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We need to draft Doncic
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Gudris
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9/12/2017  6:07 PM
AUTOADVERT
awe1028
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9/12/2017  7:01 PM
Gudris wrote:

You beat me to it. Doncic (and Michael Porter) is exactly why you root for the Knicks to lose a whole lot of games and get a whole lot of ping pong balls in the 2018 draft.
KP4Life
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9/12/2017  7:42 PM
yup he can be our point forward

PG Frank
SG THJR
SF Donic (if melo leaves hopefully)
PF:Willy/KP
C: Willy/KP

KEEPCAMBYNY
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9/13/2017  12:34 AM
With Doncic, it is only a matter of time before we take over the east. I like this lineup:

Willy
KP
Donicic
3&D player from Melo trade
Frank
--------------------------
6. THJr.
7. Melo trade piece/ FA/draft pick
8. Melo trade piece/ FA/draft pick
9. Dotson
10. Ron Baker

This team will noy only be exciting, but can be a serious force going forward.

I bleed orange and blue for life.
TripleThreat
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9/13/2017  1:08 AM
awe1028 wrote:You beat me to it. Doncic (and Michael Porter) is exactly why you root for the Knicks to lose a whole lot of games and get a whole lot of ping pong balls in the 2018 draft.

Depends on if you think the NBA draft is rigged or not. I believe it is, and based on that, my best guess is the Clippers and/or Minnesota will end up with the top two picks.

Less than 80 percent of all POTENTIAL playoff games were played last postseason. Why is that? Both conferences were very very top heavy. That's a lot of lost revenue. Cleveland will be gutted after this season, but Golden State has to drive Adam Silver nuts. They destroy everyone and they aren't that marketable. (not compared to some wannabe rapper who shoots up nightclubs and gets 15 stewardesses pregnant and has his own cologne and dunks over a car - you know the kind of players that NBA love to market with full swag and fervor)

If you are a new owner or an owner who spent big recently on a franchise, the NBA wants you to win. Because winning and winning FAST is an incentive for more non NBA owners to bid and bid crazy to get a team and hop on that ride. The Carolina Panthers and Jacksonville Jaguars got extra picks their first year for a reason. If they both win and win fast, it ups the valuation of ALL FRANCHISES.

Ballmer spend TWO BILLION on the Clippers. Paul is gone and Griffin is probably going to get hurt. And they have no reason to be a treadmill team.

Minnesota can actually be in a position to slow down Golden State and drag out a series.

The league would have gift wrapped either Doncic or Porter to the Lakers if they had a pick. But they don't. Clearly the league wants the Lakers/Celtic rivalry to be reborn. Clearly LBJ and Paul George will end up on the Lakers next season.

Knicks have no chance at Doncic or Porter. Was there any doubt where Anthony Davis was going to go? Kyrie Irving? LBJ? Derrick Rose? This draft process is so rigged that people in the industry just joke about it in public now.

If the Knicks want top lottery picks from now on, Dolan has TO SELL THE TEAM FOR A RECORD PRICE, and the new ownership will be "gifted" some top lottery picks as the bounty for raising the value of all franchises with some stupid over the top offer.

Since you came on this board you have been way off in regards to trade value. - Briggs 7/28/2015
Zebo13
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9/13/2017  2:59 AM
TripleThreat wrote:
awe1028 wrote:You beat me to it. Doncic (and Michael Porter) is exactly why you root for the Knicks to lose a whole lot of games and get a whole lot of ping pong balls in the 2018 draft.

Depends on if you think the NBA draft is rigged or not. I believe it is, and based on that, my best guess is the Clippers and/or Minnesota will end up with the top two picks.

Less than 80 percent of all POTENTIAL playoff games were played last postseason. Why is that? Both conferences were very very top heavy. That's a lot of lost revenue. Cleveland will be gutted after this season, but Golden State has to drive Adam Silver nuts. They destroy everyone and they aren't that marketable. (not compared to some wannabe rapper who shoots up nightclubs and gets 15 stewardesses pregnant and has his own cologne and dunks over a car - you know the kind of players that NBA love to market with full swag and fervor)

If you are a new owner or an owner who spent big recently on a franchise, the NBA wants you to win. Because winning and winning FAST is an incentive for more non NBA owners to bid and bid crazy to get a team and hop on that ride. The Carolina Panthers and Jacksonville Jaguars got extra picks their first year for a reason. If they both win and win fast, it ups the valuation of ALL FRANCHISES.

Ballmer spend TWO BILLION on the Clippers. Paul is gone and Griffin is probably going to get hurt. And they have no reason to be a treadmill team.

Minnesota can actually be in a position to slow down Golden State and drag out a series.

The league would have gift wrapped either Doncic or Porter to the Lakers if they had a pick. But they don't. Clearly the league wants the Lakers/Celtic rivalry to be reborn. Clearly LBJ and Paul George will end up on the Lakers next season.

Knicks have no chance at Doncic or Porter. Was there any doubt where Anthony Davis was going to go? Kyrie Irving? LBJ? Derrick Rose? This draft process is so rigged that people in the industry just joke about it in public now.

If the Knicks want top lottery picks from now on, Dolan has TO SELL THE TEAM FOR A RECORD PRICE, and the new ownership will be "gifted" some top lottery picks as the bounty for raising the value of all franchises with some stupid over the top offer.

Sounds pretty spot on.

Vmart
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9/13/2017  8:54 AM
TripleThreat wrote:
awe1028 wrote:You beat me to it. Doncic (and Michael Porter) is exactly why you root for the Knicks to lose a whole lot of games and get a whole lot of ping pong balls in the 2018 draft.

Depends on if you think the NBA draft is rigged or not. I believe it is, and based on that, my best guess is the Clippers and/or Minnesota will end up with the top two picks.

Less than 80 percent of all POTENTIAL playoff games were played last postseason. Why is that? Both conferences were very very top heavy. That's a lot of lost revenue. Cleveland will be gutted after this season, but Golden State has to drive Adam Silver nuts. They destroy everyone and they aren't that marketable. (not compared to some wannabe rapper who shoots up nightclubs and gets 15 stewardesses pregnant and has his own cologne and dunks over a car - you know the kind of players that NBA love to market with full swag and fervor)

If you are a new owner or an owner who spent big recently on a franchise, the NBA wants you to win. Because winning and winning FAST is an incentive for more non NBA owners to bid and bid crazy to get a team and hop on that ride. The Carolina Panthers and Jacksonville Jaguars got extra picks their first year for a reason. If they both win and win fast, it ups the valuation of ALL FRANCHISES.

Ballmer spend TWO BILLION on the Clippers. Paul is gone and Griffin is probably going to get hurt. And they have no reason to be a treadmill team.

Minnesota can actually be in a position to slow down Golden State and drag out a series.

The league would have gift wrapped either Doncic or Porter to the Lakers if they had a pick. But they don't. Clearly the league wants the Lakers/Celtic rivalry to be reborn. Clearly LBJ and Paul George will end up on the Lakers next season.

Knicks have no chance at Doncic or Porter. Was there any doubt where Anthony Davis was going to go? Kyrie Irving? LBJ? Derrick Rose? This draft process is so rigged that people in the industry just joke about it in public now.

If the Knicks want top lottery picks from now on, Dolan has TO SELL THE TEAM FOR A RECORD PRICE, and the new ownership will be "gifted" some top lottery picks as the bounty for raising the value of all franchises with some stupid over the top offer.

I agree with you in this I always think NBA or any sports as a Business entity first. That determines what you get. The reason Knicks were gifted Pat Ewing back in the days was because MSG wasn't selling out there were a lot of empty seats. The reason Cleveland was gifted 3 first picks was because LBJ left for the betterment of the NBA. They live super teams formula always have.

Now Nalod will just poopoo it as conspiracy theory.

SupremeCommander
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9/13/2017  10:12 AM
I said Doncic or Porter in another thread yesterday too. The good news is Porter is the bigger name... I am unsure which is the better player to this point, but given that Doncic is an international player, and we have a bunch of international players, I think Doncic is a perfect fit
Jimmy D w/o a straight shot said: In two hours, [Jackson] taught me basketball, and I learned I know nothing about basketball
Nalod
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9/13/2017  10:44 AM
Right, conspiracy works to hurt the team in the biggest market and that helps the league?
Why would the NBA do that?
The owners own the league, and some of you think this kind of thing would sit well with them?
I can see wanting to extend TV series but the other reality is do you think the owners of the GSW would put up with losing a series if the league actually did this and a player got hurt and they lost a series?

Im not naive, but the notion of conspiracy is often bloated.

The mess the knicks created was done so mostly with their own stupidity!

As for who to draft? Yeah, we fans all know what we need. Its the path to it that can never be predicted.

Anger sells, don't buy!
Gudris
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9/13/2017  11:52 AM
Doncic said in interview yesterday he wants to be like KP and KP is maybe the best in the world
KP4Life
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9/13/2017  12:30 PM
If NBA draft is rigged (which I believe it is) why havent ww been gifted a number 1 since 1985? Shit I feels like we have the worst luck in the last ten years in drafting. We always end up going down. Not up. Meanwhile cavs gets 3 #1s in like 5 years. Seems crazy fishy to me. I think in the next few years we will be gifted a number 1 by stern. But who knows.
KP4Life
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9/13/2017  12:31 PM
*silver
franco12
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9/13/2017  1:24 PM
Nalod wrote:Right, conspiracy works to hurt the team in the biggest market and that helps the league?
Why would the NBA do that?
The owners own the league, and some of you think this kind of thing would sit well with them?
I can see wanting to extend TV series but the other reality is do you think the owners of the GSW would put up with losing a series if the league actually did this and a player got hurt and they lost a series?

Im not naive, but the notion of conspiracy is often bloated.

The mess the knicks created was done so mostly with their own stupidity!

As for who to draft? Yeah, we fans all know what we need. Its the path to it that can never be predicted.

Its fun to believe in conspiracy theories.

But here I kinda think if there were some shenanigans going on, then a team like NYC with probably more ex-NYers living all over the country would have been rewarded at some point to help us. Look at any of our road games- more fans are wearing our gear than just about any franchise.

Any time you see fans at road games wearing GS or Chicago Bulls, its cause they are front running fans.

Welpee
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9/13/2017  1:24 PM    LAST EDITED: 9/13/2017  3:24 PM
TripleThreat wrote:
awe1028 wrote:You beat me to it. Doncic (and Michael Porter) is exactly why you root for the Knicks to lose a whole lot of games and get a whole lot of ping pong balls in the 2018 draft.

Depends on if you think the NBA draft is rigged or not. I believe it is, and based on that, my best guess is the Clippers and/or Minnesota will end up with the top two picks.

Less than 80 percent of all POTENTIAL playoff games were played last postseason. Why is that? Both conferences were very very top heavy. That's a lot of lost revenue. Cleveland will be gutted after this season, but Golden State has to drive Adam Silver nuts. They destroy everyone and they aren't that marketable. (not compared to some wannabe rapper who shoots up nightclubs and gets 15 stewardesses pregnant and has his own cologne and dunks over a car - you know the kind of players that NBA love to market with full swag and fervor)

If you are a new owner or an owner who spent big recently on a franchise, the NBA wants you to win. Because winning and winning FAST is an incentive for more non NBA owners to bid and bid crazy to get a team and hop on that ride. The Carolina Panthers and Jacksonville Jaguars got extra picks their first year for a reason. If they both win and win fast, it ups the valuation of ALL FRANCHISES.

Ballmer spend TWO BILLION on the Clippers. Paul is gone and Griffin is probably going to get hurt. And they have no reason to be a treadmill team.

Minnesota can actually be in a position to slow down Golden State and drag out a series.

The league would have gift wrapped either Doncic or Porter to the Lakers if they had a pick. But they don't. Clearly the league wants the Lakers/Celtic rivalry to be reborn. Clearly LBJ and Paul George will end up on the Lakers next season.

Knicks have no chance at Doncic or Porter. Was there any doubt where Anthony Davis was going to go? Kyrie Irving? LBJ? Derrick Rose? This draft process is so rigged that people in the industry just joke about it in public now.

If the Knicks want top lottery picks from now on, Dolan has TO SELL THE TEAM FOR A RECORD PRICE, and the new ownership will be "gifted" some top lottery picks as the bounty for raising the value of all franchises with some stupid over the top offer.

And the Wizards got the #1 pick (John Wall) the draft after their owner Abe Pollin died in spite of having the 5th best odds.
Nalod
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9/13/2017  1:29 PM
Even the worst team only has a 25% chance of the top pick.
THe odds are never in the worst teams favor.
How many times the Knicks even been in the running for a top 5 pick?
We don't rebuild until recently. We dropped two spots with KP and got lucky. Better KP than Ok4 or Russell.
I'd have taken Towns No. 1. For that matter, I think few have the stones to admit they'd taken KP at the 2.

Moving on, the draft conspiracy is all fabricated because some of you think the league runs the draft. Its the owners league!!!!!
KNicks used to have monetary advantages, and we blew it.
We made bad trades.
We traded Eddy for two first round picks and proceeded to be really bad.
No, im not bitching about league conspiracy when ignorance and short term greed ruled this teams decisions.
Nobody put a gun to Detroits head and made them take Darko over Melo.
Clev got lucky cuz it positioned it self to be lucky when they got Lebron.
Sonics got lucky when Portland took Oden.
Why would league want to have a weak NY team???
Does ESPN hate the knicks cuz they NY? Do they hate on the Yankees?
Winning matters.

Anger sells, don't buy!
TripleThreat
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9/13/2017  1:43 PM
Nalod wrote:Right, conspiracy works to hurt the team in the biggest market and that helps the league?
Why would the NBA do that?

The mess the knicks created was done so mostly with their own stupidity!


What is the biggest cash cow for the NBA?

The massive TV contracts they get. We are talking BILLIONS. Those networks only VALUE those NBA games to be broadcast because of the ratings they get, which means they can charge for commercial time to corporations and brands and sponsors. If the NBA consistently only has less than 80 percent of it's total potential playoff games happening, what do you think happens?

The networks say, we are spending BILLIONS. And instead of filling in critical blocks of air time with high value NBA games, we are watching the GS Warriors sweep team after team 4-0 in blowouts. No nailbiters, no narrative to push, no drama, just a complete massacre by Steph Curry and friends to crush everyone.

The networks say, we want a return on our investment, we aren't getting it. All this potential revenue is LOST.

The local sponsors also feel the hit. Every extra playoff game means massive revenue to the host city, the surrounding businesses and the city in general. The local political structure wants to know, all the breaks we cut you, all the extras, all our support and our contacts and networking, where is the return on our investment?

Why do NBA games take a half hour to play the last 3-4 minutes of clock in a tick tack foul-a-thon. Because if games were only two hours, the valuation of commercial time would change. The valuation of time to sell more concessions, jerseys, stuffed Melo dolls, etc, takes a hit. Local bars don't pour as much beers. Sports themed places don't sell as many nachos.

The networks block out three hours for a game, they WANT THREE HOURS WORTH OF VALUE.

79 out of 105 total potential playoff games were played last offseason.

If the difference in sending Porter and/or Doncic to anyone but the Knicks means they get to 92 out of 105 ( basically getting half of what they lost the year before), do you think the NBA does it? Not just for the immediate revenue, but also to protect that TV contract and all future TV contracts?

You do have a point though. The Knicks are self inflicted stupid. The league did help the Celtics by gifting them the first pick, but to be in that position, Boston had to help itself first. Good signings, careful trades, good resource management. So yes, if the Knicks do better and make better moves, the league will see more incentive to give it that once last piece or last few pieces to push it over the top to get the right "league narrative"

If the NBA could get another half billion in a big TV contract, they'd murder an entire preschool if they had to do it. They'd kill every last child of every last member of UK here. They'd burn them alive like Shireen in Game of Thrones. Every major pro sport has it's own security element. We are talking, not just retired law enforcement and retired gurus from the civil legal system, but mercenaries, former military, contractors, information brokers. A private army. You think when MLB put it's foothold into Latin America and baseball there that there was no bloodshed? It could be basketball, it could be women's makeup, it could be Post It notes, put enough money into something and people are gonna get clipped. If they are willing to cut your childrens throats in front of you for a few nickels in your pocket, you think they are going to hesitate to rig a machine go spit out one ping pong ball over another?

Look, if you don't think it's all rigged, you don't, I respect that, I respect your viewpoint and right to it.

And I think you bring up a good point, the Knicks have to help themselves here as well.

My take? Put yourself in a position where the marketing and "narrative" determines it's in the best interest of the NBA to cheat for you.

Since you came on this board you have been way off in regards to trade value. - Briggs 7/28/2015
fishmike
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9/13/2017  1:48 PM
TripleThreat wrote:
Nalod wrote:Right, conspiracy works to hurt the team in the biggest market and that helps the league?
Why would the NBA do that?

The mess the knicks created was done so mostly with their own stupidity!


What is the biggest cash cow for the NBA?

The massive TV contracts they get. We are talking BILLIONS. Those networks only VALUE those NBA games to be broadcast because of the ratings they get, which means they can charge for commercial time to corporations and brands and sponsors. If the NBA consistently only has less than 80 percent of it's total potential playoff games happening, what do you think happens?

The networks say, we are spending BILLIONS. And instead of filling in critical blocks of air time with high value NBA games, we are watching the GS Warriors sweep team after team 4-0 in blowouts. No nailbiters, no narrative to push, no drama, just a complete massacre by Steph Curry and friends to crush everyone.

The networks say, we want a return on our investment, we aren't getting it. All this potential revenue is LOST.

The local sponsors also feel the hit. Every extra playoff game means massive revenue to the host city, the surrounding businesses and the city in general. The local political structure wants to know, all the breaks we cut you, all the extras, all our support and our contacts and networking, where is the return on our investment?

Why do NBA games take a half hour to play the last 3-4 minutes of clock in a tick tack foul-a-thon. Because if games were only two hours, the valuation of commercial time would change. The valuation of time to sell more concessions, jerseys, stuffed Melo dolls, etc, takes a hit. Local bars don't pour as much beers. Sports themed places don't sell as many nachos.

The networks block out three hours for a game, they WANT THREE HOURS WORTH OF VALUE.

79 out of 105 total potential playoff games were played last offseason.

If the difference in sending Porter and/or Doncic to anyone but the Knicks means they get to 92 out of 105 ( basically getting half of what they lost the year before), do you think the NBA does it? Not just for the immediate revenue, but also to protect that TV contract and all future TV contracts?

You do have a point though. The Knicks are self inflicted stupid. The league did help the Celtics by gifting them the first pick, but to be in that position, Boston had to help itself first. Good signings, careful trades, good resource management. So yes, if the Knicks do better and make better moves, the league will see more incentive to give it that once last piece or last few pieces to push it over the top to get the right "league narrative"

If the NBA could get another half billion in a big TV contract, they'd murder an entire preschool if they had to do it. They'd kill every last child of every last member of UK here. They'd burn them alive like Shireen in Game of Thrones. Every major pro sport has it's own security element. We are talking, not just retired law enforcement and retired gurus from the civil legal system, but mercenaries, former military, contractors, information brokers. A private army. You think when MLB put it's foothold into Latin America and baseball there that there was no bloodshed? It could be basketball, it could be women's makeup, it could be Post It notes, put enough money into something and people are gonna get clipped. If they are willing to cut your childrens throats in front of you for a few nickels in your pocket, you think they are going to hesitate to rig a machine go spit out one ping pong ball over another?

Look, if you don't think it's all rigged, you don't, I respect that, I respect your viewpoint and right to it.

And I think you bring up a good point, the Knicks have to help themselves here as well.

My take? Put yourself in a position where the marketing and "narrative" determines it's in the best interest of the NBA to cheat for you.

its not rigged. How much transparency do you need?

Also if you consider the downside of rigging it there is no logic there whatsoever. None. Can imagine the legal fall out that would occur if anything was ever proven? Is Silver pushing for lottery reform because its rigged? I mean just ask the most basic questions and the rigged conspiracy is laughable.

fishmike - Making UltimateKnicks great again
Nalod
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9/13/2017  1:59 PM
I don't have time to break this down:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_Finals_television_ratings

2016 finals did go 7 games.......Ebb and flow?
Seems NFL got hurt by election cycle last year, maybe NBA has been effected by constant intense news cycle too?
Maybe its all peaked.
NASCAR looked like it was taking over the world but now declining. Boxing, nobody cares. This other form is more hype than substance. Rhonda Rousey? Things change.
Baseball has declining demographic.
NBA globally is still on the upswing.

I get where your coming from but not sure the draft is part of the conspiracy. Nor can I see Ref's killing games to support ratings.
Can't call me Naive because there is no proof to back up the theory. Ref's might throw games on their own, but a league wide coordinated effort?
I can see the fans attraction to the conspiracy, but im not on board.

Anger sells, don't buy!
Uptown
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9/13/2017  2:27 PM    LAST EDITED: 9/13/2017  2:29 PM
I'm taking Bagley and Porter ahead of Doncic....Especially Bagley who will give us the frontline athletic defender that we need.
Welpee
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9/13/2017  3:25 PM
fishmike wrote:
TripleThreat wrote:
Nalod wrote:Right, conspiracy works to hurt the team in the biggest market and that helps the league?
Why would the NBA do that?

The mess the knicks created was done so mostly with their own stupidity!


What is the biggest cash cow for the NBA?

The massive TV contracts they get. We are talking BILLIONS. Those networks only VALUE those NBA games to be broadcast because of the ratings they get, which means they can charge for commercial time to corporations and brands and sponsors. If the NBA consistently only has less than 80 percent of it's total potential playoff games happening, what do you think happens?

The networks say, we are spending BILLIONS. And instead of filling in critical blocks of air time with high value NBA games, we are watching the GS Warriors sweep team after team 4-0 in blowouts. No nailbiters, no narrative to push, no drama, just a complete massacre by Steph Curry and friends to crush everyone.

The networks say, we want a return on our investment, we aren't getting it. All this potential revenue is LOST.

The local sponsors also feel the hit. Every extra playoff game means massive revenue to the host city, the surrounding businesses and the city in general. The local political structure wants to know, all the breaks we cut you, all the extras, all our support and our contacts and networking, where is the return on our investment?

Why do NBA games take a half hour to play the last 3-4 minutes of clock in a tick tack foul-a-thon. Because if games were only two hours, the valuation of commercial time would change. The valuation of time to sell more concessions, jerseys, stuffed Melo dolls, etc, takes a hit. Local bars don't pour as much beers. Sports themed places don't sell as many nachos.

The networks block out three hours for a game, they WANT THREE HOURS WORTH OF VALUE.

79 out of 105 total potential playoff games were played last offseason.

If the difference in sending Porter and/or Doncic to anyone but the Knicks means they get to 92 out of 105 ( basically getting half of what they lost the year before), do you think the NBA does it? Not just for the immediate revenue, but also to protect that TV contract and all future TV contracts?

You do have a point though. The Knicks are self inflicted stupid. The league did help the Celtics by gifting them the first pick, but to be in that position, Boston had to help itself first. Good signings, careful trades, good resource management. So yes, if the Knicks do better and make better moves, the league will see more incentive to give it that once last piece or last few pieces to push it over the top to get the right "league narrative"

If the NBA could get another half billion in a big TV contract, they'd murder an entire preschool if they had to do it. They'd kill every last child of every last member of UK here. They'd burn them alive like Shireen in Game of Thrones. Every major pro sport has it's own security element. We are talking, not just retired law enforcement and retired gurus from the civil legal system, but mercenaries, former military, contractors, information brokers. A private army. You think when MLB put it's foothold into Latin America and baseball there that there was no bloodshed? It could be basketball, it could be women's makeup, it could be Post It notes, put enough money into something and people are gonna get clipped. If they are willing to cut your childrens throats in front of you for a few nickels in your pocket, you think they are going to hesitate to rig a machine go spit out one ping pong ball over another?

Look, if you don't think it's all rigged, you don't, I respect that, I respect your viewpoint and right to it.

And I think you bring up a good point, the Knicks have to help themselves here as well.

My take? Put yourself in a position where the marketing and "narrative" determines it's in the best interest of the NBA to cheat for you.

its not rigged. How much transparency do you need?

Also if you consider the downside of rigging it there is no logic there whatsoever. None. Can imagine the legal fall out that would occur if anything was ever proven? Is Silver pushing for lottery reform because its rigged? I mean just ask the most basic questions and the rigged conspiracy is laughable.

It may not be rigged, but there have been some awfully "interesting" coincidences.
We need to draft Doncic

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