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OT: Standing for the National Anthem
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Bonn1997
Posts: 58190
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Joined: 2/2/2004
Member: #581
USA
9/19/2017  8:19 AM
arkrud wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:Anyone want to answer the question?

Colin Kaspernick is protesting that police killed 250 African Americans out of the 1100 total citizens killed in 2015. Can someone come up with a figure oh how many African Americans were saved by police?

You mean how many performed their job? I would hope every single time such an opportunity presented itself.

You want to give credit to police officers for performing their job description and not intentionally letting a black person die?

This is why you're a ridiculous figure.


The 258 deaths don't matter since police saved other black people's lives! Imagine in medicine if a doctor could get away with fatal malpractice just because he saved someone with a heart attack earlier in the day!

That's why doctor has malpractice insurance.
Otherwise he will stop working and all patients will die or leave naturally without doctors help.
So police should stop patrolling this troubled neighborhoods and let people die or leave based on gang or tribe affiliation.
In other worlds back to jungle.


What does insurance have to do with this?
AUTOADVERT
meloshouldgo
Posts: 23548
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Joined: 5/3/2014
Member: #5801

9/19/2017  9:19 AM
arkrud wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
arkrud wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
arkrud wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Uptown wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:The first question one may ask when disregarding the 'theme" of standing is "what have I personally done for my country". What did this country afford my family and I? Have I ever served the countries military? Have I put myself in harms way to protect others freedoms? Have I talked to members of the military who have done more than I and asked them what do they feel about the "National anthem". Do they feel it would be disrespectful to them if someone chose not to stand for it. The National Anthem is not a self-serving platform--go look at the origins of OUR military. Feel free to ask REAL servicemen how they feel about the SIMPLE appreciation and then come back here. It's really easy to disrespect the people who keep the nation safe everyday and who have for 250 years. Its not a platform for protest--its a pledge of respect. How does disrespecting hundreds of millions of servicemen create any good? I'm going to be selfish and use this platform of respect for people who have done nothing but safeguarded my well being?

Dude, you are clueless!!!! Are you reading the responses in this thread! The protest has nothing to do with the military! But since you are so gung-ho about your national anthem, do you care about the actual author of the national anthem? Do you care that the original national anthem had the following verse:

No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave,
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

The national anthem that you speak of talks about killing slaves....In this day and age, why do we still sing this song?!


Yes, and I object to calling only people who serve in the military "servicemen." If you are a doctor, a teacher, a sanitation worker, or just a kind person, you are serving the country.

Exactly! Especially teachers who are routinely scrutinized and poorly compensated despite being so crucial to furthering a strong and healthy democracy.

My brother teaches math and makes over 80 k a year with complete summers off ana a full workload of 190 days. How does that compare with people who don't even make 1/4 of that and put their lives on the line. Admirable vocation-- absolutely-- does it compare to servicemen-- you have to be kidding.

If you want to sit during the National Anthem-- go ahead but believe me 80-90% of the people will think you are disrespectful to our nation. You would not be here without the military -- you would not have exsisted


If anyone thinks any type of platform will be hear while disrespecting those you are trying to communicate with-- what kind of common sense does that make?

Who are these people defending us from? How many American lives were put on the line defending our country since the WWII - what the fukk are you talking about? We wouldn't exist if not for this imaginary defense against imaginary perpetrators because you said so?

Without education and science our military would be on par with Myanmar. Take away but the technology and no country on earth would give a **** about our military. We couldn't even handle Vietnamese guerillas. The only deterrent is the TECHNOLOGY in the hands of the military. That and not imaginary sacrifices by the military defending our country keeps us safe.

You totally clueless man.
I was on the other site and if no American army Russians will left no stone standing in US.
And Wehrmacht will gladly do the same.
And if no police, firefighter, and first responders you ass will be up for grub any day by anyone who so desire.
Leaving in comfort, security, and prosperity made so many Americans delusional while thinking they are very intellectually sound.
They just sound silly and so no one really taking them seriously. And this is a good thing.

Are you able to read? I didn't say anything about police or firefighters. I said no one gives a rats ass about our military personnel. Our military power is absolute because of our technology superiority and NOT because of the personnel.

Age or Robots it yet to begin.
Soldiers are fighting the war. The real war not punishing Kim, Serbians, or bunch of Muslim rebels.
The war when existence of the way of life of the whole nations is at stake.
The military we have is there for this war never be for us.
And so far they stand to the promise.
But if we will not stand as one behind this soldiers and behind this anthem we will get our-self this real war.
War in which color of you skin will not matter.
Symbols are sometimes bigger that man or the group of man whoever they are.
No one should take it light as it has much bigger consequences that people blinded by security and prosperity given to them think.


I have no idea what that means so I am giving it a pass

This exactly my point.
America is great country which makes majority of the Americans so safe, comfortable, and prosperous that some of them start thinking that this is how the world is made to be.
No. This is how the America was shaped to be by its people.
They were brutal, unethical, and inhuman at times but they build this country.
And our responsibility is to carry on with what they build if we want continue to be safe, comfortable, and prosperous.
Even of we will need to be brutal, unethical, and inhuman at times our-self.

I still have no idea what you are talking about but sounds like you are recommending being brutal, unethical and inhuman (your words not mine) for the "greater good" which often only benefit just a few people.

What I had responded to was the idea (pervasive in right wing media) that every person in the military is risking their lives on a daily basis to defend the country - which is horse$hit in my opinion.

The only things that trickle down are wages and horse shit
newyorknewyork
Posts: 26906
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #541
9/19/2017  11:25 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
arkrud wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:Anyone want to answer the question?

Colin Kaspernick is protesting that police killed 250 African Americans out of the 1100 total citizens killed in 2015. Can someone come up with a figure oh how many African Americans were saved by police?

You mean how many performed their job? I would hope every single time such an opportunity presented itself.

You want to give credit to police officers for performing their job description and not intentionally letting a black person die?

This is why you're a ridiculous figure.


The 258 deaths don't matter since police saved other black people's lives! Imagine in medicine if a doctor could get away with fatal malpractice just because he saved someone with a heart attack earlier in the day!

That's why doctor has malpractice insurance.
Otherwise he will stop working and all patients will die or leave naturally without doctors help.
So police should stop patrolling this troubled neighborhoods and let people die or leave based on gang or tribe affiliation.
In other worlds back to jungle.


What does insurance have to do with this?

Seems like he is saying America should be based on Tyranny and not Democracy.

Bonn1997
Posts: 58190
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 2/2/2004
Member: #581
USA
9/19/2017  11:50 AM
newyorknewyork wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
arkrud wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:Anyone want to answer the question?

Colin Kaspernick is protesting that police killed 250 African Americans out of the 1100 total citizens killed in 2015. Can someone come up with a figure oh how many African Americans were saved by police?

You mean how many performed their job? I would hope every single time such an opportunity presented itself.

You want to give credit to police officers for performing their job description and not intentionally letting a black person die?

This is why you're a ridiculous figure.


The 258 deaths don't matter since police saved other black people's lives! Imagine in medicine if a doctor could get away with fatal malpractice just because he saved someone with a heart attack earlier in the day!

That's why doctor has malpractice insurance.
Otherwise he will stop working and all patients will die or leave naturally without doctors help.
So police should stop patrolling this troubled neighborhoods and let people die or leave based on gang or tribe affiliation.
In other worlds back to jungle.


What does insurance have to do with this?

Seems like he is saying America should be based on Tyranny and not Democracy.


because police don't have malpractice insurance???
Welpee
Posts: 21447
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/22/2016
Member: #6239

9/19/2017  12:02 PM    LAST EDITED: 9/19/2017  12:03 PM
meloshouldgo wrote:
arkrud wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
arkrud wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
arkrud wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Uptown wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:The first question one may ask when disregarding the 'theme" of standing is "what have I personally done for my country". What did this country afford my family and I? Have I ever served the countries military? Have I put myself in harms way to protect others freedoms? Have I talked to members of the military who have done more than I and asked them what do they feel about the "National anthem". Do they feel it would be disrespectful to them if someone chose not to stand for it. The National Anthem is not a self-serving platform--go look at the origins of OUR military. Feel free to ask REAL servicemen how they feel about the SIMPLE appreciation and then come back here. It's really easy to disrespect the people who keep the nation safe everyday and who have for 250 years. Its not a platform for protest--its a pledge of respect. How does disrespecting hundreds of millions of servicemen create any good? I'm going to be selfish and use this platform of respect for people who have done nothing but safeguarded my well being?

Dude, you are clueless!!!! Are you reading the responses in this thread! The protest has nothing to do with the military! But since you are so gung-ho about your national anthem, do you care about the actual author of the national anthem? Do you care that the original national anthem had the following verse:

No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave,
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

The national anthem that you speak of talks about killing slaves....In this day and age, why do we still sing this song?!


Yes, and I object to calling only people who serve in the military "servicemen." If you are a doctor, a teacher, a sanitation worker, or just a kind person, you are serving the country.

Exactly! Especially teachers who are routinely scrutinized and poorly compensated despite being so crucial to furthering a strong and healthy democracy.

My brother teaches math and makes over 80 k a year with complete summers off ana a full workload of 190 days. How does that compare with people who don't even make 1/4 of that and put their lives on the line. Admirable vocation-- absolutely-- does it compare to servicemen-- you have to be kidding.

If you want to sit during the National Anthem-- go ahead but believe me 80-90% of the people will think you are disrespectful to our nation. You would not be here without the military -- you would not have exsisted


If anyone thinks any type of platform will be hear while disrespecting those you are trying to communicate with-- what kind of common sense does that make?

Who are these people defending us from? How many American lives were put on the line defending our country since the WWII - what the fukk are you talking about? We wouldn't exist if not for this imaginary defense against imaginary perpetrators because you said so?

Without education and science our military would be on par with Myanmar. Take away but the technology and no country on earth would give a **** about our military. We couldn't even handle Vietnamese guerillas. The only deterrent is the TECHNOLOGY in the hands of the military. That and not imaginary sacrifices by the military defending our country keeps us safe.

You totally clueless man.
I was on the other site and if no American army Russians will left no stone standing in US.
And Wehrmacht will gladly do the same.
And if no police, firefighter, and first responders you ass will be up for grub any day by anyone who so desire.
Leaving in comfort, security, and prosperity made so many Americans delusional while thinking they are very intellectually sound.
They just sound silly and so no one really taking them seriously. And this is a good thing.

Are you able to read? I didn't say anything about police or firefighters. I said no one gives a rats ass about our military personnel. Our military power is absolute because of our technology superiority and NOT because of the personnel.

Age or Robots it yet to begin.
Soldiers are fighting the war. The real war not punishing Kim, Serbians, or bunch of Muslim rebels.
The war when existence of the way of life of the whole nations is at stake.
The military we have is there for this war never be for us.
And so far they stand to the promise.
But if we will not stand as one behind this soldiers and behind this anthem we will get our-self this real war.
War in which color of you skin will not matter.
Symbols are sometimes bigger that man or the group of man whoever they are.
No one should take it light as it has much bigger consequences that people blinded by security and prosperity given to them think.


I have no idea what that means so I am giving it a pass

This exactly my point.
America is great country which makes majority of the Americans so safe, comfortable, and prosperous that some of them start thinking that this is how the world is made to be.
No. This is how the America was shaped to be by its people.
They were brutal, unethical, and inhuman at times but they build this country.
And our responsibility is to carry on with what they build if we want continue to be safe, comfortable, and prosperous.
Even of we will need to be brutal, unethical, and inhuman at times our-self.

I still have no idea what you are talking about but sounds like you are recommending being brutal, unethical and inhuman (your words not mine) for the "greater good" which often only benefit just a few people.

What I had responded to was the idea (pervasive in right wing media) that every person in the military is risking their lives on a daily basis to defend the country - which is horse$hit in my opinion.

And if we're really being honest, often they're not defending this country but more like defending this country's political ideology.

Those young men fighting in Vietnam were defending this country against what again? We lost that war and how did this country suffer other than wasting the lives of a lot of young men and women? The real suffering resulted from a lot of BS being revealed for the first time on national television and having the whole nation exposed to the lies and corruption of the military.

The folks who fought in WWII, THEY were defending our country. Soldiers since then (through no fault of their own), not so much.

Knickoftime
Posts: 23058
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Joined: 1/13/2011
Member: #3370

9/19/2017  12:55 PM
I'm going to say again I think it's both a shame and dangerous that discourse - which is what we should really be valuing - is being held hostage by some false notion that all 'ideas' are of equal worth, and that merely having an opinion, which anyone conscious can, is what moves us forward.

We've become intimidated to openly acknowledge an objective fact - that there aren't in fact bad ideas, and that there are in fact, people with an inability to simply participate in a discussion, which to my understanding is the point of this place.

This DISCUSSION forum is being trolled - oxygen is being sucked up by individuals - and particularly one - with no inclination and/or ability (it doesn't really matter which one) to exchange ideas. They are only here to incite.

How that makes this a better community is beyond my ability to understand.

martin
Posts: 46163
Alba Posts: 106
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #2
USA
9/19/2017  1:16 PM
Knickoftime wrote:I'm going to say again I think it's both a shame and dangerous that discourse - which is what we should really be valuing - is being held hostage by some false notion that all 'ideas' are of equal worth, and that merely having an opinion, which anyone conscious can, is what moves us forward.

We've become intimidated to openly acknowledge an objective fact - that there aren't in fact bad ideas, and that there are in fact, people with an inability to simply participate in a discussion, which to my understanding is the point of this place.

This DISCUSSION forum is being trolled - oxygen is being sucked up by individuals - and particularly one - with no inclination and/or ability (it doesn't really matter which one) to exchange ideas. They are only here to incite.

How that makes this a better community is beyond my ability to understand.

Yes agreed, time to foreclose this one.

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OT: Standing for the National Anthem

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