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Melo traded to OKC (Kanter, Doug McDermott, CHI 2018 second-round draft pick)
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HofstraBBall
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9/24/2017  5:22 PM
awe1028 wrote:
Markji wrote:I give Perry an "A" for the way he handled this. He came into a very toxic situation and handled it like a pro. He didn't cave; he didn't publicly put down Melo; he didn't give into Melo and trade him to Houston for Ryan Anderson. That would have been a terrible trade for the Knicks.

He got the most value he could for Melo under the circumstances. Trading with Oklahoma, the only way to make salaries work was to get Kanter. While Kanter didn't address our immediate "need" for a PG or a SF, or a defensive player, he was the "best player available" and had a salary large enough to help provide a salary match for Melo.

Don't look at the negative. Look at the positive. Kanter is a beast offensively. He is also a beast under the boards, especially offensive rebounds. His per 36 numbers are off the chart offensively. McDermott is also very good offensively. He has an excellent shot and 3 pt shooters have become more valuable in today's game and should fit in nicely in Hornacek's offensive schemes. I'd rate the players we received a B.

If someone says we should build via the draft....Kanter was a #3 selection in the 2011 draft. McDermott was a #11 selection in the 2014 draft. Beasley was a #2 pick in the 2008 draft. Not all lottery picks, or even top lottery picks, become All-Stars. It is difficult to get ALL-Star plays thru the draft. A team has to get lucky as we did with Porzingis. But we just got 3 lottery picks/players who are very good offensively. Not great 2 way players but they will contribute and add to the Knicks team if Horny utilizes their strengths wisely.

I am very pleased that this trade was done and now we can move on.


This post is excellent. Everything you say about the deal is spot on. People who are disappointed with the haul were not paying attention. No one was giving the knicks equal return for Carmelo especially after Phil depressed Carmelo's trade value. As such the Knicks probably were getting offers of players with bad contracts.

As you so rightfully said Perry handled the situation like pro as he did not panic or cave. Instead he waited Carmelo out until he opened up his list of teams and got a palatable deal.

In Kanter the Knicks got a player with value who they can trade if need be. It is also possible though unlikely Kanter will be gone after the season as he has player option. Conversely Kanter he is a talented player off the bench or even a starter should they decide to keep him.

Mcdermott is also a player who could be a throw in in a deal and his contract is fairly cap friendl, Again just like you said A+ handling of the situation by Perry.

Finally, the other important point no one is talking about: with this trade the Knicks really have a chance to be one of the worse teams in 2018 giving them a legitimate shot at Michael Porter or Luca Doncic in the draft. For that Perry deserves an A+++.

Have to agree with this. Except for the excitement of losing and being a lottery team. Never liked watching a year of losing to play lotto.

My biggest hope is that management is good enough not to F up the KP era. Not very confident as they have F up every other era, including the Melo era.

Hope I am wrong and these young guys meet the expectations.

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StarksEwing1
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9/24/2017  5:32 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
awe1028 wrote:
Markji wrote:I give Perry an "A" for the way he handled this. He came into a very toxic situation and handled it like a pro. He didn't cave; he didn't publicly put down Melo; he didn't give into Melo and trade him to Houston for Ryan Anderson. That would have been a terrible trade for the Knicks.

He got the most value he could for Melo under the circumstances. Trading with Oklahoma, the only way to make salaries work was to get Kanter. While Kanter didn't address our immediate "need" for a PG or a SF, or a defensive player, he was the "best player available" and had a salary large enough to help provide a salary match for Melo.

Don't look at the negative. Look at the positive. Kanter is a beast offensively. He is also a beast under the boards, especially offensive rebounds. His per 36 numbers are off the chart offensively. McDermott is also very good offensively. He has an excellent shot and 3 pt shooters have become more valuable in today's game and should fit in nicely in Hornacek's offensive schemes. I'd rate the players we received a B.

If someone says we should build via the draft....Kanter was a #3 selection in the 2011 draft. McDermott was a #11 selection in the 2014 draft. Beasley was a #2 pick in the 2008 draft. Not all lottery picks, or even top lottery picks, become All-Stars. It is difficult to get ALL-Star plays thru the draft. A team has to get lucky as we did with Porzingis. But we just got 3 lottery picks/players who are very good offensively. Not great 2 way players but they will contribute and add to the Knicks team if Horny utilizes their strengths wisely.

I am very pleased that this trade was done and now we can move on.


This post is excellent. Everything you say about the deal is spot on. People who are disappointed with the haul were not paying attention. No one was giving the knicks equal return for Carmelo especially after Phil depressed Carmelo's trade value. As such the Knicks probably were getting offers of players with bad contracts.

As you so rightfully said Perry handled the situation like pro as he did not panic or cave. Instead he waited Carmelo out until he opened up his list of teams and got a palatable deal.

In Kanter the Knicks got a player with value who they can trade if need be. It is also possible though unlikely Kanter will be gone after the season as he has player option. Conversely Kanter he is a talented player off the bench or even a starter should they decide to keep him.

Mcdermott is also a player who could be a throw in in a deal and his contract is fairly cap friendl, Again just like you said A+ handling of the situation by Perry.

Finally, the other important point no one is talking about: with this trade the Knicks really have a chance to be one of the worse teams in 2018 giving them a legitimate shot at Michael Porter or Luca Doncic in the draft. For that Perry deserves an A+++.

Have to agree with this. Except for the excitement of losing and being a lottery team. Never liked watching a year of losing to play lotto.

My biggest hope is that management is good enough not to F up the KP era. Not very confident as they have F up every other era, including the Melo era.

Hope I am wrong and these young guys meet the expectations.

i think the knicks are finally on the right track now after years of screwups. The problem with the melo era was that melo really fits better as the 2nd or third guy.
knicks1248
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9/24/2017  5:46 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
awe1028 wrote:
Markji wrote:I give Perry an "A" for the way he handled this. He came into a very toxic situation and handled it like a pro. He didn't cave; he didn't publicly put down Melo; he didn't give into Melo and trade him to Houston for Ryan Anderson. That would have been a terrible trade for the Knicks.

He got the most value he could for Melo under the circumstances. Trading with Oklahoma, the only way to make salaries work was to get Kanter. While Kanter didn't address our immediate "need" for a PG or a SF, or a defensive player, he was the "best player available" and had a salary large enough to help provide a salary match for Melo.

Don't look at the negative. Look at the positive. Kanter is a beast offensively. He is also a beast under the boards, especially offensive rebounds. His per 36 numbers are off the chart offensively. McDermott is also very good offensively. He has an excellent shot and 3 pt shooters have become more valuable in today's game and should fit in nicely in Hornacek's offensive schemes. I'd rate the players we received a B.

If someone says we should build via the draft....Kanter was a #3 selection in the 2011 draft. McDermott was a #11 selection in the 2014 draft. Beasley was a #2 pick in the 2008 draft. Not all lottery picks, or even top lottery picks, become All-Stars. It is difficult to get ALL-Star plays thru the draft. A team has to get lucky as we did with Porzingis. But we just got 3 lottery picks/players who are very good offensively. Not great 2 way players but they will contribute and add to the Knicks team if Horny utilizes their strengths wisely.

I am very pleased that this trade was done and now we can move on.


This post is excellent. Everything you say about the deal is spot on. People who are disappointed with the haul were not paying attention. No one was giving the knicks equal return for Carmelo especially after Phil depressed Carmelo's trade value. As such the Knicks probably were getting offers of players with bad contracts.

As you so rightfully said Perry handled the situation like pro as he did not panic or cave. Instead he waited Carmelo out until he opened up his list of teams and got a palatable deal.

In Kanter the Knicks got a player with value who they can trade if need be. It is also possible though unlikely Kanter will be gone after the season as he has player option. Conversely Kanter he is a talented player off the bench or even a starter should they decide to keep him.

Mcdermott is also a player who could be a throw in in a deal and his contract is fairly cap friendl, Again just like you said A+ handling of the situation by Perry.

Finally, the other important point no one is talking about: with this trade the Knicks really have a chance to be one of the worse teams in 2018 giving them a legitimate shot at Michael Porter or Luca Doncic in the draft. For that Perry deserves an A+++.

Have to agree with this. Except for the excitement of losing and being a lottery team. Never liked watching a year of losing to play lotto.

My biggest hope is that management is good enough not to F up the KP era. Not very confident as they have F up every other era, including the Melo era.

Hope I am wrong and these young guys meet the expectations.

IDK, mills talked about defense as a priority, and acquired some the worst defenders in the league, not to mention a coaching staff that made RAMBIS the primary defensive coach.

ES
PresIke
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9/24/2017  6:33 PM    LAST EDITED: 9/24/2017  6:33 PM
Well, now the tank end around is now really on...good thing we aren't usually the best at it with those potential new rule changes to the draft.
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
PresIke
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9/24/2017  6:37 PM    LAST EDITED: 9/24/2017  6:40 PM
reub wrote:Kanter has lost 40 freakin pounds this offseason and looks ripped. He's already put up incredible offensive and rebounding stats for three years and this loss of weight and conditioning should mean a lot for his defense.

Classic off-season propaganda. I remember when I used to buy into it as well...

Like when Marcus Camby gained 20 lbs of muscle.

I hope I am wrong, but this was a lateral move in terms of player quality at best even with all these advanced stats of which I am a supporter of. We shall see here but we are very short on talent anyway, so let's be real. Maybe there is some hope sprinkled in this trade with the stats, etc. and with assumed better teamwork as a basis after the opposite for too long. Otherwise this was really about move on and see what transpires post-Melo/PJax, etc.

Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
Allanfan20
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9/24/2017  7:59 PM
PresIke wrote:Well, now the tank end around is now really on...good thing we aren't usually the best at it with those potential new rule changes to the draft.

What rule changes?

“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
nixluva
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9/24/2017  8:23 PM
PresIke wrote:
reub wrote:Kanter has lost 40 freakin pounds this offseason and looks ripped. He's already put up incredible offensive and rebounding stats for three years and this loss of weight and conditioning should mean a lot for his defense.

Classic off-season propaganda. I remember when I used to buy into it as well...

Like when Marcus Camby gained 20 lbs of muscle.

I hope I am wrong, but this was a lateral move in terms of player quality at best even with all these advanced stats of which I am a supporter of. We shall see here but we are very short on talent anyway, so let's be real. Maybe there is some hope sprinkled in this trade with the stats, etc. and with assumed better teamwork as a basis after the opposite for too long. Otherwise this was really about move on and see what transpires post-Melo/PJax, etc.

Kanter did literally change his body. It's clearly visible. That is a good thing but of course the thing he needs most is to improve his D. If Kanter does that he's more than a lateral move.

We know that most of the players we have left on the roster are more Team Oriented and many are hungry and ready to give Max Effort. Those are all good factors going into this season. It's the most interesting Knicks season in years. So many story lines.

Knickoftime
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9/24/2017  9:36 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
awe1028 wrote:
Markji wrote:I give Perry an "A" for the way he handled this. He came into a very toxic situation and handled it like a pro. He didn't cave; he didn't publicly put down Melo; he didn't give into Melo and trade him to Houston for Ryan Anderson. That would have been a terrible trade for the Knicks.

He got the most value he could for Melo under the circumstances. Trading with Oklahoma, the only way to make salaries work was to get Kanter. While Kanter didn't address our immediate "need" for a PG or a SF, or a defensive player, he was the "best player available" and had a salary large enough to help provide a salary match for Melo.

Don't look at the negative. Look at the positive. Kanter is a beast offensively. He is also a beast under the boards, especially offensive rebounds. His per 36 numbers are off the chart offensively. McDermott is also very good offensively. He has an excellent shot and 3 pt shooters have become more valuable in today's game and should fit in nicely in Hornacek's offensive schemes. I'd rate the players we received a B.

If someone says we should build via the draft....Kanter was a #3 selection in the 2011 draft. McDermott was a #11 selection in the 2014 draft. Beasley was a #2 pick in the 2008 draft. Not all lottery picks, or even top lottery picks, become All-Stars. It is difficult to get ALL-Star plays thru the draft. A team has to get lucky as we did with Porzingis. But we just got 3 lottery picks/players who are very good offensively. Not great 2 way players but they will contribute and add to the Knicks team if Horny utilizes their strengths wisely.

I am very pleased that this trade was done and now we can move on.


This post is excellent. Everything you say about the deal is spot on. People who are disappointed with the haul were not paying attention. No one was giving the knicks equal return for Carmelo especially after Phil depressed Carmelo's trade value. As such the Knicks probably were getting offers of players with bad contracts.

As you so rightfully said Perry handled the situation like pro as he did not panic or cave. Instead he waited Carmelo out until he opened up his list of teams and got a palatable deal.

In Kanter the Knicks got a player with value who they can trade if need be. It is also possible though unlikely Kanter will be gone after the season as he has player option. Conversely Kanter he is a talented player off the bench or even a starter should they decide to keep him.

Mcdermott is also a player who could be a throw in in a deal and his contract is fairly cap friendl, Again just like you said A+ handling of the situation by Perry.

Finally, the other important point no one is talking about: with this trade the Knicks really have a chance to be one of the worse teams in 2018 giving them a legitimate shot at Michael Porter or Luca Doncic in the draft. For that Perry deserves an A+++.

Have to agree with this. Except for the excitement of losing and being a lottery team. Never liked watching a year of losing to play lotto.

My biggest hope is that management is good enough not to F up the KP era. Not very confident as they have F up every other era, including the Melo era.

Hope I am wrong and these young guys meet the expectations.

IDK, mills talked about defense as a priority, and acquired some the worst defenders in the league

Going to be a while or never before people grasp the options open in a melo return.

CrushAlot
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9/24/2017  9:36 PM
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
reub
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9/25/2017  12:12 AM
PresIke wrote:
reub wrote:Kanter has lost 40 freakin pounds this offseason and looks ripped. He's already put up incredible offensive and rebounding stats for three years and this loss of weight and conditioning should mean a lot for his defense.

Classic off-season propaganda. I remember when I used to buy into it as well...

Like when Marcus Camby gained 20 lbs of muscle.

I hope I am wrong, but this was a lateral move in terms of player quality at best even with all these advanced stats of which I am a supporter of. We shall see here but we are very short on talent anyway, so let's be real. Maybe there is some hope sprinkled in this trade with the stats, etc. and with assumed better teamwork as a basis after the opposite for too long. Otherwise this was really about move on and see what transpires post-Melo/PJax, etc.


There's a
picture of Kanter standing on a scale and the digital readout says 235. Is that propaganda too?
Bonn1997
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9/25/2017  6:52 AM
PresIke wrote:
reub wrote:Kanter has lost 40 freakin pounds this offseason and looks ripped. He's already put up incredible offensive and rebounding stats for three years and this loss of weight and conditioning should mean a lot for his defense.

Classic off-season propaganda. I remember when I used to buy into it as well...

Like when Marcus Camby gained 20 lbs of muscle.

I hope I am wrong, but this was a lateral move in terms of player quality at best even with all these advanced stats of which I am a supporter of. We shall see here but we are very short on talent anyway, so let's be real. Maybe there is some hope sprinkled in this trade with the stats, etc. and with assumed better teamwork as a basis after the opposite for too long. Otherwise this was really about move on and see what transpires post-Melo/PJax, etc.


It really depends on which advanced stats you look at too. Some of the advanced stats suggest Kanter is a star but others (VORP, BPM) suggest he barely belongs in the league
Bonn1997
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9/25/2017  7:58 AM
CrushAlot wrote:

It will be interesting to see what happens in the West. I think Melo will play much better. But I still think GSW, SAS, and HOU (probably) are better than OKC. If OKC is just a 4th seed, 2nd round team, this won't really do much for Melo's legacy. But he has at least put himself in a situation where there's the potential for the team to do really well and help build his legacy.

Bonn1997
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9/25/2017  7:58 AM
reub wrote:
PresIke wrote:
reub wrote:Kanter has lost 40 freakin pounds this offseason and looks ripped. He's already put up incredible offensive and rebounding stats for three years and this loss of weight and conditioning should mean a lot for his defense.

Classic off-season propaganda. I remember when I used to buy into it as well...

Like when Marcus Camby gained 20 lbs of muscle.

I hope I am wrong, but this was a lateral move in terms of player quality at best even with all these advanced stats of which I am a supporter of. We shall see here but we are very short on talent anyway, so let's be real. Maybe there is some hope sprinkled in this trade with the stats, etc. and with assumed better teamwork as a basis after the opposite for too long. Otherwise this was really about move on and see what transpires post-Melo/PJax, etc.


There's a
picture of Kanter standing on a scale and the digital readout says 235. Is that propaganda too?

Was he 275 before?
Allanfan20
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9/25/2017  8:26 AM    LAST EDITED: 9/25/2017  8:28 AM
reub wrote:
PresIke wrote:
reub wrote:Kanter has lost 40 freakin pounds this offseason and looks ripped. He's already put up incredible offensive and rebounding stats for three years and this loss of weight and conditioning should mean a lot for his defense.

Classic off-season propaganda. I remember when I used to buy into it as well...

Like when Marcus Camby gained 20 lbs of muscle.

I hope I am wrong, but this was a lateral move in terms of player quality at best even with all these advanced stats of which I am a supporter of. We shall see here but we are very short on talent anyway, so let's be real. Maybe there is some hope sprinkled in this trade with the stats, etc. and with assumed better teamwork as a basis after the opposite for too long. Otherwise this was really about move on and see what transpires post-Melo/PJax, etc.


There's a
picture of Kanter standing on a scale and the digital readout says 235. Is that propaganda too?

I think it is. Any example of a player bragging about his/her offseason accomlishments to generate excitement is propaganda. At the end of the day, judgement is placed on you based on your play on the court/field/ice.

With that said, that’s not me saying I’m not happy to see someone like Kanter taking his work very serious by losing all of that weight. Good for him. Hopefully it translates. It’s not a promise. Just remember, defense is more than just being in good or even supreme physical condition.

“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
anrst
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9/25/2017  9:35 AM
i love this deal !!!!!!!!!

we did great. two young players with legit upside.

without Perry we'd be stuck with Ryan Anderson's contract or we'd have just bought out Melo.

SupremeCommander
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9/25/2017  9:51 AM
I like this deal the more and more the more I think about it... we essentially got back the equivalent of Gallo and Chandler and a really bad first round pick for Melo. So I feel like we got back what we paid, maybe not quite as much because we got him during his prime years, but pretty damned close
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martin
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9/25/2017  9:51 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
reub wrote:
PresIke wrote:
reub wrote:Kanter has lost 40 freakin pounds this offseason and looks ripped. He's already put up incredible offensive and rebounding stats for three years and this loss of weight and conditioning should mean a lot for his defense.

Classic off-season propaganda. I remember when I used to buy into it as well...

Like when Marcus Camby gained 20 lbs of muscle.

I hope I am wrong, but this was a lateral move in terms of player quality at best even with all these advanced stats of which I am a supporter of. We shall see here but we are very short on talent anyway, so let's be real. Maybe there is some hope sprinkled in this trade with the stats, etc. and with assumed better teamwork as a basis after the opposite for too long. Otherwise this was really about move on and see what transpires post-Melo/PJax, etc.


There's a
picture of Kanter standing on a scale and the digital readout says 235. Is that propaganda too?

Was he 275 before?

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NYKBocker
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9/25/2017  10:46 AM
CrushAlot wrote:

This looked like a scene from Walking Dead..

BigDaddyG
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9/25/2017  11:02 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
PresIke wrote:
reub wrote:Kanter has lost 40 freakin pounds this offseason and looks ripped. He's already put up incredible offensive and rebounding stats for three years and this loss of weight and conditioning should mean a lot for his defense.

Classic off-season propaganda. I remember when I used to buy into it as well...

Like when Marcus Camby gained 20 lbs of muscle.

I hope I am wrong, but this was a lateral move in terms of player quality at best even with all these advanced stats of which I am a supporter of. We shall see here but we are very short on talent anyway, so let's be real. Maybe there is some hope sprinkled in this trade with the stats, etc. and with assumed better teamwork as a basis after the opposite for too long. Otherwise this was really about move on and see what transpires post-Melo/PJax, etc.


It really depends on which advanced stats you look at too. Some of the advanced stats suggest Kanter is a star but others (VORP, BPM) suggest he barely belongs in the league

That tells you something if you see that much fluctuation. He's a deeply flawed player who excels at in some categories and sucks at others. You also look at the way Utah and OKC used him in the past and can draw the same conclusion. It's gotta tell you something if Utah, a team that has trouble attracting talent, didn't think he warranted an extension. He's an NBA player, but stardom probably isn't in the cards.

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
anrst
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9/25/2017  11:09 AM
Kanter is 25. Big men generally take longer to hit their potential. People at large are overlooking the upside here big time.

Plus McD is 25 and can be an elite 3 point shooter ... where are all the media people who go on and on about how 3 point shooting is the most valuable skill... all the people that slammed us for not drafting Monk.

Melo traded to OKC (Kanter, Doug McDermott, CHI 2018 second-round draft pick)

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