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How about this line up
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Knickoftime
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9/13/2017  4:05 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:[–]carlosdelgardo 1 point 4 months ago*
By virtue of league pass, I have watched every game he's been in. I am happy to say that he has improved every facet of his game at least marginally.
He had two stretches where he was out for injuries. Right before each stretch where he sat out, I would say he was probably playing the best basketball of his career, especially in terms of stuff that doesn't show in the traditional stat sheet.
He posted the best shooting and rebounding percentages of his career. Will catch and shoot threes, where even last year he really wanted to dribble into his shot. He can get visibly frustrated if he doesn't get the ball when he's open, but it doesn't diminish his hustle on help defense or on the defensive glass. On another note, he's posting the highest free throw rate of his career, the bulk of his attempts (over 50%) are inside 10 feet. Only 17.5% of his shots come from the mid-range. This is a career low.
Beasley will never be a good man on man defender, but he is willing to put in the effort. He moves his feet, starts off in the right position to meet the drive. Even if he's giving up foot speed defending wings, Beasley can still help funnel and push a dribbler into the path of weak side help. In the post as a positional defender (e.g. when the Bucks go into a zone), he has been a fantastic defensive anchor helping off the weak side and a pretty good defensive rebounder.
His improvement on his 3 point shot has led him to be tasked with waiting in the corner for the kick out. However, his instincts with movement away from the ball remains subpar. If he took a more active roll in cutting away from the ball and diving towards the basket, his stats would look even better.
How good was Beasley? When Khris Middleton went down, Tyler Ennis was traded to Houston for Beasley as a scoring stop gap. Zach Lowe panned the move, boldy stating that Micheal Beasley is never an answer to a basketball question. Not a month latter, Lowe posted 'Beasley has been kinda okay this year' on twitter. Not four months after that, Lowe has nothing but nice things to say.
See here: http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/18843801/zach-lowe-2017-luke-walton-all-stars-nba
Red

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/beaslmi01.html

Michael Beasley has been a bust. Whether he marginally has improved it does not make him a good basketball player. He is not a particularly good rebounder, he is a less willing passer than Carmelo Anthony, he is less of a defender than Carmelo Anthony. He was signed for a minimum salary, which means he was available to all 30 NBA teams, including one that had him last, and including the ones you believe are light-years ahead of the Knicks in identifying talent.

But that isn't even your biggest, dumbest mistake. Even ignoring the things you obviously don't know about his game, and assuming he is good, to go from the petulant '25 win' post a month ago identifying a point guard issue that has not been addressed, to believing the Knicks are now a good team because of Beasley shows a remarkable lack of perspective, not to mention a simple ability to agree with yourself.

Why do you compare Beasley to Carmelo? Im not. I put him in the SL to facilitate KP being our #1 option--thats the whole gig. Beasley represents quality production in a third option slot. YOu dont need to start the 5 best guys--you need to put a balanced squad on the team. This is a building season--so starting Carmelo makes 0 sens eif we are building behind KP as #1. With Carmelo out there in unit 1 --that wont happen. Use your brain for a minute--its like everything you respond to--when did I compare Carmelo to Beasley--I didnt. I put Carmelo in as sixth man so I can start the process of putting KP as my number 1 without Melo on the floor. Its not brain science? Where in the basketball handbook does it say that Melo has to start for the Knicks? He doesnt--we need to transition to KP if that is the avenue--why not start now--he seemed to earn it in the FINA tourney.

Okay, good idea. Let's use our brains.

Were going to absolutely stink without a solid pro pg-- melo here or not. Our team is so unbalanced and if we have to rely on baker and Frank--25 wins tops.

We have barely changed a bad team. We added a Sg who just takes the place of basically the same thing while we lost our vet pg.

They can play ring around the Rosie with Carmelo who cares-- were going to be a top 10 lottery team again with this roster-- even in the shtty east

So using our brains, taking Melo out of the starting lineup and making him a sixth man, cancels all that out?

AUTOADVERT
BRIGGS
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9/13/2017  4:36 PM
arkrud wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:I think you're overrating his defense.

He is. Beasley is demonstrably worse than Melo.

This is confirmation bias to the letter.

This is the whole point.
Melo is the main obstacle for us to do something useful this season.
Competitively lose as many games as possible.
Beasley is not an obstacle...

Its hard to control W-L its not hard to control who the Knicks want as option #1. Anyone comparing beasley and Melo is missing the point. We are devloping a team that will end up WITHOUT melo. So moving Melo to 6th man "makes sense" for the development fo the team.

Even Knickstime contradicts himself completely by saying beasley stinks but we want to lose as many games as possible so we should start Melo? Then Knickstime should WANT MB to start?????????? over Melo anyway????? The main process to this season is to develop FRank KP and Willy. Melo should be 6th man for a number of reasons. Hes better than the 64 group BUT he is NOT better than either Kevin Mchale or Manu Ginobli--if the 6th man spot is good for superior players who were champions--than its good for him too.

Knickoftime
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9/13/2017  5:10 PM
BRIGGS wrote:Even Knickstime contradicts himself completely by saying beasley stinks but we want to lose as many games as possible so we should start Melo? Then Knickstime should WANT MB to start?????????? over Melo anyway?????

To a degree I envy you your lack of intellectual conscience.

I never wrote I want the Knicks to lose as many games as possible. What I've written consistently is I think Knick should get rid of Melo, and then try they hardest they can do when as many games as possible.

I have no problem is they start Beasley, who isn't very good, if he's outplaying Lance Thomas.

On top of that, it's got nothing to do with anything I posted.

This does:

BRIGGS wrote:Were going to absolutely stink without a solid pro pg-- melo here or not. Our team is so unbalanced and if we have to rely on baker and Frank--25 wins tops.

We have barely changed a bad team. We added a Sg who just takes the place of basically the same thing while we lost our vet pg.

They can play ring around the Rosie with Carmelo who cares-- were going to be a top 10 lottery team again with this roster-- even in the shtty east

Why doesn't all this still apply?

Why aren't you answering this question?

TLover
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9/13/2017  5:32 PM
Best line-up:

C- KP
Pf- Melo
Sf- C.Lee
Sg- Hardaway
Pg- Frank

fishmike
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9/13/2017  5:37 PM
TLover wrote:Best line-up:

C- KP
Pf- Melo
Sf- C.Lee
Sg- Hardaway
Pg- Frank

not only do I agree but I would bet thats our opening day line up. Bench will be Sessions, Baker, Dotson, Lance, Willy in no order. I suspect Baker may get buried behind Sessions. Lance/Kuz are on even ground with Lance getting the nod for defense. However if he shoots like he did last year I think he loses this spot to Kuz or Beasley.
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BRIGGS
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9/13/2017  5:42 PM
TLover wrote:Best line-up:

C- KP
Pf- Melo
Sf- C.Lee
Sg- Hardaway
Pg- Frank

How does that develop the team going 4 ward?

We return to stagnant first option of melo holding the ball a great deal-- and not turning to kp as option 1? No 38 minutes of melo starting is not a good idea. Kp should be given the 1 spot
And melo should have a good role but a role that contributes more to development of players here. A respectful position is 6 th man w 24-28 minutes of playing time

HofstraBBall
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9/13/2017  7:58 PM    LAST EDITED: 9/13/2017  8:33 PM
BRIGGS wrote:c--kp
F-- Beasley
F--lance Thomas
G Tim Hardaway
G Frank N

6th man Carmelo
7th willy G
8th C Lee
9 Dotson
10 Baker

I think this line up( as long as frank and Dotson earn it) might do some damage. You are promoting Kp to the # 1 spot but you still have Beasley and Timmy for the extra punch scoring with Lance as the role player to balance.

In unit 2 I'd expect big contribution from Carmelo in the way of a ginobli or Mchale as a 28 minute 6 man. And same contributions from willy surrounded by 3 guards-- can also use Kuz oquinn and Sessions in different match ups
Keep all minutes down for all players to 30 max

Let's go with

KP
Beasley
Dotson
Baker
Frank

Have everyone pass KP the ball and play D.

2nd Unit
Willy
KP
Lance
Lee
Sessions

Have everyone pass KP the ball.

Bring Melo and Timmy off the bench(only when KP is tired)
Cuz they score way too often and take shots away from KP.

You lost me with KP at the 5???? Have you ever seen KP play?

Melo Haters = Lin lovers who are mad Houston paid so much for his 15 Minutes,
reub
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9/13/2017  8:02 PM
TLover wrote:Best line-up:

C- KP
Pf- Melo
Sf- C.Lee
Sg- Hardaway
Pg- Frank

Being that Willy is our best player how is keeping him out of the starting lineup good? Who is going to rebound the ball?

Knickoftime
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9/13/2017  8:43 PM
reub wrote:
TLover wrote:Best line-up:

C- KP
Pf- Melo
Sf- C.Lee
Sg- Hardaway
Pg- Frank

Being that Willy is our best player...

When did that happen?

TLover
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9/13/2017  8:48 PM
reub wrote:
TLover wrote:Best line-up:

C- KP
Pf- Melo
Sf- C.Lee
Sg- Hardaway
Pg- Frank

Being that Willy is our best player how is keeping him out of the starting lineup good? Who is going to rebound the ball?

Jeff Hornacek had Channing Frye as his starting center & Markieff Morris at the 4 in Phoenix.
KP & Melo will play those roles much better.

As for rebounding, Melo can get 10 per game if playing 4. Also we all know Melo playing the 4 is much better for him & the team.
C.Lee will be needed for his perimeter D on 3's and think he will be better suited to play SF.
Combine that with Frank, we have 2 quality perimeter defenders to go with Hardaway at the 2.

Willy will be the 6th man to sub in for either KP or Melo. He will play plenty.

Paris907
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9/13/2017  9:02 PM
Knicks had a # 2 pick in D Williams and he played well enough to be in the rotation consistently.
Now Beasley has his limitations clearly and I don't envision him increasing our win total in any material way. Yet this team as configured will be challenged to score points. KP and presumably Melo (off or on the bench) will score and so will THJr but an additional match up who can put up 15-20 per nite IF GIVEN THE MINUTES can help whether he plays d or not. Melo doesn't either.

Frankly if overachieving is 34 wins then what difference will it make. Lee and Quinn and Thomas can score but none are offensive minded. Likewise Wily is improved but can't be relied upon yet as a night in night out 15-16 PT scorer. Likewise Nitty won't score consistently. So in terms of offensive machinery, it's Melo/ KP/ Beasley/ Thjr
Probably in that order and Beasley comes just a wee bit cheaper than Timmy.

Good Job Briggs.

HofstraBBall
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9/14/2017  11:55 AM
TLover wrote:
reub wrote:
TLover wrote:Best line-up:

C- KP
Pf- Melo
Sf- C.Lee
Sg- Hardaway
Pg- Frank

Being that Willy is our best player how is keeping him out of the starting lineup good? Who is going to rebound the ball?

Jeff Hornacek had Channing Frye as his starting center & Markieff Morris at the 4 in Phoenix.
KP & Melo will play those roles much better.

As for rebounding, Melo can get 10 per game if playing 4. Also we all know Melo playing the 4 is much better for him & the team.
C.Lee will be needed for his perimeter D on 3's and think he will be better suited to play SF.
Combine that with Frank, we have 2 quality perimeter defenders to go with Hardaway at the 2.

Willy will be the 6th man to sub in for either KP or Melo. He will play plenty.

Liked the concept. For last year. Fact is Melo is not coming back. But let's say he is. KP has proven he would average under 20 minutes at the 5. Due to foul trouble and broken ribs.

Melo Haters = Lin lovers who are mad Houston paid so much for his 15 Minutes,
fishmike
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9/14/2017  3:05 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
TLover wrote:
reub wrote:
TLover wrote:Best line-up:

C- KP
Pf- Melo
Sf- C.Lee
Sg- Hardaway
Pg- Frank

Being that Willy is our best player how is keeping him out of the starting lineup good? Who is going to rebound the ball?

Jeff Hornacek had Channing Frye as his starting center & Markieff Morris at the 4 in Phoenix.
KP & Melo will play those roles much better.

As for rebounding, Melo can get 10 per game if playing 4. Also we all know Melo playing the 4 is much better for him & the team.
C.Lee will be needed for his perimeter D on 3's and think he will be better suited to play SF.
Combine that with Frank, we have 2 quality perimeter defenders to go with Hardaway at the 2.

Willy will be the 6th man to sub in for either KP or Melo. He will play plenty.

Liked the concept. For last year. Fact is Melo is not coming back. But let's say he is. KP has proven he would average under 20 minutes at the 5. Due to foul trouble and broken ribs.

what do you know that we dont???? I mean we all know he wants to go. We all know management would like to make a GOOD trade, and I think its well established they wont take a bad one. So what gives? All signs point to him being a Knick to start the season no?
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jrodmc
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9/18/2017  11:51 AM
fishmike wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
TLover wrote:
reub wrote:
TLover wrote:Best line-up:

C- KP
Pf- Melo
Sf- C.Lee
Sg- Hardaway
Pg- Frank

Being that Willy is our best player how is keeping him out of the starting lineup good? Who is going to rebound the ball?

Jeff Hornacek had Channing Frye as his starting center & Markieff Morris at the 4 in Phoenix.
KP & Melo will play those roles much better.

As for rebounding, Melo can get 10 per game if playing 4. Also we all know Melo playing the 4 is much better for him & the team.
C.Lee will be needed for his perimeter D on 3's and think he will be better suited to play SF.
Combine that with Frank, we have 2 quality perimeter defenders to go with Hardaway at the 2.

Willy will be the 6th man to sub in for either KP or Melo. He will play plenty.

Liked the concept. For last year. Fact is Melo is not coming back. But let's say he is. KP has proven he would average under 20 minutes at the 5. Due to foul trouble and broken ribs.

what do you know that we dont???? I mean we all know he wants to go. We all know management would like to make a GOOD trade, and I think its well established they wont take a bad one. So what gives? All signs point to him being a Knick to start the season no?

So, let's recap, shall we?

KP, despite showing nothing more than an inkling of being a transcendant superstar yet, is to play the 5 and be the number one option on offense there with an unproven post game. Not sure how that works.

Melo is now a third stringer at best. A very well respected third stringer. Or he's just not here anymore, provided we can just trade him somewhere for nothing while continuing to ignore that he has that darn NTC.

Willy is our best player. Our best player who's -31 when starting.

When last I checked, the only person on the team worse defensively last season than C Lee was D Rose. But C. Lee is now our lockdown perimeter defender. Got it.

Go Knicks!

How bout this:
5 - Noah - show up or blow up and get lost.
4- KP - show us those improved muscles and post game and show Noah a seat on the coaching bench quickly
3 - Melo - he's not Hoodie Highlights so he can back up Kuz, sorry to inform you all.
2 - TH Jr
1 - Frank

You guys spend a lot of time commenting on the internet?
knicks1248
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9/18/2017  12:08 PM
fishmike wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:c--kp
F-- Beasley
F--lance Thomas
G Tim Hardaway
G Frank N

6th man Carmelo
7th willy G
8th C Lee
9 Dotson
10 Baker

I think this line up( as long as frank and Dotson earn it) might do some damage. You are promoting Kp to the # 1 spot but you still have Beasley and Timmy for the extra punch scoring with Lance as the role player to balance.

In unit 2 I'd expect big contribution from Carmelo in the way of a ginobli or Mchale as a 28 minute 6 man. And same contributions from willy surrounded by 3 guards-- can also use Kuz oquinn and Sessions in different match ups
Keep all minutes down for all players to 30 max

Do you live in the real world? Have a real job? You trade equities right? Lets say you were the top producer at your trading firm for say 7 straight years. Then the firm decided to bring in some new blood. Younger less experienced guys, but high potential. Maybe quant from MIT out of college. Maybe a guy from another firm. Now they tell you all your trades must be approved by these kids. Oh.. and your capital has been cut in half. Now I am sure you are just going to embrace this right? Be a good soldier? Maybe give the new kids as much knowledge as you can?

Wake up. There is zero reason or chance. You asking Melo to play behind Lance Thomas and Beasley... a guy's best days were in... China? You show reality here. This is not a video game. This is not your kid's youth league. These are professional grown men

Maybe can revisit this in a week when you post the same thing again

+1

I guess we still can agree on them things

ES
How about this line up

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