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Around the NBA 2017-18
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Welpee
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11/7/2017  10:45 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
Welpee wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:Harden - 56 points, 13 assists, 7 of 8 from beyond the arc.
OKC must feel so stupid for letting him go. He used to score efficiently for them as well. They should have kept him. Can you imagine that team now with what Russ, Harden, KD...what it would have turned into?
Harden would've never been Harden now if he had stayed in OKC. Likely he would've left via free agency anyway to have space to become the player he is now.

Harden's camp was trying to work a deal. It was OKC who decided to go with Ibaka.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2031893-james-harden-admits-money-was-deciding-factor-in-leaving-okc-thunder

I know OKC didn't want to/couldn't pay both Harden and Ibaka. But you still have to wonder how long Harden would've been happy coming off the bench. After the trade was made I remember him seeming pretty pleased with getting a chance to realize his potential.
AUTOADVERT
BRIGGS
Posts: 49442
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11/8/2017  12:11 PM
BRIGGS wrote:Ive watched a lot of these pre season tapes and young guys


First off I think ultimately the C from AZ will be going #1.

I think Grayson Allen as a PG will jump into the top 17 and should become a Knick target(thinking we make playoffs)

Best top 7-8 prospects in the draft I have ever seen--multiple franchise players.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/247995/NBA-Scout-Top-4-Prospects-In-2018-Would-Have-Each-Gone-No-1-In-2017

TripleThreat
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11/8/2017  10:25 PM
Welpee wrote:I know OKC didn't want to/couldn't pay both Harden and Ibaka. But you still have to wonder how long Harden would've been happy coming off the bench. After the trade was made I remember him seeming pretty pleased with getting a chance to realize his potential.


The best example I've heard regarding the situation was from listening to an analyst talking about OKC and team building at one of the Sloan Sports Conferences. He said it was like having your kid go off to college. If you have them staggered several years, that's helpful ( i.e. one's been in college two years, then another starts) He mentioned the problem of Ibaka and Harden being drafted in the same draft and both being first round picks. It was exactly like having two kid already in college ( Durant and WB hitting the cap hard) then having two more kids enter as freshman at the same time.

Some things specific to that timeline

A) Durant and WB were resigned both using the same loophole exception based on their production. Teams were only supposed to be able to use it once, but some circumstances made it so WB could get it as well ( Mostly this was Stern wanting OKC to succeed. The NBA basically tried to strong arm Seattle and having OKC fail as a team from a winning perspective would seem to justify the rage directed at the NBA. From a "narrative" perspective, there was no way OKC was going to be a losing team post move. ) While OKC got this gravy, it did impact their cap quite a bit and choked out their cap flexibility overall

B) The value of rim protection was far different in that timeline. Harden was a good player, but they needed defense and they needed rim protection. Unfortunately the team doubled down on Kendrick Perkins and it was the wrong move. At some point, a team has to "lock in" cap wise, the Thunder did and it cost them

C) The team at that point, could not truly project where the cap was going to go. In hindsight, it seems insane to trade Harden instead of waiting one more season. The projections then made it seem like it would only make the problem more expensive.

D) While it's not so open to the press and general fan base, James Harden does not have a good reputation around the league. He has a good reputation at strip clubs in every major city in the US, but a lot of NBA players, established ones, hate him. Many coaches too. Many agents. Even some owners. When the Rockets had him and Dwight Howard ( another diva of epic proportions), it was tough on everyone in Houston because everyone knew both their massive egos were killing the team. Harden is not talented enough alone to carry a team to a ring just by himself. To the playoffs, yes, but not a ring. He's a franchise player, from a marketing standpoint, but he's not a leader and he only buys in because he gets the complete spotlight. Without it, he won't function. While guys like Perkins and Nick Collison were good for the lockerroom, guys like Harden and Reggie Jackson were poison when the doors were closed to the public.

In retrospect, IMHO, the right move was not signing Harden to an extension versus not, it would have been to trade Westbrook earlier, keep Harden one more year, then trade Harden. Both guys are a little too "hero ball" to fit on the same roster. And they functionally kill team unity unless they get the spotlight.

Everyone has to remember, these dudes are basically living together all the time. Compressed and under lots of pressure. I'm sure many here have worked or do work in something similar. Tight quarters, few people, same people, all the time. Personality glitches get magnified, people just start to hate each other. What no one wants to talk about is Durant left, in part, because it was clear it was no longer possible to manage an ego like Westbrooks. And if Harden stayed, him too. Watch the OKC Thunder actually play and notice how badly team ball suffers with WB on the floor. Houston has found a way to spotlight Harden and build around him, but they too have many of the same issues. You can't suffer a bad game from WB and/or Harden and hope to win.

Ever hear the saying - "No matter how hot a chick is, there is someone, somewhere, tired of her ****"

That's pretty much everyone who spends any length of time around James Harden. Well except strippers. They love him.

Since you came on this board you have been way off in regards to trade value. - Briggs 7/28/2015
GustavBahler
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11/9/2017  4:34 PM
Stephen A Smith brought up the B word (Bust) in reference to Lonzo Ball. His God awful shooting mechanics aside. What's really holding Ball back IMO is his lack of elevation when he's driving, shooting. Never mind the under the rim dunk.

Lonzo often gets barely gets off the ground. Makes it real easy to stuff him, bother him. Has no real hang time as well when he is at full elevation to shoot (not about dunking). Being able to hang in the air lets you absorb contact, then shoot. Or elevate over a defender.

Once Ball is in NBA shape, he's going to be dangerous IMO. Unless this impacts his confidence.

Knickoftime
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11/9/2017  4:38 PM
GustavBahler wrote:Stephen A Smith brought up the B word (Bust) in reference to Lonzo Ball. His God awful shooting mechanics aside. What's really holding Ball back IMO is his lack of elevation when he's driving, shooting. Never mind the under the rim dunk.

Lonzo often gets barely gets off the ground. Makes it real easy to stuff him, bother him. Has no real hang time as well when he is at full elevation to shoot (not about dunking). Being able to hang in the air lets you absorb contact, then shoot. Or elevate over a defender.

Once Ball is in NBA shape, he's going to be dangerous IMO. Unless this impacts his confidence.

If court vision and passing is his most innate, calling card skill...

http://insider.espn.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/rookies/sort/assistRatio

TripleThreat
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11/9/2017  8:00 PM
GustavBahler wrote:Stephen A Smith brought up the B word (Bust) in reference to Lonzo Ball.


In some ways, you have to feel for the guy. His dad's antics paints a target on his back. LBJ won't play with a high profile rookie. He just won't, his ego can't handle the Old Man/Young Jedi storyline. Now the media, based on Nike's push, have to hatchet Ball the entire season, to justify a trade on the offseason.

Sort of hope he ends up a Raptor or a Grizzlie or a Hawk. Go to a "Siberia" situation, so he can just focus on working on his game and being the best player possible without all the hoopla and fanfare.

Since you came on this board you have been way off in regards to trade value. - Briggs 7/28/2015
KnickDanger
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11/9/2017  11:54 PM
GustavBahler wrote:Stephen A Smith brought up the B word (Bust) in reference to Lonzo Ball. His God awful shooting mechanics aside. What's really holding Ball back IMO is his lack of elevation when he's driving, shooting. Never mind the under the rim dunk.

Lonzo often gets barely gets off the ground. Makes it real easy to stuff him, bother him. Has no real hang time as well when he is at full elevation to shoot (not about dunking). Being able to hang in the air lets you absorb contact, then shoot. Or elevate over a defender.

Once Ball is in NBA shape, he's going to be dangerous IMO. Unless this impacts his confidence.


Stephen A has become largely a clown.
TPercy
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11/10/2017  12:14 AM
OKC looks so bad. The more I watch their games, the angrier I become at the fact that we got blown out by these sad ****s. There is no cohesive offense to OKC whatsoever.

Denver on the other hand plays really good D and are fun to watch when energized.

The Future is Bright!
TPercy
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11/10/2017  12:22 AM
Why are Murray's numbers so bad? He impresses me when I see him play
The Future is Bright!
CrushAlot
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USA
11/10/2017  12:44 AM
I thought 2Pat would be better for OKC. Haven't watched OKC other than against the Knicks but 2Pat hasn't looked good. George having an off night. Felton has looked good.
I think we know what we're doing..... Phil Jackson
CrushAlot
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USA
11/10/2017  12:45 AM
Mudiay is much better.
I think we know what we're doing..... Phil Jackson
CrushAlot
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USA
11/10/2017  1:01 AM
Mudiay had an amazing game. Milsap fits perfectly with Jokic.
I think we know what we're doing..... Phil Jackson
GustavBahler
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Member: #3186

11/10/2017  4:06 AM
TripleThreat wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Stephen A Smith brought up the B word (Bust) in reference to Lonzo Ball.


In some ways, you have to feel for the guy. His dad's antics paints a target on his back. LBJ won't play with a high profile rookie. He just won't, his ego can't handle the Old Man/Young Jedi storyline. Now the media, based on Nike's push, have to hatchet Ball the entire season, to justify a trade on the offseason.

Sort of hope he ends up a Raptor or a Grizzlie or a Hawk. Go to a "Siberia" situation, so he can just focus on working on his game and being the best player possible without all the hoopla and fanfare.

I agree, thats just what his Dad did. Players told Ball as much. Also agree about LeBron playing with a high profile rookie. Always felt it was why Wiggins was traded. Hard to argue with the results though. I dont believe Ball is that far off. I believe better conditioning will take care of a lot of his problems. Wont help his shot mechanics though.

GustavBahler
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11/10/2017  4:07 AM
CrushAlot wrote:Mudiay had an amazing game. Milsap fits perfectly with Jokic.

I will have to watch some Nugget games.

BigDaddyG
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11/10/2017  9:38 AM
GustavBahler wrote:
TripleThreat wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Stephen A Smith brought up the B word (Bust) in reference to Lonzo Ball.


In some ways, you have to feel for the guy. His dad's antics paints a target on his back. LBJ won't play with a high profile rookie. He just won't, his ego can't handle the Old Man/Young Jedi storyline. Now the media, based on Nike's push, have to hatchet Ball the entire season, to justify a trade on the offseason.

Sort of hope he ends up a Raptor or a Grizzlie or a Hawk. Go to a "Siberia" situation, so he can just focus on working on his game and being the best player possible without all the hoopla and fanfare.

I agree, thats just what his Dad did. Players told Ball as much. Also agree about LeBron playing with a high profile rookie. Always felt it was why Wiggins was traded. Hard to argue with the results though. I dont believe Ball is that far off. I believe better conditioning will take care of a lot of his problems. Wont help his shot mechanics though.

That's why I never bought the kid comparisons. Kid was a much better athlete and was much stronger as a rookie. I think Lonzo will be good, but not a superstar. He'll need to develop a floater because his J will become useless in half court unless he's wide open. He'll have to work this off-season and take a break from the reality TV show.

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
CrushAlot
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USA
11/10/2017  1:41 PM
I think we know what we're doing..... Phil Jackson
TPercy
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Member: #5748

11/10/2017  3:50 PM
CrushAlot wrote:Mudiay had an amazing game. Milsap fits perfectly with Jokic.

I agree. He look very good in that game.

The Future is Bright!
CrushAlot
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USA
11/11/2017  12:22 PM
I think we know what we're doing..... Phil Jackson
Uptown
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11/11/2017  3:15 PM
CrushAlot wrote:

Hate him or love him, Harden is one of most talented offensive guards in the history of the game...dude is unstoppable.

Cartman718
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11/11/2017  9:20 PM
I think if Cleveland doesn’t beat Dallas tonight, they’ll definitely be looking to trade now until trading deadline. Kevin Love could be gone soon. Same for JR.
Nixluva is posting triangle screen grabs, even when nobody asks - Fishmike. LOL So are we going to reference that thread like the bible now? "The thread of Wroten Page 14 post 9" - EnySpree
Around the NBA 2017-18

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