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Melo ranked 64 by ESPN. Thinks it's high or low?
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arkrud
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9/15/2017  11:27 PM
Its quite amazing...
The organization already moved on on Melo.
Melo himself already moved on.
But some Knick fans are still holding on to the ghost of the past...
Somebody is really due to serious depression when Melo will finally move on to another place where he can get more money with less trouble.
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GustavBahler
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9/16/2017  12:33 PM
Coming to a store near you......


nyknickzingis
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9/16/2017  2:23 PM
This is based on Melo declining this coming season.
If it is based on last year, do not agree with it.

I think Melo is a top 35 player based on last season.
However the things he does well, they are not exactly things that impact games as much as other aspects.

For example a player that can anchor the paint, or a player that can defend wings at an elite level while shooting the 3, in my opinion in today's league has more value than Melo. Melo is a scoring machine, but it also comes at a cost. He needs high volume touches, and a high usage rate. He holds on to the ball long, and this disorganizes the flow of the offense. Great 1 on 1 players have to be all time dominant to win playing this way. Not many players play this way and win at a high rate. There's Michael, Kobe and a few others. Those guys were much much better at doing what Melo does.

He needed to become a more all around player in his career once he saw he could not win playing the Jordan type of game. Wish he adjusted his game and became more of a Lebron like player in regards to being a willing passer, constantly trying to get his teammates open shots. Or do what he allegedly would in Houston. Focus on catch and shoots, and defense.

It just seems so many really talented wings grew up idolizing Jordan and all wound up trying to play like him. Other than Kobe, no one really succeeded.

nixluva
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9/17/2017  3:40 PM
This is a very solid piece of research on where Melo stands. You should go to the original article to see the charts.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20728069/kevin-pelton-weekly-mailbag-including-carmelo-anthony-superstars-more

Kevin Pelton
ESPN Staff Writer

I do. First off, let's be clear that we're not talking the prime Carmelo Anthony that was a deserving All-Star and finished with a better ranking in previous editions of #NBArank.

Let's take a look at the two primary components of scoring -- efficiency and volume -- graphically over Anthony's career with the Knicks (starting in 2011-12, his first full season in New York).

Oddly, Anthony's share of the Knicks' offense has moved downward almost in lockstep with his efficiency (measured here by true shooting percentage plus, or TS+, Anthony's true shooting relative to league average). In 2012-13, when New York won 54 games, Anthony led the league in usage rate while still scoring at above-average efficiency. By last season, despite playing a smaller role in the Knicks' offense, Anthony still scored with the worst relative efficiency of his NBA career.

Here are the players with the most similar seasons to Anthony's 2016-17 in terms of usage and TS+:

Oddly, Anthony's share of the Knicks' offense has moved downward almost in lockstep with his efficiency (measured here by true shooting percentage plus, or TS+, Anthony's true shooting relative to league average). In 2012-13, when New York won 54 games, Anthony led the league in usage rate while still scoring at above-average efficiency. By last season, despite playing a smaller role in the Knicks' offense, Anthony still scored with the worst relative efficiency of his NBA career.

Here are the players with the most similar seasons to Anthony's 2016-17 in terms of usage and TS+:

The trick here is defining what constitutes a "superstar." Unlike Penny Hardaway, I'm not going to incorporate off-court popularity as part of the definition. And because they're constant from year to year, we can't utilize subjective factors like All-Star appearances and All-NBA selections. So I'm going to look at players who met various thresholds of production as measured by my wins above replacement player (WARP) metric over time.

Here's a look at three thresholds: the number of players with at least 10 WARP, at least 15 WARP and at least 20 WARP per season dating to 1977-78.

I feel a little like Goldilocks looking at that chart. The first cutoff, 10 WARP, is too low. A couple of dozen players qualify on average; these players are stars (and typically All-Stars) but not necessarily superstars. The last cutoff, 20 WARP, is too high to be useful here; only a couple of players qualify most seasons.

(The outlier was 1989-90, when an incredible seven players surpassed 20 WARP, more than the past three seasons combined. It's not a coincidence this came shortly before the 1992 USA Olympic men's basketball team was nicknamed "The Dream Team.")

That leaves 15 WARP as just right to capture superstars, as I see it. And indeed, the number of such players was up last season: 12, tied for third most behind 2001-02 (13) and 2005-06 (an improbable 16). That reversed a recent trend of decline among players with 15-plus WARP, which can be attributed largely to stars playing fewer minutes and tending to get injured more frequently.

CrushAlot
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9/17/2017  4:29 PM
nixluva wrote:This is a very solid piece of research on where Melo stands. You should go to the original article to see the charts.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20728069/kevin-pelton-weekly-mailbag-including-carmelo-anthony-superstars-more

Kevin Pelton
ESPN Staff Writer

I do. First off, let's be clear that we're not talking the prime Carmelo Anthony that was a deserving All-Star and finished with a better ranking in previous editions of #NBArank.

Let's take a look at the two primary components of scoring -- efficiency and volume -- graphically over Anthony's career with the Knicks (starting in 2011-12, his first full season in New York).

Oddly, Anthony's share of the Knicks' offense has moved downward almost in lockstep with his efficiency (measured here by true shooting percentage plus, or TS+, Anthony's true shooting relative to league average). In 2012-13, when New York won 54 games, Anthony led the league in usage rate while still scoring at above-average efficiency. By last season, despite playing a smaller role in the Knicks' offense, Anthony still scored with the worst relative efficiency of his NBA career.

Here are the players with the most similar seasons to Anthony's 2016-17 in terms of usage and TS+:

Oddly, Anthony's share of the Knicks' offense has moved downward almost in lockstep with his efficiency (measured here by true shooting percentage plus, or TS+, Anthony's true shooting relative to league average). In 2012-13, when New York won 54 games, Anthony led the league in usage rate while still scoring at above-average efficiency. By last season, despite playing a smaller role in the Knicks' offense, Anthony still scored with the worst relative efficiency of his NBA career.

Here are the players with the most similar seasons to Anthony's 2016-17 in terms of usage and TS+:

The trick here is defining what constitutes a "superstar." Unlike Penny Hardaway, I'm not going to incorporate off-court popularity as part of the definition. And because they're constant from year to year, we can't utilize subjective factors like All-Star appearances and All-NBA selections. So I'm going to look at players who met various thresholds of production as measured by my wins above replacement player (WARP) metric over time.

Here's a look at three thresholds: the number of players with at least 10 WARP, at least 15 WARP and at least 20 WARP per season dating to 1977-78.

I feel a little like Goldilocks looking at that chart. The first cutoff, 10 WARP, is too low. A couple of dozen players qualify on average; these players are stars (and typically All-Stars) but not necessarily superstars. The last cutoff, 20 WARP, is too high to be useful here; only a couple of players qualify most seasons.

(The outlier was 1989-90, when an incredible seven players surpassed 20 WARP, more than the past three seasons combined. It's not a coincidence this came shortly before the 1992 USA Olympic men's basketball team was nicknamed "The Dream Team.")

That leaves 15 WARP as just right to capture superstars, as I see it. And indeed, the number of such players was up last season: 12, tied for third most behind 2001-02 (13) and 2005-06 (an improbable 16). That reversed a recent trend of decline among players with 15-plus WARP, which can be attributed largely to stars playing fewer minutes and tending to get injured more frequently.

Pelton's stuff is always good. Unfortunately, I don't think the rankings were done based on Pelton's research/stats. I might be wrong but I tried to find information on what the rankings were based on and I didn't find anything definitive.
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Bonn1997
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9/17/2017  4:35 PM
Interesting. I always thought Melo's game resembled World B Free's.
TripleThreat
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9/17/2017  5:04 PM
Rankings like this happen in part to brand relationship to said player.

Kyrie Irving just got traded. He's a Nike endorsed athlete. So you think he's gonna dip too far on this list?

When Kris Humpheries and Lamar Odom were married to Kardashians, what do you think happened to the marketing spin around them? They got way more burn in game promos, they got way better calls on the floor, they got way more interview and face time with the press.

If Ron Baker was banging Taylor Swift and got engaged to her, how many free throws do you think he's shoot a game? 85? 142? It would be insane.

These lists are a function of how many shoes do you sell? How many cheeseburgers? How likely are you going to hook up with a pop star?

Magic Johnson has a gay son. Does it matter that he's gay? Not to everyone else, but to him. He was interviewed ( why? what did he do for sports? did he invent a cure for cancer) talking about how he wanted to be a public "icon" for the pro gay movement and general acceptance. He wants to be famous for what exactly? For being the son of someone famous so he can talk about who is sleeping with and let that define him?

If you want to take someone like that seriously, with a media set up to take someone like him seriously ( I don't care who he sleeps with, but actually ACHIEVE SOMETHING SOMEWHERE IN SPORTS OR SOMETHING IF YOU WANT TO BE AN ICON) , does that mean that lists like this should be taken seriously?

How many shoes can you sell? Can you get a cameo in an episode of Entourage? Can kids in another place in the world who can't speak English scream your name because you have your own cologne line? Can you dunk over a car?

Athletes care less about winning and being the best player they can be and focus on wearing stupid hats and wine baths and making social statements on social media because they get rewarded for it in some way. With attention and validation. Instead of something like winning and achievement.

At some level, these lists, like most of the NBA, in some facet, you just cannot take seriously.

Since you came on this board you have been way off in regards to trade value. - Briggs 7/28/2015
Paris907
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11/8/2017  5:23 PM
Melo is sinking like a rock in OKC already now at 47, and soon out of top 50 with several shooting nights of 3-17 and 4-17 etc. glad he’s gone. Brand Melo say bye bye and rank of 65 is accurate before long
Melo ranked 64 by ESPN. Thinks it's high or low?

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