley on Woj's pod and he did say that guys last year were frustrated with Jeff and that Jeff had to work on overcoming that. But Begley is with the team everyday and said some guys talked to him about this. So yeah, I think it is an issue. I think you are right about guys that are trying to get a roster spot putting out max effort. I am saying I don't think Jeff is going to be able to squeeze more out of each player on this team. I have mostly been watching the Yankees but I haven't seen the effort you describe so far when I watch the preseason games. Jeff is getting a chance. We disagree on whether his returning was the best thing for the team after what happened last year. I hope he is very successful and gets the culture right and the team playing the right way. Unfortunately, I don't think that is going to happen and I will be extremely surprised if he is back for the 18-19 season.

See I'm not convinced of these Begley or Woj angles cuz I think there are a few VETS from last year that I can easily imagine saying the kind of crap that they're talking about. We had a lot of Rookies last year and I know they weren't the ones talking. That leaves guys like Rose, Melo, CLee and Jennings. I can be pretty sure that some of these guys were doing the talking!!!

CLee seems to be just fine with things so I'm going to guess he's not carrying over any ill will towards Jeff. I'm not concerned with 1 or 2 guys being a little bent out of shape. What you're pointing to would be a HUGE problem if it was more like 5 or 6 guys, which I see ZERO evidence for believing is that case with this current roster. At this early stage of the season, i'm willing to bet everyone is on board and pulling in the same direction.

They may lose games but it's not necessarily cuz they've got an issue with Jeff. I'd put lack of talent hire up on the list. They're already behind most of the league due to injuries and youth. I don't expect they'll be able to fix all the issues by the 1st game of the season. We do need to see some progress over the 1st quarter of the season.

When Woj asked Begley about this he was asking about carry over to this year. I don't think Begley has an issue with Jeff or everything that Phil did like Woj.

Yeah but WHO? It may not even be anyone of consequence. IMO this is a low level issue among much bigger issues surrounding getting the Defense fixed and rotation settled.

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CrushAlot
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10/13/2017  6:23 PM
nixluva wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
nixluva wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
nixluva wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
nixluva wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
anrst wrote:when does Horny get canned?
All Star break? I think he should have been let go with Phil a long with Rambis if the goal was to have a fresh start and get rid of the dysfunction. Too much drama and losing last year on his watch. I don't think he has a roster he can win with and I don't think he will be able to get his guys to play all out for him like Kenny Atkinson is in Brooklyn. GMs need their own coach. Hopefully Perry chooses a good once Jeff is gone.

EVERY COACH needs players. Jeff isn't coaching the 2004 Pistons! Heck we just drafted Ntilikina and Dotson as the kind of 2Way players you need. The bulk of the team is full of bottom of the league defenders just as it was last season.

IMO you can only do so much to get players to improve. Horrible offensive players tend to continue to be horrible as do horrible defensive players. That's why you draft high level 2Way players. Jeff has an extremely tough job. He deserves a full chance to show what he can do but we know the task is tough. It's not because of Jeff that the Knicks are predicted to win less than 30 games!!!

Jeff was a big part of the mess and dysfunction from last year. KP skipped his exit meeting in part because of Jeff. Jeff had locker room troubles last year and some of that is on him. A lot of those guys from last year are back. Winning might fix those old issues. This team isn't going to win and has guys on it that already have had an unsuccessful experience with Jeff. Jeff doesn't ave a roster that is going to win a lot of games. But he does have a young team. If his team isn't playing hard for him he should be let go. I think he might have too much baggage to overcome with his returning players to get them to the place where they need to be as a team.

You and Woj keep pushing this idea that Jeff has some lingering issues with players still on the team from last year. Who do you see that's carrying or harboring an attitude this year? KP is only talking about wanting to win this year and I can't think of any other player that even remotely looks like he's got a problem with Jeff!

It's funny but I don't see Jeff's coaching stopping players from giving Max Effort like Dotson. If he had a bunch of players with his kind of desire that would make a huge difference. IMO it always starts with the players and the coach is there to guide, instruct and squeeze even more out each player but he can't magically create what isn't there.

Woj definitely has an agenda when it comes to Phil. I listened to Begley on Woj's pod and he did say that guys last year were frustrated with Jeff and that Jeff had to work on overcoming that. But Begley is with the team everyday and said some guys talked to him about this. So yeah, I think it is an issue. I think you are right about guys that are trying to get a roster spot putting out max effort. I am saying I don't think Jeff is going to be able to squeeze more out of each player on this team. I have mostly been watching the Yankees but I haven't seen the effort you describe so far when I watch the preseason games. Jeff is getting a chance. We disagree on whether his returning was the best thing for the team after what happened last year. I hope he is very successful and gets the culture right and the team playing the right way. Unfortunately, I don't think that is going to happen and I will be extremely surprised if he is back for the 18-19 season.

See I'm not convinced of these Begley or Woj angles cuz I think there are a few VETS from last year that I can easily imagine saying the kind of crap that they're talking about. We had a lot of Rookies last year and I know they weren't the ones talking. That leaves guys like Rose, Melo, CLee and Jennings. I can be pretty sure that some of these guys were doing the talking!!!

CLee seems to be just fine with things so I'm going to guess he's not carrying over any ill will towards Jeff. I'm not concerned with 1 or 2 guys being a little bent out of shape. What you're pointing to would be a HUGE problem if it was more like 5 or 6 guys, which I see ZERO evidence for believing is that case with this current roster. At this early stage of the season, i'm willing to bet everyone is on board and pulling in the same direction.

They may lose games but it's not necessarily cuz they've got an issue with Jeff. I'd put lack of talent hire up on the list. They're already behind most of the league due to injuries and youth. I don't expect they'll be able to fix all the issues by the 1st game of the season. We do need to see some progress over the 1st quarter of the season.

When Woj asked Begley about this he was asking about carry over to this year. I don't think Begley has an issue with Jeff or everything that Phil did like Woj.

Yeah but WHO? It may not even be anyone of consequence. IMO this is a low level issue among much bigger issues surrounding getting the Defense fixed and rotation settled.

Obviously guys that were on the team last year that are back. I think you can rule out Baker.
I think we know what we're doing..... Phil Jackson
Jmpasq
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10/13/2017  9:02 PM
Vmart wrote:No they will not lose the first 21. They are going to play well. Hover around 500 all season.

no chance, i would be shocked if we win 30

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smackeddog
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10/14/2017  4:32 AM
nixluva wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
anrst wrote:when does Horny get canned?
All Star break? I think he should have been let go with Phil a long with Rambis if the goal was to have a fresh start and get rid of the dysfunction. Too much drama and losing last year on his watch. I don't think he has a roster he can win with and I don't think he will be able to get his guys to play all out for him like Kenny Atkinson is in Brooklyn. GMs need their own coach. Hopefully Perry chooses a good once Jeff is gone.

EVERY COACH needs players. Jeff isn't coaching the 2004 Pistons! Heck we just drafted Ntilikina and Dotson as the kind of 2Way players you need. The bulk of the team is full of bottom of the league defenders just as it was last season.

IMO you can only do so much to get players to improve. Horrible offensive players tend to continue to be horrible as do horrible defensive players. That's why you draft high level 2Way players. Jeff has an extremely tough job. He deserves a full chance to show what he can do but we know the task is tough. It's not because of Jeff that the Knicks are predicted to win less than 30 games!!!

I'm not a fan on Hornacek at all- can you honestly say you think he'll get the most out his players defensively? this is the coach who didn't even bother with any defensive scheme last year in the first preseason game (set the tone!), didn't have a defensive specialist until Phil made him give that assignment to Rambis. Both preseasons he just comes across as inept- he seems unable to fit the basics into preseason (oh, we won't have time to get to that or that so we're just going to work on the basics and fold in the other stuff later). I've never heard anything like it.

TheGame
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10/14/2017  4:49 AM
Let me be the first to say we will match last seasons record. We eliminated our worst two defenders, thjr will replace melo's offense (with better efficiency), and by February, Frank will have solidified himself as our pg for the next 10 years.
Playoffs or bust
Jmpasq
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10/14/2017  7:41 AM
TheGame wrote:Let me be the first to say we will match last seasons record. We eliminated our worst two defenders, thjr will replace melo's offense (with better efficiency), and by February, Frank will have solidified himself as our pg for the next 10 years.

I dont see it after watching the preseason especially since KP and Frank can't get on the court to build any chemistry with the new players. I do believe they will be a better team and play close to .500 the 2nd half but the first half I expect to be a total and unequivocal disaster

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knicks1248
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10/14/2017  10:23 AM
TheGame wrote:Let me be the first to say we will match last seasons record. We eliminated our worst two defenders, thjr will replace melo's offense (with better efficiency), and by February, Frank will have solidified himself as our pg for the next 10 years.

kanter and McDermott are horrible defenders, beasly is a horrible defender, session, THj and jack, are ok at best.

The team lost a ton of games last yr in the last 5 minutes from piss poor execution on offense, and absent minded defense.

We couldn't win 2 games in a row because of the constant change and confusion. This is a direct reflection on the coaching staff. when I sat and watch open cout forum with some of the best coaches in the league, they all 100% agreed that coaching comes down to the last 5 minutes of a game.

JH is suited more to be an assistant, especial with a ROSTeR like this

ES
nixluva
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10/14/2017  1:45 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
TheGame wrote:Let me be the first to say we will match last seasons record. We eliminated our worst two defenders, thjr will replace melo's offense (with better efficiency), and by February, Frank will have solidified himself as our pg for the next 10 years.

kanter and McDermott are horrible defenders, beasly is a horrible defender, session, THj and jack, are ok at best.

The team lost a ton of games last yr in the last 5 minutes from piss poor execution on offense, and absent minded defense.

We couldn't win 2 games in a row because of the constant change and confusion. This is a direct reflection on the coaching staff. when I sat and watch open cout forum with some of the best coaches in the league, they all 100% agreed that coaching comes down to the last 5 minutes of a game.

JH is suited more to be an assistant, especial with a ROSTeR like this

PLEASE! We all watched Jeff's disgust when DRose or Melo broke plays and then took horrid shots or turned the ball over, game after game! It starts and ends with your lead players execution. Jeff isn't as bad as his selfish players made him look. He's not Popovich but Jeff isn't the worst coach in the NBA either.

I can see some signs of improvement and I expect once the rotation is established and they develop chemistry this team should be more competitive. For a rebuilding team being competitive would be a good sign.

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10/14/2017  3:06 PM
If the Knicks can be the best of the worst in a top heavy league they will make the playoffs with ease. The way Insee it there are really 5 teams the Knicks have to worry about. They probably get swept but they could easily make up ground to 500 by beating up on the weak or splitting some of this series.

Cavs, Boston, Warriors, Houston, OKC and Spurs the Knicks get swept 0-16. Maybe they pull out a game or two but let’s just say they get swept. The rest of the league if they can win 16 series and split the rest they are 500. There are a lot of crappy teams out there and I can see the Knicks taking advantage of these teams. I can also see some of these teams taking advantage of the Knicks. If the Knicks play 500 basketball with these other team look for the Knicks to win 33 games. 33-49.

fishmike
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10/15/2017  10:22 AM
Vmart wrote:If the Knicks can be the best of the worst in a top heavy league they will make the playoffs with ease. The way Insee it there are really 5 teams the Knicks have to worry about. They probably get swept but they could easily make up ground to 500 by beating up on the weak or splitting some of this series.

Cavs, Boston, Warriors, Houston, OKC and Spurs the Knicks get swept 0-16. Maybe they pull out a game or two but let’s just say they get swept. The rest of the league if they can win 16 series and split the rest they are 500. There are a lot of crappy teams out there and I can see the Knicks taking advantage of these teams. I can also see some of these teams taking advantage of the Knicks. If the Knicks play 500 basketball with these other team look for the Knicks to win 33 games. 33-49.

yea so I see this as well and think its feasible. However one would be foolish to say probable, because the Knicks havent shown anything like it.

I think there is a lot of potential for Jeff to mix and match line ups on the floor. If Noah is playing as well as its been reported I really like some 4-1 type line ups with Noah/Willy at the 5 and Frank/THjr/Lee/Dotson on the floor. I think that could be very effective on both ends of the floor for 8-10 minute stretches. I also like the idea of big line ups with Kanter/KP up front along with McBuckets/Lee/Baker. Kanter is a bulldozer and while we may be slow defensively we should certainly clog the paint and clean the glass.

If none of those things work or happen and the Knicks dont win games that is what it is, and if thats the case you hope to see guys growing and you hope we are in a position to sell at the deadline and guys like KOQ/Lee can fetch us something on draft day.

Gut feeling says we win about the same amount of games we did last year. I like Jeff but he hasnt shown anything yet. Not here. I think the strength of the team are the combos of Lee/Dotson/THjr and Kanter/Willy/Noah/KP. Two of those guys from each of those groups and I feel like we have some talent on the floor that can do things, but again... they have shown nada. If we fight hard against OKC and they win it on Westbrook heroics in the final position I will raise an eyebrow and give you a hmmmm

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CrushAlot
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10/15/2017  10:53 AM
I think we know what we're doing..... Phil Jackson
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10/15/2017  11:18 AM
CrushAlot wrote:

Sounds about right for a completely retooled team trying to figure out its lineups while missing its best player for most games and its prized rookie for most games.

knicks1248
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10/15/2017  11:27 AM
CrushAlot wrote:

you want to tell me that has nothing to do with the coaching staff?

Then they will fumbling around for the first 25 games with different rotations, different starting lineups, different 6th man every night. The only thing that was establish this entire preseason is that KANTAR, THJ, and KP should start.

I hate when you have a team full of players (2k ratings 73-76)because no one really separates or establish themselves from the other player, and their roles become confusing, especially when we have no leader whatsoever.

When players got to look over their shoulders after every missed assignment, or a few miss shots, thats a recipe for disaster.

The KEY to winning is establishing, ROLES, ROTATION, and SYSTEM, and the coaching staff has failed miserably

ES
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10/15/2017  3:55 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:

you want to tell me that has nothing to do with the coaching staff?

Then they will fumbling around for the first 25 games with different rotations, different starting lineups, different 6th man every night. The only thing that was establish this entire preseason is that KANTAR, THJ, and KP should start.

I hate when you have a team full of players (2k ratings 73-76)because no one really separates or establish themselves from the other player, and their roles become confusing, especially when we have no leader whatsoever.

When players got to look over their shoulders after every missed assignment, or a few miss shots, thats a recipe for disaster.

The KEY to winning is establishing, ROLES, ROTATION, and SYSTEM, and the coaching staff has failed miserably

Yep we have to many back end rotation players with no clear cut starters.

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fishmike
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10/15/2017  5:21 PM
Jmpasq wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:

you want to tell me that has nothing to do with the coaching staff?

Then they will fumbling around for the first 25 games with different rotations, different starting lineups, different 6th man every night. The only thing that was establish this entire preseason is that KANTAR, THJ, and KP should start.

I hate when you have a team full of players (2k ratings 73-76)because no one really separates or establish themselves from the other player, and their roles become confusing, especially when we have no leader whatsoever.

When players got to look over their shoulders after every missed assignment, or a few miss shots, thats a recipe for disaster.

The KEY to winning is establishing, ROLES, ROTATION, and SYSTEM, and the coaching staff has failed miserably

Yep we have to many back end rotation players with no clear cut starters.

Yea I dont understand why they just didnt add more talent. A couple all stars why they are at it. But nooooo they have to do it their way
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TripleThreat
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10/15/2017  6:11 PM
knicks1248 wrote:you want to tell me that has nothing to do with the coaching staff?

It has VERY LITTLE to do with the coaching staff. I won't say "Nothing"

You know what a common saying in the NFL is? "Well, Barry Switzer has a Super Bowl ring"

A lot of established college coaches want NOTHING to do with the NBA. Coach K is a living God at Duke, he's gonna give that up for some BS diva player telling him to go f**k himself because he'd rather work on his next failed rap video instead of playing defense/passing the ball/putting out actual effort?

A lot of veteran coaches just decided to hang it up ( Rudy T, Sloan, etc) instead of dealing with the crap involved.

Some just stayed in broadcasting ( Jeff Van Gundy)

The Knicks run very very very dangerously of being a situation where only rookie coaches on their first job looking to build a resume for their 2nd job, or retreads who have no other options, will want the head coaching job.

This is NOT a playoff team. Chuck Daly and John Wooden with a dose of Bill Walsh and Billy Beane could not turn this into a playoff team.

It's easy to blame the coaches. If the NBA had widespread use of non guaranteed contracts like the NFL, you'd see a far different narrative. STAT actually works hard every day, all day, on his defense, instead of taking wine baths, if he knows he can get cut at any time and get no more money going forward.

The problem with the NBA is NOT the coaches absolutely ( some coaches suck, granted, but they cannot be the problem all the time for every team as is the current narrative in the press) it's the contract system in place.

Andres Biedriens got a fat deal, then decided he didn't care and spent his time being a gigantic club rat. He literally gave up any desire for basketball so he could grind to Jay Z with EDM going on and Tinder thots rubbing up on him. You can't coach an @sshole.

It's really easy to blame the coaches in the NBA. Sometimes the coaches are idiots. But most of the time? The players are just a bunch of @ssholes and the system is designed to let them be douchebags. Blaming Hornacek only changes the narrative, it doesn't change the actual plot.

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Nalod
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11/8/2017  12:38 AM
knicks1248 wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:

you want to tell me that has nothing to do with the coaching staff?

Then they will fumbling around for the first 25 games with different rotations, different starting lineups, different 6th man every night. The only thing that was establish this entire preseason is that KANTAR, THJ, and KP should start.

I hate when you have a team full of players (2k ratings 73-76)because no one really separates or establish themselves from the other player, and their roles become confusing, especially when we have no leader whatsoever.

When players got to look over their shoulders after every missed assignment, or a few miss shots, thats a recipe for disaster.

The KEY to winning is establishing, ROLES, ROTATION, and SYSTEM, and the coaching staff has failed miserably

Awesome!

Anger sells, don't buy!
GustavBahler
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11/8/2017  12:44 AM
Nalod wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:

you want to tell me that has nothing to do with the coaching staff?

Then they will fumbling around for the first 25 games with different rotations, different starting lineups, different 6th man every night. The only thing that was establish this entire preseason is that KANTAR, THJ, and KP should start.

I hate when you have a team full of players (2k ratings 73-76)because no one really separates or establish themselves from the other player, and their roles become confusing, especially when we have no leader whatsoever.

When players got to look over their shoulders after every missed assignment, or a few miss shots, thats a recipe for disaster.

The KEY to winning is establishing, ROLES, ROTATION, and SYSTEM, and the coaching staff has failed miserably

Awesome!

This is why you came back?

Gudris
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11/8/2017  3:28 AM
i must apologize to KP and all the Knicks team for not believing in them :( my mistake :(

sorry guys

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11/8/2017  7:35 AM
GustavBahler wrote:
Nalod wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:

you want to tell me that has nothing to do with the coaching staff?

Then they will fumbling around for the first 25 games with different rotations, different starting lineups, different 6th man every night. The only thing that was establish this entire preseason is that KANTAR, THJ, and KP should start.

I hate when you have a team full of players (2k ratings 73-76)because no one really separates or establish themselves from the other player, and their roles become confusing, especially when we have no leader whatsoever.

When players got to look over their shoulders after every missed assignment, or a few miss shots, thats a recipe for disaster.

The KEY to winning is establishing, ROLES, ROTATION, and SYSTEM, and the coaching staff has failed miserably

Awesome!

This is why you came back?

Break time is officially over, fellas! It's too good to stay away! Even if one has books to read!

You guys spend a lot of time commenting on the internet?
We are going to lose first 21 games in RS

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