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Starting lineup?
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reub
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10/12/2017  9:07 AM
martin wrote:How about going all in on rebuild:

I like this lineup for later in the season. For now I'd go with:

KP
Kanter
Beasley or Lee
THJ
Frank

AUTOADVERT
HofstraBBall
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10/12/2017  9:11 AM    LAST EDITED: 10/13/2017  1:35 PM
reub wrote:
martin wrote:How about going all in on rebuild:

I like this lineup for later in the season. For now I'd go with:

KP
Kanter
Beasley or Lee
THJ
Frank

Like Dotson/Shump for defense. Hope he has a better offensive game than
Shump. Which he has shown in pre season.

I suspect that Willy, KP, Tim, Lee and Frank will get the first crack.

Melo Haters = Lin lovers who are mad Houston paid so much for his 15 Minutes,
nixluva
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10/12/2017  5:48 PM
It looks like we could see a SL of Sessions, THJ, CLee, Kanter and KP. The main reason is the mobility on the perimeter and a strong roll man like Kanter on offense.
reub
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10/12/2017  7:26 PM
I actually think that Ndour would fit with a lineup of KP, Kanter, Frank and THJ. Imagine the length with him, KP and Frank. Can we bring him back?
Knixkik
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10/12/2017  7:53 PM
nixluva wrote:It looks like we could see a SL of Sessions, THJ, CLee, Kanter and KP. The main reason is the mobility on the perimeter and a strong roll man like Kanter on offense.

It makes sense to me.

awe1028
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10/12/2017  8:19 PM
Although the Knicks won't do it the lineup/rotation should be:

Kanter/Willie
KP/Willie
Beas/Clee/THJR
DD/THJr/CLee
Frank/Baker

This offers the best blend of offense and defense. Frank and DD along with Baker are the best perimeter defenders however they have significantly better offensive upside so they get the nod.

Beas has actually looked pretty good defensively and certainly has the measurables if not the desire at least thus far in his career to excel at that end. And we all know he can fill it up. Beas believes he is a lot better than what he has been given credit for remember his "I'm a walking bucket comment" and as such has something to prove which could translate to consistency on defense.

KP has shown flashes. Kanter gets the edge over Willie because they are both bad on defense but Kanter is at this point the better offensive player. An argument could be made for Noah because of his defense but based off last year his defensive ability seems to have slipped considerably

This lineup also gives the Knicks the chance to evaluate the youngster to see who fits best moving forward and also gives the youngsters the much needed playing time.

TripleThreat
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10/12/2017  10:21 PM
nixluva wrote:It looks like we could see a SL of Sessions, THJ, CLee, Kanter and KP. The main reason is the mobility on the perimeter and a strong roll man like Kanter on offense.


Any lineup with Kanter will likely have to negate Zinger out of the lineup.

Basically Kanter is going to need to be hidden defensively and the Knicks can only throw out a "hopeful" defensive lineup around him.

Baker, THJr, Lee and Lance Thomas. Lee is going to have to run the offense. (Ugh...) Floor spacing would still be ugly, but any Kanter/Zinger lineup would reduce Zinger to a spot up shooter.

This team just won't cut it defensively, their best hope for any kind of competitive basketball is to run and gun. Push the pace and try to hammer teams in transition. If Burke makes the team, and it's a huge IF, he cannot be in the same lineup as Kanter. I'd say McDermott and Kanter are also a no go. As well as Beasley and Kanter. Not saying that's possible, just saying the defense will crater at those points to something bizarre and painful.

Sorry guys, there is no magical roster combination that will make this squad look good. The parts don't fit well together. And they don't fit so great individually either.

At some point, knowing he will get fired anyway, Hornacek will eventually revert to his best 5 players in his lineup, regardless of position and see what happens. Lee can't really run an offense, but he's going to have to do it more than he wants to do it, because the Knicks don't really have a choice. Expectations of Dotson and Ntilikina have to be tempered. They are rookies, you can make wild demands of rookies in their first year of NBA play.

Since you came on this board you have been way off in regards to trade value. - Briggs 7/28/2015
EwingsGlass
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10/12/2017  10:24 PM
TripleThreat wrote:
nixluva wrote:It looks like we could see a SL of Sessions, THJ, CLee, Kanter and KP. The main reason is the mobility on the perimeter and a strong roll man like Kanter on offense.


Any lineup with Kanter will likely have to negate Zinger out of the lineup.

Basically Kanter is going to need to be hidden defensively and the Knicks can only throw out a "hopeful" defensive lineup around him.

Baker, THJr, Lee and Lance Thomas. Lee is going to have to run the offense. (Ugh...) Floor spacing would still be ugly, but any Kanter/Zinger lineup would reduce Zinger to a spot up shooter.

This team just won't cut it defensively, their best hope for any kind of competitive basketball is to run and gun. Push the pace and try to hammer teams in transition. If Burke makes the team, and it's a huge IF, he cannot be in the same lineup as Kanter. I'd say McDermott and Kanter are also a no go. As well as Beasley and Kanter. Not saying that's possible, just saying the defense will crater at those points to something bizarre and painful.

Sorry guys, there is no magical roster combination that will make this squad look good. The parts don't fit well together. And they don't fit so great individually either.

At some point, knowing he will get fired anyway, Hornacek will eventually revert to his best 5 players in his lineup, regardless of position and see what happens. Lee can't really run an offense, but he's going to have to do it more than he wants to do it, because the Knicks don't really have a choice. Expectations of Dotson and Ntilikina have to be tempered. They are rookies, you can make wild demands of rookies in their first year of NBA play.

I haven't caught any pre season games yet. Even with lost weight, Kanter still lagging heavily on D? I would think the weight loss would help with the lateral quickness. Doesn't change footwork though.

babyKnicks
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10/13/2017  8:19 AM
https://www.postingandtoasting.com/platform/amp/2017/10/12/16467450/knicks-practice-notes-10-12-17-tim-hardaway-jr-and-courtney-lee-could-start-together

Only question left is whether kantner or willie starts. Pg also open but not sure. I think sessions. Beasley seems to be a lock for 6th man.

Let's go Knicks. That's amare
Vmart
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10/13/2017  9:11 AM
Not much of a youth movement if they start Sessions and Lee together. Honestly I would start Beasley at SF. He bring more rebounding and Athleticism. KP is a poor rebounder and that area needs to be covered up.

Eventually I see sessions being displaced by Ntlikina. Lee should be sixth man I think he will thrive in that role.

Knixkik
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10/13/2017  11:14 AM
Vmart wrote:Not much of a youth movement if they start Sessions and Lee together. Honestly I would start Beasley at SF. He bring more rebounding and Athleticism. KP is a poor rebounder and that area needs to be covered up.

Eventually I see sessions being displaced by Ntlikina. Lee should be sixth man I think he will thrive in that role.


Ntlikina will eventually start, leaving lee as the only vet in the lineup. He is a good influence and plays hard on both ends, so I think it's smart to keep him in there. Next off-season should be focused on finding a long term SF.
NYKBocker
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10/13/2017  11:25 AM
Vmart wrote:Not much of a youth movement if they start Sessions and Lee together. Honestly I would start Beasley at SF. He bring more rebounding and Athleticism. KP is a poor rebounder and that area needs to be covered up.

Eventually I see sessions being displaced by Ntlikina. Lee should be sixth man I think he will thrive in that role.

Need to start the yoots. Frank, THJr, McDermott, Willy, KP. Dotson, Baker, Kanter, Kuz, Beasley in the rotation.

Zebo13
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10/13/2017  1:08 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/13/2017  1:08 PM
The game Kanter started his D looked pretty solid. He was working hard and was mostly in the right spots. Once he got back in with a bunch of randoms he looked a bit more confused and out of place.
reub
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10/13/2017  4:31 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/15/2017  12:55 AM
Zebo13 wrote:The game Kanter started his D looked pretty solid. He was working hard and was mostly in the right spots. Once he got back in with a bunch of randoms he looked a bit more confused and out of place.

Kanter, KP and THJr are definite starters.
Who should play with them?
If Frank is hurt then I'd say Sessions starts.
Out of the SFs, I'll take Beasley's athleticism over McBuckets one dimensional game. Wait, probably Lee will start at SF.

HofstraBBall
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10/13/2017  5:07 PM
NYKBocker wrote:
Vmart wrote:Not much of a youth movement if they start Sessions and Lee together. Honestly I would start Beasley at SF. He bring more rebounding and Athleticism. KP is a poor rebounder and that area needs to be covered up.

Eventually I see sessions being displaced by Ntlikina. Lee should be sixth man I think he will thrive in that role.

Need to start the yoots. Frank, THJr, McDermott, Willy, KP. Dotson, Baker, Kanter, Kuz, Beasley in the rotation.

Agree. Trade KO, Lee, Noah, Beasley, LT and every other old guy over 26!!

But seriously, Would prefer to watch the young guys learn/fail by experience instead of watching mediocre veterans.

Melo Haters = Lin lovers who are mad Houston paid so much for his 15 Minutes,
CrushAlot
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10/14/2017  11:12 PM
I think we know what we're doing..... Phil Jackson
nyknickzingis
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10/15/2017  6:02 AM
I think for sure Kanter, Porzingis, Hardaway start. At PG and SF it will be some shuffling based on who is playing well at that moment. I don't think anyone has truly stood out as a starter at 3 and 1.
EnySpree
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10/15/2017  6:09 AM    LAST EDITED: 10/15/2017  6:10 AM
nyknickzingis wrote:I think for sure Kanter, Porzingis, Hardaway start. At PG and SF it will be some shuffling based on who is playing well at that moment. I don't think anyone has truly stood out as a starter at 3 and 1.

Sessions was the better pg. He was the most consistent and under control. Though I do like what Baker did but the guy can't score. I wish he would have worked on that more.

You know why I'm here....
TripleThreat
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10/15/2017  5:56 PM
EwingsGlass wrote:I haven't caught any pre season games yet. Even with lost weight, Kanter still lagging heavily on D? I would think the weight loss would help with the lateral quickness. Doesn't change footwork though.


PEDS cycling.

Two locked in tests per year, end of the season, beginning of the preseason cycle.

Four "random" tests during the year.

High profile players that the NBA wants to specifically market around, get their four "random" tests early. This is when the regular season doesn't count as much, when teams are still figuring out their rotations, before the trade deadline and when eating some losses don't really matter. If you are in the West, no one is going to knock off the Warriors. You just want to do well enough to not have to face them in the opening round ( Consider the financial implications of just advancing one more round versus not, i.e. the number of home games you get, this is CRITICAL in terms of future nationally broadcast games, getting reupped by your luxury suite fans, your courtside fans, your local advertising, etc. )

The bonus fo the NBA itself is Player X catches on fire in the 2nd half for a strong playoff push. This is when "coincidentally" the players the league does not want advancing or changing the "narrative" get their "random" tests.

It's not that hard. Most agents and big representation have free lance "handlers" on their payrolls. "Consultants"

You mean like Ray Donovan? Not quite. But not too far off.

It's not hard to find out when the tests are going to happen. It's not hard for players to find out. It's not hard for the league to have plausible deniability on the entire back chatter situation about it. If I didn't see it, I don't know. If I didn't hear it, I don't know. I just don't know. Right? No one knows?

In Hollywood, there's a saying - What Just Happened?

Everyone knows, no one knows, no one is to blame, until they find someone to blame. I think I just described every screwed up marriage in America there.

Massive weight loss means nothing most of the time, in the grand scheme of a player making a huge leap or not in development. Traditionally, player make big gains, if any, inbetween Years 1 and 2, and 2 and 3. After that, what you see is about what you are going to get. It's at these points, as well, that refs start to acclimate to these players, and based on the players production and marketability, then what kind of "ref calls" those players will get. If there is ONE LEGIT criticism of Jeremy Lin by anyone in the league, it's that he had to, at some point, during Linsanity, get clean calls. Most guys at his experience level have a ton of calls go against him, until he pays his dues. Unfortunately you can't have a kid who is the talk of the entire world for a month, on the cover of Time, get injured because Derek Fisher tomahawked him in a game, caught on film, because that's just how near rookie players have to eat hard contact.

Jimmer Fredette, in his first year, got a lot of clean calls that many rookies would not get. He was insanely popular and marketable and there's a push/pull to him getting hit too hard. You have to consider the landscape. Very young guys, many of them Alpha, always got what they wanted, always treated better than everyone else, most spent time as the primary guy on their teams, now having to take a backseat to some other player they hate ( because they are petty and jealous, because most of these guys are from broken homes, poorly educated, poorly socialized, coddled, ignorant, childish and looking for a big shoe deal, or to be the next rap mogul/cologne mogul/stupid hat mogul/reality star/part time actor/part time singer/part time film festival icon taking wine baths)

Development is not just about getting actually better in terms of skill set. It's also about your relationship with the refs, your "pecking order" in terms of how the league wants to market you and the politics of why a certain player might get a chance versus not ( draft stock, contract status, agent relationship, nepotism, etc)

Kanter is 99 percent not going to get better than what you've seen before. His improvement window, the mass of it, is generally over. Refs are used to him, his "rep" is established. He's not marketable, he won't sell shoes, he's not dunking over a car, he won't get clean calls. There's even the dreaded "Euro Bias" in play.

Kanter is a pit of death on defense. Teams will feast on him via the pick and roll and no measure of his scoring will make up for being a sieve on the other end.

Can he get better? In theory.

Can a 350 pound guy his whole life drop to 150 the rest of his life? In theory.

Can a chain smoker for 20 years go cold turkey for life and never touch a cig again? In theory.

Will nixluva ever actually discover some basic critical thinking skills when considering what the Knicks are doing instead of relying on the time honored pimpled face 12 year old sulking standard "Cause I Said So!" response? In theory

But how likely is it? Not likely.

Kanter was available for a reason. He's a "bad contract" for a reason. I get why fans want to hope he can be more, but it's just not likely.

The above was for all of the rest of you. Point by point analysis.

The below is for nixluva, since it will work better for him....

CAUSE I SAID SO!

Since you came on this board you have been way off in regards to trade value. - Briggs 7/28/2015
TPercy
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10/15/2017  6:10 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/15/2017  6:10 PM
Um @TT, what does half of that have to do with whether or not Kanter's weight loss enabling him to have more lateral quickness on defense? You seem to be using trends(some that have absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand IMO) to make judgement on a specific characteristic of a specific player.
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